DB Pay Rises sought

ixoy

We hear a lot about no pay rises since 2008 but that would only apply to those who've reached the top of their pay scale. How many are still getting increments each year (i.e. whose wages are still increasing for now)?

clairek6

cherryghost wrote: »

My wifes employer is demanding she come in for work without any reimbursement for her method of travel tomorrow and Friday. We only live near a bus stop so taxi is the only way in for her. Is this fair??

I've to make my way to unpaid placement today tomorrow and all days for the proposed strikes with zero reimbursement m, so I'd presume so.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I think we should do away with free and the money saved could be used to reduce ordinary to an affordable level for all.

Political suicide.

LXFlyer

Of all the days for it to happen, LUAS Green Line is suspended from Carrickmines to Brides Glen due to an overhead line fault at Laughanstown.

tabbey

There should be no public sector pay increases until such time, if ever, pay cuts are restored.

Between 2009 and 2011 most public servants lost pay a number of times. In the CIE group of companies, staff got away with minor adjustments, years later. The CIE union reps are happy to enjoy the comforts of public service employment, but unwilling to bear the downsides.

The government, as ultimate employer, should have resisted the tram drivers earlier this year,it is not surprising that bus drivers have made a large pay claim. Indeed the work of a bus driver is much more difficult than a tram driver.

I feel sympathy for Shane Ross, perhaps for the first time, as he is now in a difficult situation, not of his own making, but created by the indifference of his predecessor, and that entire government, whose attitude was leave it to the LRC. Any government has a duty to lead, to tell groups what is right, and what is not acceptable. The present government seems to be no different, allowing the law of the jungle to prevail.

While I have sympathy for the bus drivers as individual workers doing a difficult job at a modest rate of pay, I cannot condone the demands, in the context of ongoing pay restraint in the public sector generally.

Many of the people walking to work today, for their minimum wages, would love to have jobs in Dublin Bus, and the other CIE companies. This dispute can only lead to demands for greater private sector involvement in the Irish public transport network.

MOH

howiya wrote: »

It's actually longer if you count from 9pm tonight to first bus on Saturday morning. No nightlink services running Friday night/Saturday morning

Love how they get it both ways. No buses from 9pm Wednesday night so they can start their strike at midnight. But even though they're ending midnight, still no Friday night Nitelinks

punisher5112

MOH wrote: »

Love how they get it both ways. No buses from 9pm Wednesday night so they can start their strike at midnight. But even though they're ending midnight, still no Friday night Nitelinks

Again that's not drivers that's management.

MOH

punisher5112 wrote: »

Again that's not drivers that's management.

Sure

punisher5112

MOH wrote: »

Sure

Sure sure

kidneyfan

Disgusting of the Train drivers to drive the extra trains that were laid on. Whatever happened to solidarity?

LXFlyer

Is it normal practice for employees in a company who are on strike when their working day starts to be allowed resume work mid-duty?

I'm not sure many companies would allow that?

Allinall

kidneyfan wrote: »

Disgusting of the Train drivers to drive the extra trains that were laid on. Whatever happened to solidarity?

Thankfully it appears to be a thing of the past.

end of the road

tabbey wrote: »

The government, as ultimate employer, should have resisted the tram drivers earlier this year

the government can't get involved in the workings of a private company.

tabbey wrote: »

Many of the people walking to work today, for their minimum wages, would love to have jobs in Dublin Bus, and the other CIE companies.

and yet they didn't apply in their droves when jobs were advertised. always plenty of people who would supposibly love but few who will apply.

tabbey wrote: »

This dispute can only lead to demands for greater private sector involvement in the Irish public transport network.

oh i'm sure it can like every single other dispute (after all, some still haven't got from the luas strike that strikes happen in private sector companies)

seamus

ixoy wrote: »

We hear a lot about no pay rises since 2008 but that would only apply to those who've reached the top of their pay scale. How many are still getting increments each year (i.e. whose wages are still increasing for now)?

Some simple facts

Cost of living between 2008 and 2016 has dropped by 1%.

Across the entire country and all sectors, average weekly earnings has dropped by 0.4% in the same period.

By all measures, a bus driver in Q2 2016 is (marginally) better off than one in Q2 2008.

There is no basis for this pay increase claim.

MrMorooka

tabbey wrote: »

Many of the people walking to work today, for their minimum wages, would love to have jobs in Dublin Bus, and the other CIE companies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dublin Bus have been trying to fill driver positions for well over a year now and not having much luck, there's a thread on it in the bus enthusiast forum here. The old "lots of people willing and able to do their job" chestnut doesn't wash with me.

