Console. Charity, Irish-style

2RockMountain

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't think admission to a psychiatric hospital is assured simply by declaring that you feeling suicidal. We all know how under-resourced the clinical psychiatric services are.

Resources aren't an issue where you have private health insurance (paid for by Console, ironically)

suicide_circus

I only give to very small scale charities local to myself which i can see working. ie: the capuchins. I have been hugely cynical of the charity industry for a long time now and the revelations at console do not surprise me. It's a perfect hunting grounds for sociopaths such as Paul Kelly and it is an industry in the truest sense of the word.

Hopefully the psychiatric hospital will do the right thing and remove Kelly's frontal lobe. Problem solved.

Cunning Stunt

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If psychiatrists believe that Paul Kelly needs to be in hospital, then that's where he should be. I hope he gets well soon, and is then dealt with by the authorities.

If he can fool hospital staff into believing he is a doctor for 3 weeks, then I am sure he can fool a psychiatrist also!

velo.2010

About 'Cycle for Suicide' which has been mentioned a few times and by myself in an earlier post. The most recent accounts are for 2014. This appears to be its first full year in operation. e579,000 was raised.

http://www.cycleagainstsuicide.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/annaul_review_2014.pdf

So, basically 50% of its donations went to the funding of 'awareness' campaigns(cost of sales), while the other 50% was spent on operating costs including two staff who were paid about e55,000 each.

Since those accounts, the organisation has grown. The cost of entry for the event has subsequently been increased up to a maximum of e110 and they now employ full time 'event coordinators'. One wonders how much they are now receiving in funds and aproximatley how much goes on 'awareness'.

The accounts for 2015 were due to be released before 30 June according to their own website - there is still no sign of them. I wonder are they afraid of the reaction of donors when they see those accounts in the wake of the Console scandal?

Mary63

You see,I don't get this.The Organisation appears to exist to make people aware of the support for suicide but we all know the support doesn't exist because we have such an appalling Health system.Where do you go in a crisis situation if you don't have health insurance,to the A and E Department and sit there for days waiting to be seen.How long will you wait for a hospital bed and even if you get one will you just be described a cocktail of pills with terrible side effects and which will turn you into a junkie.You will leave hospital then and wait six months to see a health professional in the public system,you will get approximately ten minutes of this persons time and leave with a new prescription.

Mary63

You see,I don't get this.The Organisation appears to exist to make people aware of the support for suicide but we all know the support doesn't exist because we have such an appalling Health system.Where do you go in a crisis situation if you don't have health insurance,to the A and E Department and sit there for days waiting to be seen.How long will you wait for a hospital bed and even if you get one will you just be described a cocktail of pills with terrible side effects and which will turn you into a junkie.You will leave hospital then and wait six months to see a health professional in the public system,you will get approximately ten minutes of this persons time and leave with a new prescription.

Mary63

You see,I don't get this.The Organisation appears to exist to make people aware of the support for suicide but we all know the support doesn't exist because we have such an appalling Health system.Where do you go in a crisis situation if you don't have health insurance,to the A and E Department and sit there for days waiting to be seen.How long will you wait for a hospital bed and even if you get one will you just be described a cocktail of pills with terrible side effects and which will turn you into a junkie.You will leave hospital then and wait six months to see a health professional in the public system,you will get approximately ten minutes of this persons time and leave with a new prescription.

Mary63

You see,I don't get this.The Organisation appears to exist to make people aware of the support for suicide but we all know the support doesn't exist because we have such an appalling Health system.Where do you go in a crisis situation if you don't have health insurance,to the A and E Department and sit there for days waiting to be seen.How long will you wait for a hospital bed and even if you get one will you just be described a cocktail of pills with terrible side effects and which will turn you into a junkie.You will leave hospital then and wait six months to see a health professional in the public system,you will get approximately ten minutes of this persons time and leave with a new prescription.

gctest50

Mary63 wrote: »

You see,I don't get this.The Organisation appears to exist to make people aware of the support for suicide but we all know the support doesn't exist because we have such an appalling Health system.Where do you go in a crisis situation if you don't have health insurance,to the A and E Department and sit there for days waiting to be seen.How long will you wait for a hospital bed and even if you get one will you just be described a cocktail of pills with terrible side effects and which will turn you into a junkie.You will leave hospital then and wait six months to see a health professional in the public system,you will get approximately ten minutes of this persons time and leave with a new prescription.

Sometimes that's what someone may need and then they'll be grand - one size doesn't fit all though for that craic

and then ....... you have this

https://www.transferofvalue.ie

velo.2010

velo.2010 wrote: »

So, basically 50% of its donations went to the funding of 'awareness' campaigns(cost of sales), while the other 50% was spent on operating costs including two staff who were paid about e55,000 each.

