Euro 2016 - Round of 16 - England vs Iceland, 8 pm, RTE, ITV

Leroy42

Its not that the EPL is sh1t, although there is no doubt that it is overhyped.

There are plenty of good players in the EPL. The problem that England have is that very few of the main players in each club are English.

In the main, the English players are squad players, or decent 1st teamers that are steady. Henderson for example, no team should ever rely on him to drag them through. A decent player but not the type of player to make the difference. Sturridge could be that player but far too greedy and inconsistent.

Rooney used to be that player, good few years ago now. Sterling is looking like another Walcott, has the speed but very little end product.

Whatever about the historic failings of England, this one can be layed squarely at Roy's door. He didn't know either the system he wanted or the players. He brought too many players who simply were not on form. Sterling, Wiltshire! But overall most people seemed to be fairly happy with his squad. The problem seemed to be that Roy was more concerned with fitting the players on the pitch rather than adopting a system(s) to suit the game and selecting the best players for that.

How he can take Wiltshire off (correctly) for being terrible in the last game but then make him the 1st sub to chase the game? He drops Kane for the last game but puts him back in and then has him taking free-kicks and corners again?

Sterling was clearly struggling, whether that is long or short term is open for debate, but he was terrible in the 1st game and a half, yet suddenly he is back in from the start? Rooney was left on the pitch far too long. Even if you don't want to sub him, take Kane off, move Rooney forward and then have Dier and JW in midfield?

Kerrydude1981

SSN whinging now about the video of the Welsh players celebrating England being knocked out.

gucci

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Still can't understand why they left until the 85th minute to bring off Rooney, and why they waited until then to bring on Rashford...or anyone...it's very difficult to change a game in 5mins, never mind if you're a 17 yr old at your first championship

Rooney is only in the team / squad because of brand sponsorship.
They need to have a lad in the team that every Joe on the street knows who he is so they can sell Mars bars and jersies to people who dont watch football week in week out.

deaddonkey15

gucci wrote: »

Rooney is only in the team / squad because of brand sponsorship.
They need to have a lad in the team that every Joe on the street knows who he is so they can sell Mars bars and jersies to people who dont watch football week in week out.

What brands are these?

fryup

england players just haven't got the temperament simple as

patmac

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

SSN whinging now about the video of the Welsh players celebrating England being knocked out.

They are taking it well then. In fairness they showed the McClaren piece this morning, I'm not sure if his face dropped at the fact that Iceland scored or the fact that he realised he is going to be all over social media for all the wrong reasons again.

inforfun

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Barcelona received a transfer ban for signing young players like that illegally.

The FA should do the same with English clubs if they ever want to have some serious investment in English youth players.

But it has to come from the clubs, the Dutch FA is not pressuring any club in Holland to set up a decent youth academy, it is the clubs themselves doing it.
Even if a major part of them will be robbed from them by English clubs

And now stop with your "but they do it too".

deaddonkey15

inforfun wrote: »

The FA should do the same with English clubs if they ever want to have some serious investment in English youth players.

But it has to come from the clubs, the Dutch FA is not pressuring any club in Holland to set up a decent youth academy, it is the clubs themselves doing it.
Even if a major part of them will be robbed from them by English clubs

And now stop with your "but they do it too".

You mean stop highlighting the fact that your petty dig at Premier League clubs is something that all major clubs in Europe are responsible for? Barcelona's ban was handed to them by FIFA. There's plenty of good young English players coming through in the Premier League.

GavRedKing

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Barcelona received a transfer ban for signing young players like that illegally.

Off topic but Barcas ban isnt for just signing a raft of players to stock pile, they broke the following :

Players aged under 18 can move to a club in a different country if their parents move there for non-footballing reasons, if they are from another nation within the European Union or European Economic Area and aged between 16 and 18, or if they live within 100km of the club.

deaddonkey15

GavRedKing wrote: »

Off topic but Barcas ban isnt for just signing a raft of players to stock pile, they broke the following :

Yes that's my point. They are signing up plenty of young talent from abroad hoping that 1 or 2 might come good just like the English clubs are, yet they are not even doing it legally. It's not something that only English sides are guilty of.

LiamoSail

sheroman01 wrote: »

Why is he unlikeable?! I don't get this. I have found him to be quite likeable actually. Speaks well in interviews and seems down to earth. Of course he's going to be cocky on the pitch, it's what goalkeepers need and strive on. Yes, a bad Euros for him this year, but he's clearly still Englands best keeper and had a great season last season.

