Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Pro. F

Adamcp898 wrote: »

No you asked for games where he was made the focal point.

Because you tried to make out that LVG making Fellaini "a focal point," as you put it, helped him look like a better possession CM than he actually is. When I asked you what games you were talking about that Fellaini was made a focal point, you pointed to the ones where he was asked to get forward and act as a target man.

So your evidence that LVG helped Fell to look a better possession CM than he really is turned out to be the fact that in some games he pushed him forward and asked him play as a target-man. Which is ridiculous since that would hamper anybody from showing CM possession skills.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

My original point still stands irrespective of position; you can't make one argument saying that he played well and would've been better if it weren't for mismanagement and then ignore the inverse. The very fact that the coach has changed and the systems, roles etc. along with it make that point moot anyway tbh.

So we can't point out positives from any players' performances last season as a reason to believe they can be good this season?

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Well if you want to talk about preconceived ideas, then this has been the most odd thing about this whole exchange. From a single sentence you managed to build up this whole view of what I think Maruoane Fellaini to be, except that I didn't actually say any of it

A single sentence my hole. You have made several posts on Fellaini and his abilities today and from the first you have expressed the opinion that he can't play in CM in a team who want to play attractive football (presumably meaning a team who use possession well) and that his strengths lie in being a target man.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

And besides you're talking as if a CM who is able to take a first touch, turn and give it to someone who wasn't in his original field of vision when they received the ball as if they're a rarity and we don't have any?

You forgot the important factor of doing those things while under pressure. It is far from a ubiquitous skill, even among top flight CMs. Certainly Schneiderlin and Carrick don't have it. Herrera and Fellaini do.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

You made the distinction when you said that I was wrong to be conflating CM with the CM's in a 4-2-3-1.

"I suspect that you are conflating CM with the two sitting CMs in a 4231, hence you not being able to remember all the times Fell played in CM (edit) that I'm talking about. He got most of his CM games as one of two box-to-box CMs in front of a DM."

I said this when you tried to deny that Fell had played CM in any significant number of games. I was not saying that the roles are distinct, but rather I was checking if you thought they were.

Since then you have gone on to argue as if you think that the CMs in a 4231 and a 433 are so different as to be incomparable. It is a ridiculous stance to take, but then you haven't actually stuck by it, but rather tried to discuss all sorts of other things.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

But since then you have talked as if no such distinction was needed, I just wanted to know where this was headed.

I think this discussion has been severely side tracked is where it's headed.

So I'm just going to ask you three simple questions:

Do you agree that Fellaini played in central midfield (not as a target man further forward) during the last two seasons in a reasonable number of games, so that we can judge his performances there?

Do you agree that the box-to-box CMs in a 433 are extremely compareable to the box-to-box CM in a 4231?

What do you think Fellaini's strengths and weaknesses are?

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd actually equate first touch as a fitness / form thing as opposed to an expected ability or an automatic assumption.

For instance I would consider Wayne Rooney having a fantastic first touch but when he ain't on form it's pure dirty. It's nothing to do with his ability. It's purely related to form. And that has been pure and simple to see as of late.

To note I'm just adding my 2 cents on the subject nothing more

Also on the subject of Rooney I would consider his poor form relating to his forced position by management. I just don't know what Jose intends on doing with him. So I really don't know what to expect from him next season.

Form affects all skills as far as I can tell.

Assuming that they are both in good form, Luka Modric has a better first touch than Chris Smalling. That statement should not illicit any disagreement.

jimmytwotimes 2013

They always said we never replaced Roy Keane

https://twitter.com/paulpogba/status/760600985932800003

beno619

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I feel sorry for him. It actually sounds like he really loves the club and wants to stay. I still feel like he definitely can offer something.....from the bench though

A quality sub IMO

Also experienced to boot, which is influential for any team. Knowledge is key.

He's not on Ibras level (as in a tank and still fit as a fiddle but still)

I've seen nothing that suggests he loves the club.

LVG turfed out many a player that showed genuine passion, generic twitter posts by his pr team mean nothing.

