M50 toll location

filbert the fox

I'm sure the Government and the state agencies would, when asked about equality and fairness respond that they're all in favour of such a philosophy.

Well after what must be 25 years of paying tolls on the northside of the Liffey Valley on the M50, I contend that it's time to move the gantries to south of the on-ramp for the M4. (in the interest of fairness and justice don't you know).

I travel from the northside of Dublin to the Midlands and Galway and for that privilege one can incur 3 tolls. This includes the outrageous €2.90 on the M4 and the sum total for a return journey of approx.€14.

One way of reducing this and in the interest of fairness would for the next 25 years locate the gantries on the Southside.

endacl

The argument, of course, is that historically the toll was for the bridge, not the motorway...

Vicxas

endacl wrote: »

The argument, of course, is that historically the toll was for the bridge, not the motorway...

Thats what I've been told for years.

Jesus.

endacl wrote: »

The argument, of course, is that historically the toll was for the bridge, not the motorway...

Still, it was located on the north side of the bridge

ba_barabus

Jesus. wrote: »

Still, it was located on the north side of the bridge

It used to be on the bridge itself for fairness

MarkAnthony

Put an extra one on the South side and half the toll?

Speedwell

I drove to Dublin for the very first time on the 14th in the driving rain. I got lost and took the wrong exit, figured it out within a couple miles, turned around and went back and went on my way. I knew I was on a toll road, but there were no tollbooths to pay. I didn't see any signs explaining what I needed to do. Monday I received a letter asking for the tolls and extra fees... I had incurred one going and coming, eight minutes apart. When I called to ask WTF, the snippy clerk told me that they could forgive the extra fees "this time but we won't do it again". Well, OK, then, fine, I can't think of anything I need so badly on that side of Dublin that I need to pay more than six euro for the privilege of using the motorway to get there. In fact I am fed up with the "only in Dublin" mentality altogether.

mikeecho

Speedwell wrote: »

I drove to Dublin for the very first time on the 14th in the driving rain. I got lost and took the wrong exit, figured it out within a couple miles, turned around and went back and went on my way. I knew I was on a toll road, but there were no tollbooths to pay. I didn't see any signs explaining what I needed to do. Monday I received a letter asking for the tolls and extra fees... I had incurred one going and coming, eight minutes apart. When I called to ask WTF, the snippy clerk told me that they could forgive the extra fees "this time but we won't do it again". Well, OK, then, fine, I can't think of anything I need so badly on that side of Dublin that I need to pay more than six euro for the privilege of using the motorway to get there. In fact I am fed up with the "only in Dublin" mentality altogether.

How on earth did you miss the signs.

Speedwell

mikeecho wrote: »

How on earth did you miss the signs.

I saw the signs. I didn't see any place to pay. It was pouring rain and I had never been on the road before, so I didn't think it was the time to stop and catch up on my light reading. Besides, I had seen a similar sign earlier on where there were both tollbooths and a place for cars to drive through. Never been to Dublin before; in fact it was the first time I had ever driven on a toll road in Ireland before. I wonder how much revenue they get from these "fees and penalties" added to the original tolls.

coylemj

They should move that toll gantry down to the M6 somewhere between Moate and Kilbeggan. Them fecking culchees have been dodging that toll by sneaking off the M50 at the M4 exit for years, it's time they paid their fair share.

Cabaal

Speedwell wrote: »

I saw the signs. I didn't see any place to pay. It was pouring rain and I had never been on the road before, so I didn't think it was the time to stop and catch up on my light reading. Besides, I had seen a similar sign earlier on where there were both tollbooths and a place for cars to drive through. Never been to Dublin before; in fact it was the first time I had ever driven on a toll road in Ireland before. I wonder how much revenue they get from these "fees and penalties" added to the original tolls.

You pay over the phones, online, shops
Its barrier free tolling.

Speedwell

Cabaal wrote: »

You pay over the phones, online, shops
Its barrier free tolling.

Well, I know that now.

savagethegoat

well it's what the signs say basically.

shietpilot

I've been getting off before the toll on the N4 exit for a few years dodging the toll costs. Not worth paying it to save 10-15 minutes :pac:

Caliden

Speedwell wrote: »

I saw the signs. I didn't see any place to pay. It was pouring rain and I had never been on the road before, so I didn't think it was the time to stop and catch up on my light reading. Besides, I had seen a similar sign earlier on where there were both tollbooths and a place for cars to drive through. Never been to Dublin before; in fact it was the first time I had ever driven on a toll road in Ireland before. I wonder how much revenue they get from these "fees and penalties" added to the original tolls.

You saw them but did you actually read them? There must be at least 3 gantries and 3-4 signs explaining it...

