How to buy a puppy (I know, I know....)

SarahMollie

So firstly, I know I shouldnt be trying to buy a puppy. I'm all about "adopt, don't buy" but there are some specific circumstances here that are making that a bit impossible.

I'm trying to help my parents get a new dog. They're both retired so have all the time in the world to devote to a puppy but they are getting older so something huge and completely boisterous isn't really a viable option. They have a nice big house and big back garden thats fenced in so in a lot of ways, we have a lot to offer a dog. My parents do have 3 cats and thats a bit of a complicating factor.

Up to now, we've always had a dog and have always adopted. However, we've had two bad experiences in our last attempts at getting a dog.

1. About 3 years ago, my mam heard about a charity rescuing whippets/grayhounds and went to visit them. She came home with a beautiful female whippet, about 18months old. We were all mad about her. I used to call in all the time so visit her.

However, it became apparent that the dog had probably been trained to chase small animals and one day, after about 4/5 months of trying our best with her, she managed to get out the back garden unsupervised and killed one of our cats. Cue much heartbreak. The vet wanted her put down but we managed to rehome to a family who ran a whippet rescue down the country, even in light of them knowing her flaws. They still send us christmas cards and pictures of her so that worked out about as well as it could have.

2. Last summer we decided to try again. We went to all the usual shelters and eventually found a dog in a small rural animal foundation. The dog had been rescued from a back garden having almost starved to death. They scantuary got him back into reasonable condition and we brought him home. He was a cockerX, again about 18 months old He was literally the most amazing animal we've ever had, everyone idolised him. He put on so much condition, and was so happy, you wouldnt recognise him from the first time we saw him.

Then disaster struck. He was in kennels for 1 night last feb when my parents were down the country. The next evening, my mam noticed him being off his food (v.unusual) and some blood in his stool. He was brought to our vets first thing the next morning, and after 4 days of him not responding, he was moved to UCD as an emergency, but they never managed to get him under control and he died about 10days later. They still don't really know what happened to him, and honestly it still makes me tearful just thinking about him and how much he must have suffered. UCD were still so confused as to what went wrong (at least 10 vets must have seen him) that they did a postmortem and the best they cound come up with was that he had an underlying inflammatory bowel condition (similar to Crohns in humans) and that he'd contracted a drug resistant ecoli infecton and just couldnt fight it. We would have thrown any amount of money at getting him better but it seems it was impossible.

After much soul searching we've all decided that we need a dog and we should try again. We've been to all the usual charities, although what we want is coloured by the experiences above.

It seems like a lot of the dogs needing homes these days are huskies, whippets, and other hunting breeds. We still have 3 cats so we can't go for anything with that hunters instict. Also, my parents are nearing 70, so a very large dog isnt a viable option. We saw collie and pointer pups at <snip> but with our sensible heads on, we know they're not good options.

So, we've come around to thinking that just this once, we might need to buy to get a good fit. I've heard horrible stories about puppy farms however, and the thought of inadvertently getting a dog with more health issues is terrifying.

How do you identify a reputable dealer? We're looking for a small/medium sized dog, preferably a puppy so it can learn not to chase the cats at an early age. Some sort of spaniel/crossbreed would be fine as we don't care about showing/breeding.

Any advice/tips welcome!

cocker5

Just on the buying a puppy OP.. you mentioned your parents are nearing 70, are you sure they want or would be able for a puppy?

I have to say OP at 38 the last thing id want is a puppy - house training, getting up all hours of the night, nipping, hyperness, puppy classes, lead training etc and at 70 that's a lot to take on.

also due to their age - dogs can live 15 / 20 years god forbid if something happened to your parents what would happen to the dog

Its up to you you know your parents best, but it wouldn't be for many 70 year old's just something to consider.

cocker5

Sorry OP just on the spaniel cross breed you mentioned.. i have an 11 year old cocker - amazing dog but was a NIGHTMARE for the first 2 years plus... hyper as hell... wrecked EVERYTHING... he needed TONS of exercise as all workings breeds do.. even now at 11 we do around 35 / 40km a week with him no bother.

Ms Doubtfire1

why don't you go for something small and a little bit more placid like a middle aged dachshound?

SarahMollie

cocker5 wrote: »

Just on the buying a puppy OP.. you mentioned your parents are nearing 70, are you sure they want or would be able for a puppy?

I have to say OP at 38 the last thing id want is a puppy - house training, getting up all hours of the night, nipping, hyperness, puppy classes, lead training etc and at 70 that's a lot to take on.

also due to their age - dogs can live 15 / 20 years god forbid if something happened to your parents what would happen to the dog

Its up to you you know your parents best, but it wouldn't be for many 70 year old's just something to consider.

True, and I now how it sounds, but late 60's arent what they once were. They're both healthy and active. People are always surprised at their actual ages.

