Help, found stray, dog warden says we're breaking the law by keeping her

sweetsugar

2 weeks ago, found a stray dog tied to a pole, she was very dirty and wet and l brought her home. Put ads on Facebook, ispca etc and also in the local shops. Took her to the vet to be scan, is chipped but not registered. Notify the gardai and county council. All were fine about us holding onto the dog until if found.
I have been checking on website for lost dogs and have got in contact with owners of missing dogs but no one has claimed the dog yet.
We are thinking of keeping her as she has settled down well with us if no one claims her after the month.

Today got a phone from a dog warden and he said that we couldn't keep her, should be kept at his pound for 5 days before he decide what to do with her, we should have notify him and that we were breaking the law. We tried to explain to him that we did notify the gardai and county council, ispca etc.
We know him and for personal reason we didn't notify him (not going to say why) only to say he's not a nice person

I thought we did everything right.
Now according to him, we must contact the county council, give them the chip no and take the dog back to him to which l know he will put the dog down after 5 days if no owner is found
We don't want this so l should contact an animal home instead and they take the dog to be rehome. Can l do that as he saying we have to take the dog to him or we're breaking the law.

Stheno

You have to notify the dog warden, tell them tomorrow, keep the dog five days and you are done.

doolox

The "warden" sounds like right see you next tuesday.... the dog to trusted friend/cousin/relation in another county and ride this situation out.

If you are willing to house, feed and look after the dog and you have no prior record of abuse neglect or anti social situations regarding dogs or other significant animals then I cannot see what the problem is.

I have a rescue dog about 7 yrs old that my wife and daughters obtained and adore and initially I found him a pain in the .....nat king Cole but have grown fond of him....I certainly would not want him "put down" = killed.

I would find it abhorrent that anyone would want to kill any dog except a proven vicious one,,,which are very rare.

DBB

You are legally obliged to notify the dog warden or The Gardaí in writing..

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/section/13/enacted/en/html#sec13

If you surrender the dog to the pound, you can potentially adopt the dog back after 5 days with no comeback from the owner.
If you decide to keep her without surrendering her to the pound, and remembering that you must notify the above, then she will not become your legal "property" until 366 days from the date of notifying the Gardaí or dog warden.
If you decide to keep her without surrendering her, and the owners show up within that 366 days, you are obliged to give them the dog back.
If the dog is still in your possession after 28 days following the notification to the warden or Gardaí, you are obliged to buy a dog license for him.
Not sure where you stand with the microchipping end of things... Strictly speaking the dog's chip shouldn't be registered to you until all of the above has happened, but as it's new legislation I'm.not as familiar with the nuts and bolts of it just yet.

So, the warden appears to be stretching the truth somewhat. And some extra info that you needed be aware of in this situation.

sweetsugar

We have no problem looking after this dog as she is a very pleasant quiet dog and gets on well with the other 2 dogs but the warden is insisting that we take the dog to him. l ring will ring the county council and l will explain even though l did report them about it already.
l think the warden is acting like that because he has an personal issue with us, (nothing to do with the dog), that's why we didn't notify him about the dog.

frillyleaf

Could you contact the <snip> or another non kill animal shelter and explain the situation? I would try surrender the dog to an animal shelter as opposed to a pound if at all possible? You'll have to look into the legality of this. Maybe you could adopt it from them and ensure it gets adequate veterinary care during the process😊

I find it astonishing that the council - that have such a huge problem with resources and costs associated with neglected animals - have a member of staff behaving like this. I understand that regulations are in place but this warden sounds like a nasty piece of work😨

I would be anxious that you may not get info from him about the animal if he takes it....I would contact an animal charity and ask for advise. They may be able to help or at least tell you what you should do here.

Is there a reason that he does not want you to keep this dog? Eg is it viscous or do you have history of not caring for animals properly?

I hope this works out. Best of luck

DBB

Stheno wrote: »

You have to notify the dog warden, tell them tomorrow, keep the dog five days and you are done.

