topping and Glas

I said

moll3 wrote: »

join GLAS they said
it will b no bother count the calves they saidAttachment not found.

Thank fcuk I'm not the only one with the place looking like that

Base price

Muckit wrote: »

This is what we'd call a slash hook to.

The other yoke with thinner curved blade we would call a briar hook.

You would have to go there and post that pic wouldn't you
My Granddad called that a hedge knife and he used it for laying hedges (when I was a child) as it had the double edge, was heavier and more versatile than the other yoke - a slash hook which was/is used for trimming hedges.
Here is a pic of my Granddad's hedge knife - with a broken handle.

Base price

moll3 wrote: »

join GLAS they said
it will b no bother count the calves they saidAttachment not found.

Was herding yesterday evening and couldn't get the count right. Short 3 calves (April born FR's) amongst the thistles and docks, eventually found them and they were not lying down
Between trying to get the ground ploughed & tilled for the WBC seed and it planted we didn't get to weed lick a couple of the fields. Then the weather turned and the weeds took off. It's too wet to top them at the minute but hopefully I will get going at it tomorrow or Tuesday.

Green farmer

I said wrote: »

Thank fcuk I'm not the only one with the place looking like that

My fields are the same. They want to promote diversity in the field, but with the animals eating anything of quality , the only thing letting run rampant is the weeds and tra'neens.

Water John

Slashhook has the long handle. Similar type blade with a short handle is a Billhook. For a sickle, look at the USSR flag.
The two implements for hedge laying I have not seen in my part of the country.
Hedge laying is not a tradition in Cork.
What was used with the Billhook cutting furze or clearing around young saplings was a Y shaped stick, called a Gaulog. Useless info.

Capercaillie

Green farmer wrote: »

My fields are the same. They want to promote diversity in the field, but with the animals eating anything of quality , the only thing letting run rampant is the weeds and tra'neens.

The "weeds" are what promotes bioversity.

Kovu

Capercaillie wrote: »

The "weeds" are what promotes bioversity.

Well there's certainly a biodiversity of weeds in our fields!

Water John

Well the reality is, that Glas promotes poor farming. Hope the poor feed off the meadows, don't see a poor effect on stock next winter.

But I have taken the bit of money and joined too.

moll3

i'am counting down the days

Capercaillie

Water John wrote: »

Well the reality is, that Glas promotes poor farming. Hope the poor feed off the meadows, don't see a poor effect on stock next winter.

But I have taken the bit of money and joined too.

Intensive monocultures is not good farming either.

Kovu

Capercaillie wrote: »

Intensive monocultures is not good farming either.

The main proportion of farmers who took up GLAS were not the type to have intensive reseeded grassland or heavy fertiliser/pesticide usage. However in order to maximise profit (or even get a profit) from farming, we are obliged to jump through silly hoops in schemes that seem to be trying to offset the emissions from more intense farming.

Water John

Caper and Kovu, agree with ye both.
The poor winter feed was my main concern when I read the scheme initially.

Base price

Water John wrote: »

Well the reality is, that Glas promotes poor farming. Hope the poor feed off the meadows, don't see a poor effect on stock next winter.

But I have taken the bit of money and joined too.

Go on you neigh sayer

Waffletraktor

Capercaillie wrote: »

Intensive monocultures is not good farming either.

Is there much to promote beetle/pollen banks, bird strips in Glas?

Base price

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Is there much to promote beetle/pollen banks, bird strips in Glas?

Financially/diversity wise? Not really IMO although we are only new entrants so will stand corrected.
Most of the farmers around here that have joined GLAS have WBC as part of their plan. Unfortunately they are trying to sow/plant grow oats/linseed/mustard etc in wet swampy ungrasable bottoms in order to claim.
In fairness there is feck all info about sowing conditions other than soil PH and KG/hectare rate of sowing be it direct drill or broadcast on the booklet.
BTW around here I have never seen a corn drill in action. Other than holding onto the hames as a child when my Grandfather sowed oats I have never seen a crop around these parts

Capercaillie

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Is there much to promote beetle/pollen banks, bird strips in Glas?

In GLAS plan for Grey Partridge there is. Limited to specific areas around Lough Boora and North Dublin where native partridge exist though.

