<snip> Kennels, Cork - Anyone know about here?

Mark_1982

Does anyone know about <snip> Kennels Cork? They specicialise in 'designer' puppies rather than purebreeds. They have a legitimate looking website. But just wondering is it actually a puppy-farm in disguise? Or is it genuinely just a small breeder?

Cherry Blossom

As per the forum charter, accusing someone of puppy farming is not permitted so I have removed the name.

It is not needed to answer your question in any case. Anyone selling 'designer' puppies is either a puppy farm or back yard breeder. There is little difference between the two.

Mark_1982

Yes i know about the general consensus towards 'designer' dogs. But there's a difference between a small backyard breeder who just breeds a couple of purebreeds to give a designer dog, and a puppy farm which has maybe 100s of dogs kept in very poor conditions.

Cherry Blossom

There are plenty of backyard breeders with dogs thrown in a pen out the back in horrible conditions, undersocialised dogs, lies told about health care, vaccinations etc.

Plenty of clean puppy farms given that they are now inspected. There are widely varying degrees of 'care' with both types of establishment. The only difference between the two is a number. For purposes of dog breeding establishment legislation that number is 6 breeding bitches by the way, not hundreds.

They are both unethical, money rackets. As I said, very little difference.

Mark_1982

Ok thanks. Hence why i was asking about this specific breeder in Cork. To see if anyone had any knowledge about it. I see the name has been removed from my post, so guessing the forum rules don't allow it. <info identifying website removed>

tk123

Is this a Labradoodle breeder by any chance? The same one that neuters/spays at 6 WEEKS :eek:

EDIT - apologies I scanned the last post first time around and didn't see it was for "cavachons"... looks like some other puppy mill

muddypaws

Anybody that is breeding 'designer' dogs such as cavachons is unethical and in my opinion should be avoided.

LeinsterDub

muddypaws wrote: »

Anybody that is breeding 'designer' dogs such as cavachons is unethical and in my opinion should be avoided.

Why? Let's say you've 2 exactly the same breeders. Same conditions , same food , nice loving environment. Why is breeding designer dogs worse than breeding pure a breed?

muddypaws

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why? Let's say you've 2 exactly the same breeders. Same conditions , same food , nice loving environment. Why is breeding designer dogs worse than breeding pure a breed?

Why are you breeding them? It isn't to better the breed.

And people breeding designer breeds do not have nice loving environments for their dogs, it is a money racket, that is all. No health tests done, and by that I don't mean vet visits, I mean proper, genetic health tests.

Do what the OP advised, google it, and see that these breeders deliver their pups to the UK, USA and Dubai. So the new owners aren't going to see the pups with their mother are they. You fill in a form on their website, saying which type of pup you want, what sex and colour.

Mark_1982

Thanks everyone for the replies. The purebreed / designer dog is a different debate. And i know people have very strong opinions on it.

However LeinsterDub puts it well above. We are definately getting a 'designer' puppy but want it from a good environment!

Mark_1982

And there are plenty of designer breeders who have full health checks on the parents, including DNA tests. That's what I'm looking for.

muddypaws

Mark_1982 wrote: »

And there are plenty of designer breeders who have full health checks on the parents, including DNA tests. That's what I'm looking for.

Really? DNA tests aren't health checks, health checks mean the tests done for genetic problems that can be found within particular breeds.

That breeder is a puppy farmer, so many different breeds is a bit of a clue.

andreac

Mark_1982 wrote: »

And there are plenty of designer breeders who have full health checks on the parents, including DNA tests. That's what I'm looking for.

Are there really?? I doubt that... :rolleyes: Would love you to show me some that have.

Anyone who deliberately crosses 2 breeds of dogs should be avoided at all costs, they are only doing it for one reason, money, and nothing else. Not for the good of the breed as there is no such breed as a designer one??

Why do you have to have a designer breed anyway?

andreac

Well i just found their website and omg, bloody disgraceful. Cavapoochons, Bernedoodles and Cockapoos?? Give me a break.

When will people stop giving money to these glorified puppy farmers just so they can have a dog with a ridiculous name, words fail me, they really do.

LeinsterDub

muddypaws wrote: »

And people breeding designer breeds do not have nice loving environments for their dogs

So you're just going to ignore the question?

Cherry Blossom

Mark_1982 wrote: »

We are definately getting a 'designer' puppy but want it from a good environment!

'Surplus' puppies are often dumped in the pounds and rescues by these sorts of people. That is the most reputable place you will find them.