You must not have been concentrating on the road that much

Dial Hard

shietpilot wrote: »

I've been getting off before the toll on the N4 exit for a few years dodging the toll costs. Not worth paying it to save 10-15 minutes :pac:

That depends on how highly (or otherwise) you value your time...

shietpilot

Dial Hard wrote: »

That depends on how highly (or otherwise) you value your time...

Much more fun to take a blast through some nice almost backroad style roads and hop back on after the N3 exit

Speedwell

Caliden wrote: »

You saw them but did you actually read them? There must be at least 3 gantries and 3-4 signs explaining it...

You must not have been concentrating on the road that much

Trying not to slide off the road, actually, given the weather at the time. I was headed for an important certification test that would have cost me 200 dollars (yes, they charge USD) if I was late. I thought the signs referred to something you signed up for in advance, and was looking for the tollbooths. Which weren't there. I'd never heard of the system you describe until I got the letter. You know, not everyone in the fricking world is from Dublin. Jesus, you're worse than New York City.

There is definitely a lot of presumed knowledge surrounding the toll. The signs are great and all, but you're flying past them at 100km/h, and trying to avoid smashing into another car. It's easy to know you've went through a toll, it's also easy to not know where to pay, and to completely forget about it a few mins later when real life comes back into play.


I'd be in favour of putting another toll on it more southerly, and halving the fees. I don't live in dublin, but it does seem like a bit of a random lottery as to where you're living, wether you'll be getting shafted or not. And you can't start pushing traffic back into the city either. Far too messy.

The only problem is this: Any change, and I mean any change, will result in it costing more. If they put another toll at the bottom and half the prices, then the prices won't be halved, they'll be €2.50 each or something. It'll cost more no matter what they do. They'd never, ever miss an opportunity to bend you over and lube you up.

And then the problem would be that if you wanted to circumvent the whole city/use the entire m50, the traffic inthe port tunnel would increase hugely.


Surely whatever bridge was being paid for must have been paid for by now?! Why not just scrap the toll? (i know it's making a lot of money, so it'll never be scrapped under any circumstances, but theoretically, if the bridge was paid for, why shouldn't the toll be gone?!)

Cordell

There is definitely a lot of presumed knowledge surrounding the toll

No, there isn't. Some years ago I arrived in Ireland to take away the jobs, first time in my life driving on the wrong side of the road on a hired car, and still I was able to figure it out that I need to go on eflow.ie to pay, by 8pm tomorrow.

Why not just scrap the toll?

Toll roads used mostly by commuters going to/from work to make money to pay taxes are indeed unfair. In my case I avoid Limerick tunnel, it only saves me 10 minutes a day and it was supposed to remove traffic from the city centre, so it should be free. They've made it free for a short while but only for HGVs, I suppose it was an experiment, but I don't know how this worked out for the tax man and for the city.

TallGlass

savagethegoat wrote: »

well it's what the signs say basically.

Wait. Hold on, are you allowed advertise on motorway signs like that? Payzone logos and all sorts.

shietpilot

TallGlass wrote: »

Wait. Hold on, are you allowed advertise on motorway signs like that? Payzone logos and all sorts.

Technically it's not on the motorway

savagethegoat

to be fair, the toll should be a small amount charged at every entry point, or at half a dozen points around the (part) circuit

ThisRegard

Best solution is for more gantries the length of the motorway and charge per distance, not to exceed the current toll.

shietpilot

ThisRegard wrote: »

Best solution is for more gantries the length of the motorway and charge per distance, not to exceed the current toll.

Good luck with that. It will cost lots of money to set it up and in the end they will make less money.

Jesus.

Speedwell wrote: »

I drove to Dublin for the very first time.

May I ask how old you are Sir?

mikeecho

ThisRegard wrote: »

Best solution is for more gantries the length of the motorway and charge per distance, not to exceed the current toll.

Some people can't manage a single toll point.

They would have a metal breakdown if there were multiple toll points.

Ie.
I took the wrong exit ramp, then rejoined.
Do I have to pay twice.


While we're at it, do away with green diesel, have a rebate system, and I'll fill up an extra tank for my home heating .

Jesus.

Cordell wrote: »

Toll roads used mostly by commuters going to/from work to make money to pay taxes are indeed unfair.

Pay Taxes? Are they not going into private coffers?

Fiskar

can you not see his handle, he was probably "Speeding " past the sign in total admiration of the quality roads in Dublin.

mikeecho

Fiskar wrote: »

can you not see his handle, he was probably "Speeding " past the sign in total admiration of the quality roads in Dublin.

Was in donegal last year.

The quality of main roads puts every other county council to shame.


