Good *wide* family car

Gwynston

We have 3 kids aged 7, 10, 12 and a 2008 Ford S-Max which we've really liked (it's the most car-like MPV), but it's starting to get on a bit and we're looking to change to something newer (<18mo).

While the extra 2 rear seats have been useful when we've occasionally had extra school friends or cousins in tow, I'm thinking we could manage without them now. But one other good thing about the S-Max is that there are 3 individual seats in the middle row, which gives more space, comfort and less scope for fighting between the kids.

I've been looking around and there are lots of nice cars around, like big saloons/hatchbacks/estates or SUVs. But one thing I notice is that they all have a bench seat in the back with only two properly sculpted seats, typically also with a tunnel/hump in the floor, so the middle passenger will be severely compromised, and I can see lots of scope for moaning and squabbling.

So what medium/large family car provides decent, wide accommodation in the back for three growing passengers?

Or do only MPVs provide such?

Gwynston

To get you started, I had a look at the Skoda Superb. Nice car, with loads of space and a huge (too big) boot. But despite the size, when I sat the 3 kids in it, because of the bench seat, the one in the middle didn't seem to have much space and complained about the intrusion in the floor.

The Hyundai Sante Fe looks like it has a better middle seat, but they're really expensive. Seemingly over 40k for a 12mo.

AlanG

The Insignia sports tourer has 3 isofix seats across the back which means each seat is quite wide. It is one of the few 5 seat cars that has this so it would be a good option. I know nothing else about the car however.

grogi

Gwynston wrote: »

Or do only MPVs provide such?

http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/best-cars-with-three-isofix-points

My pleasure...

Gwynston

So pretty-much only MPVs then?

Note - I don't actually need ISOFIX, but I suppose the presence of 3 of those is a good indicator of decent middle seat space.

I'll look into the Insignia, but the missus doesn't really like estates.... :rolleyes:

nikkibikki

Did you look at a Citroen C4 Picasso? I have a grand Picasso and the middle row has 3full size seats. I would imagine the 5seater version would too.

grogi

nikkibikki wrote: »

Did you look at a Citroen C4 Picasso? I have a grand Picasso and the middle row has 3full size seats. I would imagine the 5seater version would too.

The (Grand) Picasso, contrary to (Grand) Scenic, has three identical seat in the back...

Gwynston

We looked at the older model Grand C4 Picasso back when we got the S-Max in 2009, but my wife didn't like the 'wacky' French styling. I do think the new range looks quite good though, and it's had great reviews.

I think it's less spacious than the S-Max though. Similarly, the Toyota Corolla Verso also has 3 individual seats, but is narrower then the S-Max.

So maybe a new S-Max is our best option after all (but rather too expensive) if MPVs are the only real option, based on my criteria. But I was hoping to find a more regular large family car with decent space for the middle rear passenger.

Which is why I was disappointed with the Superb. For such a huuuuuge car, the rear bench seat was a let down.

grogi

Gwynston wrote: »

So maybe a new S-Max is our best option after all (but rather too expensive) if MPVs are the only real option, based on my criteria. But I was hoping to find a more regular large family car with decent space for the middle rear passenger.

S-Max is great alright - but it's ridiculously expensive.

Check out the Peugeot 5008. Does not feel very MPV and is much less French in design than Citroen. Much more to the ground, with stiffer suspension. Not as fun to drive as S-Max, but still above the average. It has been recently face-lifted and comes with goods specs - but one can still get a very good deal on a new one. 5 year warranty too for the piece of mind.

Which is why I was disappointed with the Superb. For such a huuuuuge car, the rear bench seat was a let down.

The back is really designed for two people, not three... They should give you an option how you want the second row to be profiled though...

Gwynston

Quickly googling some images online, it looks like the non-Grand C4 Picasso has similar individual rear seats as the Grand. Also the non-Grand Scenic too. So they're less MPV-like cars, but with individual seats and without the 3rd row.