But that said, their ages are also making this a bit more urgent. I honestly think they're well able for it now, but obviously that won't always be the case, so waiting indefinitely for the perfect animal to come up through a re homing center could take a long time.

My mam is anxious to get something sorted during the summer so we have time to do some puppy training before the short evenings set in.

Myself and my partner also live in Dublin so and we're up for a bit of sharing the load, but arent in a position to have one full time as we both work office hours during the week.

Ms Doubtfire1

in addition: Many dogs can be trained to leave cats alone. I have a rescue lurcher and, whilst he did go after the cats initially, he very quickly learned what NO means (now, in all fairness I have a very 'big' voice and me roaring on top of my lungs stops most living things in their tracks) but my lurcher now has no interest in anything running anymore. Having said that,it does require a good amount of work and vigilance which is probably something your parents couldn't do. But I would also echo the sentiment of other posters: at their age, a puppy is really not a good idea...

SarahMollie

cocker5 wrote: »

Sorry OP just on the spaniel cross breed you mentioned.. i have an 11 year old cocker - amazing dog but was a NIGHTMARE for the first 2 years plus... hyper as hell... wrecked EVERYTHING... he needed TONS of exercise as all workings breeds do.. even now at 11 we do around 35 / 40km a week with him no bother.

We're a bit fixated on spaniels as thats what our last dog was... yes he was bananas and tore the house apart at times, but he was worth it.

We are open to most small breeds, although maybe not terriers as they're not known for getting on with cats.

Really what I'm looking for help here with is how to find a reputable dealer and how to do my due diligence.

Cherry Blossom

First off, if you want a crossbreed, you are looking at another rescue if you want it to come from a reputable source.

If you want to buy a pedigree puppy you need to first of all decide on a breed that suits. All puppies are boisterous and hard work. In the event that the dog out lives your parents what will happen to it? If a family member is going to step up to the plate if that happens it needs to be a breed that suits their circumstances too.

Once the breed is decided the process of research begins, contacting breed clubs, finding breeders that you consider ethical, being added to waiting lists and waiting (for months or years) until a suitable puppy comes available.

Some questions to answer when deciding on breed:
How much exercise will the dog get?
How much effort and money are you willing to put into grooming the dog?
Will there be children visiting and how old are they?

Spaniels (and all gun dogs) are hunting breeds, as are terriers and hounds. With that said all breeds have the potential to chase cats and all breeds have an example of an individual dog that lives happily and peacefully with resident cats. Proper introductions are really important regardless of what breed or cross the dog is.

Ms Doubtfire1

if you are dead set on buying, your starting point is the irish kennelclub.
Research your selected breeder.Look at pedigrees for signs of inbreeding. ask to see both parents with the litter and see how they are kept. ask how many litters the mother has per year.Look at the set up. Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT buy a puppy on any internet advertising site, do not buy a puppy at the side of the road, do not buy a puppy without history, do not buy a puppy with out vaccination and micro chipping papers...thats the first few things springing to mind

SarahMollie

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

in addition: Many dogs can be trained to leave cats alone. I have a rescue lurcher and, whilst he did go after the cats initially, he very quickly learned what NO means (now, in all fairness I have a very 'big' voice and me roaring on top of my lungs stops most living things in their tracks) but my lurcher now has no interest in anything running anymore. Having said that,it does require a good amount of work and vigilance which is probably something your parents couldn't do. But I would also echo the sentiment of other posters: at their age, a puppy is really not a good idea...

Regarding our whippet, we tried everything to get to stop chasing the cats. Training, animal behaviourists, you name it, money no object.

They all came back and said the same thing, that whoever had her before us had actively trained her to chase small animals, and thats very hard to undo. It was more than just her instincts.

My mam disclosed the fact that we had cats before she took her and the charity in question were very dismissive and clearly just were only interested in getting animals out the door. She was never a good fit for us, no matter how much we loved her.

Ms Doubtfire1

Unfortunately there are charities like that,i had my own run ins with a few of them, but they are not all bad.But again, training a former hunting animal that is actually blooded (as it's called) is very very hard and not something that always succeeds.I have no history on my boy, all i can say is it worked with him. And you did the right thing with your whippet not putting her to sleep.it wasn't her fault...she just did what some looser taught her to do.

SarahMollie

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

First off, if you want a crossbreed, you are looking at another rescue if you want it to come from a reputable source.

If you want to buy a pedigree puppy you need to first of all decide on a breed that suits. All puppies are boisterous and hard work. In the event that the dog out lives your parents what will happen to it? If a family member is going to step up to the plate if that happens it needs to be a breed that suits their circumstances too.

Once the breed is decided the process of research begins, contacting breed clubs, finding breeders that you consider ethical, being added to waiting lists and waiting (for months or years) until a suitable puppy comes available.

