Season 6 Episode 10 "The Winds of Winter" - "Book readers"

awec

So the death of Tommen means that House Baratheon is now extinct as well?

Daith

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Brilliant episode but genuinely upset by Margaery Tyrell. She was one of my favourite characters and was sure she was scheming up something against the high sparrow. But it's been awhile since i was shocked and upset my a GOT death so I guess it was only a matter of time.

Also really loved the soundtrack they used in the opening scenes

It seemed Margaery had Loras say all the right words just to get him back to Highgarden. Her goal was to get him home. She looked appalled when he was cut open.

Daith

awec wrote: »

So the death of Tommen means that House Baratheon is now extinct as well?

Gendry is out there. Wouldn't take much to go "oh yeah he's Roberts son, here have these lands"

duploelabs

How many houses have we seen die off or have no succession this season?????? Stark, Baratheon, Tyrell, am I missing any more?

Daith

duploelabs wrote: »

How many houses have we seen die off or have no succession this season?????? Stark, Baratheon, Tyrell, am I missing any more?

Bolton.

amos13

duploelabs wrote:

How many houses have we seen die off or have no succession this season?????? Stark, Baratheon, Tyrell, am I missing any more?

Bolton, Martell, Karstark and Umber possibly.

eeguy

So we're all in agreement that Arya killed and skinned that serving girl?

RE Varys and the teleporter.

He left early in episode 8, in that time Mereen has been sieged and had the siege broken, the city has recovered, Dany has consolidated and refit all the Greyjoy and Slaver ships and they're now well underway.

Plenty of time for him to get to Westeros and back. It would have made continuity sense to have his scene in the last episode, but it would have messed up the flow of Bastardbowl.

Daith

amos13 wrote: »

Bolton, Martell, Karstark and Umber possibly.

We've no idea if there are more Umbers or Karstarks I think.

Have no idea how the Martells/Dorne will be ruled.

Daith

eeguy wrote: »

So we're all in agreement that Arya killed and skinned that serving girl?

Or she took that face with her? Walder didn't recognise the girl so not someone he'd know from the Twins maybe?

eeguy

Daith wrote: »

Or she took that face with her? Walder didn't recognise the girl so not someone he'd know from the Twins maybe?

Ahh, that girl was there at the feast and Bronn saw her looking at Jaime. Was it Arya at this stage, or did Arya assume the disguise after Jaime had left.

Bandana boy

eeguy wrote: »

Ahh, that girl was there at the feast and Bronn saw her looking at Jaime. Was it Arya at this stage, or did Arya assume the disguise after Jaime had left.

I am assuming it was Arya , looking for a moment to kill Janie as well.
He did well to get the hell out of dodge

hotshots85

TheDoctor wrote: »

Be interesting to see how much of Season 6 is directly from the next book.

Cant wait to actually get the new book but just to fill in all the gaps around what has happened, it wont need to feel as rushed

amos13

Daith wrote:

We've no idea if there are more Umbers or Karstarks I think.

True, but according to the GoT wikia all known/mentioned heirs are dead. There may be more that come out of the woodwork though.

Mr.Prodston

WYMAN MANDERLY B!TCHES!!!

:cool:

Although not to sure about having a 10 year putting such manners on him about remembering the North :pac:

Now to actually catch up on the thread!

ZeitgeistGlee

Best episode of the season by a long margin, good mix of everything for everyone, couple of slight niggles but those can be excused/ignored. Even the Sand Snakes were kept to only mildly bad instead of outright awful.

Tommen's suicide reminded me too much of the IT Crowd to take seriously, which is a pity as it should've been a much more hard hitting scene to watch.

awec

I actually found the Tommen scene hard hitting. He didn't say anything, just kept staring with no attempts to talk to Cersei and then threw himself out the window without any hesitation whatsoever.

amos13

awec wrote:

I actually found the Tommen scene hard hitting. He didn't say anything, no attempts to talk to Cersei and threw himself out the window without any hesitation whatsoever.

Agree. I think this was done exceptionally well. What we have here is a young, innocent boy, who seems gentle and good, and was never raised for or expecting to be king, thrust into a position where he was supposedly protector of the realm yet couldn't even protect his own wife from his mother. Who lost most of his family in a short space of time, was constantly manipulated, and internalised his pain, realised his mother was all he had left and was evil enough to kill his wife and uncle, and just couldn't handle it anymore.

Ben Gadot

I didn't take any satisfaction from Tommen's death, he was just a kid being pulled every which way. No malice in him and yeah, the way he silently and unflinchingly threw himself out the window was very unsettling.

