RAW 27-6-16

CSF

I don't get how one can say Reigns and Styles had great feuds. They had a very good match and a decent match. Neither of them can talk and WWE weren't willing to let either of them go all out as a good guy or a bad guy, so the booking ended up very tame as a result.

I'd watch anything Styles was in but feud of the year contender it was not. A week in to the Cena feud and people already had more reason to care about it, because Cena can work the mic and play his character well.

Moneymaker

correction wrote: »

I don't love him, I just happen to think he's a pretty good main event guy. Good look, can go in the ring and passable on the mic with great upside. I enjoyed his feud with Styles, and thought the Rollins match was executed very well. I think it's a shame a large portion of the fans boo him as his already consistently good matches would be even better if he was given a chance.

Passable on the mic. Good one.

He's slightly above average in the ring but that doesn't cut it for a main event guy.

He's their handpicked chosen son. Everyone knows it. The fans don't want that and he's not over(he was drawing TERRIBLY as champion). He's mind numbingly dull and there's no drama or intruige to anything he does.

At least Cena has charisma and is great on the mic and for the WWE style, great in the ring.

This guy has the charisma of a plank of wood and I literally fell asleep during the Mania main event.

I just get morbid fascination at watching them desperately think of zanier and more ludicrous ways to try and get him cheered. It's tremendous train wreck TV. I couldn't care less if he vanished forever. The product would be better for it.

CSF

I don't agree with the above average in the ring thing either if we're judging relative to the WWE roster. If you put all the guys in WWE on the list and ranked them in terms of in-ring ability, I don't think he would make the top half.

The mid-card is choc-full of guys who are way stronger in the ring. Sheamus, Cesaro, Ziggler, Zayn, Kofi, Big E.

Like given the fact that there have been numerous guys who were in matches near the start of Reigns' Shield career, who were in multi-man matches with the Shield and told they were to make look Roman good.

You consider that pretty much every match he has ever been in has been almost solely catered towards making him look great, and people still aren't that convinced by him. That is really bad going.

correction

Not being convinced by him in the ring is purely a fan issue, he has consistently good matches which is all he can do really. I don't know about these 'numerous' people told to make him look good, I only know of Punk and even then it doesn't really matter. The match is the match and if it's good what difference does it make?

Of the list you provided I'd say only Cesaro and Zayn are clearly better in ring, Kofi and Sheamus may be better but it's close and he's definitely better than Ziggler and Big E. That is not me not liking any of those guys, I think Big E should be in the main event scene after the New Day break up.

I really don't understand where people get this problem with matches making him look good, the object is to make the people in it look good. Since he's won the title, he and his opponent have looked good in every match he's had so I really can't grasp the issue here.

Bounty Hunter

correction wrote: »

Not being convinced by him in the ring is purely a fan issue, he has consistently good matches which is all he can do really. I don't know about these 'numerous' people told to make him look good, I only know of Punk and even then it doesn't really matter. The match is the match and if it's good what difference does it make?

Of the list you provided I'd say only Cesaro and Zayn are clearly better in ring, Kofi and Sheamus may be better but it's close and he's definitely better than Ziggler and Big E. That is not me not liking any of those guys, I think Big E should be in the main event scene after the New Day break up.

I really don't understand where people get this problem with matches making him look good, the object is to make the people in it look good. Since he's won the title, he and his opponent have looked good in every match he's had so I really can't grasp the issue here.

I'm not being a dick but why exactly is he definitely better than those guys? He had a series of good matches with AJ styles but lets not go overboard now AJ could make almost anyone look good. His match with HHH was for me a boring stinker for example (although the latter part had a lot to do with how he is booked) and before that he was having terrible feuds with Big Show and Bray Wyatt.

Obviously this is just my opinion too but based on how the fans have rejected his mega push it would seem I am not alone in this opinion.

People I would rate ahead of roman in the ring:

Definitely: John Cena, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose (even if imo he isn't as good as he could be and the same could be said for his character), Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Cesaro, AJ Stylez, Alberto Del Rio, Apollo Crews, Neville, Chris Jericho, Orton, Luke Harper, Rusev, Sheamus, Bubba Dudley (could probably include a lot more if I was to include more individual tag wrestlers like Bubba & Harper), that said I would have Ziggler ahead of him easily myself although I'm not sure about Bray (similar level) but on the mic Bray is streets ahead, hmm....

People I would rate ahead of Roman on the mic: Cena, Owens, Rollins, Jericho, Ambrose, Bray Wyatt, Bubba Dudley, Enzo, New Day members, .... plenty more (although this is a failing for others on the roster) even Sheamo corny as feck as he can be but im getting lazy... I'd have Roman on a level just below Cesaro personally and promos are why WWE apparently are reluctant to push the Swiss Superman.


But then there are Looks or marketability however you wanna put it and thats the reason why Roman is a star and why they are willing to hope the rest comes with time. It's also why they haven't turned him heel up till now imo as they wanted him to be the next John Cena doing all the make a wish type stuff for them for example. Maybe now that they have even outed his wellness failing on TV they will change tact here even though just being a heel wouldn't solve everything as they really haven't helped him considering some of the terrible promos they wrote for him.

correction

There's no point in me going over individual wrestlers that I think he's better than because as you say, it's mostly opinion. I just wanted to get across that I feel there's no real reason to hate Reigns lately as I think he's delivered in the situations he's been in.

