Console. Charity, Irish-style

velo.2010

velo.2010 wrote: »

Do not put words in my mouth. I'm not bashing anyone and your coming across as quite ignorant of what I've posted and many people's understandable suspicion of where their money goes and what it is spent on. I don't doubt the sincerity of the original 'Cycle against Suicide' idea to help spread the message of 'Its OK to not feel OK'. I also doubt anyone is creaming any profit from the charity. I question the current business model and what they really do.

You've taken it upon yourself to declare that CAS "do very little in reality", and have also sent an unsolicited PM to me criticising the charity founder's motives.

I have no interest in giving you a platform by engaging in such an unnecessary onslaught on Cycle Against Suicide, a very reputable charity; I see you're a regular on the cycling forum, I'm not sure if that is motivating your odd criticisms of Cycle Against Suicide... whatever it is, go and annoy somebody else instead. I'm not interested.

velo.2010

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You've taken it upon yourself to declare that CAS "do very little in reality", and have also sent an unsolicited PM to me criticising the charity founder's motives.

I have no interest in giving you a platform by engaging in such an unnecessary onslaught on Cycle Against Suicide, a very reputable charity; I see you're a regular on the cycling forum, I'm not sure if that is motivating your odd criticisms of Cycle Against Suicide... whatever it is, go and annoy somebody else instead. I'm not interested.

After admitting to robbing from a supermarket recently, you don't have much credibility to be honest.

Sapphire

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

Apparently the other patients on his ward are fit to kill him! I mean it's taking the piss a bit. After what he's done, coming onto a ward where most patients are genuinely suicidal and have possibly tried but been unable to contact contacted Console in the past! Because PK removed 2 of the four helplines due to "lack of funding"

Fixed your post for ya!

I see that his sisters signature was apparently forged on the paperwork. So I wonder who trousered the salary she was supposedly getting...

Sapphire

Sapphire wrote: »

I see that his sisters signature was apparently forged on the paperwork. So I wonder who trousered the salary she was supposedly getting...

The ordinary directors of a charity (non-executive directors) are not allowed to be paid, as a condition of Revenue granting the organisation its charity status.

Paul Kelly was the Managing Director, which is an executive role, so he was entitled to a salary.

livedadream

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The ordinary directors of a charity (non-executive directors) are not allowed to be paid, as a condition of Revenue granting the organisation its charity status.

Paul Kelly was the Managing Director, which is an executive role, so he was entitled to a salary.

i dont know if thats the point you intended to make but i think the whole issue here isnt that he was taking a salary its that he was robbing the charity blind

and defrauding people...

livedadream

livedadream wrote: »

i dont know if thats the point you intended to make but i think the whole issue here isnt that he was taking a salary its that he was robbing the charity blind

The poster asked who took the sister's salary, if she didn't know she was on the board.

My reply is that there are no salaries paid to people in that role anyway, which is a rule of Revenue, so the question just doesn't arise.

Cunning Stunt

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

Apparently the other patients on his ward are fit to kill him! I mean it's taking the piss a bit. After what he's done, coming onto a ward where most patients are genuinely suicidal and have possibly contacted Console in the past!

where did you read / hear this? Because I was hoping that would be the case!

Lady is a tramp

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

where did you read / hear this? Because I was hoping that would be the case!

I was an in-patient there until today. Word tends to get around about high profile patients!

velo.2010

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I was an in-patient there until today. Word tends to get around about high profile patients!

I hope your OK.

I wouldn't wish ill health on anyone, including Paul Kelly. Hopefully, he recovers quickly and has the gumption to truthfully explain his reasons for doing what he did. Whether he serves a sentence or not, he should never be allowed to operate a company under any circumstances in future.

gctest50

Whatever about the money that is now spent on hotels n clothes etc

I'd be a bit more concerned about what duties he carried out during the three weeks the papers say he was pretending to be a doctor

Sound Bite

chicorytip wrote: »

His motivation for setting up Console appears to have been genuine - his younger sister took her own life. The level and quality of support provided by the highly competent and dedicated counselling staff appears, by all accounts, to have been excellent. It is safe to assume, therefore, that there are many people who would not be alive today were it not for the help of Console and other similar organisations. This should not be lost sight of. Kelly's betrayal of his organisations supporters, staff and clientele is profound and unforgivable but pales into insignificance when contrasted with the sustained and systematic fraudulent criminality perpetrated by certain members of our banking fraternity over the past decade.

I have to disagree. His sister committed suicide and this opportunistic cowboy decided to exploit her death for his own benefit. A disgrace to her memory and lowest of the low imo.

Panda

^agreed.

Another poster suggested that if a responsible charity was given the money that Console squandered they could have saved many more lives. Keeping phones open for calls, paying of hospital beds fees etc.