Maybe the OP should go to donegal and enjoy the toll free roads there.

Del2005

savagethegoat wrote: »

to be fair, the toll should be a small amount charged at every entry point, or at half a dozen points around the (part) circuit

There should be no tolls on orbital roads. Putting more tolls on the safest road in Dublin would encourage motorists back onto suburban roads or back into the city centre where we really don't want traffic.

markpb

TallGlass wrote:

Wait. Hold on, are you allowed advertise on motorway signs like that? Payzone logos and all sorts.

TII say that no one else is allowed to advertise on the motorway but they don't have to follow their own rules, especially when it comes to collecting tolls.

I guess the idea is that people who don't have time to read the gantries and signs will see the Payzone logo and go to their nearest shop to ask how they might pay the toll. Not that it worked in this case.

mgbgt1978

Speedwell wrote: »

Trying not to slide off the road, actually, given the weather at the time. I was headed for an important certification test that would have cost me 200 dollars (yes, they charge USD) if I was late. I thought the signs referred to something you signed up for in advance, and was looking for the tollbooths. Which weren't there. I'd never heard of the system you describe until I got the letter. You know, not everyone in the fricking world is from Dublin. Jesus, you're worse than New York City.

I'm dying to know what New York did to you ?????

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

There should be no tolls on orbital roads. Putting more tolls on the safest road in Dublin would encourage motorists back onto suburban roads or back into the city centre where we really don't want traffic.

That's true.
In most places, even where most motorways are tolled, usually city orbitals / bypasses are free for that very reason.

Dublin with its M50 toll, and London with its M25 toll are fairly unique.

Atlantic Dawn

If only Fianna Fail Environment Minister Padraig Flynn and Dublin assistant city and county manager George Redmond were still in power :pac:

Labour transport spokesman Tommy Broughan said the deal signed with NTR in 1987 was a "grotesque rip-off of the State".

He added: "I really think it should be investigated again how that contract came about."

At the Public Accounts committee in December, Mr Broughan questioned whether the contract, which was signed by former Fianna Fail Environment Minister Padraig Flynn and former Dublin assistant city and county manager George Redmond, was a result of a "grotesquely incompetent or corrupt agreement".

The Flood Tribunal has heard evidence that Mr Flynn was given a political donation of £8,000 in 1992 by NTR.

It also heard evidence that former NTR head Tom Roche Snr gave a IR£10,000 donation to Mr Redmond for his help in acquiring land to build the toll bridge on.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-firm-to-reap-115bn-bonanza-from-m50-toll-deal-26628381.html

Guy:Incognito

Dial Hard wrote: »

That depends on how highly (or otherwise) you value your time...

and your fuel that you pay for........

ironclaw

Del2005 wrote: »

There should be no tolls on orbital roads. Putting more tolls on the safest road in Dublin would encourage motorists back onto suburban roads or back into the city centre where we really don't want traffic.

This!

The toll on the M50 is an utter money grab. I'd have zero issue paying to get into Dublin City (Say for arguments sake inside the South or North Circular Rds) but if I'm orbiting at an eco friendly constant speed, I shouldn't be paying for the privilege of it. Likewise, incremental tolls on the M50 will just force people back into the city and other routes. People drive around to save a cent or two on petrol, could you imagine they were tolled the entire length of the M50? :eek:

Also, I don't follow the thought of moving the toll onto the south side. If you want to transit from North to South, you pay for it. I don't see what side of the bridge has to do with it, you don't have any extra gain from where you start e.g. If you pass the N4 or pass Blanchardstown, you pay. You don't gain anything in either direction

quadrifoglio verde

ironclaw wrote: »

This!

The toll on the M50 is an utter money grab. I'd have zero issue paying to get into Dublin City (Say for arguments sake inside the South or North Circular Rds) but if I'm orbiting at an eco friendly constant speed, I shouldn't be paying for the privilege of it. Likewise, incremental tolls on the M50 will just force people back into the city and other routes. People drive around to save a cent or two on petrol, could you imagine they were tolled the entire length of the M50? :eek:

Also, I don't follow the thought of moving the toll onto the south side. If you want to transit from North to South, you pay for it. I don't see what side of the bridge has to do with it, you don't have any extra gain from where you start e.g. If you pass the N4 or pass Blanchardstown, you pay. You don't gain anything in either direction

Well if you've to go from Lucan to ballymun you've to pay the toll. If you have to go from Lucan to bray, you don't have to pay any toll.

It would make much more sense from an equitable for the people point of view to have the toll at the m1/m50 junction, n4/n7 and m50/m11
The more you use the more you pay. Max toll no more than what it's current rate.

Now don't get me wrong I'd love to see it come from motor tax, but there's two hopes for that, Bob Hope and no hope!

