Roy Hodgson Has Resigned - Next England Manager Thread

BorneTobyWilde

Keep changing players, team never has a settled team going into tournaments. Big Sam, it's almost as funny a Man U appointment their 3rd not football playing manager since Alex left. And reason other managers failed, they way they play.
Big Sam is a funny choice. It's a huge step back, football has moved on from his simplistic football brain.

Drumpot

http://youtu.be/mwAygb82m1Y

Some of big Sams best clips.

delaad

Should be fun. First English culchie to get the job. Things are looking up for the 3 lions.

Paully D

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Really hope he does well. At the very least the likes of Noble and Cresswell, who were criminally overlooked under Hodgson, will get the chance they deserve.

I'll actually be very interested to see if they do.

Noble for example is someone that Allardyce has talked up lots and lots for England during his time at West Ham. However, it's a different story between talking up your own club players and selecting them as England manager when you have a large pool of players playing at the top clubs to select.

It'll be an intriguing case study as Allardyce is certainly not a yes man and he'd be someone I would say won't be afraid to make unpopular decisions in terms of team selection, but I still suspect it will prove once and for all that 1) club managers talking up their players for England are just blowing smoke and 2) linked to poing 1, when managers take the England job, they'll continue to select so-called top players and won't take risks with the so-called lesser players, even those that they have managed and raved about in the recent past as per point 1, due to the pressure of the role.

If Allardyce doesn't revert from the norm, then no one will.

eagle eye

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Keep changing players, team never has a settled team going into tournaments. Big Sam, it's almost as funny a Man U appointment their 3rd not football playing manager since Alex left. And reason other managers failed, they way they play.
Big Sam is a funny choice. It's a huge step back, football has moved on from his simplistic football brain.

This shows you haven't a clue what you are talking about. I wouldn't mind but if you read posts in this thread you'd know a bit so it's clear you are one of those that just comes on to give your uneducated opinion and doesn't bother to read what anybody else has to say.

NukaCola

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Really hope he does well. At the very least the likes of Noble and Cresswell, who were criminally overlooked under Hodgson, will get the chance they deserve.

Yea, just what England need, more mediocrity.....

Dempsey

NukaCola wrote: »

Yea, just what England need, more mediocrity.....

They need team players. None of Hodgsons players were willing to sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of the team.

aidan24326

JPA wrote: »

Oh my. They think this is the answer to Hodgson? He's an average manager with an average career taking over a team with expectations he's never experienced. He's not a bad manager but he's not going to achieve much more than what went before.

Would any manager though? Even the high-profile Capello couldn't do much with England so going for a top foreign manager isn't always the magic solution either. Maybe the England fans will finally realise that they're just not very good, and lower expectations accordingly.

BorneTobyWilde

eagle eye wrote: »

This shows you haven't a clue what you are talking about. I wouldn't mind but if you read posts in this thread you'd know a bit so it's clear you are one of those that just comes on to give your uneducated opinion and doesn't bother to read what anybody else has to say.

I'm very educated on the ways of Sam Allardyce. A man who was taken to one side by owners of West Ham and told to change his tactics and style or to clear his desk.

AllGunsBlazing

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sam Allardyce will take no **** from the players and install some tactical discipline as well.

All well and good to say that, but it's not like he can banish any of them to the reserves if he doesn't like what he's seeing.

Will be interesting to see if anyone of the older set call it a day.

Dirty Dingus McGee

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

All well and good to say that, but it's not like he can banish any of them to the reserves if he doesn't like what he's seeing.

Will be interesting to see if anyone of the older set call it a day.

He can drop them from the squad though.I'd imagine it would have a similar effect.

AllGunsBlazing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He can drop them from the squad though.I'd imagine it would have a similar effect.

Just so long as he has at least an equal player to step in. Depth of quality is not something England are exactly blessed with right now. If he decides to go full on authoritarian it could very easily backfire.

Don't think he will though, he's not the greatest footballing brain - but he's not foolish either. I dare say he knows how to stay onside with big names and egos. He certainly had his fair share at Bolton.

delaad

delaad wrote: »

Should be fun. First English culchie to get the job. Things are looking up for the 3 lions.