Graham

MrMorooka wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dublin Bus have been trying to fill driver positions for well over a year now and not having much luck, there's a thread on it in the bus enthusiast forum here. The old "lots of people willing and able to do their job" chestnut doesn't wash with me.

At this stage it's almost like Dublin Bus are trying not to fill the roles so the above line can continue to be trotted out.

punisher5112

seamus wrote: »

Some simple facts

Cost of living between 2008 and 2016 has dropped by 1%.

Across the entire country and all sectors, average weekly earnings has dropped by 0.4% in the same period.

By all measures, a bus driver in Q2 2016 is (marginally) better off than one in Q2 2008.

There is no basis for this pay increase claim.

Are you mad?

I can't afford to live in Dublin my wages are rubbish and rents and bills and so many extra taxes and levies.

I have been pushed out of Dublin 3 years as rents are unreal and now may even have to move further again as rents outside Dublin are rising.

devnull

Just to confirm as expected aircoach has deployed substantial extra capacity with a number of double deck buses and coaches hired in.

end of the road

seamus wrote: »

Some simple facts

Cost of living between 2008 and 2016 has dropped by 1%.

Across the entire country and all sectors, average weekly earnings has dropped by 0.4% in the same period.

By all measures, a bus driver in Q2 2016 is (marginally) better off than one in Q2 2008.

There is no basis for this pay increase claim.

the 2008 agreement is the basis for the pay claim. do you agree the company must honour it's agreements or not agree to them if they have no intention of honouring them? the staff honoured their part of the agreement.

Graham wrote: »

At this stage it's almost like Dublin Bus are trying not to fill the roles so the above line can continue to be trotted out.

they are trying very hard to fill them. they can't. they need to fill the rolls but barely anyone is applying.

devnull

How many people work in head office? Not many on picket line?

lucernarian

seamus wrote: »

Some simple facts

Cost of living between 2008 and 2016 has dropped by 1%.

Across the entire country and all sectors, average weekly earnings has dropped by 0.4% in the same period.

By all measures, a bus driver in Q2 2016 is (marginally) better off than one in Q2 2008.

There is no basis for this pay increase claim.

Hmmm.

What were the average wages of a bus driver in 2008 vs 2015? While I don't agree with relativising one's salary for pay claims, by the same token there is no evidence in your post for asserting that drivers are marginally better off now than in 2008.

WomanSkirtFan8

devnull wrote: »

Political suicide.

yes. not to mention probably extremely legally difficult as well. To me, its a complete nonsense because it won't solve the problem of inept management.:)

dfx-

Can anyone point me to what the NTA has said in this dispute or where they've shown leadership? I remember them being happy to stay quiet in the background and let the media narrative of DB v Drivers play out in May 2015.

They're also the ones holding the government credit card, creaming off DBs surplus and stand to gain in their policy of tendering should DB fold (through continual strikes or wages DB can't afford). It would be interesting to read their opinion...

loyatemu

kidneyfan wrote: »

Disgusting of the Train drivers to drive the extra trains that were laid on. Whatever happened to solidarity?

what extra trains?

devnull

The most amusing thing I read in the last few days from a Sinn Fein TD is that it's a disgrace that Dublin Bus had some of their surplus removed from them and instead had it assigned back to the NTA.

This was the same TD who spent the last strike continually arguing that "Public Services" should not make a profit because such profits would just be used by greedy people to line their own pockets and instead should be used to be put back into infrastructure.

They're now arguing that the money should be set aside for wages not infrastructure, which basically says, greed is fine as long as it's us and not them.

LastStop

loyatemu wrote: »

what extra trains?

The nta has hand out contracts to operators. They can't run services outside of those contracts.

When the Luas was on strike people lambasted DB for not putting on extra buses. They could have but the NTA doesn't allow it. So people got left standing at stops.

Disgruntled Badger

As I slogged my way down the quays tonight in the rain before I took a taxi home which cost me a fare I can't afford, I wondered; what can I do about this. How can I get them back. The drivers and the union don't give a fiddlers what me and the other 400k people they left high and wet today. They think we exist to give them a job and an exorbitant salary. So I'm going to start lobbying my local TDs to see if, on the back of recent industrial action, that the Dail debate the breakup and privatisation of DB in favour of multiple private entities operating the routes instead, to protect the public from a monopoly!

