Euro 2016 - Round of 16 - England vs Iceland, 8 pm, RTE, ITV

Shanotheslayer

inforfun wrote: »

Wouldn't expect players ripping him to shreds anyway.
Just like Shearer, Ferdinand and Jenas didnt touch Rooney. Too close to them. All 3 played with him at 1 point i think?

Don't think Jenas/Shearer did? Unless it was literally 1 or 2 england appearences :pac:

Green Fella

Mec27 wrote: »

Why do people think Rooney is some sort of deep lying playmaker? I mean he can obviously pass the ball well but who the **** told him he was some sort of Toni Kroos type player?

I dont think he can pass the ball anymore based on what we seen last night. He had his head up and could see the passes but didnt have the ability to make them. It was like watching a non league player, he knew the pass was on but he had no ability to make them.

He should retire now if he has any dignity. I would never pick him for England ever again, its sad it ends like this because he was once a top player and is only 30 , but hes finished as a player. Stick a fork in him, hes done!

inforfun

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Don't think Jenas/Shearer did? Unless it was literally 1 or 2 england appearences :pac:

That is why i asked.
Not even sure they have been on the same pitch tbh.

Wouldnt be surprised they kept their hole shut because Ferdinand was there who did play a couple times with him iirc

ButtersSuki

I watched the MOTD highlights purely to hear what the panel would say. Re. Rooney, the only conclusion I could come to was that he's done a deal with BBC to be analyst for their International Football coverage post the Euros and therefore they wouldn't dare criticise him. This is complete speculation on my part btw. I don't know if they have or not and I can't be arsed googling, but there must be something. He was atrocious.

Joe_ Public

On the Rooney front, I do have some limited sympathy for Hodgson. A lot of those hammering Hodgson over Rooney weren't all that consistent in their analysis. They criticised him during the build-up when he insisted that Rooney would play a key role, then criticised him when he dropped him for Slovakia and have turned full circle again now that he was restored against Iceland. On that one, I don't think Hodgson could win regardless of what he did.

ButtersSuki

Joe_ Public wrote: »

On the Rooney front, I do have some limited sympathy for Hodgson. A lot of those hammering Hodgson over Rooney weren't all that consistent in their analysis. They criticised him during the build-up when he insisted that Rooney would play a key role, then criticised him when he dropped him for Slovakia and have turned full circle again now that he was restored against Iceland. On that one, I don't think Hodgson could win regardless of what he did.

Was he not rested for the Solvskia game rather than dropped As they were already through?

Pepe LeFrits

The buck stops with Hodgson. England's failure is on him.

Sure, England may have some issues with player development that need to be addressed and it does look like there is an issue with their mentality, but that's the manager's job to sort out. Hodgson has had years and England still don't know how they want to play. Look at Italy, they have far from their most talented group of players but they dumped out Spain. Their strike-force yesterday was a pair of journeyman strikers with 7 international goals between them. One of them a midtable Premier League player... but the Italians have an identity. They know who they are, they know what they're good at. They go out with a clear plan and they execute it. England had a group of 11 individuals out there last night trying to figure it out on the fly. A damning indictment of Hodgson tbh.

Joe_ Public

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Was he not rested for the Solvskia game rather than dropped As they were already through?

Yeah, I should have said rested, but point still stands. He was still hammered for it, because they still hadn't won the group.

Dirty Dingus McGee

TheDoc wrote: »

He's not good. He's a slightly above average goalkeeper, who doesn't even rank in a Premier League top 5. It's incredible the reputation he has built, on what I simply do not know.

It will be more the other two keepers not developing as opposed to Hart being good, that will keep him as #1 for the WC.

His post match comments were already being parodied before the game was over, before half time even.

Having no dandruff.

surripere

Hart's a tosser - always was - a big dick of a personality, overhyped & overrated.

deaddonkey15

surripere wrote: »

Hart's a tosser - always was - a big dick of a personality, overhyped & overrated.

You forgot to add that this is based purely on the fact that you don't quite like the look of him on the telly.

smileyj1987

kfallon wrote: »

Hoddle looked like he was gonna be a very good England manager until he had that brainfart and his position became untenable. They were very unlucky against Argentina in '98!