Some questions to answer when deciding on breed:
How much exercise will the dog get?
How much effort and money are you willing to put into grooming the dog?
Will there be children visiting and how old are they?

Spaniels (and all gun dogs) are hunting breeds, as are terriers and hounds. With that said all breeds have the potential to chase cats and all breeds have an example of an individual dog that lives happily and peacefully with resident cats. Proper introductions are really important regardless of what breed or cross the dog is.

Actually don't care if its a cross breed or not, was just empahsising that a purebred is not a priority.

The priority is getting a dog that doesn't turn out to half Great Dane and therefore the size of a small horse.

We've given the puppy/older dog question a lot of consideration (we've been looking for over 2 months) We already picked out 2 dogs that we thought might fit, but thankfully the charities cat tested them and both revealed problems, so they ruled us out for those two dogs. Its only out of desperation that we're looking at buying.

The dogs we had when I was younger, we always got as puppies and the cats were able to establish the pecking order, and we never had any problems after that.

SarahMollie

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

if you are dead set on buying, your starting point is the irish kennelclub.
Research your selected breeder.Look at pedigrees for signs of inbreeding. ask to see both parents with the litter and see how they are kept. ask how many litters the mother has per year.Look at the set up. Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT buy a puppy on any internet advertising site, do not buy a puppy at the side of the road, do not buy a puppy without history, do not buy a puppy with out vaccination and micro chipping papers...thats the first few things springing to mind

Thanks thats really helpful.

I wouldnt have thought about asking to see the father with the litter, because I always thought that the male dogs usually don't live with the family?

I know cousins of mine once had a mini dachshund who they used to rent out (I'm sure theres a proper term for this) to others with female that they wanted to breed.

Ms Doubtfire1

some breeders do, some don't. I for one would always want to see both parents and wouldn't go near them if they don't give me access. If the male is not resident, ask to see where he lives. Unfortunately with backyard breeding rampant in Ireland I'm always better safe than sorry. I've also pm'd you a link to a reputable rescue, focusing on dachshunds.

Cherry Blossom

Without knowing who they are, if two charities have cat tested dogs for you, I would be inclined to stick with them for a while longer and see if they can come up with a suitable dog for you. Have you considered asking them if fostering with a view to adoption would be an option? This way you could 'test-drive' a potential dog with no commitment and no guilt if not suitable. The worst that will have happened is the dog got to stay in a comfy home for a period of time instead of kennels.

Realistically, it takes a lot more time and effort to find a good breeder than it does to wait for a suitable rescue to come up.

SarahMollie

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Without knowing who they are, if two charities have cat tested dogs for you, I would be inclined to stick with them for a while longer and see if they can come up with a suitable dog for you. Have you considered asking them if fostering with a view to adoption would be an option? This way you could 'test-drive' a potential dog with no commitment and no guilt if not suitable. The worst that will have happened is the dog got to stay in a comfy home for a period of time instead of kennels.

Realistically, it takes a lot more time and effort to find a good breeder than it does to wait for a suitable rescue to come up.

Thanks, and really we're only looking at buying as an alternative, we're not 100% convinced that its the right way to go. I posted because I want to know how to approach it if we do decide to go that route.

Altogether we've gone to 6 charities across the Leinster region over the past 2 months, all of whom have our details on file for both adoption and fostering with a view to adopting. 3 of them have even come to do preemptive home checks.

I guess we're just a bit surprised that we've not been more successful yet, so thats where the talk of buying has come from.

muddypaws

There are so many pups in rescue. Actually OP, I'm going to send you a pm, I know of a rescue in the midlands that has some small pups desperately looking for homes.

Cherry Blossom

What breed would you be looking for OP? Is it a Springer? If we know that we can better direct you what to look for.

Evac101

Is that the one based in Laois Muddypaws? If not I'll pass their details through too if the OP wants them. (Having had a hugely positive adoption experience with them recently)

SarahMollie

Really not too fussed about breeds, just nothing too big and nothing famous for the "must chase anything small and furry I see" instinct.

We definitely have a soft spot for either cocker or springer spaniels (or their X's), but we'd be easily moved from that if we found the right dog.

We actually applied to <snip> for one of those puppies that was seized from the ferry in Scotland but I've just had an email back to say that they're all gone

SarahMollie

All PM's welcome.

I'm surprised at the lack of pups we've come accros in the charities we've been too so far. So many huskies and husky X's, and they're just beautiful, but just too big!

Ms Doubtfire1

not a breed for elderly people anyway..they tend to run I've heard..a lot.
Did a few quick searches, found some younger dogs at a reputable rescue, but will hold off for now-you're going to be swamped with PM's finding pups when Muddypaws and Cherryblosoom get involved...:-)

muddypaws

Evac101 wrote: »

Is that the one based in Laois Muddypaws? If not I'll pass their details through too if the OP wants them. (Having had a hugely positive adoption experience with them recently)

No, its a very small group around Longford. So pass the Laois details on

SarahMollie wrote: »

All PM's welcome.