What cross are you looking for? Any Cavs used for breeding need yearly mri scans to rule out syringomyelia and other neurological problems. As far as I know only one person in the country does this and she doesn't breed crosses. The scans cost in the region of €2000.

Mark_1982

There's actually a Cavachon breeder near me with full DNA results and health checks for both the father and mother. But they have a massive waiting list. But I'm sure they aren't the only one who cross breeds responsibly.

'Designer' breeds e.g. Cavachons are actually now becoming much more acceptable and can be registered with the Kennel Club. Assuming the breeder is responsible, there's no reason why these dogs should be looked down on just because 2 breeds are mixed.

Mark_1982

which dealer is it that does the scans? She sounds like the type of breeder I'm looking for

muddypaws

Mark_1982 wrote: »

There's actually a Cavachon breeder near me with full DNA results and health checks for both the father and mother. But they have a massive waiting list. But I'm sure they aren't the only one who cross breeds responsibly.

'Designer' breeds e.g. Cavachons are actually now becoming much more acceptable and can be registered with the Kennel Club. Assuming the breeder is responsible, there's no reason why these dogs should be looked down on just because 2 breeds are mixed.

Crossbreeds cannot be registered with the Kennel Club.

muddypaws

Mark_1982 wrote: »

which dealer is it that does the scans? She sounds like the type of breeder I'm looking for

You should reread the post, that breeder doesn't cross breeds, as they are a reputable breeder.

andreac

Mark_1982 wrote: »

There's actually a Cavachon breeder near me with full DNA results and health checks for both the father and mother. But they have a massive waiting list. But I'm sure they aren't the only one who cross breeds responsibly.

'Designer' breeds e.g. Cavachons are actually now becoming much more acceptable and can be registered with the Kennel Club. Assuming the breeder is responsible, there's no reason why these dogs should be looked down on just because 2 breeds are mixed.

Eh, no they can't. Who told you that?? Trust me, im a member of one of the committees in a breed club with the IKC, and you cannot register a cross breed.

andreac

By the way, no one is looking down on the dogs, it's the breeders that we look down on and with very good reasons. Have you not seen all the recent reporting on puppy farmers and what goes on?? You really need to wake up and realise there are no, not one good breeder/s who deliberately cross breeds and gives them stupid names!!

Mark_1982

Agree the names are stupid. And agree there are a lot of puppy farms. Disagree that there can't be someone who cross-breeds dogs and doesn't actually care about the dogs. Someone breeding 2 dogs of different breeds could care 100 times more than someone who breeds 2 dogs of the same breed. They could equally have a loving, caring, environment with bother parents health checked

LeinsterDub

andreac wrote: »

not one good breeder/s who deliberately cross breeds

Surely crossing breeds and inbreed is how they developed the current breeds in the past? In fact from a genetics point of view if you just cross 2 different breeds you'd end up with a better genetic stock in the resulting pups.

Mark_1982

Kennel Club website says they have been registering crossbreeds dogs for 50 years now.

andreac

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Surely crossing breeds and inbreed is how they developed the current breeds in the past? In fact from a genetics point of view if you just cross 2 different breeds you'd end up with a better genetic stock in the resulting pups.

Yes, but not the way people are doing it now. Its a totally different set up altogether.
Now it is just backyard breeders crossing them for the craic and to make a quick buck. Breeds were crossed years ago for specific reasons and functions.

andreac

Mark_1982 wrote: »

Kennel Club website says they have been registering crossbreeds dogs for 50 years now.

Which Kennel Club is that?

If it's the IKC then that would be only for the likes of agility and obedience competition purposes, not for breeding or registrations of litters.

LeinsterDub

andreac wrote: »

Yes, but not the way people are doing it now. Its a totally different set up altogether.
Now it is just backyard breeders crossing them for the craic and to make a quick buck. Breeds were crossed years ago for specific reasons and functions.

So back to this

muddypaws wrote: »

Anybody that is breeding 'designer' dogs such as cavachons is unethical and in my opinion should be avoided.

If they are doing it right then it's not always unethical

LeinsterDub

andreac wrote: »

Which Kennel Club is that?

If it's the IKC then that would be only for the likes of agility and obedience competition purposes, not for breeding or registrations of litters.

IKC and KC the bastions dog health that they are . Keeping breeds pure is more important than genetic strength and health of the dog as illustrated as crufts this year

Mark_1982

thekennelclub.org.uk

And agree with LeinsterDub. Why is it so hard to believe that there are any good breeders out there who are mixing breeds? Why are they all automatically puppy farmers?

andreac

Mark_1982 wrote: »

thekennelclub.org.uk

And agree with LeinsterDub. Why is it so hard to believe that there are any good breeders out there who are mixing breeds? Why are they all automatically puppy farmers?