It's a shame things haven't worked out but it's the correct call.

brinty

Agh lads
5 pages since last night and I got excited
Gifs were being dusted off, the plane was fuelled up and......
Still the same oul b****x of something will happen yesterday tomorrow today..
And Bangkok and ProF are debating Fellaini's touch...

Preseason can be so upsetting..

Anyone headed over for Rooney's testimonial tonight? Should be an interesting game. Does Jose go all out for 60 minutes and then ease off for the novelty part ahead of the shield match on Sunday?

Think Bangkok called it right saying we might see more signings if janujaz,Fellaini,keane and schweni are not in Jose's plans.

Once this pogba deal is done the outgoings can and should start.

Am I right in saying only Valdes and Varela on loan have left??

jayo26

Nick Powell also and a few other younger lads Mostley. There was never gonna be a lot of departures anyway because squad was so small to start with.

bangkok

brinty wrote: »

Agh lads
5 pages since last night and I got excited
Gifs were being dusted off, the plane was fuelled up and......
Still the same oul b****x of something will happen yesterday tomorrow today..
And Bangkok and ProF are debating Fellaini's touch...

Preseason can be so upsetting..

Anyone headed over for Rooney's testimonial tonight? Should be an interesting game. Does Jose go all out for 60 minutes and then ease off for the novelty part ahead of the shield match on Sunday?

Think Bangkok called it right saying we might see more signings if janujaz,Fellaini,keane and schweni are not in Jose's plans.

Once this pogba deal is done the outgoings can and should start.

Am I right in saying only Valdes and Varela on loan have left??

5 have left so far, 2 above, Powell and 2 youths/reserves

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Nick Powell also and a few other younger lads Mostley. There was never gonna be a lot of departures anyway because squad was so small to start with.

I don't think squad is small, just a lot of injuries last season made it look small. We have at least 2 players for every position on the field, some positions even have 3 options. That's before you even consider our world record transfer for pogba

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

I don't think squad is small, just a lot of injuries last season made it look small. We have at least 2 players for every position on the field, some positions even have 3 options. That's before you even consider our world record transfer for pogba

I don't think it's as small now but infairness it was. When we started last season first team expired players in the squad was under 20 players it's just that now we have players like Rashford and cbj that have got experience we have brought in 3 first ten starters.

jaykay74

Hococop wrote: »

I get the feeling this schweinsteiger issue is blown way out of proportion, probably has to play with the youth to regain fitness, a non story but thats too boring for the media so they try to make a big deal out of it,

Thats my opinion anyway

That could be argued except for his brothers cryptic tweet on the day the story broke. Something up alright I think.

https://twitter.com/tobits7/status/760172697187917824

Anything to be said for a cheap deal for Ashley Williams as a stopgap CB if Bailly is too raw and Blind/Rojo too unsuitable and Jones too breakable...

There was someone looking for Man Utd related app news/transfers a few days back. I've recently started using the Manchester Evening News Android app. You can filter on stories of interest so you don't see local train delays etc . Plenty of Utd stuff there.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manchester.evening.news

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

I don't think it's as small now but infairness it was. When we started last season first team expired players in the squad was under 20 players it's just that now we have players like Rashford and cbj that have got experience we have brought in 3 first ten starters.

We were hit with a serious amount of injuries last. Season, but van gaal also made a balls of our squad. To name a few welbeck, Hernandez, fletcher, Nani and Evans should never have been sold

jaykay74

jayo26 wrote: »

Nick Powell also and a few other younger lads Mostley.

Thats a shame, Mostley was good anytime I saw him. Well mostly.

Mars Bar

The testimonial takes on more importance in terms of fitness seeing as the players missed out on a game against city. I'm glad we will see a fairly competitive match!

Will rooney play a half in red and a half in blue?

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

We were hit with a serious amount of injuries last. Season, but van gaal also made a balls of our squad. To name a few welbeck, Hernandez, fletcher, Nani and Evans should never have been sold

Well that is what I said he basically lvg did make a balls of it he left it short of players and jones was counted on for staying fit.

We went into last season with only rooney as a striker and signed martial. Only for Rashford we were fuked.

