The Third Test Thread.

nehe milner skudder

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

While it feels disappointing now, I think we will look back on this tour in the future and see that we have learnt a lot about the players and developed some depth to the squad.

We won 3-0 bro

kig

I think that's a bit unfair, I think England were very good and deserved the series white wash. Australia is not as bad as they looked

clsmooth

captbarnacles wrote: »

I think England would beat NZ if they played them this autumn.

They would get destroyed. One thing grinding down an Aussie pack. That won't go so well against the ABs

nehe milner skudder

Zzippy wrote: »

None of the teams involved were robbed as badly, or as brazenly, as France by Joubert in RWC final 2011. That will never be outdone.

A shocker alright.

Waratahs shades it for me

gmurphy70

FAF was a class above today-wonderful fast scrum half-pity we didn't have that sort of speed- Earls I thought was just shocking today in everything he did-offers nothing going forward and injuries have taken its toll

DylanJM

Stheno wrote: »

They didn't beat South Africa though?

So JS has won us two six nations out of three, gotten us as far as we ever have gotten in a WC and now beaten SA which no other Irish coach has done, and people want him gone?

The mind boggles

We've beaten South Africa at home before. Both EOS and Kidney had wins over South Africa. Joe Schmidt is, however, the first coach to beat South Africa in South Africa.

Clegg

One criticism of Schmidt which is valid is that he doesn't use ha bench early enough. Our subs made a good impact when they got on, but they only had about 10 minutes on the pitch. An extra five and things could've been different.

But ultimately our skills let us down at the wrong time. Jackson went for the long pass when going through the hands, for a shorter pass was the correct option. We went too narrow when we got close to the line and our subtlety deserted us. But overall, with a lot of front line players missing due to injury, the Irish squad showed there is strength in depth there and they have the skills to play subtlety. Something they were accused of lacking.

pickarooney

matthew8 wrote: »

Not fair on England, they've been magnificent. Not really fair on Ireland either, even NZ lose most of the time in SA.

I didn't get to see any of England's games so perhaps I'm doing them, and Australia a disservice, but I would be astounded if NZ lost in SA this Autumn.

captbarnacles

England Grand Slam and series whitewash of Australia away. That's quite impressive.

wp_rathead

awec wrote: »

I am not sure, I think England have been made to look a bit better than they actually are by a pretty rubbish Australia.

Nonsense, Phipps aside Australia are a decent side
Themselves and England only team within an asses roar of challenging NZ

nehe milner skudder

matthew8 wrote: »

Not fair on England, they've been magnificent. Not really fair on Ireland either, even NZ lose most of the time in SA.

Not to this SA. They are dreadful

captbarnacles

clsmooth wrote: »

They would get destroyed. One thing grinding down an Aussie pack. That won't go so well against the ABs

They might lose but they won't be destroyed.

Clegg

I think New Zealand we're flattered by an awful Welsh side. The commentators in that game went on about a new philosophy Wales were trying to implement and how they started so well. But ultimately they played the same old Warrenball but with a bit of extra physicality. Their set piece is a shambles and work at the breakdown poor.

Adbrowne

TOH is gone to hospital

LuckyLloyd

yosser hughes wrote: »

That's a shame. Great tour performance. I'm delighted with it. So many positives. Jackson, Marshall,etc. showing they can cut it at this level.So many great performances.
Lots to be optimistic about.

Delighted? There were positives for sure, but losing a test series we should have won against a poor South Africa team is a negative that outweighs them all. You play to win the game.

swiwi_

Clegg wrote: »

I think New Zealand we're flattered by an awful Welsh side. The commentators in that game went on about a new philosophy Wales were trying to implement and how they started so well. But ultimately they played the same old Warrenball but with a bit of extra physicality. Their set piece is a shambles and work at the breakdown poor.

If I was being stingy I could say the same about Ireland - that is not one of the great Boks sides. But I won't.

Instead, I'm just going to give my last work to .ak, who said Ireland would miss Payne. And he was right. And to that I'd add Henshaw. Thought Olding was pretty poor, and the first test pairing of Henshaw/Marshall looked a keeper.

Commiserations, that was definitely a series that slipped away with the finish line in sight. Better luck to the U20s.

Kobe248

awec wrote: »

One of the most baffling refereeing performances I can remember. Some referees have a particular style but I can't make head nor tail of Jackson's, it seems to be to just disregard some laws at certain points of the game.

He actually seemed to ref the game to rules when he was playing

The ball at the end where the SA scrumhalf didnt let go was something BOD used to do when it was legal

He has no place reffing at international level

kuang1

gilberto_eire wrote: »

South Africa are pure rubbish and they still beat us over the three.

Sooner we get rid of Joe the better.

Won't win any GS or WC with him in charge.

Lol...for days!!

Thank you!

Sean Kinsella

dub_skav wrote: »

Handling was poor all game, but when the game was on the line and players needed to step up and string some phases together with clean delivery,solid handling and physical commitment,they did.

Then the ref took matters into his own hands

I'm sorry but the game was on the line to a great extent, when Marshall broke through and that was one of the worst passes I've seen at international level.