_Kaiser_

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and your fuel that you pay for........

That's true... taking a 15 minute detour would likely eat up any savings you'd make on the toll in extra fuel costs.

marno21

The M50 toll is a complete and utter joke. The shady surroundings of the origins of the toll are one thing, and of course the obscene money it cost to bring the Westlink into public ownership. NTR made an absolute fortune off of it.

There should be no toll on any of the orbital routes in Ireland. No toll would take further traffic out of ethe city centres making them safer, and less congested. The M50 toll also has no clear alternative route.

CiniO

marno21 wrote: »

The M50 toll also has no clear alternative route.

I often drive from M4, towards the city, by Heuston station I take left, and then through Phoenix Park, which I exit on the other side, and to N3 to join M50 again after the toll.

_Kaiser_

CiniO wrote: »

I often drive from M4, towards the city, by Heuston station I take left, and then through Phoenix Park, which I exit on the other side, and to N3 to join M50 again after the toll.

Which is a good 20-30 minutes in city traffic.. how much extra in fuel does that cost.

I don't like it myself but my time is worth more than that

Stheno

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Which is a good 20-30 minutes in city traffic.. how much extra in fuel does that cost.

I don't like it myself but my time is worth more than that

Closer to an hour in rush hour tbh.

marno21

To me the timesaving is definately worth €2.10

CiniO

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Which is a good 20-30 minutes in city traffic.. how much extra in fuel does that cost.

I don't like it myself but my time is worth more than that

Well, usually need to get to M50 north only when I go to the airport, which is usually around 10 times a year.
When I'm early and have time to spare, I'd usually go through the city route I described.

It indeed takes this 20-30 minutes extra, but as I'm early it doesn't matter.
It takes more fuel as well, but I prefer to spend money on fuel than on toll.

In the end I do contribute to creating traffic jams in the city by driving through there, but well - if M50 was free I wouldn't.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

CiniO wrote: »

In the end I do contribute to creating traffic jams in the city by driving through there, but well - if M50 was free I wouldn't.

This part is very important i think

They built the m50 and completed around the city to take the traffic away from the city

It does a good job at it so they decide to charge people to use it !

Its a joke at this stage. Similar with east link, something that should now be free but the wonderful government we have and all that.

_Kaiser_

CiniO wrote: »

Well, usually need to get to M50 north only when I go to the airport, which is usually around 10 times a year.
When I'm early and have time to spare, I'd usually go through the city route I described.

It indeed takes this 20-30 minutes extra, but as I'm early it doesn't matter.
It takes more fuel as well, but I prefer to spend money on fuel than on toll.

In the end I do contribute to creating traffic jams in the city by driving through there, but well - if M50 was free I wouldn't.

This just doesn't make sense to me...

It takes longer (significantly longer in rush hour as pointed out), costs more, and adds to congestion and presumably your own stress levels.

Why??

CiniO

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This just doesn't make sense to me...

It takes longer (significantly longer in rush hour as pointed out), costs more, and adds to congestion and presumably your own stress levels.

Why??

It takes longer but not that much longer. Maybe I just didn't hit the rush hours yet.
Costs about the same - I save on M50 toll, spend it on extra fuel.
I don't stress for driving in city or traffic jams.
If I'm early for the airport, I actually prefer to go there and take bit more time, instead of just waiting on the airport.

Maybe it's just me who doesn't have to pay for things I can avoid paying like M50...


I'm sure though there's more people like that, and we all contribute to traffic in the city, which we wouldn't if there wasn't a toll on M50.

wonski

CiniO wrote: »

It takes longer but not that much longer. Maybe I just didn't hit the rush hours yet.
Costs about the same - I save on M50 toll, spend it on extra fuel.
I don't stress for driving in city or traffic jams.
If I'm early for the airport, I actually prefer to go there and take bit more time, instead of just waiting on the airport.

Maybe it's just me who doesn't have to pay for things I can avoid paying like M50...


I'm sure though there's more people like that, and we all contribute to traffic in the city, which we wouldn't if there wasn't a toll on M50.

Makes no sense to me tbh.

There is no money saved, no time saved.

Makes no sense...

CiniO

wonski wrote: »

Makes no sense to me tbh.

There is no money saved, no time saved.

Makes no sense...

So maybe I'm the only one doing that, in which case indeed M50 toll doesn't contribute much to city traffic.

wonski

CiniO wrote: »

So maybe I'm the only one doing that, in which case indeed M50 toll doesn't contribute much to city traffic.

Sure. Imagine there is no M50 and enjoy the view.

Or go back in time and pay your toll at the booth.

Seriously, you might not be the "only one", but you are missing the point.