This season we seem to be coveted already.

DARK-KNIGHT

Mars Bar wrote: »

The testimonial takes on more importance in terms of fitness seeing as the players missed out on a game against city. I'm glad we will see a fairly competitive match!

Will rooney play a half in red and a half in blue?

Wonder would Everton take Wazza back? Please please please...

magnumbud

http://metro.co.uk/video/1316035?ito=vjs-link

:eek::(

pogba asked if hes staying at juve and said yes

ElChe32

magnumbud wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/video/1316035?ito=vjs-link

:eek::(

pogba asked if hes staying at juve and said yes

Oh man the look on those fans faces will be priceless when Pogba parachutes into OT tonight and sets up a Rooney bicycle kick.

Lord TSC

magnumbud wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/video/1316035?ito=vjs-link

:eek::(

pogba asked if hes staying at juve and said yes

Feel it was more of a "I will say yes to shut them up so they won't keep pestering me" yes...

magnumbud

Lord TSC wrote: »

Feel it was more of a "I will say yes to shut them up so they won't keep pestering me" yes...

probably

jimmytwotimes 2013

Dunno if anyone posted this yesterday but the softly spoken JIM WHITE!!! posted on twitter that Pogba on returns from holiday on 7/8 August.

How right or wrong he is, only time will tell. Store up the gifs til then maybe!

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/760241230961864704

Adamocovic

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Dunno if anyone posted this yesterday but the softly spoken JIM WHITE!!! posted on twitter that Pogba on returns from holiday on 7/8 August.

How right or wrong he is, only time will tell. Store up the gifs til then maybe!

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/760241230961864704

On the deal I cannot say but yeah Pogba was scheduled to be on holidays until 7/8 of August, he's right there.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Adamocovic wrote: »

On the deal I cannot say but yeah Pogba was scheduled to be on holidays until 7/8 of August, he's right there.

United will hardly announce the deal officially unless Pogba was in Manchester, medical done and posing with the shirt though?

Which probably might not happen until he's finished his holiday? Just a theory.

Either way there's still a few NBA shirts Pogba hasn't been seen in on Instagram yet so could be a while more

Adamocovic

Pogba seems to like holidays, maybe the comments he made back in January were a cryptic hint. :pac:

https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/683926358683074562

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Dunno if anyone posted this yesterday but the softly spoken JIM WHITE!!! posted on twitter that Pogba on returns from holiday on 7/8 August.

How right or wrong he is, only time will tell. Store up the gifs til then maybe!

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/760241230961864704

On the deal I cannot say but yeah Pogba was scheduled to be on holidays until 7/8 of August, he's right there.

He's due back in Juve training Base on the 7th of August so he will be either in Manchester or Turin before that

RobertKK

United probably don't want to announce a huge transfer on the day of Rooney's big day.

Lord TSC

RobertKK wrote: »

United probably don't want to announce a huge transfer on the day of Rooney's big day.

Juventus will announce it first, I reckon. They will announce when the offer has been officially accepted, United won't confirm till after the medical is done, which is probably a few days after that.

yermandan

Morning lads and lassies,

It's Fantasy league time.

If you wanna plod along without any ambition then join the free league here ​

-> 49231-17540

Alternatively if you want to rise to the challenge in the paid league it is 10 euros
entry so PM me for my paypal deets and I'll get the code over to ya.

VIVA LE POGBA

jayo26

Dan is that the official premier league one ye use?

ericzeking

Handy sized squads provide room for development of players just like Rashford, Fosu Mensah, Borthwick Jackson, Varela, Mcnair, Blackett even Martial and you can even stretch it to the likes of Lingard who've been knocking around for a while.

LVG did us a great service there.

Hopefully Jose continues in this vein.

yermandan

jayo26 wrote: »

Dan is that the official premier league one ye use?

Yeah man

https://fantasy.premierleague.com/a/home

magnumbud

ericzeking wrote: »

Handy sized squads provide room for development of players just like Rashford, Fosu Mensah, Borthwick Jackson, Varela, Mcnair, Blackett even Martial and you can even stretch it to the likes of Lingard who've been knocking around for a while.