Most wardens won't do this any more. It used to be that they'd let a dog do its 5 days with a trusted rescue or fosterer, but it was an informal arrangement.
In the vast majority of cases, the dog has to physically do the 5 days in the pound.
There is some potential for wriggle room, as the legislation allows for a Guard to enter the dog into the logbook so that the finder can keep the dog after 5 days (cf my link above) but I'm pretty sure that guards simply don't involve themselves with matters dog any more... They'll just direct you back to the warden. However, perhaps if you know a superintendent really well, you might just be able to get buttons pressed that the legislation does give scope for.

sweetsugar

Thanks about the info
We did notify the gardai and the county council( head office for the dog pound)
They were fine about it
It just l think the warden has an issue with us (from ages ago)

foggy_lad

sweetsugar wrote: »

We have no problem looking after this dog as she is a very pleasant quiet dog and gets on well with the other 2 dogs but the warden is insisting that we take the dog to him. l ring will ring the county council and l will explain even though l did report them about it already.
l think the warden is acting like that because he has an personal issue with us, (nothing to do with the dog), that's why we didn't notify him about the dog.

Write to the Garda station nearest to where you found the dog and notify them that you found the dog. give them the description of the dog and where exactly it was found and the time and date. give them your contact details adn any information from the microchip including the number and tell them you will keep the dog for a year to see if anyone comes forward to claim it.

You do not have to hand the dog over to a dog warden at all.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/section/13/enacted/en/html#sec13

13.—(1) Any person, other than a dog warden or a member of the Garda Síochána, who finds and takes possession of a stray dog shall, forthwith—


(a) return the dog to its owner, or


(b) deliver the dog to a dog warden, or


(c) detain the dog and give notice in writing containing a description of the dog, the address of the place where it was found, and the address of the place where it is detained to the member in charge at the nearest Garda Station to the place where the dog was found, or to a dog warden.

After having the dog for 28 days you are required to purchase a license for the dog.

frillyleaf

sweetsugar wrote: »

Thanks about the info
We did notify the gardai and the county council( head office for the dog pound)
They were fine about it
It just l think the warden has an issue with us (from ages ago)

Why don't you contact a charity and explain the situation. You may be able to surrender the dog to them and adopt it back of noone comes forward as the owner. This sounds unlikely if it was tied to a pole

The warden sounds like he is being difficult. I hope this works out well, it's very kind of you to take her in

DBB

sweetsugar wrote: »

We have no problem looking after this dog as she is a very pleasant quiet dog and gets on well with the other 2 dogs but the warden is insisting that we take the dog to him. l ring will ring the county council and l will explain even though l did report them about it already.
l think the warden is acting like that because he has an personal issue with us, (nothing to do with the dog), that's why we didn't notify him about the dog.

You have to report it in writing.
Make certain that you mention, in your letter/email, that you are familiar with your duties under Section 13 of the Control of Dogs Act 1986... That's the one I linked to above. The warden is, for some reason, trying to fudge the legal lines with you.

foggy_lad

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why don't you contact a charity and explain the situation. You may be able to surrender the dog to them and adopt it back of noone comes forward as the owner. This sounds unlikely if it was tied to a pole

The warden sounds like he is being difficult. I hope this works out well, it's very kind of you to take her in

There is no obligation to surrender the dog to anyone including the dog warden!

DBB

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is no obligation to surrender the dog to anyone including the dog warden!

It's unlikely a rescue will take in a dog knowing the circumstances. They're just as subject to the legislation as anyone else is!
They certainly can't rehome the dog legally without the owner's consent. There have been instances where rescues have rehomed a foundling without having gone through the correct processes, and been forced to take the dog back from the adopters when the legal owners finally showed up. In one case, the dogs had been sent to the UK, and had to be shipped back.

The Sidewards Man

DBB wrote: »

It's unlikely a rescue will take in a dog knowing the circumstances. They're just as subject to the legislation as anyone else is!
They certainly can't rehome the dog legally without the owner's consent. There have been instances where rescues have rehomed a foundling without having gone through the correct processes, and been forced to take the dog back from the adopters when the legal owners finally showed up. In one case, the dogs had been sent to the UK, and had to be shipped back.

Have you links to back up your post?

Cherry Blossom

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Have you links to back up your post?

Given the fact that that particular poster runs a rescue herself I'd say it's a pretty safe bet she knows what she's talking about.

What links could provide proof that are not from rescue websites which are not permitted here? There is nothing in the legislation which exempts rescues, where are your links that prove there is?

DBB

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Have you links to back up your post?

No? They weren't in the media. Believe me, these things tend to be kept out of the media spotlight... Not that the media is particularly interested.
I run a rescue, and have many close personal links in the *industry*, some of whom had to return dogs to rightful owners, including one who had quickly shipped two dogs off to the UK... In fact, in that case the wardens had allowed the rescue to take the two dogs from the pound before their 5 days were up, as alluded to in earlier posts. Needless to say, the sh!t hit the fan when the owners turned up. This was one of the turning points when pounds ceased that informal arrangement they had with some rescues. It was all very well until it was abused.