The likes of Revie and Graham Taylor were hardly sophisticated urban types...

Lovely Bloke

Is an "English Culchie" someone from oop north?

Or what?

McLaren is from Yorkshire, hardly the bastion of elegant stylishness.

Allardyce himself is from the midlands

Bobby Robson was from Durham, up there beside Newcastle.

Fair enough, Hodgson is from the Home Counties, Hoddle from Londan and El Tel is about as cockney as it gets.

Beefy78

aidan24326 wrote: »

Maybe the England fans will finally realise that they're just not very good, and lower expectations accordingly.

This nonsense again? No one needs to tell England fans how good or bad England are. We have to watch them.

I've never met a single England fan with this much-vaunted belief that we're entitled to win anything. The two semi final sides in my lifetime are utterly revered.

Expectations throughout my lifetime have been that England should be a last eight-level team. Teams who have fallen short of that have tended to be deemed as failure (1998 possibly aside), the two teams that went beyond that are considered Gods. For a country the size of England where there is only one sport of any real size or level of public interest that is hardly a crippling level of expectation.

Beefy78

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Will be interesting to see if anyone of the older set call it a day.

There's only one member of the "older set" around - Wayne Rooney and I think Jose Mourinho holds more sway over what his England career looks like from here.

Cahill is over 30 but is hardly a part of the entrenched England establishment. Then you've got Joe Hart. It is a very young squad.

That_Guy

Listening to 5 Live last night. Absolutely hilarious. They had Tony Barrett on and an irate Newcastle fan.

I'm paraphrasing but the conversation went something like this:

Newcastle fan: Allardyce wasn't Ashley's man and attendances were dwindling because of his style of play.

Barrett: I'm telling you that he's changed and is a good manager.

Newcastle fan: What has he achieved? Barely keeping teams in the Premier League? We had one of our worst seasons ever last year and only managed to finish a point above us.

Barrett: He'll have young hungry players at his disposal at England.

Newcastle fan: Would you have him at Liverpool?

Barrett: Well, eh....

Host: Well, Newcastle fan, we'll have to let you go, we've other callers to get to.

:pac:

super_furry

The FA are so blindly insular that they get the mediocrity they deserve. McLaren, Hodgson and now Allardyce, all managers who never won anything of note but got the job because they were born there.

Iused2likebusts

The thing is if Sunderland had picked up 3 pts less last season. Allarydyce wouldn't even be under consideration. The margins in football are so small.

Beefy78

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The thing is if Sunderland had picked up 3 pts less last season. Allarydyce wouldn't even be under consideration. The margins in football are so small.

More pertinently had Newcastle picked up three points more. Allardyce and Sunderland could have done everything that they did do in that second half of the season and circumstances beyond their control could have relegated them.

Talisman

super_furry wrote: »

The FA are so blindly insular that they get the mediocrity they deserve. McLaren, Hodgson and now Allardyce, all managers who never won anything of note but got the job because they were born there.

What do you consider of note? The domestic league has been dominated by Man Utd and the big money duo of Chelsea and Man City.

McLaren won the Dutch Eredivisie league title with FC Twente - a domestic league that has been dominated by Ajax and PSV since the 1960s.

Francie Barrett

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bassett:_England_Manager

Mike Bassett: England Manager is a 2001 futuristic football film based on what would happen if Sam Allardyce was given the England Manager job. satirical comedy film directed by Steve Barron, following the fortunes of the manager of Premier League club Sunderland FC, Sam Allardyce, who having led his side to Premier League survival ', is appointed England manager. It received mixed reviews.[2]

Sam Allardyce is about the worst appointment that England could have made. This will all end in tears. Again.

Kerrydude1981

I think the worst thing about Sam Allardyce getting the job will be listening to the likes of Redknapp and Merson talking about him,

Big Sam this,Big Sam that

On SSN this morning they were calling him Mr Big

Hammer Archer

Skylinehead wrote: »

How was Cresswell "criminally overlooked"? Don't get me wrong, good player, but they have him, Shaw, Baines, Bertrand and Rose. All very good left-backs, someone has to give way.