People seem to have a problem with him because he was useless but by GoT standards, that's not much of a crime.

wp_rathead

I'm glad the episode had ColdBenjen mention that the Wall has magic protecting it - pretty sure first time referenced in the show

Suryavarman

I don't think I've ever enjoyed an hour of television as much as I enjoyed that. The rest of this post offers little in the way of insightful analysis. I just wanted to put into words the reasons I enjoyed it so much.

Last weeks episode was obviously excellent with a brilliantly shot battle. But ultimately we knew that the knights of the Vale would ride to John's rescue and they would win the battle. We also knew that the dragon's would destroy the Masters' ships. There were no surprises and all the story advancement was known beforehand.

We knew the Sept would be destroyed by wildfire so that was no surprise. But the opening 20 minutes were magically done. From the morose piano piece opening the episode along with the shots of Cersei and Tommen getting dressed to the explosion and Tommen's suicide. The look of shock on Lancel's face as he realised what was happening and his last ditch crawl across the chamber and then Cersei's celebratory smile and drink offered a beautiful contrast.

I could feel Davos's heartbreak when he confronted Melisandre. It'll be interesting to see if we hear from her again. Everything else north related was very enjoyable. Sansa's dismissive "it's a nice picture" was brutal. The whole King in the North scene made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Lyanna Mormont is officially the biggest badass in Westeros. Bran's vision was a tease but left us with some easy dots to join, will Jon ever find that he isn't a Stark? Also, where on Earth is Brienne? She should surely be at Winterfell by now.

Olenna's put down of the Sand Snakes was absolutely beautiful. Definitely my favourite character behind the Hound. I have to say I cheered when I saw Varys emerging from the shadows. Looking forward to seeing how this new alliance between Dorne, the Tyrells and Daenerys works out.

The maester at the Citadel was such an arsehole, but he was instantly loveable. It's hard to see where Sam will go from here. He'll hardly cover enough ground in time to be of use in the coming war?

Loved everything Frey related also. Jaime's withering putdown "why do the Lannisters even need the Freys?" told us exactly what was coming. It was delivered in such a satisfactory manner too. The reveal that the pie was made of Freys and then Arya whips off the mask to tell Walder "I wanted you to know that the last thing you’ll ever see is a Stark face smiling down at you as you die". Probably the most satisfying scene yet.

I'm looking forward to the opening dialogue between Cersei and Jaime next season. It'll be interesting to hear what he makes of everything that happened while he was away.

The final scene of Daenerys's fleet headed for Westeros was truly majestic.

The only thing that could have made this episode better was a scene with the Hound but you can't have it all I guess.

ZeitgeistGlee

awec wrote: »

I actually found the Tommen scene hard hitting. He didn't say anything, just kept staring with no attempts to talk to Cersei and then threw himself out the window without any hesitation whatsoever.

amos13 wrote: »

Agree. I think this was done exceptionally well. What we have here is a young, innocent boy, who seems gentle and good, and was never raised for or expecting to be king, thrust into a position where he was supposedly protector of the realm yet couldn't even protect his own wife from his mother. Who lost most of his family in a short space of time, was constantly manipulated, and internalised his pain, realised his mother was all he had left and was evil enough to kill his wife and uncle, and just couldn't handle it anymore.

Intellectually I agree with both of you, it's a very well crafted scene that indicts Westeros/Planetos as a place where the good and kind simply cannot prosper because they'll always be outmanoeuvred by those willing to go bad. Tommen being referred to repeatedly as innocent, sweet, kind, gentle, etc and trying to do his best in-spite of the fact he never expected to be King just further highlights the difference between him and the Great Game's other players. In the end he's left horrified and broken to the point all he can do is leap out a window.

If I were to rewatch it I'm sure I'd feel differently but it was just too similar looking and the general absurdity of the IT Crowd robbed it of the emotional bang.

eeguy

I can't wait for the conversation between Jaime and Cersei in the next season.

"So I go off to Riverrun for 2 weeks and I come back to find you've killed the High Sparrow, three of the Tyrells, my uncle, my cousin, all the Septons and hundreds of civilians."
"Yes"
"And out last child has committed suicide"
"Yes"
"And part of the city is destroyed"
"Yes"
"And Highgarden, Dorne, The North, The Vale and the Iron Islands are now against us".
"Yes"
"And now there's an invasion fleet and dragons coming, led by our brother who you also tried to kill".
"Yes...but I'm the Queen".