Clampdown

If you don't want to hand the dog over to this pr!ck of a dog warden, then don't. What's he going to do? He can't come into your house and take it off you. As long as you have licenses for your other dogs that's all he can check and you can leave them in your front window for him to see so you don't have to open the door.

One that was in my area was an absolute power tripping jerk as well, but in reality they can't do anything other than hand out a fine for not having a license.

Ms Doubtfire1

Stheno wrote: »

You have to notify the dog warden, tell them tomorrow, keep the dog five days and you are done.

incorrect.if you have notified the gardai they have to notify the warden.which area are you in and what breed is the dog?

Ms Doubtfire1

DBB wrote: »

It's unlikely a rescue will take in a dog knowing the circumstances. They're just as subject to the legislation as anyone else is!
They certainly can't rehome the dog legally without the owner's consent. There have been instances where rescues have rehomed a foundling without having gone through the correct processes, and been forced to take the dog back from the adopters when the legal owners finally showed up. In one case, the dogs had been sent to the UK, and had to be shipped back.

thats an odd one. as far as I know if a dog has been in the hands of any official organisation for 5 days, the owner looses rights? how dog the pounds otherwise get away with killing them after 5 days of waiting?

intheclouds

Ring the warden back and say the dog has run off.

Keep the dog.

DBB

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

thats an odd one. as far as I know if a dog has been in the hands of any official organisation for 5 days, the owner looses rights? how dog the pounds otherwise get away with killing them after 5 days of waiting?

The dog must have been in the hands of the county pound or the Gardaí for 5 days... That's it. No other organisation is proscribed by law to do so. The reality is that in most cases, the Gardaí bump the dog over to the dog pound.
You may be getting mixed up between county pounds and my references to rescues. Rescues have no more rights and are just as subject to the legislation as any owner is. Rescues have no jurisdiction over the dog legislation (unless they happen to concurrently run the county pound, as is the casework some SPCAs).
So, if a found dog is handed into a rescue, it either has to do its 5 days in the pound, or the rescue *shouldn't* rehome it until 366 days have elapsed after reporting it.
I hope that clears it up a bit for you

crazygeryy

we found a dog last year i came on boards and advertised it here,facebook and twitter etc.no one came and claimed her.she is still with us and a wonderful addition to the family.
does this mean i broke the law?

Ms Doubtfire1

crazygeryy wrote: »

we found a dog last year i came on boards and advertised it here,facebook and twitter etc.no one came and claimed her.she is still with us and a wonderful addition to the family.
does this mean i broke the law?

by the sound of things yes..but I wouldn't worry about it too much at this point in time.my lurcher is the same.just get her microchipped asap

tk123

intheclouds wrote: »

Ring the warden back and say the dog has run off.

Keep the dog.

These responses here are unreal.

How about giving the owners the benefit of doubt - you've no idea if they're looking for the dog or if it was stolen and dumped. Not everyone is on-line with access/knows about FB or lost and found sites. A good friend found out just the other day that her dog's tag wasn't registered like she thought it was.

I used to be of the opinion that a dog found like that had ****ty owners until something happened in my house when I wasn't there that frightened my dogs so much that they both escaped and ran away. One was lost but luckily I always have a collar/harness on them with tags - somebody found her and called me. It's easy to say they shouldn't have gotten out but sometimes these things happen. How many people do you know don't have collars on their dogs when they're at home - nearly everyone I'm friends with on FB don't.

Ms Doubtfire1

tk123 wrote: »

These responses here are unreal.

How about giving the owners the benefit of doubt - you've no idea if they're looking for the dog or if it was stolen and dumped. Not everyone is on-line with access/knows about FB or lost and found sites. A good friend found out just the other day that her dog's tag wasn't registered like she thought it was.

I used to be of the opinion that a dog found like that had ****ty owners until something happened in my house when I wasn't there that frightened my dogs so much that they both escaped and ran away. One was lost but luckily I always have a collar/harness on them with tags - somebody found her and called me. It's easy to say they shouldn't have gotten out but sometimes these things happen. How many people do you know don't have collars on their dogs when they're at home - nearly everyone I'm friends with on FB don't.

ehm...as far as I know we have laws in place now that all dogs are to be micro chipped? so, apparently this dog is not micro chipped? responsible owners? nope.

tk123

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

ehm...as far as I know we have laws in place now that all dogs are to be micro chipped? so, apparently this dog is not micro chipped? responsible owners? nope.