Kyleboy

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

As I slogged my way down the quays tonight in the rain before I took a taxi home which cost me a fare I can't afford, I wondered; what can I do about this. How can I get them back. The drivers and the union don't give a fiddlers what me and the other 400k people they left high and wet today. They think we exist to give them a job and an exorbitant salary. So I'm going to start lobbying my local TDs to see if, on the back of recent industrial action, that the Dail debate the breakup and privatisation of DB in favour of multiple private entities operating the routes instead, to protect the public from a monopoly!

Good lad, hope it makes you feel better

clairek6

I really don't get their statements of it being such a tough job. They are locked in their cab protected in harm, maybe get a bit of verbal abuse. Nothing close to the stuff Gards and nurses are almost guaranteed daily

Disgruntled Badger

That's my hope. :-)

Disgruntled Badger

Lol....just turned on Prime Time and what are they debating....privatisation of DB!!! Ignore the power of boards.ie at your peril.... Now I feel better :-)

LXFlyer

LastStop wrote: »

The nta has hand out contracts to operators. They can't run services outside of those contracts.

When the Luas was on strike people lambasted DB for not putting on extra buses. They could have but the NTA doesn't allow it. So people got left standing at stops.

Really?

Where would DB have found the buses (and indeed the drivers) to operate these services?

Barring vehicles in the pits on maintenance, every bus is already out on the road in the morning peak.

Quite aside from the NTA contracts, they do not have any spare buses or indeed drivers to operate extra services.

Stephen15

clairek6 wrote: »

I really don't get their statements of it being such a tough job. They are locked in their cab protected in harm, maybe get a bit of verbal abuse. Nothing close to the stuff Gards and nurses are almost guaranteed daily

Forgetting to mention shop workers ando security staff

Tin Roofer

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

Lol....just turned on Prime Time and what are they debating....privatisation of DB!!! Ignore the power of boards.ie at your peril.... Now I feel better :-)

The Badger strikes again!

Banjoxed

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

Lol....just turned on Prime Time and what are they debating....privatisation of DB!!! Ignore the power of boards.ie at your peril.... Now I feel better :-)

Some BS peddled by the SF person, unless you consider tendering the 17 and the 75 to be "cherry picking".

Stephen15

The worst torture the unions are putting on us is having listening to that Ingrid one on the news seriously what grave did rte dig her up from

punisher5112

clairek6 wrote: »

I really don't get their statements of it being such a tough job. They are locked in their cab protected in harm, maybe get a bit of verbal abuse. Nothing close to the stuff Gards and nurses are almost guaranteed daily

Come out with me for a day and it will open your eyes to what we actually have to put up with.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Come out with me for a day and it will open your eyes to what we actually have to put up with.

How come db dosent deploy private security on buses if it's that bad

end of the road

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

As I slogged my way down the quays tonight in the rain before I took a taxi home which cost me a fare I can't afford, I wondered; what can I do about this. How can I get them back. The drivers and the union don't give a fiddlers what me and the other 400k people they left high and wet today. They think we exist to give them a job and an exorbitant salary. So I'm going to start lobbying my local TDs to see if, on the back of recent industrial action, that the Dail debate the breakup and privatisation of DB in favour of multiple private entities operating the routes instead, to protect the public from a monopoly!

nah, your grand thanks. a break up and privatization of dublin bus to still end up with a monopoly is something this particular tax payer does not wish to pay for thanks very much.

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

How come db dosent deploy private security on buses if it's that bad

Because that costs money.

It's a cost they won't put up with and rely on Garda or hope the driver can deal with or ignore the carrying on.

I have been physically abused, punched spat on on numerous occasions, knives pulled along with threats of been stuck with a syringe, death threats and also I have been followed by other motorists and many many more instances.

What's needed is the inspectors they have should be out night and day along with extra as there are only a few that are out and only at certain times.

Vic_08

clairek6 wrote: »

I really don't get their statements of it being such a tough job. They are locked in their cab protected in harm, maybe get a bit of verbal abuse. Nothing close to the stuff Gards and nurses are almost guaranteed daily

You'll get no argument from me that Gardai and Nurses among others have to put up with an entirely unacceptable level of abuse. This is a massive problem in Ireland and one being ignored by those in power.

However using that to minimise the abuse other public facing workers deal with (usually from the very same scumbags) is wrong, nobody should have to take daily abuse as part of their job.

The difference between bus driving and most other public facing jobs is that you are 100% of the time alone with no expectation of any back-up in any sort of useful time frame, often in virtual no-go areas you wouldn't think of going into for any other reason. See how much good you think a sheet of perspex will do you when faced with scumbags carrying weapons, throwing bricks or threatening to spray lighter fluid in the cab.