Clearly England's best keeper? He's been responsible for the winning goals in England's two defeats in France, and they've a very capable keeper sitting in the bench. FF should be starting for them

kfallon

LiamoSail wrote: »

Clearly England's best keeper? He's been responsible for the winning goals in England's two defeats in France, and they've a very capable keeper sitting in the bench. FF should be starting for them

Eh England were only beaten once in the tournament

sReq | uTeK

kfallon wrote: »

Eh England were only beaten once in the tournament

ah come on man, you know what he's saying. In short, Joe Hart is never too far away from a calamity or two

inforfun

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Yes that's my point. They are signing up plenty of young talent from abroad hoping that 1 or 2 might come good just like the English clubs are, yet they are not even doing it legally. It's not something that only English sides are guilty of.

I know that. Dutch sides sign foreigners too. But they actually improve when they sign for a Dutch team. It is a step up from the academies they came from.
Going from the youth academies of Ajax or Feyenoord to 1 in England is not a step up.

vidor

sheroman01 wrote: »

Why is he unlikeable?! I don't get this. I have found him to be quite likeable actually. Speaks well in interviews and seems down to earth.

farna_boy

Watching the match last night and reading this thread I found it hilarious that so many people were laying all the blame on Rooney.

Every time he got the ball there was zero movement ahead of him. In fact this applied to every time an English player tried to bring the ball out from the back.

Rooney did have a fairly horrendous match, but in fairness it's hard to make insightful passes forward when everyone ahead of you is being man marked and not one of them is making an attempt to get free or to run into space.

There is no question in my mind that England should have won that match. Man for man they have better players. But yet again egos, poor man management and zero mental preparation meant that they just came out thinking that they would stroll into the the quarter finals. You can even see the lack of focus during certain periods of the match.

If you look at the link below of Iceland's break in the 83rd minute, you will see the massive hole in defence because everyone is switched off (pause the clip at 82.53).

https://streamable.com/uuxb

It's also funny to see that the player who has the least game time and has the least fitness is the only one who managed to see the glaring hole in defence and track the Icelandic player back to try to put him off.

Hodgson is largely to blame for all of this. He didn't pick the right team and didn't prepare them at all. But some blame has to go to the players. If you can't get your head into the game and at least try to make some effort (e.g. move around and look for a pass) when you are playing for your country to get into the quarter finals of the Euros, you would have to question their attitude and commitment.

ERG89

inforfun wrote: »

English clubs dont give a **** about the national team. Rightly or wrongly.
They rather rob 15 year olds from Dutch clubs than to do some work themselves and bring on some English players.

They do it with more than Dutch tho. So much potential wasted lucky some escape like Denis Suarez and Pogba who would probably be at Brighton had he stayed. Look at all the crap Chelsea and City youth sides won & bar Iheanacho nobody got a chance. Sterling fair hit the ceiling too once he lined his pockets. Still tho let's give Zlatan 250k a week at 35 & spend a bomb on players like Mane or Xhaka who while good are not exactly top of their class. Their biggest worry now is how dead the pound will be to keep the charade going cause nobody would watch the premier league without the gargantuan influx of cash & only home grown players/owners/managers.
The state of their game is so bad one of the most qualified men for the vacancy was publically dancing on the touchline like a clown to laugh at a month ago.
Fair play to Iceland could do the basics better & if anyone doesn't think there was pressure on them too you're a fool

fryup

posted before the match....

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Iceland will win. Their style suits England. England and Rooney will pass the ball around aimlessly for the majority of the game and Iceland will stand off them with comfort. Iceland will score from a set piece.

well done you Mr Hillman, take a bow....now tell me how they're going to do against France so i can put a bet on

LiamoSail

kfallon wrote: »

Eh England were only beaten once in the tournament

Sorry, brain fart! I meant the bale free kick anyway

deaddonkey15

inforfun wrote: »

I know that. Dutch sides sign foreigners too. But they actually improve when they sign for a Dutch team. It is a step up from the academies they came from.
Going from the youth academies of Ajax or Feyenoord to 1 in England is not a step up.