LVG did us a great service there.

Hopefully Jose continues in this vein.

gone out on loan

yermandan

Cannot wait for the new season. Especially Rashford linking up with Ibra

ericzeking

magnumbud wrote: »

ericzeking wrote: »

Handy sized squads provide room for development of players just like Rashford, Fosu Mensah, Borthwick Jackson, Varela, Mcnair, Blackett even Martial and you can even stretch it to the likes of Lingard who've been knocking around for a while.

LVG did us a great service there.

Hopefully Jose continues in this vein.

gone out on loan

I know ya, but he got chances last season to the point where he has now got a good loan and will hopefully comeback at regular first team standard.

magnumbud

yermandan wrote: »

Cannot wait for the new season. Especially Rashford linking up with Ibra

i dont really expect them to play too much together rashford backup to him or maybe come on to play with him if we need a goal towards the end of a game

Bradz213

magnumbud wrote: »

i dont really expect them to play too much together rashford backup to him or maybe come on to play with him if we need a goal towards the end of a game

Or when Mourinho realises Rooney is S*** and doesn't play him on reputation we might get a front 4 of;

---

Zlatan
Martial--Mkhitaryan--Rashford

Flint Fredstone

magnumbud wrote: »

i dont really expect them to play too much together rashford backup to him or maybe come on to play with him if we need a goal towards the end of a game

I think Rashford will play his way into a starting position very quickly.

fatherted1969

Not sure I've been as excited about a youth player coming through in the last 20 years as I am about Rashford. Wherever he receives the ball on the field he looks a threat, back to goal, hold up, cutting in, setting up chances and scoring all look so good at moment. Would hope he gets plenty of games in a row. Wouldn't want his development to stagnate this season.

Was hoping Pogba would have signed by the Charity Shield on Sunday as I'm heading over but it's looking very doubtful now. By pure luck I was over for Rooneys debut against Fenerbache. Got class tickets 1st row behind the away dugout. Young lad was over the moon

magnumbud

Bradz213 wrote: »

Or when Mourinho realises Rooney is S*** and doesn't play him on reputation we might get a front 4 of;

---

Zlatan
Martial--Mkhitaryan--Rashford

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I think Rashford will play his way into a starting position very quickly.

to both yeah i think rashford should be in there but i also think mata has been on fire pre season and should be starting no 10 with mick targaryn and martial either side. zlatan probably starts. but to be fair theres gonna be a lot of games going around.

Flint Fredstone

Match tonight is streaming live on... Facebook :eek:
Weird but probably handy for some of you.

master-t

Zlatan - how many goals do you think he could score this season?

What's realistic? 10+? 15+? 20+?

One can only imagine we will play ALOT of games this season, potentially with a combo of Rooney / Martial / Miki / Rashford / Mata / Depay behind him at different stages of the season - that's a lot of talent supplying the main forward with chances.

My prediction would be 20+ in all competitions - assuming he'll play mainly PL, FA Cup and a handful of EL matches. Don't see him playing too much in League Cup unless we reach latter rounds.

Lukekul

master-t wrote: »

Zlatan - how many goals do you think he could score this season?

What's realistic? 10+? 15+? 20+?

One can only imagine we will play ALOT of games this season, potentially with a combo of Rooney / Martial / Miki / Rashford / Mata / Depay behind him at different stages of the season - that's a lot of talent supplying the main forward with chances.

My prediction would be 20+ in all competitions - assuming he'll play mainly PL, FA Cup and a handful of EL matches. Don't see him playing too much in League Cup unless we reach latter rounds.

Isn't Zlatan renowned for wanting to play every single game?

I'd say 15+ is easy money barring injury

master-t

Lukekul wrote: »

Isn't Zlatan renowned for wanting to play every single game?

I'd say 15+ is easy money barring injury

I'm sure he'll want to play every game, as will every other player, but Jose will surely focus attention on PL and a domestic cup over EL? That makes me think we'd see more of the fringe players getting EL game time over Zlatan. could be wrong there and maybe Jose wants the lot.