Yes the referee was dreadful, but much of that defeat was down to errors and Irish teams seem to have a weakness for such things.

wp_rathead

Adbrowne wrote: »

TOH is gone to hospital

Sh!t

daveup

tiernan was a relevation. he did his stuff without effort. he proved why he is so good. very happy for him and sad that when he left the backline fell apart. he is so feckin organized. he has always been the best controller of a backline.

Stheno

wp_rathead wrote: »

Sh!t

Apparently he's in a lot of pain according to Joe

Adbrowne

daveup wrote: »

tiernan was a relevation. he did his stuff without effort. he proved why he is so good. very happy for him and sad that when he left the backline fell apart. he is so feckin organized. he has always been the best controller of a backline.

what?

Clegg

Glen Jackson had a bit of a shocker today, but ultimately Ireland threw away that series. Luke Marshall made an excellent break and all that was needed was a simple pass away to the wing and we've a great shot at a try. Instead he throws an awful forward pass.

Paddy Jackson throws an intercept metres away from their line, ignoring the easier pass and going for the slam dunk one. Skills let us down at the worst possible moment and that's what's so gutting about this series. We should have won the thing comfortably in the end but we didn't.

There's lots of positives to take from it but right now I'm a bit despondent. We saw a lot of forward play, but it was done at speed so we could get over the gainline. We varied the point of attack so the South African defence didn't have time to set. We saw subtlety in midfield and Marshall excelling at 12 and 13, along with Henshaw moving to 13 and playing well. Payne adds so much to our attack and will be key going forward.

Clegg

Adbrowne wrote: »

what?

I think it might be Billy.

yosser hughes

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Delighted? There were positives for sure, but losing a test series we should have won against a poor South Africa team is a negative that outweighs them all. You play to win the game.

I see end of season tours as an opportunity to develop players. I never really expected us to win a series down there, at the end of a long, long season and with so many 1st choice missing. I'm glad they were missing, as we got to see how other players can perform given the chance.
Winning a test was a bonus and yes we could and maybe should have one another,but it's not the end of the world.
Lots of positives.

matthew8

Clegg wrote: »

Glen Jackson had a bit of a shocker today, but ultimately Ireland threw away that series. Luke Marshall made a indeed ul break and all that was needed was a simple pass away to the wing and we've a great shot at a try. Paddy Jackson throws an intercept metres away from their line, ignoring the easier pass and going for the slam dunk one. Skills let us down at the worst possible moment and that's what's so gutting about this series. We should have won the thing comfortably in the end but we didn't.

There's lots of positives to take from it but right now I'm a bit despondent.

I think that's harsh, no one could have foreseen Faf De Klerk getting high enough to take that one.

Stheno

daveup wrote: »

tiernan was a relevation. he did his stuff without effort. he proved why he is so good. very happy for him and sad that when he left the backline fell apart. he is so feckin organized. he has always been the best controller of a backline.

Why do you constantly close accounts and Re-reg? It's pointless when we all know it's you.

Our back line missed Payne and henshaw today not a rookie who had never started before

Stop talking nonsense

daveup

Adbrowne wrote: »

what?

explain why all our backline double competed for kicks after he left. Tiernan takes no ****e. It is his ball.

Sean Kinsella

swiwi_ wrote: »

If I was being stingy I could say the same about Ireland - that is not one of the great Boks sides. But I won't.

Instead, I'm just going to give my last work to .ak, who said Ireland would miss Payne. And he was right. And to that I'd add Henshaw. Thought Olding was pretty poor, and the first test pairing of Henshaw/Marshall looked a keeper.

Commiserations, that was definitely a series that slipped away with the finish line in sight. Better luck to the U20s.

Olding brings strong running in fairness, but that may not be enough, in itself.

corny

As tough a loss as any to take. Simple errors obviously let us down but I was disappointed with us carrying the ball. Too many players see it as a way of setting up the next ruck. No one, bar Stander maybe, carried like physically dominating the opposition was important. They were rather passive in defence too which makes it worse.

kuang1

Stheno wrote: »

Why do you constantly close accounts and Re-reg? It's pointless when we all know it's you.

Our back line missed Payne and henshaw today not a rookie who had never started before

Stop talking nonsense

Brilliant post.

Either he goes dark (v unlikely) or continues to post and just further proves what some of us already know.

BoardsMember

Thought Joe was very slow to bring on replacements. I think we could have won that if Cronin, Ruddock and Dillane had been brought on at 55/60. We were being dominated up front at that stage and needed some serious power. I doubt we will see a better chance of winning a series in SA n my lifetime.

BoardsMember

Zzippy wrote: »

None of the teams involved were robbed as badly, or as brazenly, as France by Joubert in RWC final 2011. That will never be outdone.

100%, was unbelievable and hard to imagine it will ever be repeated.

Have to say that the perspective of the ref today was puzzling, he looked to be looking for reasons to penalise us, particularly at scrum and breakdown, whereas with them, he seemed to be looking to be lenient or give them the benefit of the doubt. Very hard to watch that type of refereeing performance.

awec

My sole criticism of Schmidt this tour is it took him way too long to make subs. Other than that I am happy out.