It's a bit ironic that you are using the Dutch academy model as a stick to beat England with after getting knocked out of a competition that the Netherlands didn't even qualify for, by a side that beat the Netherlands home and away and finished ahead of them in the qualifying campaign.

deaddonkey15

vidor wrote: »

Ah yes, a 15 second heat of the moment clip is proof of what an unlikeable man Joe Harte is. Welcome to the internet.

deaddonkey15

farna_boy wrote: »

Watching the match last night and reading this thread I found it hilarious that so many people were laying all the blame on Rooney.

Every time he got the ball there was zero movement ahead of him. In fact this applied to every time an English player tried to bring the ball out from the back.

Rooney did have a fairly horrendous match, but in fairness it's hard to make insightful passes forward when everyone ahead of you is being man marked and not one of them is making an attempt to get free or to run into space.

There is no question in my mind that England should have won that match. Man for man they have better players. But yet again egos, poor man management and zero mental preparation meant that they just came out thinking that they would stroll into the the quarter finals. You can even see the lack of focus during certain periods of the match.

If you look at the link below of Iceland's break in the 83rd minute, you will see the massive hole in defence because everyone is switched off (pause the clip at 82.53).

https://streamable.com/uuxb

It's also funny to see that the player who has the least game time and has the least fitness is the only one who managed to see the glaring hole in defence and track the Icelandic player back to try to put him off.

Hodgson is largely to blame for all of this. He didn't pick the right team and didn't prepare them at all. But some blame has to go to the players. If you can't get your head into the game and at least try to make some effort (e.g. move around and look for a pass) when you are playing for your country to get into the quarter finals of the Euros, you would have to question their attitude and commitment.

Congratulations, you've probably written the most sensible and reasoned post in this entire thread. Most others are just cheap, ill-thought out digs.

inforfun

ERG89 wrote: »

They do it with more than Dutch tho. So much potential wasted lucky some escape like Denis Suarez and Pogba who would probably be at Brighton had he stayed. Look at all the crap Chelsea and City youth sides won & bar Iheanacho nobody got a chance. Sterling fair hit the ceiling too once he lined his pockets. Still tho let's give Zlatan 250k a week at 35 & spend a bomb on players like Mane or Xhaka who while good are not exactly top of their class. Their biggest worry now is how dead the pound will be to keep the charade going cause nobody would watch the premier league without the gargantuan influx of cash & only home grown players/owners/managers.
The state of their game is so bad one of the most qualified men for the vacancy was publically dancing on the touchline like a clown to laugh at a month ago.
Fair play to Iceland could do the basics better & if anyone doesn't think there was pressure on them too you're a fool

I know it is not just the Dutch teams getting robbed.
But it is a bit frustrating to see almost a full team of youngsters over the years piss off to England from the Feyenoord youth and the only reason is money. Because the ones that didnt go are doing a lot better now, carreerwise, than the ones that did go.

fryup

farna_boy wrote: »

It's also funny to see that the player who has the least game time and has the least fitness is the only one who managed to see the glaring hole in defence and track the Icelandic player back to try to put him off.

who's that player? can't make out the name

Shanotheslayer

fryup wrote: »

who's that player? can't make out the name

Least game time would have to be Wilshere?

inforfun

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's a bit ironic that you are using the Dutch academy model as a stick to beat England with after getting knocked out of a competition that the Netherlands didn't even qualify for, by a side that beat the Netherlands home and away and finished ahead of them in the qualifying campaign.

WC2010 and WC2014 already erased from your memory?

Back when we still had managers at the Dutch team instead of clowns.

Now, if ever failure of a team can be put to the manager, it is the Dutch team failing to qualify for this tournament.

vidor

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Ah yes, a 15 second heat of the moment clip is proof of what an unlikeable man Joe Harte is. Welcome to the internet.

Oh there's more out there, but that 15 seconds sums him up perfectly IMO. You can see it in the tunnel before games, and during the game he's not much different. There's a certain smugness about him that's irritating. Best example of this is v Pirlo a few years back, think he was pulling his usual facial expressions and shouting and what not, and then Pirlo shut him up. As the man himself said, "Hart looked very confident in himself, so I thought we had to bring him down a peg or two."

deaddonkey15

inforfun wrote: »

WC2010 and WC2014 already erased from your memory?

Back when we still had managers at the Dutch team instead of clowns.

Now, if ever failure of a team can be put to the manager, it is the Dutch team failing to qualify for this tournament.