He was the last decent England manager in my eyes capello was a great manager but because he wasn't English it didn't go right at all for him. The players didn't seem to play at all for him.

Green Fella

eagle eye wrote: »

Had a good group of lads over for the England game last night and we started discussing the issue.

In the end there was agreement between a couple of us that one of the biggest problems is that England internationals are pampered and paid too much money.

I was talking about if you picked a team for the Euros without a lot of these 'stars' that you might have a better chance.

This is a team with a few players that might have less talent but you just know they will work hard and do their job all day. Carroll is there for a plan B, something that England could have done with last night.

---

Forster
Walker Smalling Shawcross Bertrand

---

Drinkwater---Noble
Townsend

---

Ali

---

Albrighton

---

Vardy
Butland, Cresswell, Stones, Dier, Barkley, Rashford, Carroll

Spot on post I totally agree.You could have an English Lower leagues XI out there and they would have performed better than last night.

The suits and the money men would never let that happen to brand England though. The likes of Rooney Sturridge Sterling Hart, will never be dropped and any England manager with the balls to do it would never be hired by the incompetent FA. Thats why another yes man Southgate is favourite

Some of those lads last night should never put on an England shirt again.

smileyj1987

What still shocks me is the lack of game time milner got he is one of the hardest working players you can get and has a goal or assist in him the fact players like sterling and wilshere played last night was shocking

Pepe LeFrits

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

The buck stops with Hodgson. England's failure is on him.

Sure, England may have some issues with player development that need to be addressed and it does look like there is an issue with their mentality, but that's the manager's job to sort out. Hodgson has had years and England still don't know how they want to play. Look at Italy, they have far from their most talented group of players but they dumped out Spain. Their strike-force yesterday was a pair of journeyman strikers with 7 international goals between them. One of them a midtable Premier League player... but the Italians have an identity. They know who they are, they know what they're good at. They go out with a clear plan and they execute it. England had a group of 11 individuals out there last night trying to figure it out on the fly. A damning indictment of Hodgson tbh.

It was the same with previous coaches and will be the same with the next coach. The fact of the matter is that their issues stem from the ground up.

SlickRic

Apparently, Roy Hodgson will now join Martin Glenn at the press conference in Chantilly.

if he answers some questions about his tenure, and the performance last night, I'll take back my 'coward' comments.

briany

I didn't think this was true when I heard it but, apparently, since 1966 England have only managed to win six knockout games.

derm0j073

SlickRic wrote: »

Apparently, Roy Hodgson will now join Martin Glenn at the press conference in Chantilly.
if he answers some questions about his tenure, and the performance last night, I'll take back my 'coward' comments.

I think he did the right thing last night, he was a dead man walking once the whistle blew. The media sh1t storm is gonna be big enough without speculation over his future. The tabloids will feel a little short changed not getting a witch hunt but feck them.

eagle eye

SlickRic wrote: »

Apparently, Roy Hodgson will now join Martin Glenn at the press conference in Chantilly.

if he answers some questions about his tenure, and the performance last night, I'll take back my 'coward' comments.

I thought he made a smart decision not to talk to them. There was nothing cowardly about resigning and making a statement. I think, if anything, he is being foolish now giving those vultures some answers.

They are going to hang him, they already did in this morning's papers. All he is going to do by appearing at a press conference is give them more quotes to use against him.

When he was at Liverpool his comments were sliced and diced to make him look bad. You can be sure the same thing is going to happen again now.

Dick phelan

While the manager was shocking and the best team wasn't picked it's not like England have any world beaters, I kept seeing people saying Barkley should have played, He was terrible at Everton this season i don't see the fuss in him not playing, They go on about young talents they have, A year ago Englands under 21s went out at the group stage of there Euros. If you break down Englands team they have an average keeper, no world class defenders, no world class MF player, they do have some very good attacking players but in truth very few of their players would even make Germany's squad let alone the first 11.

GavRedKing

briany wrote: »

I didn't think this was true when I heard it but, apparently, since 1966 England have only managed to win six knockout games.

Ya, they read out the list last night on RTE, they usually get out of the group no problem but then pull an Arsenal and get beat in the 1st knockout round.