Capercaillie

Base price wrote: »

Financially/diversity wise? Not really IMO although we are only new entrants so will stand corrected.
Most of the farmers around here that have joined GLAS have WBC as part of their plan. Unfortunately they are trying to sow/plant grow oats/linseed/mustard etc in wet swampy ungrasable bottoms in order to claim.
In fairness there is feck all info about sowing conditions other than soil PH and KG/hectare rate of sowing be it direct drill or broadcast on the booklet.
BTW around here I have never seen a corn drill in action. Other than holding onto the hames as a child when my Grandfather sowed oats I have never seen a crop around these parts

I knew as little as the next lad when it came to growing WBC. However most people knew that you can't grow tillage crops in swampy ground. They only want to get the cash for the WBC and not to bothered whether it grows or not. Maybe I'm wrong!

50HX

take REPS, AEOS and now Glas - with the best intention and guidelines in the world what they really are is a top up for farmers

personally from our experience we never got really hammered on inspections ( touch wood)

EU can't be seen to give out free money - so they have put these specs and guidelines in place

the BDGP is another example - it's all about fertility, docility etc but is captured under the greenhouse gas emmisions headline as it wouldn't wash to pay farmers just to focus on fertility

all the intensive lads i know wouldn't touch these enviro schemes as it wouldn't pay them to do so - nitrates etc

so for those of us on the margins we are damn glad of these schemes but i wouldn't be getting too caught up on the measures

all lot of these measures are farming by calender - eg WBC

see post #37 - all very easy to say it's written in the guidelines so you should have no complaining eg topping on LIPP

That's all fine when weather allows, on heavy land after a good dry warm spell grass grow nearly better than on free draining land- can't top/gather up surplus for bales under under the justification of biodiversity

i agree to a point but where is the logic in letting weeds going to seed?? you then have to come on spray, far better to control weeds by topping

Capercaillie

50HX wrote: »

i agree to a point but where is the logic in letting weeds going to seed?? you then have to come on spray, far better to control weeds by topping

Topping at an early date means meadows nesting birds like meadow pipit/skylark get their nests/chicks destroyed. Both those species in decline especially Skylark.

Water John

Yes, generally the schemes are for the less intensive farm.
The regulations on any specific scheme some times makes one think hard and weight it up before joining.
I had no problem with the WBC. But I see, the oats part as mainly feeding crows, pidgeons and rats.
As an older person, remember well, animals being fed mouldy hay. Barely enough quality for maintainance. worried about the effect of that from the Meadows section. a point just made by Cuban, over on the main Glas thread.
On balance, decided to join. hope that clarifies my choice.

Kovu

Make no mistake I do see the broader point of the scheme as well with regards to ground nesting birds & species finding it tough to adjust to the spray/seed/cut/repeat style farming. But I am also worried about the quality of feedstuff to be made, at this stage it's aim for silage and shake twice- which we always did anyway!
Wonder will we get any crisis payment like the dairy lads got last Christmas..... :pac:

MayoAreMagic

50HX wrote: »

see post #37 - all very easy to say it's written in the guidelines so you should have no complaining eg topping on LIPP

That's all fine when weather allows, on heavy land after a good dry warm spell grass grow nearly better than on free draining land- can't top/gather up surplus for bales under under the justification of biodiversity

i agree to a point but where is the logic in letting weeds going to seed?? you then have to come on spray, far better to control weeds by topping

To be fair, post 37 was about guys signing into a contract for 5 years and not knowing basic details of requirements that they were signing up for. If a phone company tried to sign you up in that fashion you would run them. Yet here guys are doing it to themselves.

As for your complaints. Well the goalposts haven't changed, and nobody was forced into it. If you know it doesn't suit your land, then why sign up? Not bothering to read the details isn't a decent reason to be fair.