Paul Kelly seems like the ring leader in all this, but where are the others?Patricia Kelly? Shes complicit.
Tim Kelly the **** apple didn't fall far from the tree. He's complicit.
Joan McKenna denying ever being a director. Bollocks. How could you not be aware of their spending. It was her brother and he was driving an Audi Q5 around.(30k to 50k) Shes complicit.
What about the other directors? Maybe auditors didn't see the spending but what were these ****ers doing?

Mary63

People who require inpatient stay in a physiatric hospital would generally be very ill,they don't check in and then check out to sort out their files,why isn't Paul Kelly being independently assessed.We know he is a con artist capable of bringing mental health experts together from all over the world and no one thought to ask how come he was an expert in
suicide without any medical qualifications apart from the ones he made up.

Wouldn't you be just mortified if you were the one organising fund raising events for Console,asking your neighbours,colleagues and friends for money and probably asking them many times.These people would have given because it would appear churlish to say no,they probably hadn't much to give but gave it anyway.

Everyone involved in management in console has questions to answer,did Kelly put in weak managers though who wouldn't stand up to him,he appears to have had total control of the organisation delegating nothing.Most CEOs for example wouldn't be opening post and wouldn't be involved in the payment of salaries.No one in the organisation seemed to have questioned anything,if the money wasn't there to pay bills it was a matter of waiting for Paul to sort it out,people were even happy to wait for their wages,why would any employee be happy with this when they clearly knew hundreds of thousands were going into Consoles accounts.

The organisation in its entirety should be disbanded today.

Shint0

Mary63 wrote: »

no one thought to ask how come he was an expert in suicide without any medical qualifications apart from the ones he made up.

Establishing a charitable organisation after a family member has died from suicide isn't a motive that the majority of reasonable-minded people would question.

It happens a lot if somebody dies in unusual circumstances or perhaps from a rare health condition where family members set up a charity or foundation. It may be a coping mechanism to deal with their own complex grief to try to do something practical and bring more social awareness to the issue without being disingenuous.

Panda

Panda wrote: »

Another poster suggested that if a responsible charity was given the money that Console squandered they could have saved many more lives. Keeping phones open for calls, paying of hospital beds fees etc.

Responsible charity? The HSE audited Console so they knew what was going on. The only logical explanation as to why they didn't act on the information and continued to fund the charity is that there was nothing abnormal going on in the grand scheme of things, and that this kind of stuff is par for the course.

I'm sure it's par for the course in the HSE too.

MilesMorales1

Surely it'd be better to disband console now, and for the good people to make something new? Console's name is gonna be ****ing mud forever now, might as well build something new without his grimy fingers all over it.

2RockMountain

Shint0 wrote: »

Establishing a charitable organisation after a family member has died from suicide isn't a motive that the majority of reasonable-minded people would question.

It happens a lot if somebody dies in unusual circumstances or perhaps from a rare health condition where family members set up a charity or foundation. It may be a coping mechanism to deal with their own complex grief to try to do something practical and bring more social awareness to the issue without being disingenuous.

Yes, it is well-intentioned, and may well be part of coping. It needs to be challenged respectfully, as they would often be far better off with providing funds to an existing reputable charity, rather than starting out from scratch again.

But ultimately, if someone wants to set up their own charity, that is their own business. The real question is to how HSE or others provide funding to these bodies. HSE should only provide funding where there is a real need, and where they are confident that the organisation is providing value. Console certainly failed the 2nd part.

aphex™

A lot of companies are run like this. I've seen trips to Tommy Hilfiger entered into accounts. Uh, we used the wrong cc. Yeah. Right.

Anybody remember the Fás scandal?

Shint0

2RockMountain wrote: »

But ultimately, if someone wants to set up their own charity, that is their own business.

Yes, you are right it is their own business if they set up privately at the outset but sometimes private charities grow and expand which in some cases lead them down the road of applying for public funding. My point was that by this stage if a charity is already established there are no background checks to establish motive where if there had been in this case would it not have been picked up on that Paul Kelly was a shady character who had previously tried to pretend he was a doctor

The Jack and Jill Foundation would come to mind as an example of charity which started out as result of personal grief and would now rely on public funding for their administrative tasks. As you rightly point out charitable causes ought be based on need and in their case they do provide a vital service. To my knowledge there have been no dodgy dealings within that organisation and they seem to be always very forthcoming and accountable regarding their funding and expenditure.

jmayo

Shint0 wrote: »

Yes, you are right it is their own business if they set up privately at the outset but sometimes private charities grow and expand which in some cases lead them down the road of applying for public funding. My point was that by this stage if a charity is already established there are no background checks to establish motive where if there had been in this case would it not have been picked up on that Paul Kelly was a shady character who had previously tried to pretend he was a doctor

The Jack and Jill Foundation would come to mind as an example of charity which started out as result of personal grief and would now rely on public funding for their administrative tasks. As you rightly point out charitable causes ought be based on need and in their case they do provide a vital service. To my knowledge there have been no dodgy dealings within that organisation and they seem to be always very forthcoming and accountable regarding their funding and expenditure.