But EL on a Thurs and PL on a Sunday is a nightmare and the PL must take priority with the squad selections.

10/1 top goalscorer in the PL for Zlatan?

secman

Are we sorted at right full?
Are we sorted at centre of defence ?
Are we sorted in centre midfield ?

Still think we are a bit short in those areas.

Adamocovic

yermandan wrote: »

Yeah man

https://fantasy.premierleague.com/a/home

The website looks a lot flashier this year :P They went all out after the logo change

master-t

secman wrote: »

Are we sorted at right full?
Are we sorted at centre of defence ?
Are we sorted in centre midfield ?

Still think we are a bit short in those areas.

Right Full - I would have agreed with you a month ago, but, Valencia has been flying in pre season.....he has actually been really good. Darmian there to offer competition and the two fight it out - I think it's not priority.

Center Back - It's a pity Phil Jones' body is made of digestive biscuits as I really think he could do a serious job for us if he could stay injury free. Not sold on Rojo and Bailly is new and young. Blind did a great job last season, but it's not his natural position. That leaves Smalling really as our only senior, fit CB. That's a concern. Can't see another CB coming in though unless one or two of those above move on.

Center Midfield - IF Pogba comes in, we are certainly sorted. Pogba, Carrick, Schneriderlein, Herrera, Fellaini and Schweni - the latter two could potentially leave, which would possibly require an additional CM. But we would still have 4 CMS and Blind even, I think we're covered personally.

IamtheWalrus

I think it's unlikely Rashford will get the opportunity at Utd to fulfill his potential. I can't see him becoming a Utd great. It's such early days and I can't see Jose having much patience if he's not scoring. With football these days, short-term thinking wins. I hope I'm wrong.

TheDoc

master-t wrote: »

Zlatan - how many goals do you think he could score this season?

What's realistic? 10+? 15+? 20+?

One can only imagine we will play ALOT of games this season, potentially with a combo of Rooney / Martial / Miki / Rashford / Mata / Depay behind him at different stages of the season - that's a lot of talent supplying the main forward with chances.

My prediction would be 20+ in all competitions - assuming he'll play mainly PL, FA Cup and a handful of EL matches. Don't see him playing too much in League Cup unless we reach latter rounds.

He has scored 20+ in all comps for the last nine consecutive seasons. I'd expect him to bag 15+ easily, but will probably go with 20+ for all comps, barring horrendous injury.

I'll put him down for 23, for the craic

Pro. F

Bailly is class imo. Good enough to start for a title chasing team. But, I think the rumours are that Jose is going to buy an older CB to be first choice and the rest are going to compete for the other starting spot. It's a bit of a pity I think, because I'd love to see Smalling and Bailly build a partnership, but it makes sense for Jose to want some more experience in there. Also, neither Smalling nor Bailly are particularly good passers, so maybe that's a concern.

RobertKK

On Sky News during the sport section they said Pogba will be in Manchester on Saturday and the deal officially announced on Monday.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Bailly is class imo. Good enough to start for a title chasing team. But, I think the rumours are that Jose is going to buy an older CB to be first choice and the rest are going to compete for the other starting spot. It's a bit of a pity I think, because I'd love to see Smalling and Bailly build a partnership, but it makes sense for Jose to want some more experience in there. Also, neither Smalling or Bailly are particularly good passers, so maybe that's a concern.

Yeah so far so good, hes looked pretty good. Be interesting to see how it goes in the PL in a competitive environment.

I guess that is Jose with his own beliefs and opinions. Cant really fault him considering his track record with defences in general. Thought he maybe though would have been encouraged walking into one of the best defensive units the league (performance wise) and the return of Shaw and additional of Bailly to bolster it.

But as you say I'm gathering the talk is he is having none of Blind at CB and wants another one in the mix.

Kinda wondering what is happening with Rojo, staying or going. Was watching this documentary thing on him at the weekend. Granted on MUTV so clearly biased, it painted a really good picture of this guy, and providing his history and background kind of made me hope he stays and succeeds. Somewhat of a meteoric rise and a feeling that there is another few levels in him to go through.