That doesn't seem excessive, considering that the main objective of the charity is to raise awareness.

jmayo

bernard0368 wrote: »

Just curious, Has this changed anybodies contributions to charity.
I ask as it has made me think very hard.
...

Yes, just reading the list of top 10 charity executives I have noticed
Dee Ahearn CEO of Barretstown is on €142,800 salary plus €7,500 car allowance and vouched expenses.
She is ranked no2 in the list behind the one in Enable Ireland.
Should have known not to expect much from one of Johnny Ronan’s PR mouthpieces.

I am cancelling my monthly contribution because someone else can help pay her salary and expenses from now on.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

In fairness, a psychiatric hospital won't admit someone for shits and giggles.

Not to act the armchair shrink or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kelly has a personality disorder.

Is being a leeching scumbag a personality disorder now ?

velo.2010

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That doesn't seem excessive, considering that the main objective of the charity is to raise awareness.

Not excessive? 50% of all the money going on expenses. And raising 'awareness', instead of providing actual services, support, or help funding an extension to one of the many homes that shelter mentally vulnerable people. Cycle against suicide does no such thing. So yeah, Console have their merits regarding support but ultimately it was set up as a slush fund.

The 'awareness' thing is much easier to do than the hard graft of providing actual services that really help people. But no, just organise a cycle, print a few t-shirts and give a few talks and boom, there you go - awareness!

How long before someone cops onto another charity trend and mental health is consigned to history as something of a novelty cause when its still very much a serious issue.

velo.2010

velo.2010 wrote: »

Not excessive? 50% of all the money going on expenses.

For clarity, those are operating expenses, and include costs like wages, rent, PRSI contributions, etc. It doesn't strike me as excessive that half an organisation's costs are spent on operating expenses and wages.

You need to dig deeper into the books if you want to find a problem, which I'd doubt exists. In fairness to volunteers, I think it's a shame to bash a charity without having some factual basis to support what you are saying.

And raising 'awareness', instead of providing actual services, support, or help funding an extension to one of the many homes that shelter mentally vulnerable people.

Ok, that's your opinion, but they never claimed to do anything else. And thousands of people are happy to support them on that basis.

brooke 2

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

If he can fool hospital staff into believing he is a doctor for 3 weeks, then I am sure he can fool a psychiatrist also!

What a spineless individual, leaving his wife to face the courts on her own,
combined with all his other skullduggery. :mad:

ToddyDoody

Thank god I never gave them any money?

velo.2010

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

For clarity, those are operating expenses, and include costs like wages, rent, PRSI contributions, etc. It doesn't strike me as excessive that half an organisation's costs are spent on operating expenses and wages.

You need to dig deeper into the books if you want to find a problem, which I'd doubt exists. In fairness to volunteers, I think it's a shame to bash a charity without having some factual basis to support what you are saying.

Ok, that's your opinion, but they never claimed to do anything else. And thousands of people are happy to support them on that basis.

Hardly bashing a charity, simply questioning where the resources go. Please don't put words in my mouth. If you don't mind were the money goes then your far more trusting than me. We'll see just how much they've grown as an organisation in the next financial report - perhaps the operational costs will fall as a percentage of the money raised.

The 'factual basis' is they organise a cycle event that tours Ireland. You have to pay e110 to do half/whole of it. You get a jersey/t -shirt, they organise some talks in schools. Participants have to organise their own stay. If someone has an idea for an event, they must organise it themselves - Cycle against Suicide simply attach themselves to it, using their 'brand' name to attract people to attend. They will print a few posters for your event. They do not offer any support or services to anyone suffering from any mental health disorder.

Please read their FAQ page to realise they do very little in reality.

As for the participants themselves, well I guess many will be wary of signing up to do the event next year in the wake of everything that has and will come out shortly.

Gen.Zhukov

brooke 2 wrote: »

What a spineless individual, leaving his wife to face the courts on her own,
combined with all his other skullduggery. :mad:

I'd never leave her on her own. She's a total babe.

Andalucia

There is way too many charities in operation, whilst the idea behind the majority of them is honourable, the justifcation for so many is questionable

as someone alluded to, its an industry with very little supervision, many of the top dogs on 100k p/a plus expenses

you hear stories like the guys on the streets employed by some charities getting 15 euro an hour plus commission when they sign you up to a direct debit - very little of what you give actually ends up doing any good because of the high expenses - Console just took the biscuit, but I would imagine its not unique if someone analysed the sector in detail

Paul Kelly now hiding behind the doctor - where was the doctor last week when he was renting the storage unit in Naas

velo.2010

velo.2010 wrote: »

Hardly bashing a charity, simply questioning where the resources go.