Dunno if herself would go for the French styling. Does the Peugeot 5008 come in a 5-seater, or only the same floor-plan as the Grand C4 Picasso?

grogi

Gwynston wrote: »

Quickly googling some images online, it looks like the non-Grand C4 Picasso has similar individual rear seats as the Grand. Also the non-Grand Scenic too. So they're less MPV-like cars, but with individual seats and without the 3rd row.

Picasso has three identical seats. It has shorter wheelbase than the Grand Picasso and the 2nd row has less legroom than in the 7-seater. But it is a sound car - and low in demand, so even the fresh pieces can be grabbed cheaply. 5 year warranty is available on late 2015 models only though.

Scenic's middle seat is narrower than the other two.

Dunno if herself would go for the French styling. Does the Peugeot 5008 come in a 5-seater, or only the same floor-plan as the Grand C4 Picasso?

Only 7 seats. But they fold flat, one hardly notices them. When boot lining is in place, nobody has to know

bazz26

A Superb or similar was never designed to have 3 individual rear seats. If you want this setup then your more than likely going to have to go with another MPV. That's what they are mainly designed for.

R.O.R

Last model V70 was pretty much flat across the back. Outside seats do have a bit of a shape to them, but the centre seat is wider than most. I comfortably sat in between 2 car seats for a couple of hours when we had ours.

Still has the transmission tunnel stealing foot space though, and is more cumbersome than the S-Max for city driving.

Gwynston

Had to take the afternoon off to look after the kids, so did a bit of car shopping!

When I collected them off my wife, I pointed out a 5008 to my her, and she said "Too boxy..."

Stopped by the Hyundai dealer and tried the kids out in the back of a Tucson. Two of them use booster seats and the middle wasn't really suitable for one. Even the bigger 7-seat Santa Fe doesn't have three separate seats and again, a booster wouldn't really work in the middle.

Then went to the Citroen dealer to compare the C4 Grand Picasso with the non-Grand. Surprisingly, there was pretty much the same space in the back 3 separate seats in the 5-seater. While I quite liked the external styling, the kids didn't - perhaps it's too radical for them. However, I really don't like the central instrument cluster and some of the interior trim and panelling came across as pretty cheap. Plus I really didn't like the seat material.

So, back to the drawing board...!

grogi

Gwynston wrote: »

So, back to the drawing board...!

S-Max it is then...

Gwynston

bazz26 wrote: »

A Superb or similar was never designed to have 3 individual rear seats. If you want this setup then your more than likely going to have to go with another MPV. That's what they are mainly designed for.

Yeah, I kind of understand that. But even discounting kids boosters etc., I was surprised that such a huge car still is really only designed to seat 2 in the back. The seats are sculpted that way.

Reminds me of my Honda Civic VTi saloon I had back in the 90s (before kids) which really was only a 4-seater:

Gruffalo22

Toyota Verso is another option

w ww.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/verso-2013/

Extracts below


Genuinely seats seven adults with some luggage space behind the rearmost seats. BMW 1.6 D-4D engine from 2014.

Happily, what made the previous Verso such a good MPV remains. There are seven seats, the rear five of which fold completely flat and these can be configured in any way you want. So for example, if you have a roll of carpet to move but also have two children to carry, that’s fine. In fact, you can fold all the seats for a huge cargo area if needed.

Lex Luthor

Honda CR-V....FLAT TRANSMISSION TUNNEL ASWELL...

Bored_lad

What about a Volvo XC90 the back is fairly spacious and you'd have no problem fitting the three of them in the back. You have the extra two seats as well incase you've anyone else with you.

Gwynston

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Honda CR-V....FLAT TRANSMISSION TUNNEL ASWELL...

Checking CR-V pics online - the back looks similar to the Hyundais. A flat enough bench alright, but the seatbelt mounting points in the middle are too close together for a booster to be easily usable.

Only my eldest child doesn't use a booster any more, but he can't sit in the middle because his sister gets car sick if she doesn't sit in the middle to watch the road ahead. Admittedly, she'll only need a booster for a couple more years, but it's still a requirement for now.

Gwynston

Bored_lad wrote: »

What about a Volvo XC90

I wish!
Way too expensive - I could buy a brand new S-Max for the price of a 2-y-o one of those....