I'm surprised at the lack of pups we've come accros in the charities we've been too so far. So many huskies and husky X's, and they're just beautiful, but just too big!

Oh I know, I have 2 current foster huskies, another one coming at the weekend, and a malamute just here for a week while her foster family have a well earned holiday. As well as my own dogs, the majority of whom are rescue huskies.

Cherry Blossom

Where you start looking to buy depends what the breed is OP. So let's say you want a Springer.

This is the breed club contact details:
http://ikc-ie.access.secure-ssl-servers.info/dog-competitions/dog-shows/show-dates/english-springer-spaniel-club-ireland-0

Before contacting them you would research what health conditions apply to springers and what tests are done on parents to ensure they don't have any conditions that can be passed on to pups. E.g. see here:
http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/english-springer-spaniel/

So you contact the breed club and ask about breeders who test for the various health problems.

You contact the breeders and ask all your questions, they ask you questions. If it goes well they may want your parents to visit them. If both parties are happy, the breeder may have a waiting list for their pups. So basically you then wait until they have a pup for you. Before handing over money make sure you see all the relevant paperwork - pedigrees, registration papers, health test results.

There are breed specific forums for some breeds. Some breed clubs have websites (the Springer club doesn't). Some club websites have links to members own websites etc.

SarahMollie

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Where you start looking to buy depends what the breed is OP. So let's say you want a Springer.

This is the breed club contact details:
http://ikc-ie.access.secure-ssl-servers.info/dog-competitions/dog-shows/show-dates/english-springer-spaniel-club-ireland-0

Before contacting them you would research what health conditions apply to springers and what tests are done on parents to ensure they don't have any conditions that can be passed on to pups. E.g. see here:
http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/english-springer-spaniel/

So you contact the breed club and ask about breeders who test for the various health problems.

You contact the breeders and ask all your questions, they ask you questions. If it goes well they may want your parents to visit them. If both parties are happy, the breeder may have a waiting list for their pups. So basically you then wait until they have a pup for you. Before handing over money make sure you see all the relevant paperwork - pedigrees, registration papers, health test results.

There are breed specific forums for some breeds. Some breed clubs have websites (the Springer club doesn't). Some club websites have links to members own websites etc.

Sounds like very solid advice. I'll begin my research while at the same time running down a few new leads that I've picked up on this thread

henryporter

From experience I wouldn't take a present of an IKC breeder approved dog - they are completely over bred and prone to any number of congenital health problems. Stick with the mongrels and they should at least remain healthy and your parents will remain happy.

No matter what breed of dog they end up with, the younger it is the more exercise they will require, so maybe an older animal would be better?

Finally smaller dogs will get in under your feet more often - the last thing you'd like to hear is one of your parents tripping over the dog (we have two and they are constantly hovering trying to trip us up :-) as falls at their age are hard to recover from.

So I would for a mid sized, middle aged mutt from the pound. (Can't stress enough that IKC breeders are not to be trusted - and of course I risk being taken to task for that but after looking after a pure bred German Shepherd who suffered from Megaesophagus for many years I would never go near a breeder again).

Springwell

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

some breeders do, some don't. I for one would always want to see both parents and wouldn't go near them if they don't give me access. If the male is not resident, ask to see where he lives. Unfortunately with backyard breeding rampant in Ireland I'm always better safe than sorry. I've also pm'd you a link to a reputable rescue, focusing on dachshunds.

I wouldn't expect to see the father with the pups - I'd want to see his show record, photos etc. The pup I most recently bought (Springer) the Bitch was in Cork and the Dog in Antrim, both dogs have performance records (working rather than show type) and I'd seen the father competing.

I feel I must wade in in defence of retired Greyhounds. Not Whippets or Lurchers, as they are entirely different breeds. The first retired greyhound I had was a coursing bitch and was just about the laziest thing on Earth. I have since had 3 track ones. 2 were dogs and my current one a bitch. She is 10 years old now and is lying at my feet as I type! We got her through the Irish Greyhound Boards Retired section. She is so easy to groom. I take her to the vet once a year to have her teeth and nails done and get her booster. Otherwise just let her out for a wee every few hours and a walk every morning (because you'd never get her out after dinner!)

It always amazes me to hear how many "rescued" dogs had been abused in their previous lives! Don't rule out a rescue or a greyhound!

John_Rambo

Hi thread starter.

The problems your parents previous dogs had are not exclusive to rescue dogs.