"Well, not for bloody long!"

#Queenslayer...

homerun_homer

Daith wrote: »

Or she took that face with her? Walder didn't recognise the girl so not someone he'd know from the Twins maybe?

If she took the face then she'd be indebted to the Many Faced God and would have a hit on her again. I would wonder if she got the face from a dead girl rather than killing someone innocent. We know Arya can be a bad ass murderer but she does have a conscience.

eeguy

It's a shame we didn't start a "Who will survive Game of Thrones" poll at Season 2.
It would be interesting to see how it would have turned out.

PIORUN

great episode but I hope Benjen left a horse otherwise how the hell is Myra going to drag Bran around ?!

scrumqueen

I though episode 9 was an immensely satisfying episode but this was every bit as good, actually, no...better.

The score, oh god it was magnificently done, 10/10 I think it really made the episode.

As other posters pointed out, I took no joy from Tommens suicide but the rest....

ARYA! I was clapping gleefully watching that unfold. Stark sisters are doin' it for themselves!!!

The King in the North chants against the GOT music got me a bit misty eyed, as did the Tyrion being made hand of the Queen!

We knew all along littlefinger wanted the iron throne, but now he has come out and said it and made his feelings known towards Sansa.

Will he keep attempting to win her over? Or is he hurt because she turned him down?

Just me or did anyone else notice her face drop a little when they all proclaimed for Jon in Winterfell? Did she think that they would make her 'Queen of the North'?

And from that, is she now thinking, well I'm not much use here anymore, maybe Baelish's offer isnt so bad?

The time travelling aspects (speed at which Jamie got back to KL and Varys getting to Dorne and back in the past two episodes) did grate on me too, but id rather gloss over that because they wrapped up so many loose ends for us.

Also, I felt the little birds stabbing Pycell to death to be a bit unnecessary! Anyone else?

Guess they arent Varys 'little birds' anymore, more like Qyburns little assassins!

Daith

PIORUN wrote: »

great episode but I hope Benjen left a horse otherwise how the hell is Myra going to drag Bran around ?!

I've a feeling they'll get to the Night Watch and they'll cart Bran back. Meera can't drag him can she?

scrumqueen

I thought episode 9 was an immensely satisfying episode but this was every bit as good, actually, no...better.

The score, oh god it was magnificently done, 10/10 I think it really made the episode.

As other posters pointed out, I took no joy from Tommens suicide but the rest....

ARYA! I was clapping gleefully watching that unfold. Stark sisters are doin' it for themselves!!!

The King in the North chants against the GOT music got me a bit misty eyed, as did the Tyrion being made hand of the Queen!

We knew all along littlefinger wanted the iron throne, but now he has come out and said it and made his feelings known towards Sansa.

Will he keep attempting to win her over? Or is he hurt because she turned him down?

Just me or did anyone else notice her face drop a little when they all proclaimed for Jon in Winterfell? Did she think that they would make her 'Queen of the North'?

And from that, is she now thinking, well I'm not much use here anymore, maybe Baelish's offer isnt so bad?

The time travelling aspects (speed at which Jamie got back to KL and Varys getting to Dorne and back in the past two episodes) did grate on me too, but id rather gloss over that because they wrapped up so many loose ends for us.

Also, I felt the little birds stabbing Pycell to death to be a bit unnecessary! Anyone else?

Guess they arent Varys 'little birds' anymore, more like Qyburns little assassins!

eeguy

Also, the babe in Pycell's bed.

He's still got it

Well, I mean, not any more, but ya know...

Mr.Prodston

That episode had everything you reasonably expected or asked for except for perhaps the Hound, some White Walkers and she who must not be named for she doesn't exist.

Unfortunately my main take away from poor Tommen's reaction is that I'd love to see how Maurice Moss would handle the game of thrones :pac: Richard Ayoade cameo for season 7 anyone?

The whole build up was exceptionally crafted though. It didn't feel like GOT but never felt more like GOT if that makes sense. It was relentless in how slowly it built and built. Mace Tyrell, you sweet prince taken from us too soon May you sing forever more! I thought more of KL would bite the bullet, a rather controlled explosion for wildfire. I always thought it would happen at night. Jaime's look of utter contempt has him back on track at the very least.

A good segway to start up the debate over whether Jaime and Cersei are Aerys' children perhaps rather than the wider Tyrion one?

Oldtown and the Citadel looks class. I wish we got to see more from Sam this season. John Bradley hardly had more than 15 minutes on screen in total?