CatFromHue

Anyone know why Luke Marshall went off?

kuang1

awec wrote: »

My sole criticism of Schmidt this tour is it took him way too long to make subs. Other than that I am happy out.

100% on this.
Particularly the 2nd and 3rd test, found myself screaming at the tv at 55/60 mins for the bench to be produced.
Thought Dillane was brought on way too late today. (And I'm Henderson's biggest fan ever!)

I assumed we'd see the bench earlier today. Turns out Furlong came on for Ross at 51 minutes (i think), but 2nd row, back row, the backline changes were too late imo.

But I'm also now assuming that there were valid reasons known only to the coaching staff why other changes didn't happen earlier?

daveup

happy to see the final days of earls and trimble

Tigerandahalf

BoardsMember wrote: »

Thought Joe was very slow to bring on replacements. I think we could have won that if Cronin, Ruddock and Dillane had been brought on at 55/60. We were being dominated up front at that stage and needed some serious power. I doubt we will see a better chance of winning a series in SA n my lifetime.

That would be my big criticism.

The worrying thing is that it took injuries to R Kearney and Sexton for changes to be made.
Would Payne or Jackson have been tried if it wasn't for injuries?

He has to give players more opportunities. Too many players are being ignored. How he has ignored Muldowney and Buckley especially is hard to figure.

Olding is a fantastic talent but like Madigan you wonder if the talent is going to be fulfilled. Today Olding was poor except for a small cameo at the end. Going forward Marshall (who had a great tour) and Henshaw look to be the midfield pair with Payne at 15. I would like to see Olding tried at 15 but he may not get the gametime at Ulster.

Henderson was superb in his best position but why was Dillane rested so much? Bealham not given enough gametime. Cronin coming on with less than 10 mins to go.

We still very reliant on set pieces, penalties and trucking the ball up to win games. More creativity is needed and with Payne at full back it is a start. Jackson had a good tour, just needs more consistency. Sexton wasn't missed.

Synode

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Sexton wasn't missed.

Don't know about that. It's been great to give Paddy game time but I reckon we'd have won the series with Sexton there

crisco10

Jack mcgrath played 240 mins I'm pretty sure. A testiment to the man, but also shows either the lack of trust in the backup or they just aren't good enough.

Healy seems permanently injured. So who's it gonna be?

We lost our backfield shape when toh went off, wasn't sure if earls or healy was at 15...seemed to change back and forth. Not sure it helped.

Agree with other comments, would have liked to see cronin, dilanne and ruddock in a little earlier. We were flagging somewhat.

Sean Kinsella

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

That would be my big criticism.

The worrying thing is that it took injuries to R Kearney and Sexton for changes to be made.

Would Payne or Jackson have been tried if it wasn't for injuries?

He has to give players more opportunities. Too many players are being ignored.

Jackson had a good tour, just needs more consistency. Sexton wasn't missed.

There is a certain conservatism in Irish rugby selection and has been IMO for years. I hope Joe doesn't follow suit TBH, we need the new players and I'm not sure Earls and Trimble have much more to give.

mareegoo

Adbrowne wrote: »

TOH is gone to hospital

He could easily have broken his neck. Le Roux was nowhere near the ball never mind intent.

Shocking refereeing.

Its a sad day for rugby - it looked like refs wanted SA to win at all costs........i would like to hear what mr rolland has to say about this

daveup

toh, hospital, bruised ribs. but a shocking contact

RoundBox11

Would anyone know if and where there is a way to watch a replay of the game?

crisco10

mareegoo wrote: »

He could easily have broken his neck. Le Roux was nowhere near the ball never mind intent.

Shocking refereeing.

Its a sad day for rugby - it looked like refs wanted SA to win at all costs........i would like to hear what mr rolland has to say about this

But what us the law around the high ball? I don't think u could argue le roux was doing anything other than going for the ball. It wasn't his fault that toh outjumped him. So is it purely based on outcome?

daveup

Synode wrote: »

Don't know about that. It's been great to give Paddy game time but I reckon we'd have won the series with Sexton there

I don't know. certainly cant say that for certain. it always amused me all the people we miss. in truth we don't miss them and never have

Tigerandahalf

crisco10 wrote: »

But what us the law around the high ball? I don't think u could argue le roux was doing anything other than going for the ball. It wasn't his fault that toh outjumped him. So is it purely based on outcome?

Unfortunately that seems to be the way it is going. All depends on how injured the player is it seems.
Nobody wants to see a guy fall on his neck like that. He is a very lucky guy he didn't do serious damage. Players will have to be protected so we may see a rule tweak there.

irishbucsfan

daveup wrote: »

I don't know. certainly cant say that for certain. it always amused me all the people we miss. in truth we don't miss them and never have

Did we miss Henshaw?

Buer

daveup wrote:

I don't know. certainly cant say that for certain. it always amused me all the people we miss. in truth we don't miss them and never have

Funny you should mention how some people aren't missed at all.