I'll say I didn't hate him pre Mania but I was carrying the same 'meh, just not really interested' type feeling that most had towards him and the stories he was in. Trying to book him as the underdog was a major mistake and did more long term damage than anything else I think. But I have to say, post Mania I do think he's done a fine job and the booking has even been OK (if unspectacular).

My overall point though is that I don't like when people legitimately think he can't wrestle when it's clear by the number of good matches he has that he can go in the ring. I find that WWE trained guys are generally capable of having good matches even if they're not the greatest technically or don't have a large move set. For example I notice Apollo Crews on your list of better in ring wrestlers and I would agree mostly because he can do almost anything but I have to say I'd be absolutely shocked if Crews could have as good a match with Styles as Reigns did.

Long term I am more than OK with Reigns being a main event guy, I dunno what will happen now on account of his suspension but I would be interested in him returning at Battleground and turning full heel.

Bounty Hunter

correction wrote: »

There's no point in me going over individual wrestlers that I think he's better than because as you say, it's mostly opinion. I just wanted to get across that I feel there's no real reason to hate Reigns lately as I think he's delivered in the situations he's been in.

I'll say I didn't hate him pre Mania but I was carrying the same 'meh, just not really interested' type feeling that most had towards him and the stories he was in. Trying to book him as the underdog was a major mistake and did more long term damage than anything else I think. But I have to say, post Mania I do think he's done a fine job and the booking has even been OK (if unspectacular).

My overall point though is that I don't like when people legitimately think he can't wrestle when it's clear by the number of good matches he has that he can go in the ring. I find that WWE trained guys are generally capable of having good matches even if they're not the greatest technically or don't have a large move set. For example I notice Apollo Crews on your list of better in ring wrestlers and I would agree mostly because he can do almost anything but I have to say I'd be absolutely shocked if Crews could have as good a match with Styles as Reigns did.

Long term I am more than OK with Reigns being a main event guy, I dunno what will happen now on account of his suspension but I would be interested in him returning at Battleground and turning full heel.

Obviously we have gone well off topic but (I actually agree with a lot of that) tbh It's Friday and Raw really didn't have all that many big talking points so I doubt this thread will be getting loads more discussion anyway... so on I go... :pac:

I would honestly love to see what those two could do in ring with each other if given enough time and really do think it could be much better than what what AJ/Reigns did if given the same opportunities (time contraints, use of announce tables etc) although Apollo like Roman hasn't won anyone over with his Mic skills or story lines yet either so people might not care too much about said match (much like many Roman matches in the past) until they potentially win em over around half way through.


I will be very annoyed if they don't bring him (Roman) back as a heel when his suspension is over. It won't fix everything as said but the biggest issue is how they continue to book him against the crowds desire and in many ways against his current ability (to win them over as a face esp when he is being pared with super over people like AJ and the other Shield alumni).

As Summerslam is one of the big PPV that will be dual branded I actually would have had him pulled from the Battleground main event on the last show as Rollins wanted. tease replacing him with AJ/Cena etc as was done but leave it a 1 on 1 and then when the suspension is over Reigns can interrupt the main event at Battleground in a big way leaving both Rollins and Ambrose out in the ring, making him look like a badass as the fans boo. Next night on Raw he goes full on heel and they book the triple threat for Summerslam which tbh is a better occasion for such a big match anyway.

martyos121

correction wrote: »

There's no point in me going over individual wrestlers that I think he's better than because as you say, it's mostly opinion. I just wanted to get across that I feel there's no real reason to hate Reigns lately as I think he's delivered in the situations he's been in.

I'll say I didn't hate him pre Mania but I was carrying the same 'meh, just not really interested' type feeling that most had towards him and the stories he was in. Trying to book him as the underdog was a major mistake and did more long term damage than anything else I think. But I have to say, post Mania I do think he's done a fine job and the booking has even been OK (if unspectacular).

My overall point though is that I don't like when people legitimately think he can't wrestle when it's clear by the number of good matches he has that he can go in the ring. I find that WWE trained guys are generally capable of having good matches even if they're not the greatest technically or don't have a large move set. For example I notice Apollo Crews on your list of better in ring wrestlers and I would agree mostly because he can do almost anything but I have to say I'd be absolutely shocked if Crews could have as good a match with Styles as Reigns did.

Long term I am more than OK with Reigns being a main event guy, I dunno what will happen now on account of his suspension but I would be interested in him returning at Battleground and turning full heel.

I think the case with many of us is that we don't actually hate Roman, we hate the people pushing him to the moon because it's an awful decision when there are guys on that roster more talented in every way that deserve it more. Nothing against Roman myself, he's proven already that he isn't a bad pro-wrestler (not every guy has to be a technical wrestling wizard to be good). He's pretty mediocre on the mic but he'll improve on that in time.

If they didn't go 100% behind him on this ridiculous push and let him get over on his own or turn him heel instead, there would be very little hate for the lad.