They've managed to beat :

Paraguay - 86
Belgium - 90
Cameroon - 90
Spain - 96
Denmark - 02
Ecuador - 06

NoCrackHaving

Dick phelan wrote: »

While the manager was shocking and the best team wasn't picked it's not like England have any world beaters, I kept seeing people saying Barkley should have played, He was terrible at Everton this season i don't see the fuss in him not playing, They go on about young talents they have, A year ago Englands under 21s went out at the group stage of there Euros. If you break down Englands team they have an average keeper, no world class defenders, no world class MF player, they do have some very good attacking players but in truth very few of their players would even make Germany's squad let alone the first 11.

It's true, the English team are very average. Losing to Iceland is poor but this current English squad is distinctly run of the mill.

Mec27

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

It's true, the English team are very average. Losing to Iceland is poor but this current English squad is distinctly run of the mill.

Its only because we watch their league that we think of them as better than they are. Players like Walker, Rose, Cahill, Ali, Dier and Sterling don't cut it at the highest level. Ali might develop, I'll call it now, no England team will ever win anything with a player like Eric Dier in their team.

dfx-

briany wrote: »

I didn't think this was true when I heard it but, apparently, since 1966 England have only managed to win six knockout games.

Their record on ITV at tournaments is probably just as bad. I think Trinidad and Tobago (and possibly Ecuador?) is their only tournament win on ITV in ten years...

Pepe LeFrits

That stat basically says England lose at the QF stage a lot. Very useful.

Deleted User wrote: »

It was the same with previous coaches and will be the same with the next coach. The fact of the matter is that their issues stem from the ground up.

The results are the same, the problems vary.

Iused2likebusts

I guess no player carried that stupid teddy back onto the bus after last night's game

Mec27

People calling Hodgson a ''yes man'' What is it actually they want him to do different? Who could he have brought that would make a massive difference to their team? Danny Drinkwater? LOL Poor pool of players, I reckon Iceland benefit from having players dotted throughout Europe, it gives them a freshness and diversity in playing styles. England's and Irelands(although we equit ourselves well but its different because all we need to do is show effort and people are happy) reluctance to deviate from their anglo comfort zone is damaging imo.
For our players, and not to derail the thread but Dominic Foley said he felt no different going to England or Holland, both involved being away from home so it was much of a muchness.

RoryMac

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ya, they read out the list last night on RTE, they usually get out of the group no problem but then pull an Arsenal and get beat in the 1st knockout round.

They've managed to beat :

Paraguay - 86
Belgium - 90
Cameroon - 90
Spain - 96
Denmark - 02
Ecuador - 06

Should have lost to Cameroon in 90 too but Lineker dived for a peno

NoCrackHaving

Mec27 wrote: »

Its only because we watch their league that we think of them as better than they are. Players like Walker, Rose, Cahill, Ali, Dier and Sterling don't cut it at the highest level. Ali might develop, I'll call it now, no England team will ever win anything with a player like Eric Dier in their team.

I'm not sure would I call the EPL a poor league but I do wonder what proportion of 1st team players at the major English clubs are actually English, at Man City 3 out 22 of the 1st team squad are English, at United its 7 out of 22, Arsenal 7 , Liverpool a bit better at 8 while Chelsea have what - Terry and Cahill and then a few hangers on.

If the top English clubs aren't exactly chock a block with English players the national side isn't going t be much better.

Nerdlingr

Said it in the other thread but Roy picked his squad on name alone and got his just rewards (Wilshere? Sterling? Barkley?). Until England start picking players on their form and who actually deserves a place in the squad they'll keep on coming up short. They've no-one to blame but themselves... sticking by Hart after the Wales game? Crazy. 4 years in and he still didn't know his best team, or what formation to play. Delighted for Iceland.

RoryMac

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

I'm not sure would I call the EPL a poor league but I do wonder what proportion of 1st team players at the major English clubs are actually English, at Man City 3 out 22 of the 1st team squad are English, at United its 7 out of 22, Arsenal 7 , Liverpool a bit better at 8 while Chelsea have what - Terry and Cahill and then a few hangers on.

If the top English clubs aren't exactly chock a block with English players the national side isn't going t be much better.

I read this article at the start of the season which gives the number of English players starting EPL games that weekend as 73 or 33%. The thing that struck me reading it was that approx 1 in 3 of English players playing in the EPL would then make the English squad. Once you rule out some of the limited players(for example 8 of the 73 played for Bournemouth) it doesn't leave a lot to choose from.