That's the UK kennel club, but again, it's not for breeding purposes.

We are not going to keep repeating ourselves, we have already explained why there aren't any.

LeinsterDub

andreac wrote: »

That's the UK kennel club, but again, it's not for breeding purposes.

We are not going to keep repeating ourselves, we have already explained why there aren't any.

You haven't explained you've just offered up this hypocritical opinion "Breeders can be good expect if they are Cross breeding in which case they are all bad".

Mark_1982

I don't think anyone has actually answered the question at all. All i've heard are prejudiced comments about how if you mix 2 breeds of dogs, you are automatically a puppy farmer. Whereas the truth seems to be that there are puppy farms for both purebeed and 'designer' dogs. And there can be good breeders for both, although they are rarer for cross-breeds.

purplecow1977

muddypaws wrote:

That breeder is a puppy farmer, so many different breeds is a bit of a clue.

What's a designer puppy??

andreac

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You haven't explained you've just offered up this hypocritical opinion "Breeders can be good expect if they are Cross breeding in which case they are all bad".

I already have explained, as have others. Read back on my posts. Designer breeders do it only for one reason and that's to make a quick buck, it is not for the good of the breed or to improve it, or improve the health or quality of the breed, as there is no such breed as a Cavachon or Cockapoo!!

andreac

purplecow1977 wrote: »

What's a designer puppy??

A puppy that has 2 different breeds as parents, and given a ridiculous name like "Cockapoo" or "Cavachon".

cocker5

Mark_1982 wrote: »

And there are plenty of designer breeders who have full health checks on the parents, including DNA tests. That's what I'm looking for.

your not living in the really world here OP... no puppy farmer (which is what they are) will pay for those sort of tests..

the breed only for PROFIT.- hence the "designer breed" as you put it

cocker5

Mark_1982 wrote: »

There's actually a Cavachon breeder near me with full DNA results and health checks for both the father and mother. But they have a massive waiting list. But I'm sure they aren't the only one who cross breeds responsibly.

'Designer' breeds e.g. Cavachons are actually now becoming much more acceptable and can be registered with the Kennel Club. Assuming the breeder is responsible, there's no reason why these dogs should be looked down on just because 2 breeds are mixed.

Rubbish - do you research OP before posting such nonsense

Mark_1982

Which bit is the nonsense? That the breeder has DNA results? (which i've seen) Or that the Kennel Club widely accepts crossbreeds? (which is on their website) Crufts even has a section for crossbreeds now!!!! They are probably becoming more common that purebreeds.

Also surely all purebreeds breeders do it for profit too???????

Cherry Blossom

OP the register for crossbreeds is the working dog register. It's purpose is to acknowledge dogs that are not on the normal register and allow them entry into kennel club competitions e.g. competitive obedience and agility. The dog's parents, grandparents details etc are not recorded on this registry. It's a completely pointless exercise unless you are entering these competitions. Toy breeds for the most part are not known to excel in agility and competitive obedience. They were bred to be lapdogs, intelligence and athletic ability very much took a back seat when they were created.

muddypaws

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So back to this


If they are doing it right then it's not always unethical

But nobody is 'doing it right'. So yes, it is always unethical.

Again back to my point, why would a breeder be doing it? If purely for money, that is a puppy farmer or back yard breeder, take your pick on the term. What other reason would there be?

I have no issue with cross breeds, I own some myself, but when people purposely cross two breeds, give them a made up name such as cavachon purely to get more money out of gullible people, that is what I have an issue with. And as always, it is the dogs that suffer.

Please find me a designer dog breeder that does genetic health testing. I'm sure if there is one in Ireland, it would be on their website, along with the test results.

muddypaws

Mark_1982 wrote: »

Which bit is the nonsense? That the breeder has DNA results? (which i've seen) Or that the Kennel Club widely accepts crossbreeds? (which is on their website) Crufts even has a section for crossbreeds now!!!! They are probably becoming more common that purebreeds.

Also surely all purebreeds breeders do it for profit too???????

Nope, not all purebreed breeders do it for profit. Unfortunately an awful lot do, and they are also puppy farmers. Reputable, ethical breeders breed to improve the breed and/or because they want a pup themselves. I know a lot of breeders who breed and keep every pup from the litter themselves, no money in that.

And yep, I took a crossbreed to Crufts in March, and he had a blast, but we were there as part of a display about canicross, which all dogs can do.

