Donegal and Brexit

alchemist33

I commute across the border every day so I've already taken a pay cut this morning! I expect Sterling will re-assert itself over time but there are other implications for me, such as anything that causes a tailback at the border will be a pain in the backside twice a day.

There are many others for the county as a whole, with cross-border shopping (for groceries in the North and fuel in Donegal) under threat, and the potential for losses in business, healthcare and socially. Isolated up in the corner, Donegal NEEDS as open a border as possible to survive, never mind thrive, IMO.

How do you think this will pan out for us?

Cherry Blossom

My main concern is the fact that the northern counties are the main thoroughfare to and from the capital.

Flibbles

There are so many ways this could pan out that it's pretty much impossible to guess what will actually happen, least of all travel between the countries. There are existing acts (CTA) that are either non-binding, or overruled by EU law, but again it's a guess as to what will eventually happen.

muffler

Have to agree with Flibbles in that its way too early to know or even hazard a guess as to what way things will pan out. But the one thing that we can be sure of is that there will be changes. What those changes will be and how they will affect us on a day to day basis will no doubt become apparent over the coming months, or in the case of this country, could be years as decisions are normally taken after the event.

NIMAN

I honestly think there might not be too many worrying changes.

The Good Friday Agreement might go some way to ensuring we aren't stuck at checkpoints every time we want to cross the border. There's a likelihood there might not be a hard border installed.

Can't see us having to skirt round the outside of NI to get to Dublin.

Truth is, no-one knows. There's a couple years of discussions now to work it all out and it's impossible to say how it will go.

ednwireland

disaster all our trade is with uk/ NI all ready taken a 10% hit with currency drop

echo beach

NIMAN wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement might go some way to ensuring we aren't stuck at checkpoints every time we want to cross the border. There's a likelihood there might not be a hard border installed.

The main driver of the Leave vote was a desire (probably unobtainable) to control immigration, both legal from other EU states and illegal from just about everywhere else. That can't be done if there is an open border with an EU country and by extension the whole population of EU.
I don't foresee any blocks on Irish citizens wanting to travel to or through NI but the only way to prevent others entering the UK is some sort of checks that means delays. An electronic pass and two lanes, one for Irish/UK citizens and one for all others might be a workable solution but if there is free movement from an open border Irish republic to a closed border UK then the UK might as well have open borders resulting in a lot of very disappointed Leave voters.

ednwireland

i can cycle form my house and cross the border several times in 60km am i supposed to carry my passport on the bike

uck51js9zml2yt

Maybe they could redraw the border and have it go between Leitrim and Donegal.:)

NIMAN

Maybe Derry will be moved into Ireland, like it should have been in partition.

Madam

I don't think there will be any physical borders(at least not with border guards and such). I mean what if/when Scotland becomes independent - will there be borders between Scotland and England and if I want to travel to NI then on to Donegal, How many effing borders will I have to cross?;)

Cee-Jay-Cee

echo beach wrote: »

The main driver of the Leave vote was a desire (probably unobtainable) to control immigration, both legal from other EU states and illegal from just about everywhere else. That can't be done if there is an open border with an EU country and by extension the whole population of EU.
I don't foresee any blocks on Irish citizens wanting to travel to or through NI but the only way to prevent others entering the UK is some sort of checks that means delays. An electronic pass and two lanes, one for Irish/UK citizens and one for all others might be a workable solution but if there is free movement from an open border Irish republic to a closed border UK then the UK might as well have open borders resulting in a lot of very disappointed Leave voters.

This is true however I think the uk are going to have to enforce stricter controls on entry points into mainland Britian and not in Northern Ireland where it is much more difficult to do, if not impossible.

I don't honesty see a return to a physical border and there are so many small concession roads that it would be practically impossible to enforce a border. It would be much simpler to up controls on all ports and airports on Mainland Britian.

NIMAN

True.

Increased checks will be seen in Belfast -> England/Scotland/Wales, moreso than from Ireland->NI.

echo beach

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It would be much simpler to up controls on all ports and airports on Mainland Britian.

That will have to be done as well as, not instead of, border control.

NIMAN wrote: »

Increased checks will be seen in Belfast -> England/Scotland/Wales, moreso than from Ireland->NI.

Are you suggesting that there will no longer be free movement from one part of the UK to another part of the UK?

NIMAN

Was there ever free movement from NI to mainland UK?

Because any time I ever did it I had to show identification of some sort.

Personally I think the checks for travel from NI to mainland UK will be beefed up, simply because there is unlikely to be a hard border around NI, and it will be easier for the British to control people getting into the mainland than into NI

byte

I do hope you're right.

mistermouse

I cannot see a passport/id checkpoint scenario at all, that would involve closing smaller roads etc.

I would imagine there will be ports/airport controls between the two islands which with technology will work better in anycase.

What I can see is some form of customs control perhaps spot checks and the like.

Either way there will most likely have to be some form of special arrangment. The EU will see NI/republic as a small problem - the UK will see the republic as a backdoor and will probably implement an Island solution

That is unless the EU wish to be petty and if so I hope they will fund it. There will also be Gibraltar to look at.

Still all a long way off with tensions easing in the coming weeks and months

NIMAN

The problem is, its not like RoI can introduce its own border rules, they have to do what the EU tells them to.

muffler

Heard Teresa Viliers on radio earlier saying she didnt foresee any sort of border control happening. But she is a politician and her words were carefully chosen.