Waffletraktor

Base price wrote: »

Financially/diversity wise? Not really IMO although we are only new entrants so will stand corrected.
Most of the farmers around here that have joined GLAS have WBC as part of their plan. Unfortunately they are trying to sow/plant grow oats/linseed/mustard etc in wet swampy ungrasable bottoms in order to claim.
In fairness there is feck all info about sowing conditions other than soil PH and KG/hectare rate of sowing be it direct drill or broadcast on the booklet.
BTW around here I have never seen a corn drill in action. Other than holding onto the hames as a child when my Grandfather sowed oats I have never seen a crop around these parts

Capercaillie wrote: »

In GLAS plan for Grey Partridge there is. Limited to specific areas around Lough Boora and North Dublin where native partridge exist though.

Would it be a case of guys doing as little as possible to get away with? Guys would want to not reap what they sow expecting money for doing little as possible those days are gone. Next step will be to select where to put in cover rather than where suits iykwim. A little common sense goes along way.

Over here we have a few grades of schemes, grass margins by open drains and rivers just depends how wide with wildflower mixes put through in awkward corners with areas kept topped for skylarks as well. Makes field shapes easier to work and avoid wet areas like in a valley shaded by trees for 20hrs a day which is uneconomic to crop so use these to off set for where we do. There is alot of mature woods and forests on the farm aswel and have an old water meadow set to wildflowers and grasses in rotation. We regard it as off the books as any payments like bps/els/hls schemes disappear to upkeep of the wider estate letting the farm just be purely about what we do. Have a good few hives and a lovely wildlife officer lady around every few weeks.

Capercaillie

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Would it be a case of guys doing as little as possible to get away with? Guys would want to not reap what they sow expecting money for doing little as possible those days are gone. Next step will be to select where to put in cover rather than where suits iykwim. A little common sense goes along way.

Over here we have a few grades of schemes, grass margins by open drains and rivers just depends how wide with wildflower mixes put through in awkward corners with areas kept topped for skylarks as well. Makes field shapes easier to work and avoid wet areas like in a valley shaded by trees for 20hrs a day which is uneconomic to crop so use these to off set for where we do. There is alot of mature woods and forests on the farm aswel and have an old water meadow set to wildflowers and grasses in rotation. We regard it as off the books as any payments like bps/els/hls schemes disappear to upkeep of the wider estate letting the farm just be purely about what we do. Have a good few hives and a lovely wildlife officer lady around every few weeks.

My agriconsultant said the vast majority of farmers are looking to do as little as possible to gain maximum payment from the GLAS scheme. The GLAS scheme is set up to allow this to happen. You have a few farmers who are the exception, like poster "Base Price" planting a wildflower patch not because she's getting a payment but because he think's it will help biodiversity.

Water John

Base is she TMK Caper. Yeah many scrape by with ALAP. Others though Iv'e seen been very proud of work under REPS with ponds, tree planting etc. These usually have been dry stock or suckler farms.

Dunedin

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To be fair, post 37 was about guys signing into a contract for 5 years and not knowing basic details of requirements that they were signing up for. If a phone company tried to sign you up in that fashion you would run them. Yet here guys are doing it to themselves.

As for your complaints. Well the goalposts haven't changed, and nobody was forced into it. If you know it doesn't suit your land, then why sign up? Not bothering to read the details isn't a decent reason to be fair.

very narrow view - phone company's will not guarantee you a return of up to 5k per annum for 5 years.

Farming profits are on it's knees and to maximise the return, you have to capitalise on all schemes. Yes, it mightn't be ideal but you'll not get the same return on land through Beef that Glas will provide.... no matter how efficient and/or productive you are.

tractorporn

Capercaillie wrote: »

Topping at an early date means meadows nesting birds like meadow pipit/skylark get their nests/chicks destroyed. Both those species in decline especially Skylark.

Was this the main reasoning behind the date of the 15th of July?? If so then thats a reasonable measure. Tbh that stipulation was the main reason we did not join the scheme, that and our rivers which were in REPS were not recognised in GLAS.

Green farmer

tractorporn wrote: »

Was this the main reasoning behind the date of the 15th of July?? If so then thats a reasonable measure.

I can understand that for traditional hay meadows but not sure about low input pastures, which are grazed by animals ( sheep graze down to 3-4 inches) and have everything eaten other then weeds and nettles.