Any thorough bred dog could be a chaser with a strong hunt instinct and it's more likely that a thorough bred dog will catch infections! "Pure breeds" tend to be weaker and have problems from inbreeding. The gang in the hunting and shooting forum wouldn't touch them with a barge pole and the ones they breed are pure hunt/point/retrieve dogs. Very driven.

From experience I'd avoid breeders of any kind. I'd consider IKC papers to be a guaranteed stamp of ill health, large vet fees and heartbreak. Go for a small to medium sized, older, mixed breed dog from a reputable rescue/sanctuary.

From the sounds of it you and your family are offering an excellent home to a dog. There's no need for someone to create that dog. That dog is already out there pining for that home.

Millem

OP I find puppies too much hard work tbh. Teeth like little razors :eek: older dogs are soooo much easier I have fostered puppies and honestly can say when it comes to us getting another dog it will be an older rescue who has been in a foster home. We only ever used to get pups as we had two other dogs ourselves.

We don't foster anymore but I am sure there is every age/breed dog out there now in rescue. If dogs were in foster home they will be able to tell you personality etc. Sorry to bang on about getting a rescue. All our dogs were all rescues so no experience with breeders.

Nothing against good breeders. its the hard work of puppyhood that I am against

Knine

henryporter wrote: »

From experience I wouldn't take a present of an IKC breeder approved dog - they are completely over bred and prone to any number of congenital health problems. Stick with the mongrels and they should at least remain healthy and your parents will remain happy.

.

Really? What is an IKC Breeder Approved dog?

What a load of trollop. How much experience have you got? Mongrels are not always healthier. My current mongrel is full of health issues. My collie cross died of heart failure aged 3. My pedigree dogs that I specialise in will very likely outlive all your mongrels. Yes there are pedigree breeds with health issues but Reputable breeders are doing a lot of work on this, who health tests their mongrels or documents any health issues? Certainly with the current trend of back yard 'Greeders' churning out puppies, there are lots of health & temperament issues following along.

Overbred? Yes again I think you mean puppy farmers, certainly not reputable breeders.

Springwell

John_Rambo wrote: »

The gang in the hunting and shooting forum wouldn't touch them with a barge pole and the ones they breed are pure hunt/point/retrieve dogs. Very driven.

Seriously? I work gundogs both rough shooting and on large commercial shoots and I know very few working dogs who are not pure bred/KC reg and those are usually Springer/Cocker crosses.

Hellrazer

cocker5 wrote: »

I have to say OP at 38 the last thing id want is a puppy - house training, getting up all hours of the night, nipping, hyperness, puppy classes, lead training etc and at 70 that's a lot to take on.
.

Im 41 and love nothing better than training a new puppy.I was 39 when we got the newfie and that was fun.

borderlinemeath

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im 41 and love nothing better than training a new puppy.I was 39 when we got the newfie and that was fun.

And while the OPs parents don't want anything huge, IMO, a lovely laid back newfie would be a far better fit than a dog with the energy and exercise commitments of a cocker or a springer. Even though I would think a springer would have a higher exercise drive, IMO they are easier to recall train so a better chance of letting them off lead. I find cockers will be far more stubborn and nose driven so that bit harder to get a 100% recall. And also harder to find a decent breeder, most of the recent cockers I know that have been sourced in the republic are slightly neurotic!

From experience I wouldn't take a present of an IKC breeder approved dog - they are completely over bred and prone to any number of congenital health problems. Stick with the mongrels and they should at least remain healthy and your parents will remain happy.

From experience I'd avoid breeders of any kind. I'd consider IKC papers to be a guaranteed stamp of ill health, large vet fees and heartbreak. Go for a small to medium sized, older, mixed breed dog from a reputable rescue/sanctuary.

Where do you think mongrels come from? Is there a mystery pool of healthy dogs that only breed to produce mongrels? Logically thinking about it they are prone to more problems than a lot of pure breeds. Firstly, they are the product of either roaming dogs (who's owners don't give a damn for their health or welfare) or deliberately bred for money by byb and they certainly don't health test. There are very few "accidental" litters although that's what they're all called when advertised. A cross bred dog is just as likely to possess genetic health issues passed on from unknown/dodgy parentage as a puppy farmed/byb dog.

Science and statistics also disagree with your anecdotal evidence. While some pure bred dogs will suffer from breed specific problems due to line breeding and inbreeding in previous generations, cross breeds will suffer from just as many cancers, epilepsy, joint issues and heart issues as they pure bred parents.

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/health-of-purebred-vs-mixed-breed-dogs-the-data

There are certain breeds that have been destroyed by breeders such as the GSD,(hips) Bulldogs, boxers (or any brachycephalic dog really) but there is no scientific evidence to suggest that all breeds are deemed healthier than crosses.

cocker5

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And while the OPs parents don't want anything huge, IMO, a lovely laid back newfie would be a far better fit than a dog with the energy and exercise commitments of a cocker or a springer. Even though I would think a springer would have a higher exercise drive, IMO they are easier to recall train so a better chance of letting them off lead. I find cockers will be far more stubborn and nose driven so that bit harder to get a 100% recall. And also harder to find a decent breeder, most of the recent cockers I know that have been sourced in the republic are slightly neurotic!