2 years ago now. What have the great Dutch academies produced since? Not even a few players capable of beating Iceland by the looks of it. Seems to me the most high profile player to emerge was Memphis Depay. Looking at his stats and highlights in the Eridivisie, one would think he was a world beater. In my opinion he is, so far, one of the worst United signings I have ever seen. He has all the traits that people like to bash Sterling for, but in my opinion he is even more of a fraud.

deaddonkey15

vidor wrote: »

Oh there's more out there, but that 15 seconds sums him up perfectly IMO. You can see it in the tunnel before games, and during the game he's not much different. There's a certain smugness about him that's irritating. Best example of this is v Pirlo a few years back, think he was pulling his usual facial expressions and shouting and what not, and then Pirlo shut him up. As the man himself said, "Hart looked very confident in himself, so I thought we had to bring him down a peg or two."

I thought the Pirlo exchange would have been brought up. Let's be honest, we're all grown men I assume, it wasn't really a big deal was it? Hardly something to judge the man personally on. If you perceive some sort of smugness from Hart that you find irritating then that's your problem really. It's not really enough to pass judgement on the man's character.

inforfun

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

2 years ago now. What have the great Dutch academies produced since? Not even a few players capable of beating Iceland by the looks of it. Seems to me the most high profile player to emerge was Memphis Depay. Looking at his stats and highlights in the Eridivisie, one would think he was a world beater. In my opinion he is, so far, one of the worst United signings I have ever seen. He has all the traits that people like to bash Sterling for, but in my opinion he is even more of a fraud.

Yeah, I know that.
Already told you the failure to qualify is the manager at work.
You expect a complete new Dutch world class team every 2 years?

All i am saying, as long as the English clubs keep bringing in youth players from Europe, in order to **** them up a bit but can call them "home grown" after 3 years, the English national team will suffer.

66 English players Hodgson had to pick from in 2014 for the WC.

66.

Who do you think will make an impression sooner at a/EC/WC finals, Holland or England?
And i mean a good impression... Not one that has half the world on the floor laughing.

And keep in mind that i fully expect Holland to not qualify for Russia 2018 as long as Blind stays on.

vidor

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I thought the Pirlo exchange would have been brought up. Let's be honest, we're all grown men I assume, it wasn't really a big deal was it? Hardly something to judge the man personally on. If you perceive some sort of smugness from Hart that you find irritating then that's your problem really. It's not really enough to pass judgement on the man's character.

Grown men usually don't do what Hart did in that clip, granted they were losing and under pressure, but still. And it's not my problem at all, it's his problem. He was at fault yet again last night. It's as if he's too psyched up and it just leads to these silly mistakes. Or more likely he's just not as good as a lot of people think.

TheDoc

sheroman01 wrote: »

Why is he unlikeable?! I don't get this. I have found him to be quite likeable actually. Speaks well in interviews and seems down to earth. Of course he's going to be cocky on the pitch, it's what goalkeepers need and strive on. Yes, a bad Euros for him this year, but he's clearly still Englands best keeper and had a great season last season.

It's the same issues that plague England over and over. Their players buckling under pressure, but also their managers bottling the correct decisions.

Hart is outrageously over hyped and over rated. Incredibly. It's actually mental. He is not the best goalkeeper in that squad. Butland is young and new to the scene. But if he continues from the form he showed last season, he will have Hart on the bench pretty quickly.

And that is assuming Forster slows down his development and improvement.

He very clearly isn't Englands best keeper. There is good competition there, and either one of the three could have started and there have been no real issues. And the likelihood is that, in my opinion, Hart won't be #1 for the WC. all the talk is Pep wanting a new keeper ASAP, and this Euros is probably just hastening that decision.

Wilshere has no place in that squad. He was in the firing line the minute he made that call. Incredible decision to take him. And Hodgson tells in his statement how when he arrived players didn't want to show up. This is the sort of **** why. Players being picked in with absolutely no merit or right to be there.

The English fans taking their usual scapegoat. Sterling in the firing line, for having the audacity to tell some home truths that Liverpool weren't going to win anything under Rodgers, and moving to City to try win some stuff in his career. Now they have who was only a short while ago an exciting talent, flailing around clueless.

Playing a striker out on the right, in a knockout game, when you decide to NOT take the inform English right winger Andros Townsend. Take Jordan Henderson who has barely done anything in an England shirt, and leave Drinkwater at home. Consist with Harry Kane who is clearly out of form and not firing, and leave an inform young Marcus Rashford on the bench.

