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Why do people support the old IRA but not the Provos?

  • 26-06-2016 2:05am
    #1
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭


    Makes no sense this state was built on violence to say the old ira didn't kill civilians would be ridiculous war is war innocent people die.


Comments

  • #2
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    Reggie knows.


  • #3
    Renegade Mechanic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    That they did, but I'm not entirely sure the original IRA were overly pushed about money laundering, diesel washing or drug pushing and killing anyone - Irish or English - for getting in their way to it.


  • #4
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Renegade Mechanic wrote: »
    That they did, but I'm not entirely sure the original IRA were overly pushed about money laundering, diesel washing or drug pushing and killing anyone - Irish or English - for getting in their way to it.

    The old ira didn't kill anyone? Do you know anything at all about irish history or are you just acting dumb? The provos were strictly against drug dealing I don't think you know the difference between different IRA groups I think you're thinking about the Real IRA which I agree are nothing but scumbags.


  • #5
    Renegade Mechanic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    jack923 wrote: »
    The old ira didn't kill anyone? Do you know anything at all about irish history or are you just acting dumb? The provos were strictly against drug dealing I don't think you know the difference between different IRA groups I think you're thinking about the Real IRA which I agree are nothing but scumbags.

    Ah yes, I had confused provos and real, my mistake :o


  • #6
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Renegade Mechanic wrote: »
    Ah yes, I had confused provos and real, my mistake :o

    Mmi


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  • #7
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    The Sidewards Man wrote: »
    Reggie knows.

    Who's reggie


  • #8
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,361 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Nobody supports the old ira. The old ira doesn't exist. In the same way as nobody supports the Baltimore Bullets, or the gold standard.


  • #9
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,572 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Because there was no political avenue to equality and that narrows the options. If there is a political option, violence is out of order.

    Now there's fairly good equality and political options. Violence is out of order under those circumstances. It easy enough to understand


  • #10
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    jack923 wrote: »
    Makes no sense this state was built on violence to say the old ira didn't kill civilians would be ridiculous war is war innocent people die.

    It actually makes perfect sense in the early 20th century when Sinn Féin started in 1907 it very quickly became an illegal organization and all Sinn Féiners were rounded up post 1916 and imprisoned. Political thought only became a right when we became an Independent country in 1922. The old IRA fought and died to bring about that result.


  • #11
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    It actually makes perfect sense in the early 20th century when Sinn Féin started in 1907 it very quickly became an illegal organization and all Sinn Féiners were rounded up post 1916 and imprisoned. Political thought only became a right when we became an Independent country in 1922. The old IRA fought and died to bring about that result.

    I support both I was just using as an example.


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  • #12
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    jack923 wrote: »
    I support both I was just using as an example.

    Just while i'm on it i support the former and appreciate the reasons for existence of the later.


  • #13
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    jack923 wrote: »
    Makes no sense this state was built on violence to say the old ira didn't kill civilians would be ridiculous war is war innocent people die.

    The Old IRA was the army of the Irish Republic which had a democratic mandate in 1918 and again in 1921. They were fighting against a British government that tried and failed to force the majority on the island of Ireland to remain in the United Kingdom against their will. When the majority of the Irish people gave their support to SF in 1918 they did so knowing full well that their manifesto was to establish a Republic. They knew they were voting for the rebels of 1916 who who stood in that election.

    Provisional SF/IRA had NO democratic mandate and their objective was to force a clear democratic majority in Northern Ireland to accept reunification against their will.The majority of Nationalists in NI voted for the SDLP. There was no democratic endorsement of the Provos and SF by the majority in the Republic of Ireland either. SF only became the force they are now when they stopped bombing and shooting.

    Therefore the Old IRA are seen as legitimate while the Provos are not legitimate.


  • #14
    chicorytip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    The old IRA were freedom fighters in the truest sense - politically minded and idealistic. The provos were bloodthirsty thugs motivated purely by sectarian hatred with no cogent political philosophy whatsoever.


  • #15
    iseedeadpeople
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭iseedeadpeople


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    The Old IRA was the army of the Irish Republic which had a democratic mandate in 1918 and again in 1921. They were fighting against a British government that tried and failed to force the majority on the island of Ireland to remain in the United Kingdom against their will. When the majority of the Irish people gave their support to SF in 1918 they did so knowing full well that their manifesto was to establish a Republic. They knew they were voting for the rebels of 1916 who who stood in that election.

    Provisional SF/IRA had NO democratic mandate and their objective was to force a clear democratic majority in Northern Ireland to accept reunification against their will.The majority of Nationalists in NI voted for the SDLP. There was no democratic endorsement of the Provos and SF by the majority in the Republic of Ireland either. SF only became the force they are now when they stopped bombing and shooting.

    Therefore the Old IRA are seen as legitimate while the Provos are not legitimate.

    one would have to agree. plus look back to the 20's who were the volunteers?? people like in your local GAA club, locals same calibre that would join AGS or the DF when it was formed. The same calibre that join those organisations today.

    Look at your average celebrated provo tattoo, bar stools, unemployed ranging to Garda killers who get celebrated by SF (one of their heroes gets convicted of attempted murder of wife)

    look at what happened with stakeknife and what he done.... would that be done by the men and women in our DF forces the types who would have fought for the republic back at the start??

    People like my great grandfather who was in the old ira were proud of that and my grandfather who acted as a spotter for tans. Very different people to what was (is) in the provos


  • #16
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    jack923 wrote: »
    Makes no sense this state was built on violence to say the old ira didn't kill civilians would be ridiculous war is war innocent people die.

    Which version of the old IRA are you saying people support? The 1918 version? The 1920s version? The 1950s version?

    Are you saying people support them now or people supported them then?

    With such a vague question, it is difficult to give a coherent answer.

    I suppose, the simplest answer is just to say that that was then and this is now. The cultural context, the societal context, the limits of acceptable behaviour, the relative merits of what they were doing etc. all mean that the question is different and the people answering it are different because we are all a product of our time.


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