All the players you mentioned were given a shot under Hodgson. Cresswell wasn't even given a chance, despite arguably having a better season than most of the others. That's why I say he was criminally overlooked. If he was given game time in a group that England strolled through and didn't impress, then fine. But he never even got that chance.

NukaCola wrote: »

Yea, just what England need, more mediocrity.....

Because Hodgson's tactic of simply picking Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd players worked wonders, didn't it? Jack Wilshere had less than two club games last season yet somehow merited a place in the squad. Lallana, Henderson, Sterling etc. had average seasons yet were picked. Noble captained West Ham to their best season (points wise) in the Premier League, had his best ever season and would kill to play for England. I feel if England had more of those types of players, they'd be doing a hell of a lot better in major tournaments.

Hammer Archer

Francie Barrett wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bassett:_England_Manager

Sam Allardyce is about the worst appointment that England could have made. This will all end in tears. Again.

Didn't England make the World Cup semi finals in Mike Bassett: England Manager? Bit of a stupid way to lay into Allardyce then, isn't it?

Francie Barrett

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Didn't England make the World Cup semi finals in Mike Bassett: England Manager? Bit of a stupid way to lay into Allardyce then, isn't it?

cj maxx

Hammer Archer wrote: »

All the players you mentioned were given a shot under Hodgson. Cresswell wasn't even given a chance, despite arguably having a better season than most of the others. That's why I say he was criminally overlooked. If he was given game time in a group that England strolled through and didn't impress, then fine. But he never even got that chance.


Because Hodgson's tactic of simply picking Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd players worked wonders, didn't it? Jack Wilshere had less than two club games last season yet somehow merited a place in the squad. Lallana, Henderson, Sterling etc. had average seasons yet were picked. Noble captained West Ham to their best season (points wise) in the Premier League, had his best ever season and would kill to play for England. I feel if England had more of those types of players, they'd be doing a hell of a lot better in major tournaments.

Your last point , i think , will be sorted under alderace. I dont see him picking players based solely on their clubs and their 'status'

Francie Barrett

cjmc wrote: »

Your last point , i think , will be sorted under alderace. I dont see him picking players based solely on their clubs and their 'status'

Maybe Kevin Nolan will finally get his call up! :pac:

Hammer Archer

Francie Barrett wrote: »

What's confusing?
Whoever made the Wikipedia edit obviously did so to joke about Allardyce getting the England job while forgetting that, in the movie, England made the semi finals with Mike Bassett as manager. Regardless of how Sam manages England and how England fans see him now, they'd snap your hand off if that were to happen in two years time :pac:

mansize

Hammer Archer wrote: »

What's confusing?
Whoever made the Wikipedia edit obviously did so to joke about Allardyce getting the England job while forgetting that, in the movie, England made the semi finals with Mike Bassett as manager. Regardless of how Sam manages England and how England fans see him now, they'd snap your hand off if that were to happen in two years time :pac:

It won't.

Sand

mansize wrote: »

It won't.

They said that in the movie too.

fryup

Sam Allerdyce :rolleyes:

here we go again, will they ever learn??

Sand

fryup wrote: »

Sam Allerdyce :rolleyes:

here we go again, will they ever learn??

Honestly who else should they get? The list of candidates was not exactly brimming with the best managerial talent in the world. Hes a competent experienced manager who wants the job. There's very few managers out there who tick those boxes for them.

The likes of Iceland delivered some very competent performances being marshalled by a part timer and Portugal just won Euro 2016 with a manager no one ever heard of. If Allardyce can manage to pick players on merit and impose a clear plan he can motivate the players to carry out then he'll be an improvement on what has gone before.

aidan24326

Beefy78 wrote: »

This nonsense again? No one needs to tell England fans how good or bad England are. We have to watch them.

I've never met a single England fan with this much-vaunted belief that we're entitled to win anything. The two semi final sides in my lifetime are utterly revered.

Expectations throughout my lifetime have been that England should be a last eight-level team. Teams who have fallen short of that have tended to be deemed as failure (1998 possibly aside), the two teams that went beyond that are considered Gods. For a country the size of England where there is only one sport of any real size or level of public interest that is hardly a crippling level of expectation.