Birdnuts

I think this thread sums up why Agro-environment schemes in this country have performed so poorly when it comes to protecting biodiversity, promoting sustainable farming etc. Too much money has been given out for what essentially is old rope eg. sowing WBC in ground that will never support it, poor quality bird boxes in locations that will never see them occupied or serving any purpose etc. It appears the Dept has designed the scheme as a broad brush income support rather than rewarding farmers who actually get solid, measurably results in terms of the environment. This is why the scheme has a capped allocation for each farmer instead of having a results based uncapped payment that would reward those who put in the effort or have extensive designated lands. Its a real shame really cos we already have very succesfull models that GLAS could have been based on such as the EU LIfe projects in the Burren and Aran Islands which have delivered high farmer satisfaction as well as measurable, positive improvements in biodiversity etc. Same in the UK where the countryside stewardship scheme has brought back many farmland bird, plant etc. species back from the dead. Given the vast spend on REPS etc. over the years it really has been a wasted opportunity and poor value for money on so many levels:(

Capercaillie

Birdnuts wrote: »

I think this thread sums up why Agro-environment schemes in this country have performed so poorly when it comes to protecting biodiversity, promoting sustainable farming etc. Too much money has been given out for what essentially is old rope eg. sowing WBC in ground that will never support it, poor quality bird boxes in locations that will never see them occupied or serving any purpose etc. It appears the Dept has designed the scheme as a broad brush income support rather than rewarding farmers who actually get solid, measurably results in terms of the environment. This is why the scheme has a capped allocation for each farmer instead of having a results based uncapped payment that would reward those who put in the effort or have extensive designated lands. Its a real shame really cos we already have very succesfull models that GLAS could have been based on such as the EU LIfe projects in the Burren and Aran Islands which have delivered high farmer satisfaction as well as measurable, positive improvements in biodiversity etc. Same in the UK where the countryside stewardship scheme has brought back many farmland bird, plant etc. species back from the dead. Given the vast spend on REPS etc. over the years it really has been a wasted opportunity and poor value for money on so many levels:(

IFA were dead against a results based scheme.

Waffletraktor

Capercaillie wrote: »

IFA were dead against a results based scheme.

If they want the money they will be forced to earn it going forward, we get inspected with planners visibly looking at and appraising plots with decent le-way so long as not taking the pee. Be guys own fault for going to this but they wont see it that way.

Cavanjack

I know of two lads that went for the trailing shoe slurry option instead of "wasting ground" for WBC. One of them has no intention of sticking to it and I saw him spreading last week with a splash plate. Will he get away with it?

pheasant tail

Cavanjack wrote: »

I know of two lads that went for the trailing shoe slurry option instead of "wasting ground" for WBC. One of them has no intention of sticking to it and I saw him spreading last week with a splash plate. Will he get away with it?

I think there's a lot of people who are in for the low emission slurry who had applied for grants to get the manchinery but until then are working away as above. And no he won't get paid as he needs to produce proof of how he spread the slurry and the receipts, amounts, in line with last year etc. If he's doing it for tier 2 entry without any tier 1's he'll be thrown out of GLAS

MayoAreMagic

Dunedin wrote: »

very narrow view - phone company's will not guarantee you a return of up to 5k per annum for 5 years.

Farming profits are on it's knees and to maximise the return, you have to capitalise on all schemes. Yes, it mightn't be ideal but you'll not get the same return on land through Beef that Glas will provide.... no matter how efficient and/or productive you are.

GLAS wont guarantee you 5k either. But that is beside the point. The fact is nobody would sign a contract that said we will give you 5k is you 'do something', and not check what they were signing up for.

Im not suggesting people don't capitalise on all schemes, Im suggesting they take 5 minutes to find out what they actually have to do, and in doing so what doesn't suit their farm, instead of spending the 5 years complaining about it afterwards. Surely that is only sensible?

Im not buying this thing of 'ah sure we have to take anything that we can, we are on our knees'. Plenty guys could make the money (and more) in hay or silage what they are getting for LIPP. So not reading the thing is actually costing them.

I said

All stock fcuked out onto lipp 11 days to the topper

Dozer1

similar story here, lots of grass walked into the ground even with strip grazing its a big waste.
Still this is year 1 and we'll all make changes next year to compensate some bit so I'm not going to panic.
I look at it this way,
I know what I'll get paid for the measures I picked simple
I don't know how much I'll make/loose on the stock on the same land parcels so I'm sticking in the scheme and any others I join.