Bored_lad

Gwynston wrote: »

I wish!
Way too expensive - I could buy a brand new S-Max for the price of a 2-y-o one of those....

If you do get one you should definitely spend the extra to get a new one or at the very least a 2015 as they changed them and the new ones look far better inside and out.

Mc Love

The Seat Alhambra would be the next best thing to S-Max imo

Gwynston

An update on this - I'm still shopping!

Had a serious look at the new S-Max last week. But they really are expensive and the tight salesman would only offer me 7k :eek: trade-in for our 2008 2.0 Titanium S-Max!

Also looked at a Renault Kadjar, but the rear really isn't big enough for three. Shame 'cos I really like the look of it. Also the Hyundai Tuscon which suffers from the same problem.

Went to the Opel dealer today, and although the Insignia Sports Tourer is quite spacious in the back, the middle seat is still slightly compromised in ergonomics and also by the console in front plus transmission tunnel. I also looked at the Zafira, which I hadn't given much consideration to before - it looks much better value than an S-Max and is almost as big. I might give one a test drive to see if the 1.6 TDCi is up to the task and how it drives compared to an S-Max.

I must say, I thought both Opels looked very smart. It's not a brand I've ever taken seriously before (probably due to my UK background where they're all Vauxhalls with zero cred), but they look well put together and well specced. And because both those models have been around a while (probably due an upgrade soon) and I don't think they keep their value very well, there are some attractively-priced nearly-new deals.

Marcusm

Gwynston wrote: »

An update on this - I'm still shopping!

Had a serious look at the new S-Max last week. But they really are expensive and the tight salesman would only offer me 7k :eek: trade-in for our 2008 2.0 Titanium S-Max!

Also looked at a Renault Kadjar, but the rear really isn't big enough for three. Shame 'cos I really like the look of it. Also the Hyundai Tuscon which suffers from the same problem.

Went to the Opel dealer today, and although the Insignia Sports Tourer is quite spacious in the back, the middle seat is still slightly compromised in ergonomics and also by the console in front plus transmission tunnel. I also looked at the Zafira, which I hadn't given much consideration to before - it looks much better value than an S-Max and is almost as big. I might give one a test drive to see if the 1.6 TDCi is up to the task and how it drives compared to an S-Max.

I must say, I thought both Opels looked very smart. It's not a brand I've ever taken seriously before (probably due to my UK background where they're all Vauxhalls with zero cred), but they look well put together and well specced. And because both those models have been around a while (probably due an upgrade soon) and I don't think they keep their value very well, there are some attractively-priced nearly-new deals.

I think you should ask our wife whether she is willing to compromise on styling for function!

Avatar MIA

Keep the S Max for another year or two and save up to by the Volvo.

Or wait another 6 years until the oldest is in college and buy a sports car.

Gwynston

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I'm still in the market for something to replace our 08 S-Max.
I had the 3 kids in tow yesterday (12, 10, 7yrs) and stopped by some dealers to check out rear seat sizes:

Mondeo - for such a large car they were quite squished together in the back. Seems like a frustratingly inefficient use of space.

Superb - wider in the middle in the back. We even went for a test drive and initially the kids seemed reasonably happy with it. I was really impressed with the ride with a full load on board - compliant over bumps, but stable round corners, and handles nimbly for a big car.
Unfortunately towards the end of the the drive, kid in the middle started complaining about having to straddle legs either side of the transmission tunnel. So even though the seat's OK, leg accommodation is not. Again, this is a frustrating let-down considering the generous distance between the front and back seats.

Mitsubishi Outlander - not bad, but rear accomodation is similarly tight as a Santa Fe.

The kids were drawn towards a Seat Alhambra which had lots of nice top-spec goodies, and of course this was very spacious, as were the Galaxy and S-Max we looked at.

But I'm trying to find a cheaper alternative to a full-size MPV or SUV, and I can't find one that fits 3 kids!
Probably the best solution that fits my criteria is the 5-seat Picasso, but I really don't like the interior (central dash, some cheap finishes and nasty seat material)

I just don't get it - how does everyone else manage with 3 kids in regular cars?