The chip is not registered according to the OP.

Ms Doubtfire1

tk123 wrote: »

The chip is not registered according to the OP.

which is part of the new law....but maybe it's only stupid owners? doesn't matter. microchipping is useless without registration and since they didn't do that, they will be fined if they come forward.given the fact that OP found the dog in a bad state,what are the chances of that you think?

muddypaws

Can I just point out that microchips can move, so just because a microchip isn't found (which isn't the case here) it doesn't actually mean that the dog isn't chipped. A friend is emigrating, sorting out pet passport, and it took their vet - who originally inserted the chip a couple of years ago - a long time to find it. We had a dog come into us, we knew for a fact she was chipped, as she had been with another rescue previously, otherwise we would have given up looking, we found it in her armpit.

Ms Doubtfire1

muddypaws wrote: »

Can I just point out that microchips can move, so just because a microchip isn't found (which isn't the case here) it doesn't actually mean that the dog isn't chipped. A friend is emigrating, sorting out pet passport, and it took their vet - who originally inserted the chip a couple of years ago - a long time to find it. We had a dog come into us, we knew for a fact she was chipped, as she had been with another rescue previously, otherwise we would have given up looking, we found it in her armpit.

I had the with a cat. she was chipped years ago ( I chip all my animals even the goats and cats).when we scanned her recently chip had relocated down to the tail end...

pawrick

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I had the with a cat. she was chipped years ago ( I chip all my animals even the goats and cats).when we scanned her recently chip had relocated down to the tail end...

also seen where a scanner failed to pick up a chip while a second more powerful scanner did. If we hadn't been messing with the scanners we would have though the cat wasn't chipped.

tk123

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

which is part of the new law....but maybe it's only stupid owners? doesn't matter. microchipping is useless without registration and since they didn't do that, they will be fined if they come forward.given the fact that OP found the dog in a bad state,what are the chances of that you think?

As I said my friend found out the other day that her dog wasn't registered like she thought. Her world revolves around the dog so she's far from a stupid or a crappy owner.. Another friend had the same problem when the rescue she got the dog from hadn't registered the dog at all - the was before the new rules came in.

Ms Doubtfire1

sorry i just simply don't buy that. Just because the rescue hasn't registered the dog does not excuse the owner form doing so.the law is very very clear on that.Microchip,register and PRINT certificate of registration. The dog warden here in Waterford has actually been at the door to check if that had been adhered too.

muddypaws

There is of course the chance that this dog has been straying for longer than a few months, so went before the new law came in, could have been stolen. Chipped but not registered, unfortunately that happened with a lot of dogs a while ago, including those adopted from a well known rescue.

DBB

crazygeryy wrote: »

we found a dog last year i came on boards and advertised it here,facebook and twitter etc.no one came and claimed her.she is still with us and a wonderful addition to the family.
does this mean i broke the law?

OK.. Here's a thing, and I'm not getting on your case at all here crazygeryy, just using your situation as an example of where things *could* go horribly wrong. There are thousands of people just like you, and this is really unlikely to happen, but the fact remains that it could...
If you don't report the dog as found to the Guards or the local dog warden, the 366 day rule never kicks in. So legally, the dog never actually belongs to you and the owners would be entitled to reclaim their dog at any time.
Again, the chances of this happening are really, really small, particularly if the dog had no chip/collar etc. But the risk is there, which is why covering yourself by making the call when the dog is initially found just covers you better.

Inexile

If the warden insists on the dog being returned to him you will have to do so but you can ask that after it does its stray time that you wish to adopt the dog. I would put it in writing and ask for confirmation of your request.

Just on a side note not all pounds are chipping at the moment and where does are coming in unchipped they are being released unchipped too. So while we have the law the enforcement is not complete.

DBB

Inexile wrote: »

If the warden insists on the dog being returned to him you will have to do so.

No, they don't. The law provides for the finder to either give the dog to the warden, or report it and keep the dog for 366 days, at which point the dog becomes the finder's property.

Inexile

Sorry DBB you are right but would why wait a year and a dog to get ownership when you can do it in five days.

I know the OP has an issue with the warden but unless there is any reason to not release the dog I cant see why they wouldnt. After all the pounds want their homing stats to look good too

Hollister11

Tell the warden to go **** himself.

The dog is better off with you, in a nice house, in the company of 2 other dogs getting feed everyday until the owner is found, then stuck in a pound more he will more than likely be euthanized if the owner isn't found in a couple of days.

Keep the dog until you find the owner, your doing the right thing.