As for lads making same or more from making hay or silage I wouldn't be so sure, local baling contractor has only 5k bales made this year so far as lads with no cattle couldn't sell the stuff baled last year and its costing too much to bale it again this year.

kk.man

Dozer1 wrote: »

similar story here, lots of grass walked into the ground even with strip grazing its a big waste.
Still this is year 1 and we'll all make changes next year to compensate some bit so I'm not going to panic.
I look at it this way,
I know what I'll get paid for the measures I picked simple
I don't know how much I'll make/loose on the stock on the same land parcels so I'm sticking in the scheme and any others I join.

As for lads making same or more from making hay or silage I wouldn't be so sure, local baling contractor has only 5k bales made this year so far as lads with no cattle couldn't sell the stuff baled last year and its costing too much to bale it again this year.

Agreed re bales..waist of time, weather forecasting, hardship and money!
Had teagasc guy out..he said the best LPI ground he saw was from a guy who put zero fertiliser out..next year I'll have a smaller bill in that dept!

Muckit

Capercaillie wrote: »

Topping at an early date means meadows nesting birds like meadow pipit/skylark get their nests/chicks destroyed. Both those species in decline especially Skylark.

I seen and heard a bird in my LIPP that never heard before. Perhaps yourself or birdnuts could identify? It was walking around on the ground in long grass and made a kind of squeeking buzzy sound, v unusual not like any bird ive ever heard.

Kovu

Muckit wrote: »

I seen and heard a bird in my LIPP that never heard before. Perhaps yourself or birdnuts could identify? It was walking around on the ground in long grass and made a kind of squeeking buzzy sound, v unusual not like any bird ive ever heard.

You stepped on a mouse

A sedge warbler makes a noise like that though, it's the alarm call.

Muckit

No this bird was the size and shape of a female pheasant. But definitely not the same raspy calling.

If l had my phone on me l would have recorded it. V hard describe it.

Kovu

Muckit wrote: »

No this bird was the size and shape of a female pheasant. But definitely not the same raspy calling.

If l had my phone on me l would have recorded it. V hard describe it.

Hmmm, what was the beak like? Most likely a young something or other.

pedigree 6

Muckit wrote: »

No this bird was the size and shape of a female pheasant. But definitely not the same raspy calling.

If l had my phone on me l would have recorded it. V hard describe it.

I wonder was it a corncrake or a grey partridge.
http://www.rspb.org.uk/discoverandenjoynature/discoverandlearn/birdguide/name/c/corncrake/index.aspx

Waffletraktor

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I wonder was it a corncrake or a grey partridge.
http://www.rspb.org.uk/discoverandenjoynature/discoverandlearn/birdguide/name/c/corncrake/index.aspx

Do not start anything with the RSPB in it, 21st century of landed gentry claiming everyy pence of public money to live fat on :mad:

Capercaillie

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I wonder was it a corncrake or a grey partridge.
http://www.rspb.org.uk/discoverandenjoynature/discoverandlearn/birdguide/name/c/corncrake/index.aspx

both extremely rare and localised. Was probably a pheasant with an abnormal call.

pedigree 6

Capercaillie wrote: »

both extremely rare and localised. Was probably a pheasant with an abnormal call.

And back to topping and Glas.:pac:

moll3

i put the disc mower on today to cut the hagart to b ready for friday

High bike

Will be Thursday night here��

ABlur

moll3 wrote: »

i put the disc mower on today to cut the hagart to b ready for friday

Wish I had your willpower!! Only farm on Saturdays here so next Saturday would be too late so took the disc mower for a trial!

Base price

moll3 wrote: »

i put the disc mower on today to cut the hagart to b ready for friday

Oh and I were herding the other evening in one of our LIPP parcels containing 28 March/April born FR/FRx bull calves. We couldn't get the count right cause some of them were lost amongst the docks and they were not lying down

Water John

Base, you'll have to buy a drone with a camera. Everyone will then volunteer to go and count the cattle.