It's something the FA need to tackle but convincing the clubs is going to be extremely difficult

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/number-english-players-starting-line-6231945#mrjrWQZRWK0YTlua.97

elefant

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Said it in the other thread but Roy picked his squad on name alone and got his just rewards (Wilshere? Sterling? Barkley?). Until England start picking players on their form and who actually deserves a place in the squad they'll keep on coming up short. They've no-one to blame but themselves... sticking by Hart after the Wales game? Crazy. 4 years in and he still didn't know his best team, or what formation to play. Delighted for Iceland.

I agree. But others on this thread have said the exact opposite : he picked flavour of the month ahead of hardened internationals.

Seems like Roy was going to be lambasted for squad selection regardless if the team didn't perform. Hindsight!

Leroy42

Its not really the top clubs that are the problem. The lower tier teams are offering far more money to average UKplayers then can get abroad and so, rightly, the players are happy to stay at home. UK players need to get out to different leagues, they need to get a taste of other cultures, training techniques etc. They are always waiting for players/coaches to come to them.

Rather than letting Jack Rodwell, for example, sit on the bench at City, they should be looking to get him a loan move over to another league, even if they think it is less quality. Let those players experience the dutch league, the German 2nd Division etc.

They should also be trying to get their coaches inserted in foreign leagues. Send a few out to South America, Spain, Germany. Paid, in part by FA. Hands on experience of the way things are done in different countries.

Gareth Southgate was on to something when he said that players such as Sterling should spend more time with the U21's to get playing experience in international tournaments, rather than move up to senior level to sit on the bench. I know Sterling plays, but he has missed out on the learning experience of dealing with pressure and penalties in a tournament setting until he meets it with England senior team.

Mars Bar

I kind of like Roy in that his cluelessness gives me hope that even I could make a high-profile, high-earning career in the game and knowing **** all.

Leroy42

elefant wrote: »

I agree. But others on this thread have said the exact opposite : he picked flavour of the month ahead of hardened internationals.

Seems like Roy was going to be lambasted for squad selection regardless if the team didn't perform. Hindsight!

I'm not sure that is correct. Apart from maybe Townsend and Wiltshere that wasn't really much contentious in the squad, very few that others wouldn't have picked.

The failure came from Roy seemingly having no actual plan of what to do with the players. So far from him arriving at roughly the same team as everyone else, it seems he simply went with the consensus.

Once he got them he didn't really know what to do with them, and seemed to be picked formations in order to get the players on the pitch rather than formations that suited the players or even suited the game.

For all the talk of EPL, winter breaks, lack of world class talent, paid too much etc etc, this one comes down to the manager. Of course a new manager won't sure all the ills, but any decent manager would have got this team to be 1st in the group and into the qtrs as a minimum.

Rothko

vicwatson wrote: »

Neighbours.

And they decided to leave the EU with England, just like they'll be doing Friday night

You do know that they beat Belgium in the qualifiers, right?

Rothko

Missed the highlights on MOTD last night. Anyone know where I could see them?

Rezident

Why is england so out of touch with reality? Smaller team beats bigger team by one goal, thats football.

Or END OF THE WORLD FOR ENGLAND! Blame the goalkeeper, sack the manager, defenestrate the players. Reading the reports on the bbc they sound like either the petulant cries of a five year old that didnt get what it wanted for christmas or the unhinged ravings of a madman. And that's the BBC! What on earth are the sun and daily mail like!? Im afraid to look.

And of course zero credit to iceland as usual, its all anout england.

Rothko

Rezident wrote: »

Why is england so out of touch with reality? Smaller team beats bigger team by one goal, thats football.

Or END OF THE WORLD FOR ENGLAND! Blame the goalkeeper, sack the manager, defenestrate the players. Reading the reports on the bbc they sound like either the petulant cries of a five year old that didnt get what it wanted for christmas or the unhinged ravings of a madman. And that's the BBC! What on earth are the sun and daily mail like!? Im afraid to look.

And of course zero credit to iceland as usual, its all anout england.

Ah, now there's a word that should be used more often.

fyfe79

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ya, they read out the list last night on RTE, they usually get out of the group no problem but then pull an Arsenal and get beat in the 1st knockout round.