Fair enough I probably should have said the media rather than the fans. The hype this Summer had eased off noticeably from previous tournaments though. The players went into the Euro finals this time around with no massive pressure or expectation on them yet they flopped badly which is hard to fathom. Is Hodgson just a really poor manager? Daniel Agger certainly doesn't speak too highly of him.

Personally I think Allardyce could do a decent job but imho England need to stop handing out caps to every tom dick and harry and every flavour of the month player and work with a more settled squad who can be developed over time.

Dempsey

I think some people cant seperate the limitations and failures of a club from what a manager has to do on a day to day basis.

He does well consistently considering the players and setups he's had

Mr.Nice Guy

I think it will end in tears too.

They have spent the best part of ten years cultivating a change in the old style of traditional English football - from direct to a more technical, methodical style.

They have completely undermined that by bringing in a coach whose record has been built upon the type of football that they have been seeking to distance themselves from. Allardyce does this type of game well - very well, in fact - but what's the point in inculcating in youngsters a philosophy of keeping the ball on the deck, being comfortable in possession, and then going for a manager who is synonymous with long ball football and big target men? How do these two philosophies live harmoniously? I don't think they will.

I suspect they will likely qualify as group winners for the World Cup but can anyone imagine a Big Sam team breaking down a stubborn Italian side in a World Cup quarter-final?

I can see their press cosying up to him and it being all smiles in the early days - but when the tournament starts they will scrutinize everything to an obsessive degree, waiting for their moment to savage him. And I think they will.

They should have went all out for Wenger imo.

Sand

aidan24326 wrote: »

Fair enough I probably should have said the media rather than the fans. The hype this Summer had eased off noticeably from previous tournaments though. The players went into the Euro finals this time around with no massive pressure or expectation on them yet they flopped badly which is hard to fathom. Is Hodgson just a really poor manager?

In fairness, I cant remember the last time even the English media were hyping up the English team. People are thinking back to the 1990s. They were humiliated by Iceland in 2016, picked up a single point in WC 2014, did respectably in 2012, finished second in a really weak group at WC 2010 and were crushed by Germany in the round of 16 and so on and so on. They are consistently a very average side with resources they don't seem willingly or able to use. The English media are satisfied if they get out of the group - the only issue with the Iceland defeat was that it was Iceland.

The only thing that's objectionable about the English media is how every exit is met with an inquest and the answers cycle: foreign manager vs. English manager, 4-4-2 vs. new fangled 4-3-3, not enough technique vs. not enough heart. It becomes some existential crisis every 4-6 years where England tries to re-engineer who and what they are as a team.

In my view, its as simple as Hodgson making a lot of mistakes and getting punished for it by poor performances and results.

AllGunsBlazing

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I suspect they will likely qualify as group winners for the World Cup but can anyone imagine a Big Sam team breaking down a stubborn Italian side in a World Cup quarter-final?

World Cup qualification and ultimately eliminated in the quarterfinals by Italy?

I'm pretty sure the FA would have your hand clean off if you were to offer that to them - especially after the summer they just had.

dfx-

Like-for-like replacement pretty much. Changing a manager who excelled in defensive discipline and organisation but couldn't handle or inspire an imbalanced attacking young squad and still not being able to drop 'proven' players in his eyes for a manager who...is the same.

Unbelievable that they've reacted this badly to being out-organised by Iceland. England need a manager who knows what to do with all the pacy wingers and strikers to help them break open a defence which they had a chronic problem with at the tournament. England started games well and faded away as the players gradually lost their way and Hodgson offered them no help (or no subs even in the Iceland game).

What attacking inspiration can Allardyce give them...

RedemptionZ

Why don't England try to play really negative football? They have the players in the squad to be a very negative, boring counter attacking team that have players up front with pace and or physicality to score. Their defense is much better than ours and we're quite solid as a back four unit imo.

Why do they try to attack teams tournament after tournament, they don't have the players, probably will won't have the players for a long time given their flaws in their academies and lack of English talent coming through in key positions, so why not accept your limitations and play like Ireland? Surely they would get better results? No reason they can't be as organised as we are and they're more likely to have cohesive counter attacks.

