<snip> Kennels, Cork - Anyone know about here?

Rommie

Mark_1982 wrote: »

The dog's health and well-being is the priority.

Yes it is, however it's pretty much a guarantee that that is not what these breeders will be focusing on. Not to mention you may be lucky and get a healthy pup, but every single person who buys one of these puppies is condemning their parents to being bred again and again. If you really want a crossbreed that much, I reccommend getting in touch with the <snip> as they have only just recently rescued 20+ puppies (two different incidents) that were hidden in a car being transported to Scotland, many of them barely more than 4weeks of age. If you absolutely have to have a 'designer breed' please rescue rather than put money in the hands of people who will continue to breed for profit. This goes for both purebreds and crossbreeds, there are bad pure bred breeders out there too, but the main fact still stands. No responsible, ethical breeder would breed these designer breeds

the beer revolu

What I think gets people's backsbacks up in this forum is the insistence that a mongrel pup cannot be ethically bred.

I have no idea whether anyone in Ireland is doing this but in reality no one else can know for sure that nobody is doing it.

I accept the possibility that there are no ethically bred mongrel pups in Ireland but it is possible to ethically breed a mongrel pup and simply screaming that it's not proves nothing.

It is also possible to create a new 'breed' over time with careful selective breeding just like every currently recognised breed was created.

The argument that "it's not a real breed" is hollow and pointless. Every breed started somewhere and at some time was not recognised.

And don't get me started on what some "ethical" breeders and kennel clubs have done to some breeds. Many breeders do not breed to better the breed, they breed to win competitions.

There is clearly a demand for so called designer breeds. Wouldn't it be a good thing if people were encouraged to responsibly breed these dogs? They are not going anywhere.

I also get a sense of protectionism and snobbery from the "ethical breeders" and their customers.

To be honest, II don't see how any dog lover could buy a dog, pure breed or otherwise when the pounds are bursting with unwanted dogs.
But that's another argument.

Mark_1982

Totally agree. That's why i was shocked as to how tk123 responded to my last comments which i thought were quite fair and balanced! Your comments above explain it all quite clearly

Nody

the beer revolu wrote: »

What I think gets people's backsbacks up in this forum is the insistence that a mongrel pup cannot be ethically bred.

I have no idea whether anyone in Ireland is doing this but in reality no one else can know for sure that nobody is doing it.

Sorry but the black swan argument while nice does not prove anything. To date not a single case of mongrel breeding has been done ethically so why should people not decry it until proven differently?

I accept the possibility that there are no ethically bred mongrel pups in Ireland but it is possible to ethically breed a mongrel pup and simply screaming that it's not proves nothing.

And once again no one disputes you can not breed mongrels (or indeed insert new blood into poor lines as done in the UK to improve the breed quality) ethically but that to date not a single case has been shown of it in Ireland. If someone wants to do it "correctly" they would tell the world about it which is clearly on the case.

It is also possible to create a new 'breed' over time with careful selective breeding just like every currently recognised breed was created.

Which once again has people clearly stating this as a goal and carefully selecting the breed mixes to get the desired effect; not buying a stud and a bitch and then breeding them for as many litters as possible (which is what's going on in Ireland).

There is clearly a demand for so called designer breeds. Wouldn't it be a good thing if people were encouraged to responsibly breed these dogs? They are not going anywhere.

Except that there are no one doing responsible breeding to date so how do you suggest to "encourage responsibility" when the goal of the breeders is a quick buck? As shown by the lack of proper screening, proper vet care and backed up by multiple cases of back yard breeders being brought to court over it and export of designer pups being caught at borders.

I also get a sense of protectionism and snobbery from the "ethical breeders" and their customers.

It's a care for dogs; there is no need for more mongrels (and many of the common pure breeds) today as it stands so why breed more dogs that are more likely to end up in the pound before they are killed?

To be honest, II don't see how any dog lover could buy a dog, pure breed or otherwise when the pounds are bursting with unwanted dogs.
But that's another argument.

And this is the essence of the issue; if someone wants to show they want to breed a new stock of Labradoodles and can show a clear outline on the goal, the selection of studs and bitches I#m certain there would be acceptance of it. What's not accepted is the Done Deal "buy a pup for 400 EUR from the back of a car" breeders and that is like it or not the only known type of mongrel breeders in Ireland today.

andreac

^^^
This. Well said Nody. Great post.

Mark_1982

if you look at website <snip> - do you not think this is responsible breeding?

Cherry Blossom

I thought you were buying a puppy in Cork?

Rommie

Mark_1982 wrote: »

if you look at website <snip> - do you not think this is responsible breeding?

Well straight away there's absolutely no mention of testing for syringomyelia in the cavaliers so that would be a red flag for me. They also state they vaccinate, then say they don't vaccinate so I'd be wondering why the pups are 850 pounds

tk123

That website ticks all the boxes to make it look great and fool a potential buyer imo. It reminds me of that one I think for Labradors(?) a few years that some posters may remember? They were eithical and reputable breeders according the buyer who wouldn't listen to everyone's warnings...and the poor pup ended up being PTS because it's hips were that bad and it wasn't just that pup - other people had a similar experience.

Mark_1982

Guess there's no converting some people. Even when the parents are fully health checked to Kennel Club recommendations. And syringomyelia in cavaliers icould happen just as easily in purebreeds. Doesn't always show up in MRIs even until the dog displays symptoms. A breeder like the one i mentioned above is surely 100 times better than a puppy farm!!!!

tk123

Do you know this breeder puppy farmer?

cocker5

tk123 wrote: »

Do you know this breeder puppy farmer?

he who protests .. protests too much...

Im starting to think this post may be a "plug" / advertising for this puppy farmer :eek:

Choc Chip

Can I ask why you want a "designer" puppy (using your words) OP?

As in, why would you choose the risk of a mix which could throw the characteristics of either breed, rather than the certainty of a pure bred dog?

I ask this with 3 dogs staying with me right now, only one of which is KC registered, so I'm not being judgemental about mixed breeds. I'm just curious as to why you would deliberately choose a puppy that had been specifically bred that way.

muddypaws

Mark_1982 wrote: »

Guess there's no converting some people. Even when the parents are fully health checked to Kennel Club recommendations. And syringomyelia in cavaliers icould happen just as easily in purebreeds. Doesn't always show up in MRIs even until the dog displays symptoms. A breeder like the one i mentioned above is surely 100 times better than a puppy farm!!!!

No you're absolutely right. I will never be converted into thinking that puppy farmers are decent people, who care about the dogs.

tk123

cocker5 wrote: »

he who protests .. protests too much...

Im starting to think this post may be a "plug" / advertising for this puppy farmer :eek:

Now now - a website makes you a legit breeder Hopefully they are actually breeding them over there in the UK at least - and not having them shipped over from some shed here!

When I called about Lucy I goggled away for days lol getting stats like hip scores for her linage and generally sussing them out from photos - what's their gait like etc etc... That place is keeping them secret in case somebody steals them and uses them for their own puppy farm.

Cherry Blossom

Given that the OP signed up to start this very contensious thread and it appears to be going nowhere, I think it has run its course now.

Thread closed.