I think they found the one way that Manderly's reduced (yet now included role) is acceptable with Arya's cooking and Lady Mormont's badassery. She's the daughter Stannis wouldn't have burned. Speaking of.....Liam Cunningham has elevated Davos to all he could be and more. This isn't new but my word I hope he gets critical acclaim.

King in the North eh? Baelish didn't seem too pleased about that. His look to Sansa implied what exactly? His dissatisfaction or something more? The Tower of Joy. It was kind of a bit flat or was it just that it just wasn't even remotely a shock? I had to press my ear up to the TV to even barely here the Robert part which I assume we were meant to hear after the complete muffled hush.

Lady Olenna's put down of the sandsnakes almost made the whole existence of them worthwhile. Did D&D realise just how badly they f*cked up with them? Varys is some man for the transport but I guess the whole passing of time is acceptable enough. I didn't particularly mind the rousing Dany/Dragons end as she's actually on her way.

Credit where it's due. That was an absolutely fantastic episode of television and I can't wait to watch it again tonight. Now please George if you could get the real The Winds of Winter out then that'd be brilliant.

Finally. That music has sent shivers down my spine:

Daith

eeguy wrote: »

Also, the babe in Pycell's bed.

He's still got it

Well, I mean, not any more, but ya know...

She'll never get paid now!

EagererBeaver

eeguy wrote: »

I can't wait for the conversation between Jaime and Cersei in the next season.

"So I go off to Riverrun for 2 weeks and I come back to find you've killed the High Sparrow, three of the Tyrells, my uncle, my cousin, all the Septons and hundreds of civilians."
"Yes"
"And out last child has committed suicide"
"Yes"
"And part of the city is destroyed"
"Yes"
"And Highgarden, Dorne, The North, The Vale and the Iron Islands are now against us".
"Yes"
"And now there's an invasion fleet and dragons coming, led by our brother who you also tried to kill".
"Yes...but I'm the Queen".


"Well, not for bloody long!"

#Queenslayer...

Yeah, but, based on the character to date, he'll either have sex with or rape her first.

That look he gave her had better finally be a hint of a redemption story and the introduction of a bit of complexity into Jaime's character. Long overdue in the show.

ItsChecoTime

Daith wrote: »

Gendry is out there. Wouldn't take much to go "oh yeah he's Roberts son, here have these lands"

I'd imagine Gendry will take the place of Young Griff/Aegon in the next season and we'll be left with a similar suspicion whether he is legitimate (Cersei + Robert's son) or not.

That was an absolute belter of an episode.
I can't remember a better season finale from Game Of Thrones.

Nothing worth complaining about. I thought Jon might reject the offer of King in The North.

At last, Dany is travelling somewhere proper.

Didnt see that Arya thing coming at all

WoolyJumper

I rewatched the opening scene of of this episode again. Probably one of my favourite scenes from GOT. The score gave it a completely different feel to what I'd normally expect. It was also one of those Scenes where not a lot was said but you still knew how people were thinking/feeling which can only be credited to the acting and directing. In terms of the score, the directing and the level of acting it actually reminded me a little bit of the leftovers if anyone is familiar with it. Also a really good show, with season 2 probably making it my favourite show of all time.

riffmongous

Practically Jon's heritage has no effect right? As no one could ever actually prove it, who would believe Reed or a handmaiden?

Unless of course it was proved in a more physical sense, imagine Jon refusing to surrender to Daenarys and her reluctantly saying Drakaris...I really hope that I get to see that

Falthyron

There was something about the look Benjen gave Bran when he left him at the wall. A sort of: "I know the wall will come down if you pass under it and I am okay with that...". A look of guilt or deception, imo. This might be a nod to book readers as to the true intentions of Coldhands.

Daith

Falthyron wrote: »

There was something about the look Benjen gave Bran when he left him at the wall. A sort of: "I know the wall will come down if you pass under it and I am okay with that...". A look of guilt or deception, imo. This might be a nod to book readers as to the true intentions of Coldhands.

I'm convinced he was there to herd Bran back through the Wall. Why would the wights stop chasing Bran? There was very few attacking Bran and Meera.

Am sure he's an agent of the Night King.

jebidiah

Falthyron wrote: »

There was something about the look Benjen gave Bran when he left him at the wall. A sort of: "I know the wall will come down if you pass under it and I am okay with that...". A look of guilt or deception, imo. This might be a nod to book readers as to the true intentions of Coldhands.