Where do you think mongrels come from? Is there a mystery pool of healthy dogs that only breed to produce mongrels? Logically thinking about it they are prone to more problems than a lot of pure breeds. Firstly, they are the product of either roaming dogs (who's owners don't give a damn for their health or welfare) or deliberately bred for money by byb and they certainly don't health test. There are very few "accidental" litters although that's what they're all called when advertised. A cross bred dog is just as likely to possess genetic health issues passed on from unknown/dodgy parentage as a puppy farmed/byb dog.

Science and statistics also disagree with your anecdotal evidence. While some pure bred dogs will suffer from breed specific problems due to line breeding and inbreeding in previous generations, cross breeds will suffer from just as many cancers, epilepsy, joint issues and heart issues as they pure bred parents.

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/health-of-purebred-vs-mixed-breed-dogs-the-data

There are certain breeds that have been destroyed by breeders such as the GSD,(hips) Bulldogs, boxers (or any brachycephalic dog really) but there is no scientific evidence to suggest that all breeds are deemed healthier than crosses.

100% agree on your cocker point - my cocker is Extremely nose driven and stubborn where recall is concerned.. in fact even at 11 we don’t trust him with recall. If he saw a bird (ohhh the dreaded birds cause him all sorts of stress), cat, rabbit etc. he is gone like a rocket there is NO stopping him.
As a result we cannot let him off lead with the exception to one of our mountain walks – pity really as we do some fabulous walks.

With regard to training he wasn’t stubborn at all - food driven so learned quickly where a treat was on offer.

Cockers are fabulous dogs and while I’d def. get another one … a mature adult dog for sure. As a puppy he was a devil – destroyed everything from kitchen presses, washings machines, furniture, pipes etc.… even now at 11 he does a fair amount of walking / hiking and its still never enough. We do a 20km Wicklow mountain walk most weekend and that about tires him out.

And yip he’s pretty neurotic too… puts himself to bed at the same time each night and get a little vocal if you don’t go to bed at the same time :pac: as he wants the downstairs to himself….

Still cries sometimes (YES AT 11) at the kitchen door to come up to our room sometimes… if we give him a treat when we’re leaving the house.. he saves it won’t eat it until we return .. he won’t eat his breakfast until you’re eating yours… so pretty quirky.. but we love him to bits all the same I call him HM as in high maintenance.


Just my opinion a cocker as a puppy, while amazing dogs and very cute (although I am biased) are A LOT of hard work, not something I will have the patience for in the future – an adult dog (even an old dog) is the only way forward for me

Millem

Cocker I agree with you! Older dog any day. i am 31 and my puppy days are over
I am a big dog person so can always see myself with 2 big dogs!!

borderlinemeath

cocker5 wrote: »

100% agree on your cocker point - my cocker is Extremely nose driven and stubborn where recall is concerned.. in fact even at 11 we don’t trust him with recall. If he saw a bird (ohhh the dreaded birds cause him all sorts of stress), cat, rabbit etc. he is gone like a rocket there is NO stopping him.
As a result we cannot let him off lead with the exception to one of our mountain walks – pity really as we do some fabulous walks.

With regard to training he wasn’t stubborn at all - food driven so learned quickly where a treat was on offer.

Cockers are fabulous dogs and while I’d def. get another one … a mature adult dog for sure. As a puppy he was a devil – destroyed everything from kitchen presses, washings machines, furniture, pipes etc.… even now at 11 he does a fair amount of walking / hiking and its still never enough. We do a 20km Wicklow mountain walk most weekend and that about tires him out.

And yip he’s pretty neurotic too… puts himself to bed at the same time each night and get a little vocal if you don’t go to bed at the same time :pac: as he wants the downstairs to himself….

Still cries sometimes (YES AT 11) at the kitchen door to come up to our room sometimes… if we give him a treat when we’re leaving the house.. he saves it won’t eat it until we return .. he won’t eat his breakfast until you’re eating yours… so pretty quirky.. but we love him to bits all the same I call him HM as in high maintenance.