Beefy78

I think Hodgson really wanted England to be a counter-attacking team, breaking teams down, hitting them with pace and having 30% possession. Had we beaten Iceland I'm fairly sure that's how he'd have approached a game with France and then potentially Germany.

Unfortunately, when you play Russia, Wales, Slovakia and Iceland you're going to get the majority of the ball and the emphasis will be on you to have to break the opposition down. And in four games in the Euros I didn't see any real tactic or idea how to do that. I was pretty supportive of Hodgson after Brazil but this summer was horrific. It just looked like he sent 11 decent players out there with the ball and told them to knock it around a bit.

Bruce to sneak in the back door?

Big Sam confirmed as England manager!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/07/22/sam-allardyce-appointed-england-manager-on-two-year-deal-fa-conf/

Paully D

The Express reporting that Sunderland managed to get £3.5m in compensation for Allardyce. Considering he had a year left on his deal, that's very good business from the club.

However, if we get off to a slow start this season you'd wonder if Short will regret not just paying him off and getting Moyes in when it became apparent a couple of weeks ago that Allardyce was very likely to get the job. Those extra 2 weeks would have been the difference between Moyes having over a month to work with the squad, get his ideas across and strengthen the side in the transfer market as opposed to having what looks like being less than 20 days before an awfully tough start to the season.

Kirby

I'd say guardiola is devastated. He was so looking forward to playing against "the big Sam".

enzo roco

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think it will end in tears too.

........
They should have went all out for Wenger imo.

Its England, It will end in tears no matter who is in charge.

Andersonisgod

How disheartening a transfer for all those coaches up and down England who go out of their way to teach kids about technique and "the right way of playing" only to be betrayed by the FA. How disheartening for those small kids who rely more on technique and smarts over brawn and athleticism, the message from the FACT is clear, there's no place for you here.

The senior national team is about more than just trophies and results, it provides role models and ideals for kids of that country to look up to. Some countries, even when things aren't going well, stick to their principles. England have gone out and hired a long ball merchant, and with that they are saying, forget all this St.George's Park nonsense, unless you look like Andy Carroll or run like Walcott then you haven't a hope.

dfx-

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Why don't England try to play really negative football? They have the players in the squad to be a very negative, boring counter attacking team that have players up front with pace and or physicality to score. Their defense is much better than ours and we're quite solid as a back four unit imo.

Why do they try to attack teams tournament after tournament, they don't have the players, probably will won't have the players for a long time given their flaws in their academies and lack of English talent coming through in key positions, so why not accept your limitations and play like Ireland? Surely they would get better results? No reason they can't be as organised as we are and they're more likely to have cohesive counter attacks.

Their squad is imbalanced towards attacking players, so it makes sense to attack with them. Yet you need to know how...perhaps even have the necessary tournament experience from youth levels which England players just can't be bothered with and they are under no pressure to go to. How many of the current squad have been at any sort of international quarterfinal, even youth level? Rooney is one. So why is a quarterfinal the level of expectation?

Of course, Allardyce could come in and play his style of football, but he'd need to abandon the current squad and start picking an entirely different set of players. But then they are not exactly falling over themselves with centre-halves for example or defensively sound full backs...

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How disheartening a transfer for all those coaches up and down England who go out of their way to teach kids about technique and "the right way of playing" only to be betrayed by the FA. How disheartening for those small kids who rely more on technique and smarts over brawn and athleticism, the message from the FACT is clear, there's no place for you here.

The senior national team is about more than just trophies and results, it provides role models and ideals for kids of that country to look up to. Some countries, even when things aren't going well, stick to their principles. England have gone out and hired a long ball merchant, and with that they are saying, forget all this St.George's Park nonsense, unless you look like Andy Carroll or run like Walcott then you haven't a hope.

And yet Allardyce, had Djorkaeff,Okacha and Hierro as part of his Bolton who were all great technical players.

The best role models are players who win and England haven't won in so long if they think Allardyce gives them the best chance of winning a trophy then he's the best man for the job.His job is to pick a team and work on tactics not to teach the players how to play the game.

delaad

Just want to say, I'm delighted for Sam.

Hope they don't nobble him by "integrating" him into the St George's establishment.