NIMAN

muffler wrote: »

Heard Teresa Viliers on radio earlier saying she didnt foresee any sort of border control happening. But she is a politician and her words were carefully chosen.

She can say that now knowing that she will probably not be NI Secretary when the time comes. Won't be her problem one way or the other.

alchemist33

NIMAN wrote: »

Was there ever free movement from NI to mainland UK?

Because any time I ever did it I had to show identification of some sort.

Personally I think the checks for travel from NI to mainland UK will be beefed up, simply because there is unlikely to be a hard border around NI, and it will be easier for the British to control people getting into the mainland than into NI

This would be simpler in many ways but anathema to the DUP, which would be ironic given they wanted a Leave vote.

At least Sterling is steadying today - unfortunate for people heading north to shop but good for NI folks coming here and spending.

NIMAN

alchemist33 wrote: »

This would be simpler in many ways but anathema to the DUP, which would be ironic given they wanted a Leave vote.

At least Sterling is steadying today - unfortunate for people heading north to shop but good for NI folks coming here and spending.

Other way round surely?

Weak sterling is good for people heading North to shop. And bad for Northerners heading to Eurozone countries.

alchemist33

I mean that is hasn't dropped as much as people were predicting (or that was the case at the open of business. It might be worth Thai Bahts by now the way things are going)

NIMAN

Its dropped 11c between Referendum night and this morning.
Thats about 10% approx, a huge amount in currency terms in a couple of days.

I agree that it will likely settle and find its level, probably around 1.20.

Gazzmonkey

I take that journey from God's Country to Dublin all the time... are we still building them that new motorway? will it be difficult for us to gain access to when it's finished?

My hope is that NI will stay in EU by leaving UK and becoming part of our Country once again.

But back to the topic at hand... I don't believe hard borders are making a come back, but if they do, they wont be British military checkpoints like back in the day... they will be EU border checkpoints. Not sure if that's better or worse.

sassychick91

Norway and Switzerland aren't part of the EU but allow free movement of people - both countries have the largest numbers of European migrants than any other in Europe, because of some agreements they have with the EU. So border control/free movement might not even become an issue if UK goes down the same route as Norway and Switzerland.

NIMAN

To all those who might be cross border workers, like myself, this move could have serious repercussions.

I make an annual tax return to Revenue due to the fact that I was once a landlord and had rental income. Everything was done above board, and I paid my tax annually if I needed to.

Since I sold the property, I have owed Revenue nothing each year in my tax return, and this is how is always thought it would be. Just a token return for administrative purposes.

However I have just met with my accountant, and if Brexit goes ahead as planned my annual tax owed to Revenue would be over €5k. That's a very big hit and I am still suffering shock.

Now many people work in NI and live in donegal or somewhere else I'm southern border counties.

If everyone did things by the book, all cross border workers would make a tax return to Revenue, even though vast majority wouldn't owe any money. But if Brexit comes to pass, will Revenue now go out of their way to track all these people down and get them to pay their dues? They have an agreement with HMRC in the North and UK, so it is possible. It would be easy money for them, and a big burden on many.

It's been a bad week.

Maldesu

NIMAN wrote: »

However I have just met with my accountant, and if Brexit goes ahead as planned my annual tax owed to Revenue would be over €5k. That's a very big hit and I am still suffering shock.

How is he working that out if you don't mind me asking?

alchemist33

NIMAN wrote: »

To all those who might be cross border workers, like myself, this move could have serious repercussions.

I make an annual tax return to Revenue due to the fact that I was once a landlord and had rental income. Everything was done above board, and I paid my tax annually if I needed to.

Since I sold the property, I have owed Revenue nothing each year in my tax return, and this is how is always thought it would be. Just a token return for administrative purposes.

However I have just met with my accountant, and if Brexit goes ahead as planned my annual tax owed to Revenue would be over €5k. That's a very big hit and I am still suffering shock.

Now many people work in NI and live in donegal or somewhere else I'm southern border counties.

If everyone did things by the book, all cross border workers would make a tax return to Revenue, even though vast majority wouldn't owe any money. But if Brexit comes to pass, will Revenue now go out of their way to track all these people down and get them to pay their dues? They have an agreement with HMRC in the North and UK, so it is possible. It would be easy money for them, and a big burden on many.

It's been a bad week.

I make a tax return in the Republic too, about 1-2k euros per year, because my wife works in Donegal and we have joint assessment. I didn't realise this until about four years into my job in NI so I had quite a bit of back taxes to pay!

Mint Sauce

Hard to know what's going to happen. Would imagine the biggest concern for most is the loss of the CTA, personally cant see that happening.

Although if the Britex does go through, can definitely see a border control at ports and airports. Far to many boreens to patrol crossing the border, and being old enough to remember bombed and barricaded roads, cant see that happening. Might piss off the Unionists having to show their passport at Belfast, Derry, London, Edinburgh, etc, but they oddly wanted leave, so maybe should expect it.

Two things planning to do my self, is to start browsing amazon again, and make sure the duel citizenship is up to date as a just incase.

muffler

Mint Sauce wrote: »

.Two things planning to do my self, is to start browsing amazon again, and make sure the duel citizenship is up to date as a just incase.

For bargains?