Just my opinion a cocker as a puppy, while amazing dogs and very cute (although I am biased) are A LOT of hard work, not something I will have the patience for in the future – an adult dog (even an old dog) is the only way forward for me

And there's always cockers popping up in rescues due to the fact that people get them and can't cope with them. Lots of people get them because they're the "right size" without looking at the exercise, socialisation or training commitments - or even the grooming commitments (does anything grow faster than cocker fur:D). I know lots of nervy cockers who aren't great with other dogs and nervous of new people and situations. It's a rarity when I meet a confident cocker these days, partly because of bad breeders churning out nervy dogs, but the owners don't socialise them either:(

cocker5

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And there's always cockers popping up in rescues due to the fact that people get them and can't cope with them. Lots of people get them because they're the "right size" without looking at the exercise, socialisation or training commitments - or even the grooming commitments (does anything grow faster than cocker fur:D). I know lots of nervy cockers who aren't great with other dogs and nervous of new people and situations. It's a rarity when I meet a confident cocker these days, partly because of bad breeders churning out nervy dogs, but the owners don't socialise them either:(

Just on the fur thing OMG - we get cody clipped every 8 weeks, he was only done the weekend before June bank holiday and he is already looking like a homeless dog! :eek:

Thank god Cody is amazing with other dogs / kids and people... we are blessed in all 11 years ive had him he has never shown fear, growled, shown his teeth, snapped or cowered etc.. maybe case he has it too good

ah no we did invest alot of time in socialising him etc and thank god it paid off.

My sister on the other hand has a 2 years old golden cocker with every little patience with her kids - lovely dog but not half as nice as my black cocker temperment wise.

SarahMollie

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Just to say again, our last (and much missed) dog was a Cocker X (bit of collie was out best guess, but the cocker features were most prominent), boundless energy, obsessed with smelling things. When I'd call over at the weekend i'd sometimes be worries about him hurting himself because he'd get so excited and would run and fall and bang into things with excitement. So we do know what they're like but we thought he was worth it because we just loved him so much and he loved us back.

We manged his energy by daily trips to the park, beach, mountains where he could go off the lead and run off his energy (benefits of retired owners) and maybe 3 other 20 minute walks just to take the edge off.

Believe it or not, my parents saw this as very positive. My Mam is always busy with various organisations she's involved with, but he really gave my Dad a focus in his retirement. They've really noticed his loss in their day to day routine. I think we've mostly always had dogs who are mad in the head, but they've always been intelligent and honest at the same time

We're not hell bent on a puppy from a breeder, we're just trying to maxzimise our chances of getting a dog this summer.

Ms Doubtfire1

and let me re-iterate: if you go to a breeder, do your due diligence. if you do end up going that way and not sure how to read a pedigree, let me know,I can help.insist on a 5 generation pedigree AT LEAST.If they can't provide that, stay clear..sorry those things just pop into my head as I go along. :-)

Cherry Blossom

OP, before I bought my dog I did quite an extensive examination of the pups pedigree and did some research. I was able to compose some questions for the breeder based on this.

There is a poster here called Knine who has extensive knowledge of breeding and pedigrees. If I had needed any help I would have asked her opinion as an unbiased third party.

StupidLikeAFox

Have you tried the fourpaws app OP? Might be a handy way of browsing through different dogs that fit your requirements?

www.fourpaws.ie

John_Rambo

Springwell wrote: »

Seriously? I work gundogs both rough shooting and on large commercial shoots and I know very few working dogs who are not pure bred/KC reg and those are usually Springer/Cocker crosses.

Oh, fair enough, I stand corrected. I was under the impression they weren't... I think I was getting mixed up between them not touching a show dog.

Knine

John_Rambo wrote: »

Oh, fair enough, I stand corrected. I was under the impression they weren't... I think I was getting mixed up between them not touching a show dog.

Many show dogs actually work too. My own top winning hunt/point/retrieve show dog naturally works. My terriers who also are show dogs have no problem working. I am a group 7 hunt/point/retrieve judge so see a lot of them. There are many Champion Gundogs with working Certs!

Springwell

Lots of HPR breeds show and work. Not many spaniels do though - and no I wouldn't touch a show bred one for work. There are a few spaniels doing both - one of mine has been to the game keepers ring at Crufts

SarahMollie

Hi All,

Just a quick update. So obviously I started this thread as my parents and I were struggling with the "adopt a dog" process, and thought buying might be easier. From what a lot of people have said, buying comes wtih its own risks, delays and other challenges. This thread has given me a bit of a boost to go looking at the charities again.

So, the other day, I was PM'd by one of the posters here with a link to a lovely dog. I send this to my parents who looked it over and agreed that he seemed like a great fit for us. They followed up yesterday and it turnes out that the owners are giving him up very reluctantly based on a medical condition in the family, but don't want him spending time in the shelter itself, so they're trying for a "home to home adoption". We've arranged that they'll bring him to the center to meet us on Sunday and if that goes well, we'll arrange for him to come to our house for a cat test.