It's the same cycle over and over, tournament to tournament. Same mistakes every time. The same excuses then trotted out.

They need a proper big character, with some actual managerial ability to sort that mess out.

First thing one of the lads said in work this morning "If I was in the FA I'd be getting touch with Ferguson and giving him all the money in the world for two years work"

TheDoc

vidor wrote: »

Grown men usually don't do what Hart did in that clip, granted they were losing and under pressure, but still. And it's not my problem at all, it's his problem. He was at fault yet again last night. It's as if he's too psyched up and it just leads to these silly mistakes. Or more likely he's just not as good as a lot of people think.

He's not good. He's a slightly above average goalkeeper, who doesn't even rank in a Premier League top 5. It's incredible the reputation he has built, on what I simply do not know.

It will be more the other two keepers not developing as opposed to Hart being good, that will keep him as #1 for the WC.

His post match comments were already being parodied before the game was over, before half time even.

Well it will be fine when Joe holds his hands up afterwards, and tells us all about his pash-un

eagle eye

Had a good group of lads over for the England game last night and we started discussing the issue.

In the end there was agreement between a couple of us that one of the biggest problems is that England internationals are pampered and paid too much money.

I was talking about if you picked a team for the Euros without a lot of these 'stars' that you might have a better chance.

This is a team with a few players that might have less talent but you just know they will work hard and do their job all day. Carroll is there for a plan B, something that England could have done with last night.

---

Forster
Walker Smalling Shawcross Bertrand

---

Drinkwater---Noble
Townsend

---

Ali

---

Albrighton

---

Vardy
Butland, Cresswell, Stones, Dier, Barkley, Rashford, Carroll

deaddonkey15

inforfun wrote: »

Yeah, I know that.
Already told you the failure to qualify is the manager at work.
You expect a complete new Dutch world class team every 2 years?

All i am saying, as long as the English clubs keep bringing in youth players from Europe, in order to **** them up a bit but can call them "home grown" after 3 years, the English national team will suffer.

66 English players Hodgson had to pick from in 2014 for the WC.

66.

Who do you think will make an impression sooner at a/EC/WC finals, Holland or England?
And i mean a good impression... Not one that has half the world on the floor laughing.

And keep in mind that i fully expect Holland to not qualify for Russia 2018 as long as Blind stays on.

Netherlands fail to beat Iceland twice in qualifying and fail to qualify for the tournament - Manager's fault.

England qualify unbeaten and lose to an Iceland side that drew with Portugal and Hungary, who are also in the knockout stages and beat Austria who some tipped as dark horses for the tournament - Premier League and their clubs youth academies fault.

Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page there. You can claim half the world is laughing at England all you want, the result last night is still less embarrassing than the Netherlands showing in the qualifying campaign. I fully expect England to qualify for the world cup in 2018 and if I'm being honest I think the players currently at their disposal are better than what the Netherlands have and therefore I reckon this England side would make a good impression at a major tournament sooner than the Netherlands would.

Personally I think the management, media and general attitude of the public towards the English team and rival Premier League sides is to blame for their failures. England just aren't a tournament team.

Mec27

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Netherlands fail to beat Iceland twice in qualifying and fail to qualify for the tournament - Manager's fault.

England qualify unbeaten and lose to an Iceland side that drew with Portugal and Hungary, who are also in the knockout stages and beat Austria who some tipped as dark horses for the tournament - Premier League and their clubs youth academies fault.

Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page there. You can claim half the world is laughing at England all you want, the result last night is still less embarrassing than the Netherlands showing in the qualifying campaign. I fully expect England to qualify for the world cup in 2018 and if I'm being honest I think the players currently at their disposal are better than what the Netherlands have and therefore I reckon this England side would make a good impression at a major tournament sooner than the Netherlands would.

Personally I think the management, media and general attitude of the public towards the English team and rival Premier League sides is to blame for their failures. England just aren't a tournament team.

But also not good enough ability wise(but better than Iceland)

Omackeral

Neighbors....everybody needs good neighbors!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEM6ODg1hzA

deaddonkey15

vidor wrote: »

Grown men usually don't do what Hart did in that clip, granted they were losing and under pressure, but still. And it's not my problem at all, it's his problem. He was at fault yet again last night. It's as if he's too psyched up and it just leads to these silly mistakes. Or more likely he's just not as good as a lot of people think.