Paulzx

Gwynston wrote: »

Superb - wider in the middle in the back. We even went for a test drive and initially the kids seemed reasonably happy with it. I was really impressed with the ride with a full load on board - compliant over bumps, but stable round corners, and handles nimbly for a big car.
Unfortunately towards the end of the the drive, kid in the middle started complaining about having to straddle legs either side of the transmission tunnel. So even though the seat's OK, leg accommodation is not.

As far as I'm aware the Toyota Avenisis has no transmission tunnell in the back. The floor is completely flat. I don't know how good the seat is for 3 kids thought

Mary63

The toyota rava is a fairly big car and three children should fit very comfortably.Its not as if they are living in the car.

Its pretty good on diesel too and nice to drive.

bazz26

Gwynston wrote: »

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I'm still in the market for something to replace our 08 S-Max.
I had the 3 kids in tow yesterday (12, 10, 7yrs) and stopped by some dealers to check out rear seat sizes:

Mondeo - for such a large car they were quite squished together in the back. Seems like a frustratingly inefficient use of space.

Superb - wider in the middle in the back. We even went for a test drive and initially the kids seemed reasonably happy with it. I was really impressed with the ride with a full load on board - compliant over bumps, but stable round corners, and handles nimbly for a big car.
Unfortunately towards the end of the the drive, kid in the middle started complaining about having to straddle legs either side of the transmission tunnel. So even though the seat's OK, leg accommodation is not. Again, this is a frustrating let-down considering the generous distance between the front and back seats.

Mitsubishi Outlander - not bad, but rear accomodation is similarly tight as a Santa Fe.

The kids were drawn towards a Seat Alhambra which had lots of nice top-spec goodies, and of course this was very spacious, as were the Galaxy and S-Max we looked at.

But I'm trying to find a cheaper alternative to a full-size MPV or SUV, and I can't find one that fits 3 kids!
Probably the best solution that fits my criteria is the 5-seat Picasso, but I really don't like the interior (central dash, some cheap finishes and nasty seat material)

I just don't get it - how does everyone else manage with 3 kids in regular cars?

They don't really. Sales of cars like the Mondeo, Avensis, etc are falling across Europe as people switch to SUV crossovers and MPVs instead. Toyota have no plans to replace the existing Avensis with a new model for example. Nissan stopped making the Primera nearly 10 years ago.

Gwynston

Mary63 wrote: »

The toyota rava is a fairly big car and three children should fit very comfortably.Its not as if they are living in the car.

Do you mean Rav4? Not really big enough.

And it's not like we actually do many long journeys. But I can't justify changing to a newer car which has less space for the 3 in the back than we've had in our S-Max these past 7 years. They will be 3 teenagers soon enough.

I'm just finding it frustrating that nothing outside 7-seat MPVs seems to have as much accomodation in the back, even the biggest "family" cars.

Gwynston

bazz26 wrote: »

Sales of cars like the Mondeo, Avensis, etc are falling across Europe as people switch to SUV crossovers and MPVs instead.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I would love to have a new S-Max, or large SUV. But they're all more than I'd like to spend. I'm just frustrated that so many other supposedly "large" cars don't offer enough space in the back.

bazz26

That was never their intention though which is why you cannot find one. Large cars offer more boot space, interior space/legroom/comfort for passengers but have always been designed for 4 passengers with an occasional small passenger in the rear centre. With the emergence of MPVs and crossovers there was no need to go back to the drawing board with regular large cars to accommodate more passengers.

Have a look at the Ford C-Max. It's a 5 seater and has 3 individual seats across the back. It's based on the Focus and looks similar. If you need a 3rd row of seats then look at the Grand C-Max.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

Have a look at the Ford C-Max. It's a 5 seater and has 3 individual seats across the back. It's based on the Focus and looks similar. If you need a 3rd row of seats then look at the Grand C-Max.

C-Max is similarly designed for 4 people, with 5th as an add-on...