They've managed to beat :

Paraguay - 86
Belgium - 90
Cameroon - 90
Spain - 96
Denmark - 02
Ecuador - 06

Spain in '96 was on penalties if I recall correctly. That's officially a draw. So it's only 5 wins since 1966 in the knock-out rounds.

SlickRic

i hope with all of my being that this is true.

smileyj1987

^^ if that's true I'm glad they where beaten

Shanotheslayer

It seems belivable right up until the Harry Kane. There is no way that's true.

Unearthly

He denied it on twitter and said the players were very respectful

fryup

i don't think england were complacent last night, they just panicked and choked

Dick phelan

Thinking about it again it's really disgraceful from those English players, Rooney is on 300k a week and captain and he was unable to hit 5 yard passes, When you consider the money some of those idiots are paid they deserve every bit of abuse for that gutless display. I wouldn't say this often but those players are a disgrace to their country.

~Rebel~

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

The buck stops with Hodgson. England's failure is on him.

Sure, England may have some issues with player development that need to be addressed and it does look like there is an issue with their mentality, but that's the manager's job to sort out. Hodgson has had years and England still don't know how they want to play. Look at Italy, they have far from their most talented group of players but they dumped out Spain. Their strike-force yesterday was a pair of journeyman strikers with 7 international goals between them. One of them a midtable Premier League player... but the Italians have an identity. They know who they are, they know what they're good at. They go out with a clear plan and they execute it. England had a group of 11 individuals out there last night trying to figure it out on the fly. A damning indictment of Hodgson tbh.

This is it in a nutshell for me.

They played like a team with no instruction, exactly how they played the other games. No attempt to actually use their technical advantage to play through the opposition, instead it was the same lofted balls, and shots smashed into a crowd of bodies - exactly the type of defending a limited bunch of players would be delighted to deal with all day long.

Iceland's second goal - that's the type of football England should have been trying to play. Intricate quick one touch passing to move between the lines, but that requires your team to really be on the same wavelength, and they just weren't.

Strong Life in Dublin

SlickRic wrote: »

i hope with all of my being that this is true.

Lol a picture with some text... Must be true

deaddonkey15

Rezident wrote: »

Why is england so out of touch with reality? Smaller team beats bigger team by one goal, thats football.

Or END OF THE WORLD FOR ENGLAND! Blame the goalkeeper, sack the manager, defenestrate the players. Reading the reports on the bbc they sound like either the petulant cries of a five year old that didnt get what it wanted for christmas or the unhinged ravings of a madman. And that's the BBC! What on earth are the sun and daily mail like!? Im afraid to look.

And of course zero credit to iceland as usual, its all anout england.

That's also pretty much the attitude in this thread from what I assume are mainly Irish posters.

Unearthly wrote: »

He denied it on twitter and said the players were very respectful

That doesn't matter though because it doesn't suit the narrative that people (including some posters here) want to believe based on what they see on the television. The reality is, even if it's untrue it's written in quotation marks over a picture of the person who allegedly said it so by internet standards it's as good as fact.

Dick phelan wrote: »

Thinking about it again it's really disgraceful from those English players, Rooney is on 300k a week and captain and he was unable to hit 5 yard passes, When you consider the money some of those idiots are paid they deserve every bit of abuse for that gutless display. I wouldn't say this often but those players are a disgrace to their country.

Watch the match again, Rooney completed a 5 yard or more pass on several occasions. Why does losing a football match to a decent team make them idiots? I would argue that the English fans in France this summer, rags like the sun, and the racist/bigoted/ill-informed that just voted their country's future into the gutter last week are a bigger disgrace to England than the football team is.

Green Fella

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Watch the match again, Rooney completed a 5 yard or more pass on several occasions. Why does losing a football match to a decent team make them idiots? I would argue that the English fans in France this summer, rags like the sun, and the racist/bigoted/ill-informed that just voted their country's future into the gutter last week are a bigger disgrace to England than the football team is.

Why does wanting to leave European Union make someone a racist or a bigot or an idiot? Absolute nonsense ! The agendas and narrative by Irish people on Brexit is ridiculous! You are the only idiot here!

And you defend Wayne Rooneys passing as well!?? Dear oh dear!