So all being well, we may have found a dog I'm trying not to get my heart set on him just yet as so far we've only got one photo to go on but on paper he seems great

cocker5

Brilliant news !! I hope it all works out well !! XX

SarahMollie

Hi everyone,

So just a quick update, we went to visit the dog that I mentioned in my previous post on Sunday. As the dog is being adpoted from its current home as the current owner doesnt want him to have to stay at the rehoming center.

We arrived at the allotted time and were waiting accross the car park as he was taken from his current owners car. He seemed to have some difficulties getting out and needed to be lifted from what I can make out. When we got a closer look at him, he was significantly over weight.

My mam is an eternal optimist and I could tell by her that as she's been focusing on him for the past few days, shes just desperate for it to work. I could also tell that my dad was not that keen, and talking to him on the phone this morning, he worries that we'd struggle to get the excess weight off the dog.

His other concern is that the dog has never really been off the lead (current owner admitted as much) but we don't know if this is because he has absolutely no sense or if they just didnt put the time into training him to do this safely. Any dog in our household has always been taken to the dog park to run around and get proper exercise. Should the weight just fall off if we do this combined with a special diet?

So, the prospect is that my mam is fairly gung ho to go ahead with this dog as he's lived with a cat in the past. Father quite reluctant. I think he'd be a lovely dog if we can get the weight off but I've no experience in having to reduce a dogs weight by this much. I dont know exactly how heavy he is but he's definitely sausage shaped and feels very jiggley around his center, and I think his neck is a bit thick with fat too.

He's a 3year old spaniel cross - do we have a good chance of getting him back to a healthy weight?

Ms Doubtfire1

You'd be absolutely fine. He's 3 years old, which means still quite young. Get him trained off lead and the weight will fly off once he starts doing what spaniels do...go mental..;-)

Sittingpretty

Absolutely! Speak with your vet and they'll be happy to provide a diet plan to reduce the dogs weight

cocker5

SarahMollie wrote: »

Hi everyone,

So just a quick update, we went to visit the dog that I mentioned in my previous post on Sunday. As the dog is being adpoted from its current home as the current owner doesnt want him to have to stay at the rehoming center.

We arrived at the allotted time and were waiting accross the car park as he was taken from his current owners car. He seemed to have some difficulties getting out and needed to be lifted from what I can make out. When we got a closer look at him, he was significantly over weight.

My mam is an eternal optimist and I could tell by her that as she's been focusing on him for the past few days, shes just desperate for it to work. I could also tell that my dad was not that keen, and talking to him on the phone this morning, he worries that we'd struggle to get the excess weight off the dog.

His other concern is that the dog has never really been off the lead (current owner admitted as much) but we don't know if this is because he has absolutely no sense or if they just didnt put the time into training him to do this safely. Any dog in our household has always been taken to the dog park to run around and get proper exercise. Should the weight just fall off if we do this combined with a special diet?

So, the prospect is that my mam is fairly gung ho to go ahead with this dog as he's lived with a cat in the past. Father quite reluctant. I think he'd be a lovely dog if we can get the weight off but I've no experience in having to reduce a dogs weight by this much. I dont know exactly how heavy he is but he's definitely sausage shaped and feels very jiggley around his center, and I think his neck is a bit thick with fat too.

He's a 3year old spaniel cross - do we have a good chance of getting him back to a healthy weight?

Fair play op for your mum giving him the best chance she can.

On the off lead thing – as I already mentioned in my previous post my cocker is VERY nose driven so we cannot take him off lead, with the exception of one of our mountain walks. We tried EVERYTHING all sorts of training and he just couldn’t / wouldn’t do it….
He is pretty healthy so don’t worry too much that him being off lead will stop him for losing weight it won’t.
Get a good retraceable lead – only use while in the park - I only use it up the mountains never on a main road just in case it fails. My guys loves to zip around and sniff etc.…

http://www.rosewoodpet.com/dog/walk-time/flexi/flexi-giant-tape-med-8m-neon

Firstly what food was he currently being fed?

Cut out ALL treats with the exception of raw carrots (great for cleaning their teeth), or sugar snap peas etc. NO normal dogs treats – no dentastix or such stuff.
He may turn his nose up at the veg but over time he will learn to love it trust me.

Cut down on his portions, feed him twice a day, small portion in the morning and again in the evening.

NO SCRAPS etc.… honestly in a few weeks you’ll see a big improvement in his weight.

Have you updated his microchip details? If he doesn’t have one yet it’s now required by law id get it done ASAP.
Plus put a ID tag on him with your parents numbers – he doesn’t know his new home can easily get lost if he were to get out.

Not being critical but says a lot about so previous owners if the met strangers in a car park and handed over their dog no offence intended but who does that ???? the poor chap could have ended up anywhere.

Im glad he’s found a home with your parents… give your dad time. Its takes time to bond with any dog it’s not straight love at first sight to be honest.

Is he neutered? Have you looked up pet insurance?

Have you checked he has all up to date vaccinations?