Gwynston

Yeah, looked at the C-Max yesterday too. Bit more space in the middle than a mid-size SUV (Qashqai, Tuscon, Kadjar etc.) but probably not enough for when the kids get bigger.

Dubl07

Compromise is a valuable lesson for kids. You're the adult and if they don't like travelling in your reasonable choice of vehicle, give them bus fare whatever the weather.

grogi

Dubl07 wrote: »

Compromise is a valuable lesson for kids. You're the adult and if they don't like travelling in your reasonable choice of vehicle, give them bus fare whatever the weather.

If the OP wanted a parenting advice, would post in different section.

flutered

when we go the the continent it is usually a renault espace we use, it is away wider than the standard 7 seater, also it is longer, superb seating, comfort which is unrivaled in any other car we tried, cheap to run also

Theboinkmaster

Why don't the premium brands make 3 seats across, so for example why doesn't the BMW f10 5 series have a proper 3rd seat, or the audi a6?

There don't seem to be any nice premium brands that cater to 3 kids, unless you go for 7 seater x5.

biko

Please stick to recommendations of cars and let OP make the decisions

Gwynston

I think bazz26 ansered that in post 33 above:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102165407&postcount=33

I'm coming to the conclusion that proper 5-seater cars don't exist...

Theboinkmaster

Gwynston wrote: »

I think bazz26 ansered that in post 33 above:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102165407&postcount=33

I'm coming to the conclusion that proper 5-seater cars don't exist...

But why not just make the bmw 5 series a tiny bit wider to accommodate a third seat?

Why do 3 children families have to select from ugly yokes like those currently available, why not make normal saloons a little wider?

grogi

Gwynston wrote: »

I think bazz26 ansered that in post 33 above:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102165407&postcount=33

I'm coming to the conclusion that proper 5-seater cars don't exist...

They do exist - Renault Scenic (not Grand Scenic), C4 Picasso (not Grand Picasso).

Big Nasty

Only had a quick flick through the thread but didn't see the Galaxy mentioned?

bazz26

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Why don't the premium brands make 3 seats across, so for example why doesn't the BMW f10 5 series have a proper 3rd seat, or the audi a6?

There don't seem to be any nice premium brands that cater to 3 kids, unless you go for 7 seater x5.

The 5 Series and A6 are large executive cars, they are not family transports. They are pretty wide but they are designed to carry two people in the rear in comfort, not 3 abreast.

bazz26

grogi wrote: »

They do exist - Renault Scenic (not Grand Scenic), C4 Picasso (not Grand Picasso).

Still MPVs though.

Gwynston

Yeah, looks like those are the only ones that fit my criteria - proper 5-seaters, but cheaper than full-size MPVs.

Also, the (non-Grand) C-Max, although I'd have to test the kids in that and a Scenic (the 2017 model looks a big improvement) to see if they're big enough..

Only the Picasso has 3 proper seats, but as I mentioned I'm not keen in the interior.

Gwynston

Or if I want to spend lots of dosh, a new model S-Max!

And the forthcoming Skoda Kodiaq looks good too, but my local dealer tells me it will be months before they come to Ireland.

Shefwedfan

I would look at Rav4 if going for that type of cross over. It doesn't have raised section in middle seats while all others do. I had Qashqai and it is small in back, my friend swapped an ix35 for a Qashqai because there was more space in back of Qashqai so I would think that would rule out ix35 and replacement Tucson.

The older model A6 had loads of room in back(changed in 11 ) so you could see if you could get decent one of them second hand. Lovely car to drive. I have one, and brother has newer model and it is a lot smaller in back. I am thinking of selling mine if you want it :-)

You could go for older XC90 or Q7 from Audi. Both are massive inside and I would love one but the money as you mentioned is crazy but you could try to go older and just get full service history etc. Like gold dust mind you.....

I don't know models but I know the merc's where always a big car but no real history of driving them or anything so cant tell if they would suit,.....

CountingCrows

VW Touran? 3 individual rear seats. I'm waiting delivery on a new highline. We needed a car where an adult could sit between two rear isofix seats.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd imagine that the Kia Optima would be a proper 5 seater car.