Jonathan Irwin was on 90k a year as CEO, but when you look at the bigger picture he took no salary for over 6 years.
He comes across as one of the real altruists in a quagmire of entitled wantabee CEOs and charity bosses.
Likewise I think with Adi Roche.
She takes no salary.

People may say that Paul Kelly set up Console with good intentions in memory of his sister, but call me a cynic seeing what he and his family were at laterly and his previous con games one has to wonder if he did not spot the path to easy riches from the very start.

And looking at his form I would bet his sojourn in St Pats is a deflection and avoidance scam.
He and his family truly look like an odious bunch.

Cunning Stunt

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Surely it'd be better to disband console now, and for the good people to make something new? Console's name is gonna be ****ing mud forever now, might as well build something new without his grimy fingers all over it.

Looks like its gonna be wound down now alright, according to RTE
http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0707/800838-console/

The Black Oil

Not surprising, no way of getting out from under the scandal, really. Hopefully the people the front line staff support for won't find the transition too stressful.

2RockMountain

Shint0 wrote: »

Yes, you are right it is their own business if they set up privately at the outset but sometimes private charities grow and expand which in some cases lead them down the road of applying for public funding. My point was that by this stage if a charity is already established there are no background checks to establish motive where if there had been in this case would it not have been picked up on that Paul Kelly was a shady character who had previously tried to pretend he was a doctor

Yes, it would be interesting to see if Kelly had gone through the same kind of Garda vetting as any of the clinical professionals in his organisation would go through.

jmayo wrote: »

Jonathan Irwin was on 90k a year as CEO, but when you look at the bigger picture he took no salary for over 6 years.
He comes across as one of the real altruists in a quagmire of entitled wantabee CEOs and charity bosses.

Jack and Jill have done great work, but I think the line between the charity and the CEO got a little blurred at times.

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/7028547/Jack-Jill-founder-Jonathan-Irwin-admits-donor-cash-spent-on-Seanad-lobbying-bid.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/teen-charity-says-treasurer-misappropriated-161000-34863626.html

A State-funded charity providing supports to disadvantaged teenagers has claimed a board member misappropriated up to €161,000.

The allegation was made in proceedings initiated yesterday by Carline Learning Centre against its treasurer, Greg Walsh.

It is claimed most of the cash was paid through cheques to Mr Walsh's business, Walsh & Company Accountants.

Some of the diverted money was supposed to have been used to cover PAYE and PRSI obligations. But it is claimed the cash was not handed over to the Revenue Commissioners, leaving the Dublin-based charity owing €72,500 in taxes.

The charity, which receives over €500,000-a-year from State bodies and has offices in Lucan, was given permission by the High Court to serve proceedings on Mr Walsh at short notice.

Lady is a tramp

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

After what he's done, coming onto a ward where most patients are genuinely suicidal and have possibly contacted Console in the past!

As far as I am aware, Console is/was an organisation that counsels those whose family members have died as a result of suicide, and wasn't a suicide helpline, per se.

maudgonner

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

As far as I am aware, Console is/was an organisation that counsels those whose family members have died as a result of suicide, and wasn't a suicide helpline, per se.

No, they also have a suicide helpline. From their website:

Whatever the reason for your visit, we are very glad you are here.

If you are concerned for yourself, rest assured that you have found a place of safety and compassion.
If you have suffered a bereavement through suicide, we wish to provide you with hope, comfort and compassion.
If you are concerned for someone close to you, or would like to find more information we hope we can provide you with the direction and support that you need.

rufus_firefly

Anyone want to help fund my new charity? All donors to Radioactive babies of Romania will be guaranteed that 5% of their proceeds will be sent to helping these poor children. The rest will go toward essential maintenance costs and buying chicken suits for volunteers to wear running in marathons.

brightspark

VincePP wrote: »

There should be different categories for differen type of "charity" groups.

Being described as a "Charity" probably doesn't suit the likes of John of God, Rehab, St. michales House, CRC and a host of private schools, hospitals etc.

Not sure about the others but St John of God has certainly in the past wanted to be seen as a charity when collecting donations.

Shint0

brightspark wrote: »

Not sure about the others but St John of God has certainly in the past wanted to be seen as a charity when collecting donations.

It is a charity and has charitable status but they are involved in the provision of a huge array of different services so their operations would be almost similar to a multinational conglomerate.

riclad

I thought console was an xbox,
i would not give a cent to a charity i never heard of.
I think the hse pays money to charity to do certain work,
maybe they dont care if the ceo gets paid 100k, plus.
If the work is carried as per the contract agreed on .
How many civil servants have retired on very large pensions ?
Look at td,s and senators getting large wages and pensions after
a few years work .
Someone in the civil service or the government decided all eu documents
must be translated into irish ,
Is there someone in ireland living in a cave that does not read english ,
but wants to read eu documents in irish?
Theres maybe another 100 schemes like this wasting money ,
but the public does not know about it.