It's his problem that you think he looks cocky in the tunnel when you are watching on TV? Right. We've all seen the likes of Cantona, Keane, Suarez, Pepe and Zidane commit acts of assault on a football pitch, Hart making a few funny faces at Pirlo or swearing at a ball boy pales in comparison. I think Cantona, Keane and Zidane are fairly likable people though, and I'd say most would agree.

sReq | uTeK

eagle eye wrote: »

Had a good group of lads over for the England game last night and we started discussing the issue.

In the end there was agreement between a couple of us that one of the biggest problems is that England internationals are pampered and paid too much money.

I was talking about if you picked a team for the Euros without a lot of these 'stars' that you might have a better chance.

This is a team with a few players that might have less talent but you just know they will work hard and do their job all day. Carroll is there for a plan B, something that England could have done with last night.

---

Forster
Walker Smalling Shawcross Bertrand

---

Drinkwater---Noble
Townsend

---

Ali

---

Albrighton

---

Vardy
Butland, Cresswell, Stones, Dier, Barkley, Rashford, Carroll

I'd agree with you 100% I'd rather players who wear their heart on their sleeve every week than over priced players who have flattered to deceive on a number of occasions.

The problem in England is that it seems the Media and Pundits pick the team, there was a huge call for Rashford to get into the squad, now rightly or wrongly he shouldn't have gone. He's a young lad with a handful of appearances for United. Again Jack Wilshere is another, its mind boggling that he was brought in ahead of someone like Noble who has had a fantastic season with West Ham.

Until there is a manager strong enough to do his own thing, this english team will suffer.

Whilst LVG failed badly at United, his personality, arrogance and stubbornness is the exact trait the next English manager needs. If its another yes man, this scenario will repeat in 2 years time.

vicwatson

Omackeral wrote: »

Neighbors....everybody needs good neighbors!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEM6ODg1hzA

Neighbours.

And they decided to leave the EU with England, just like they'll be doing Friday night

ricero

Gary "the touch screen messiah" neville has had an awful year

inforfun

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Netherlands fail to beat Iceland twice in qualifying and fail to qualify for the tournament - Manager's fault.

England qualify unbeaten and lose to an Iceland side that drew with Portugal and Hungary, who are also in the knockout stages and beat Austria who some tipped as dark horses for the tournament - Premier League and their clubs youth academies fault.

Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page there. You can claim half the world is laughing at England all you want, the result last night is still less embarrassing than the Netherlands showing in the qualifying campaign. I fully expect England to qualify for the world cup in 2018 and if I'm being honest I think the players currently at their disposal are better than what the Netherlands have and therefore I reckon this England side would make a good impression at a major tournament sooner than the Netherlands would.

Personally I think the management, media and general attitude of the public towards the English team and rival Premier League sides is to blame for their failures. England just aren't a tournament team.

Van Gaal played 3-5-2 in 2014 and was successful in Brazil.

No said Blind/Hiddink, we go back to the "Dutch school" 4-3-3 and lose to Mexico (friendly) Czech Republic and Iceland (ECQ) and keep trying an out of date system without having the players for that system.
How is that not the managers fault?

The they pick a right back from the stands in Paris, hadnt played a match in 90 days to play against Iceland at home and Turkey away? 2 Must win games, win those and you are very much bak in business. Both lost due to personal mistake by said right back
How is that not the managers fault?

You go down to 10 at home to Iceland, a must win game and take off Huntelaar for a defender and shortly you go down 1-0 and have no centre forward anymore
How is that not the managers fault?

Whether Holland or England have the better players isnt really important. It is about having the better team.

England at the moment have a better manager though. Like in they dont have one and you are better off without one than having Danny Blind.

Iused2likebusts

Just watched the motd highlights there. England barely created a chance in the second half. Watching it live I was a lot more worried than I needed to be. Shearer got well stuck into them and rightly so. Not one word said about rooney which was strange.

vidor

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's his problem that you think he looks cocky in the tunnel when you are watching on TV? Right. We've all seen the likes of Cantona, Keane, Suarez, Pepe and Zidane commit acts of assault on a football pitch, Hart making a few funny faces at Pirlo or swearing at a ball boy pales in comparison. I think Cantona, Keane and Zidane are fairly likable people though, and I'd say most would agree.

Well it's his problem, but has been a problem for England and Man City and will continue to be. I can't imagine that brain-dead faux intensity schtick sitting well with Guardiola.