Rommie

There are a lot of issues with 'designer breeds'. First of all they are bred for one purpose and one only, to be 'trendy' and make money. They have stupid names, there's no telling which parent they are going to get health/personality/instincts from (for example pugxjrt crosses, someone wants a pug temperament and ends up with a jrt x they can't handle), they are marketed as hypoallergenic (which they are not) and they are not health tested as the breeders only care about money. If they didn't care about money, why are they breeding the 'trendy breeds'? It's the same as all those siberian husky 'breeders' who suddenly popped up when they were the height of fashion, they were all puppy farmers/backyard breeders too. And the major issue with these breedings is no genetic health testing is done (which can cost well up into the thousands to do) and they end up breeding two dogs with potential health issues to each other. Cavaliers and pugs, both have breathing problems, so breeding them together is a great idea apparently?? Cavaliers and bichons both prone to luxating patellas, labradors and poodles both suffer from hip dysplasia. I could go on

Unless a breeder could show me a full list of results from the different screenings both parents would need to qualify as healthy, I wouldn't even consider getting a puppy off them. Unfortunately, none of these designer breeders will have such a thing. There's a reason the creator of the first labrador x poodle regrets what he did as it's opened the floodgates for all these unethical breeders. The fact that people still fall for it and can somehow say the word Cockapoo with a straight face is truly baffling

cocker5

Mark_1982 wrote: »

Which bit is the nonsense? That the breeder has DNA results? (which i've seen) Or that the Kennel Club widely accepts crossbreeds? (which is on their website) Crufts even has a section for crossbreeds now!!!! They are probably becoming more common that purebreeds.

Also surely all purebreeds breeders do it for profit too???????

Actually OP "proper" breeders make very little profit on breeding after the pay for all health check and genetic testing

Show me where is says the Irish kennel club register mixed breeds? they cant as they are NOT a breed - do you understand this? they are a mongrel.

There is in fact nothing wrong with mongrels whatsoever the issue lies with people breeding them to make money , giving them stupid names and convincing idiots they are a designer breed... this is where the problem lies.

If you want a mongrel adopt a puppy there are literally 1000's looking for new homes. Paying €500 for a designer "mongrel" is just plain mental not to mention STUPID

OP you've decided your getting a designer breed so be it on your conscious that by doing so you are fuelling the back yard breeder / puppy farming industry. - FACT

tk123

Am I being stupid here but why would you care if a breeder had dna testing done on dogs? Like if you need them to prove the dog is genuinely the breed/cross they say it is why the hell would you buy a pup from them in the first place?

Cherry Blossom

tk123 wrote: »

Am I being stupid here but why would you care if a breeder had dna testing done on dogs? Like if you need them to prove the dog is genuinely the breed/cross they say it is why the hell would you buy a pup from them in the first place?

There are some DNA tests that are relevant to health e.g. some herding breeds are tested for the mdr1 gene which affects a dogs ability to survive anesthetic. I didn't know any were relevant to the breeds being mentioned here though so I'd be interested to know what they are testing for.

boomerang

Met a pup purchased from this kennel. Pup was microchipped, which is good, but just got a parvo shot and not by a vet. Clearly the pups are not seen by a vet before purchase.

Mark_1982

Well wasn't that fun. I do take on board everything that's been said even if i don't agree with some of it. Yes designer dogs have stupid names and many are bred for profit only! But that doesn't automically mean they are puppy farmers and treat the dogs badly. They could have 2 registered pure-bred dogs and just use them to cross breed! To me there's nothing wrong with that. If they make a profit, so be it. The dog's health and well-being is the priority. And whilst a few people breed pure-breds for the love of the breed, the majority of them also do it for profit. But that also doesn't mean they don't love those dogs!

The Kennel Club (U.K.!!!!) at least recognises the huge numbers of cross-breeds around now and even accepts some of the stupid names as well-known now! e.g. cavachon. If a dog is loved by the breeder and the owner, then i don't think it matters whether it's a pure-breed or a designer dog (mongrel). And if people want to pay extra because they like the look of a particular dog, then i think that's ok too!

tk123

Maybe you should get an ostrich and join it in burying your head in the sand..

Mark_1982

Really???? That's your response to my last comments!!!! And you think my head is buried in the sand?

tk123

Mark_1982 wrote: »

Really???? That's your response to my last comments!!!! And you think my head is buried in the sand?

You've ignored everything that people have said to you - like everyone else who's in denial that they're supporting puppy farmers... which adds to the problem.