Infini

Tbh the real problem is the whole transport setup in Ireland is a joke really. Even privatisation is a joke it might seem fine for intercity things but tbh for Dublin we dont need privatise this or that we need a bloody state service. Commuter Rail, Trams, buses in Dublin should just directly be under a Dublin Transport Authority and none of the crappy management inbetween. Breaking up the companies 30 years ago was only done for political convenience and it was rather stupid as it leaves all 3 subcompanies competing with one another instead of complimenting one another. It should be something that gets people around like in Toronto where you pay $3.25 and you get unlimited travel for 3hrs on bus/tram/commuter train to your destination (you switch transport on the same ticket). Mangement in the CIE companies is a pain because its got the wrong kind of people in there that have no interest except milking it for money and pulling a fast one.

Honestly the driver's deserve the pay increase they only want the 15%+6% owed to keep above water and as much as you want to debate this and that costs have increased across the board since 2008 and this is the result: More taxes + increased costs = more demand for pay to keep up. Vicious cycle but unfortuately one that people have little control over.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

nah, your grand thanks. a break up and privatization of dublin bus to still end up with a monopoly is something this particular tax payer does not wish to pay for thanks very much.

'Break up' implies multiple parts so no such monopoly.

howiya

punisher5112 wrote: »

Because that costs money.

It's a cost they won't put up with and rely on Garda or hope the driver can deal with or ignore the carrying on.

I have been physically abused, punched spat on on numerous occasions, knives pulled along with threats of been stuck with a syringe, death threats and also I have been followed by other motorists and many many more instances.

What's needed is the inspectors they have should be out night and day along with extra as there are only a few that are out and only at certain times.

Out of interest, do your union do much in pushing for changes like this?

howiya

Infini2 wrote: »

Mangement in the CIE companies is a pain because its got the wrong kind of people in there that have no interest except milking it for money and pulling a fast one.

Who hires these people?

trellheim

Tbh the real problem is the whole transport setup in Ireland is a joke really. Even privatisation is a joke it might seem fine for intercity things but tbh for Dublin we dont need privatise this or that we need a bloody state service. Commuter Rail, Trams, buses in Dublin should just directly be under a Dublin Transport Authority and none of the crappy management inbetween. Breaking up the companies 30 years ago was only done for political convenience and it was rather stupid as it leaves all 3 subcompanies competing with one another instead of complimenting one another. It should be something that gets people around like in Toronto where you pay $3.25 and you get unlimited travel for 3hrs on bus/tram/commuter train to your destination (you switch transport on the same ticket). Mangement in the CIE companies is a pain because its got the wrong kind of people in there that have no interest except milking it for money and pulling a fast one.

Honestly the driver's deserve the pay increase they only want the 15%+6% owed to keep above water and as much as you want to debate this and that costs have increased across the board since 2008 and this is the result: More taxes + increased costs = more demand for pay to keep up. Vicious cycle but unfortuately one that people have little control over.

Did you copy and paste that from the LUAS drivers thread and change the names, or what ? Do you have a wall of text ready to go , or is it rather you'd ignore the labour court recommendation as the premier workplace arbiter in this land . fking fed up with this ****e


Let's remember for anyone looking for "facts that matter" - Unions have turned their noses up at a payrise . this payrise was not the one the company offered but rather an independently arrived at one by the LC.

This is plain and simple 'try the LUAS codology and claim its nothing like' ah sure they have to give in, we're worth it.

end of the road

Graham wrote: »

'Break up' implies multiple parts so no such monopoly.

smaller monopolies then.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

smaller monopolies then.

It's a start. Multiple smaller operators would certainly find it harder to bully the state into agreeing to excessive pay demands.

Tickityboo

clairek6 wrote: »

I really don't get their statements of it being such a tough job. They are locked in their cab protected in harm, maybe get a bit of verbal abuse. Nothing close to the stuff Gards and nurses are almost guaranteed daily

Ah you're only a ****ing prick !! you're only a dickhead and ****ing 're-tard ****!!


Now that was not aimed at you but was just a little bit of abuse I got last week because a guy didn't check the destination on the front of the bus and because I wouldn't pull into the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway to let him out!!
Just a few sticks and stones that a perspex screen can't protect you from and not nice.

end of the road

Graham wrote: »

It's a start. Multiple smaller operators would certainly find it harder to bully the state into agreeing to excessive pay demands.

nobody bullies the state to agree to anything. multiple smaller monopolies does not remove the network being effected in full by strike action. in short, no benefits for me as a user and tax payer from smaller monopolies.