Mec27

inforfun wrote: »

Van Gaal played 3-5-2 in 2014 and was successful in Brazil.

No said Blind/Hiddink, we go back to the "Dutch school" 4-3-3 and lose to Mexico (friendly) Czech Republic and Iceland (ECQ) and keep trying an out of date system without having the players for that system.
How is that not the managers fault?

The they pick a right back from the stands in Paris, hadnt played a match in 90 days to play against Iceland at home and Turkey away? 2 Must win games, win those and you are very much bak in business. Both lost due to personal mistake by said right back
How is that not the managers fault?

You go down to 10 at home to Iceland, a must win game and take off Huntelaar for a defender and shortly you go down 1-0 and have no centre forward anymore
How is that not the managers fault?

Whether Holland or England have the better players isnt really important. It is about having the better team.

England at the moment have a better manager though. Like in they dont have one and you are better off without one than having Danny Blind.

Hodgson is a good manager, every player has said it about him. Who knows why they couldn't beat Iceland but they would have been beaten by France and if they hadn't it would have been an amazing accomplishment regardless what happened after that. They fail one hurdle too early, bad but not a disaster.

Mr. Farage

Mec27 wrote: »

Hodgson is a good manager, every player has said it about him. Who knows why they couldn't beat Iceland but they would have been beaten by France and if they hadn't it would have been an amazing accomplishment regardless what happened after that. They fail one hurdle too early, bad but not a disaster.

He's an awful manager I wouldn't heed a word the players say they just go with the flow. He would have had LFC relegated if allowed to continue his tenure there.

GavRedKing

After watching some of the highlights again, yes Hart is seriously at fault and his wrists are made of Weetabix for that goal, hes nowhere near good enough. Butland or Forester have to start for England in the near future or at least be allowed to compete with Hart who seems to be untouchable for England. I wouldnt be surprised if Guardiola gets rid of him either at City, if not this summer, probably next summer.

I also want to throw an awful lot of the blame for the 2nd goal on Cahill, watching him week in week out for a number of years at Chelsea, hes a really average CB, the fact he left the CF turn, shift the ball and shot before he even got near him was shocking to see. Cahill is meant to be the leader back there, hes older than any of the other players in the back 5 and he made a critical error allowing the CF to shot, he does it for Chelsea all the time, hes seems to be afraid to engage CFs incase they turn him, granted if the CFs name is Suarez or Aguero but if its the Icelandic CF, you should be doing much, much better IMO.

inforfun

Mec27 wrote: »

Hodgson is a good manager, every player has said it about him. Who knows why they couldn't beat Iceland but they would have been beaten by France and if they hadn't it would have been an amazing accomplishment regardless what happened after that. They fail one hurdle too early, bad but not a disaster.

Wouldn't expect players ripping him to shreds anyway.
Just like Shearer, Ferdinand and Jenas didnt touch Rooney. Too close to them. All 3 played with him at 1 point i think?

GavRedKing

Mec27 wrote: »

Hodgson is a good manager, every player has said it about him. Who knows why they couldn't beat Iceland but they would have been beaten by France and if they hadn't it would have been an amazing accomplishment regardless what happened after that. They fail one hurdle too early, bad but not a disaster.

Duff on RTE had good things to say about him as he gave him his debut and signed him for Fulham, that kind of stopped Didi and Dunphy from ripping the bo**ocks out of him.

While hes probably an ok manager, he must be given his 30 year career, hes tactically inept in the modern game and was afraid to make big calls, he doesnt strike me as an authority figure either who would have the side setup to dig in, grind out and match Icelands intensity in a game which they needed badly to do.

For contrast, look at Conte, his side winning 1-0 and he was losing his mind about passes going stray, Hodgson was like a man caught in the headlights and was on the bench for most of the night, if he cant get a performance from the players from the side line hes not going to be a leader on the training pitch either and it showed in England last night.

Theyve a talent core of players that are being wasted, they wouldnt win it but theyre certainly better, on paper, better than Iceland but if you allow that mentality in the camp it can fester and once England left in the equaliser about 2mins after they scored, they were done, no leaders anywhere.

Maireadio

Dempsey wrote: »

RTE are overhyping the shock of this.

Iceland are a good side and proved it again tonight. England were pathetic, no ideas and no leaders and Hodgson's decision making has cost him his job

The Beeb were the same on MOTD, it wasn't just RTÉ.