Ms Doubtfire1

Hollister11 wrote: »

Tell the warden to go **** himself.

The dog is better off with you, in a nice house, in the company of 2 other dogs getting feed everyday until the owner is found, then stuck in a pound more he will more than likely be euthanized if the owner isn't found in a couple of days.

Keep the dog until you find the owner, your doing the right thing.

+1

Ms Doubtfire1

Inexile wrote: »

Sorry DBB you are right but would why wait a year and a dog to get ownership when you can do it in five days.

I know the OP has an issue with the warden but unless there is any reason to not release the dog I cant see why they wouldnt. After all the pounds want their homing stats to look good too

for the simple reason that pounds can kill after 5 days, that there are plenty of 'closed pounds; in ireland where a dog disappears into never to be seen again.
Keep the dog OP, provide written notice to the gardai and *** the dogwarden

DBB

Inexile wrote: »

I know the OP has an issue with the warden but unless there is any reason to not release the dog I cant see why they wouldnt. After all the pounds want their homing stats to look good too

I think the personal difficulties between the op and the warden is what'd clinch it in this case. But generally, unless you've a good relationship with the pound, leaving a dog in that you hope to get back after the 5 days has proven to be a risky strategy, one that is far riskier in some pounds than others.
At this stage too, I think many pounds honestly don't give a hoot about their rehoming stats. Some notable exceptions do and are super. But far too many couldn't care less.

Raminahobbin

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

which is part of the new law....but maybe it's only stupid owners? doesn't matter. microchipping is useless without registration and since they didn't do that, they will be fined if they come forward.given the fact that OP found the dog in a bad state,what are the chances of that you think?

Just on this registration issue- I had a dog who passed recently enough at about 12 years.

I got her microchipped at 2 years old, registered her with Fido. Nobody ever checked her chip until I changed groomers when she was about 9 years old- I never even thought to ask someone to scan her to be honest, just didn't cross my mind.

The new groomers were doing routine checks and found that the chip was unregistered and let me know. I was pretty shocked, and went home to check my documents. I found old emails confirming the registration, but when i logged into the website (with my still existing account) her details were not there. As I was browsing it, I remembered the layout etc and remembered checking the website after registering, and they *definitely* used to have her details where I was now not able to see them.

I phoned them, and was told I must not have registered it and they got me to do it again.

Now, if I had lost her any point during the 7 years she was supposedly registered, I would have been f**ked.

I'm not saying it's the case with all unregistered chips, but apparently errors do happen, and I would love to know if maybe something occurred with this company's database at some stage.

Choc Chip

tk123 wrote: »

As I said my friend found out the other day that her dog wasn't registered like she thought. Her world revolves around the dog so she's far from a stupid or a crappy owner.. Another friend had the same problem when the rescue she got the dog from hadn't registered the dog at all - the was before the new rules came in.

My dog was chipped and registered by a rescue. Got the cert, transferred it into my name and thought very little of it. My vet had a quick check to make sure the chip was there while we were in for something else and all was good.

I was back arranging the dog's passport and the vet happened to double-check the number on her chip against that on her vaccination card (which was the number she was registered under on fido) and it was a completely different number. Not even close.

If she'd got lost and her collar had come off I'd never have found her. Accidents happen and I've heard of lots of registrations going wrong.

sweetsugar

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

incorrect.if you have notified the gardai they have to notify the warden.which area are you in and what breed is the dog?

Well that didn't happened with me when l notify the guards. All they said was they get in touch with me if anyone come looking for the dog. Never said anything about the dog warden. And why do you want to know what area and what breed?

sweetsugar

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

ehm...as far as I know we have laws in place now that all dogs are to be micro chipped? so, apparently this dog is not micro chipped? responsible owners? nope.

Dog is chipped but not registered. Chipped in 2010

sweetsugar

Today l got onto an animal home and l explained my situation. They said everything l have done is correct and since l have reported to the guards about the dog, I can hang on to the dog for a year and a day. If no one claims the dog by the end of it, she becomes our dog. Also after 28 days after being found, l will have to get a dog licence. I don't have to give the dog to the warden. They also said to notify the vet department and to trace the chipped. I have traced the no to irish kennel and waiting for them to reply back.l will keep trying to find her owner as she belongs to someone and that they
are looking for her. She could have been stolen and dumped or just dumped as they didn't want her anymore.

Hollister11

Maybe set up a Facebook page so people can share the word.

There's one her about a missing dog called naz. https://www.facebook.com/bringnazhome/
18K likes, but no success yet.