Will be interesting to see if that plays out, but I felt it was more a touch of sadness (or whatever he can feel) that he couldn't go with Bran, be with his family etc.

Instead he is back off north to presumably disrupt the nights king and the walkers, and sadly probably die again.

EagererBeaver

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Looks like Qyburn holds the position of master of whisperer's and Grand Maestar now for Cersei, doubtful she would know about the alliance coming for her or what has happened in the north, as Littlefinger said though news will travel that he has declared for Sansa.

Ceraei has the lannister army Jamie has brought with him, the city watch and the gold cloaks. Dany needs a marriage pact only Jon can provide as Dorne is ladies only, Walder and his prominent sons are dead, he had an abundance of heirs so someone gets to be Lord of the crossing, not im

The Lannister army is nothing and given the look the two exchanged, Jaime might not be giving her any backing (hiyooo). Who the army follows then is up in the air.

DownOneTourist

RobbingBandit, Dany won't marry John! What if R+L=J? It seems very likely after this episode. At the very least we know lyanna is the mother.

Bandana boy

PIORUN wrote: »

great episode but I hope Benjen left a horse otherwise how the hell is Myra going to drag Bran around ?!

I took it that was the Weir tree Jon prayed at when he joined the watch which is a couple of hundred yards from the wall

FunLover18

Did anyone else have a chuckle at Littlefinger's dream of sitting in the Iron Throne? And he used to call Sansa naive.

RobbingBandit

Half my post didn't stick so I have deleted it, will try and repost later I am having issues now, also Targaryan inter marry usually brother to sister but aunt to nephew would serve given their ages are similar if he is her nephew which I am still unsure of. If not then he is nearly the same age and the enemy of her enemy so a marriage pact suits both side.

Bandana boy

FunLover18 wrote: »

Did anyone else have a chuckle at Littlefinger's dream of sitting in the Iron Throne? And he used to call Sansa naive.

Its no so far fetched , bar Dany and her ridiculous army coming in from afar he has it pretty much to be his for the taking and she could have fallen flat a dozen times so would have been impossible to plan for her.That of course is assuming he does not have a plan for her too.

Conall Cernach

Bandana boy wrote: »

Its no so far fetched , bar Dany and her ridiculous army coming in from afar he has it pretty much to be his for the taking and she could have fallen flat a dozen times so would have been impossible to plan for her.That of course is assuming he does not have a plan for her too.

He could put the proposition to Jon that the "King in the North" join forces with the Vale to destroy the Lannisters and put him on the throne in Kings Landing to ensure an "ally" in the South. To cement the deal Jon could marry off Sansa to Littlefinger. Neither of them know that Dany is on her way or that she is now quite capable of defeating both their armies.

DownOneTourist

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Half my post didn't stick so I have deleted it, will try and repost later I am having issues now, also Targaryan inter marry usually brother to sister but aunt to nephew would serve given their ages are similar if he is her nephew which I am still unsure of. If not then he is nearly the same age and the enemy of her enemy so a marriage pact suits both side.

Yes the Targaryens did in the past but I reckon the idea would disgust Dany because of her weird brother and it would disgust John because he grew up with honourable ned. I hate saying it but marrying Robin Arryn would give dany the respect from the north

Daith

Conall Cernach wrote: »

He could put the proposition to Jon that the "King in the North" join forces with the Vale to destroy the Lannisters and put him on the throne in Kings Landing to ensure an "ally" in the South. To cement the deal Jon could marry off Sansa to Littlefinger. Neither of them know that Dany is on her way or that she is now quite capable of defeating both their armies.

Have a feeling the North will focus on the Walkers now. Can't see them trying to march south at all

hardCopy

jebidiah wrote: »

Will be interesting to see if that plays out, but I felt it was more a touch of sadness (or whatever he can feel) that he couldn't go with Bran, be with his family etc.

Instead he is back off north to presumably disrupt the nights king and the walkers, and sadly probably die again.

A bit of hopelessness I'd say. Bran is mankind's only hope and Benjen doesn't think he's ready. Along with the fact that he can't do much to disrupt the white walkers by himself and he's unlikely ever to see another human.

nicki11

Great episode loved every minute of it even if some people made very good guesses which turned out to be true -though some were years in the making- I only have myself to blame so I will probably read less theories about next season). I liked the Jon reveal the most (because yay finally also I guess Dany) but Kings landing was amazing, great special effects, music and atmosphere, I loved how creepy Cersei's coronation and the murder of Lancel was.