'Questioning'... you're implying they waste money on expenses, and you say:

velo.2010 wrote: »

they do very little in reality.

Sounds like bashing Cycle for Suicide for no good reason. I presume they are upstanding, conscientious people. It's really quite irresponsible to start bashing anyone here, except perhaps the specific former directors of Console.

Cycle for Suicide have nothing to do with it.

Shint0

velo.2010 wrote: »

The 'factual basis' is they organise a cycle event that tours Ireland. You have to pay e110 to do half/whole of it. You get a jersey/t -shirt, they organise some talks in schools. Participants have to organise their own stay. If someone has an idea for an event, they must organise it themselves - Cycle against Suicide simply attach themselves to it, using their 'brand' name to attract people to attend. They will print a few posters for your event. They do not offer any support or services to anyone suffering from any mental health disorder.

Please read their FAQ page to realise they do very little in reality.

A huge industry has grown up around the funding of charities, unfortunately, where independent operators spot an opportunity to make money off the back of it e.g. recycling banks, chuggers, those boxes of charity sweets in retail environments.

The percentage that goes towards the charities would be quite small in terms of outcome but some charities take whatever they can get from the various initiatives regardless of how small. The vast majority of the population wouldn't have awareness around this such as your example of the Cycle Against Suicide.

If people are going to donate towards a cause they ought to do some research first and consider giving directly rather than vis á vis a commercial entity.

sasta le

1.618 wrote: »

I'd never leave her on her own. She's a total babe.

Shes a robbing scumbag too

The Black Oil

With respect to Paul Kelly's safety and mental health, it's quite possible he was picked up for those reasons - in the event someone attacked him or he was in danger of harming himself. As a fantasist his world would have come crashing down due to what has surfaced, not just the fact the money is now harder to access.

Re the number of charities, here's a breakdown of some from benefacts.

https://en.benefacts.ie/2016/07/05/suicide-nonprofits-ireland-today/

FAILSAFE 00

Insanity defense incoming...

velo.2010

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

'Questioning'... you're implying they waste money on expenses, and you say:


Sounds like bashing Cycle for Suicide for no good reason. I presume they are upstanding, conscientious people. It's really quite irresponsible to start bashing anyone here, except perhaps the specific former directors of Console.

Cycle for Suicide have nothing to do with it.

Do not put words in my mouth. I'm not bashing anyone and your coming across as quite ignorant of what I've posted and many people's understandable suspicion of where their money goes and what it is spent on. I don't doubt the sincerity of the original 'Cycle against Suicide' idea to help spread the message of 'Its OK to not feel OK'. I also doubt anyone is creaming any profit from the charity. I question the current business model and what they really do.

Lady is a tramp

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't think admission to a psychiatric hospital is assured simply by declaring that you feeling suicidal. We all know how under-resourced the clinical psychiatric services are.

I don't think adverse publicity has much to do with it, either.

If psychiatrists believe that Paul Kelly needs to be in hospital, then that's where he should be. I hope he gets well soon, and is then dealt with by the authorities.

St Pats is a private hospital, you can come in on a self-referral basis if you want.

Johnmuck

So, Paul Kelly is currently in a psychiatric hospital.

We are gonna need a big native American Indian and a fluffy pillow.........

gctest50

Ah stop! He just needs to chill out a bit and have a nice relaxing pint.

Of barbiturate.

groovyg

velo.2010 wrote: »

As for the participants themselves, well I guess many will be wary of signing up to do the event next year in the wake of everything that has and will come out shortly.

From reading some of the responses on the CaS cycle event on the cycling forum, I don't think it will deter many from signing up, it seems alot of people sign up to these events for charities as a challenge for themselves and nobody really asks any questions about where the money goes afterwards or how its spent. If you ask questions on the running of these charities / how the money is spent you're made feel bad for asking such questions. There's a warning on that thread now.

Its stomach churning to read the revelations coming out every day about Console ..... how to fund your lifestyle in Ireland set up a charity ! I doubt anything will happen to Paul Kelly as he hides behind the walls of St Pats. He's more likely to get a job in Nama rather than spend time in prison.

Lady is a tramp

gctest50 wrote: »

Ah stop! He just needs to chill out a bit and have a nice relaxing pint.

Of barbiturate.

Apparently the other patients on his ward are fit to kill him! I mean it's taking the piss a bit. After what he's done, coming onto a ward where most patients are genuinely suicidal and have possibly contacted Console in the past!