Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

IamtheWalrus

I hope he signs for Madrid. I'm in a very self-destructive mood today.

Cookie_Dough

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I hope he signs for Madrid. I'm in a very self-destructive mood today.

I hope he does just to see the reaction of this thread

Trigger

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I hope he signs for Madrid. I'm in a very self-destructive mood today.

Sure they are after a much better player apparently... Sissoko

Korat

I don’t see it myself but if Jose considers Fellaini to be a useful asset to the squad then hopefully the general ignorance of his qualities, outside of a tiny minority of Utd fans, continues.

Hococop

Hococop wrote: »

I'm still standing by my statement of he is just put to the reserves for fitness and will be back with the squad in the next week or 2

I dont really understand this its presesason and everyone has different levels of unfitness, even players coming back from injury train with the first team squad dont they? they may play reserve games for match fitness but still train daily first team.

And he played a 90 mins of a semi final in the euros so he couldnt be that bad unless he tore the arse of it after the weddding

Strumms

bangkok wrote: »

its a process, part of the philosophy

quiet you ! :pac:

Korat

Korat wrote: »

I don’t see it myself but if Jose considers Fellaini to be a useful asset to the squad then hopefully the general ignorance of his qualities, outside of a tiny minority of Utd fans, continues.

Why continues with opposition or our own fans? I could be taking this up wrong I only learned the 24hr clock during Rooneys testimonial

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

http://rebrn.com/re/marouane-fellainis-sublime-skill-against-bayern-last-night-608786/

What do you think that proves? Looking forward to the #bangkoklogic

0gac3yjefb5sv7

astradave wrote: »

Still reckon it's going to be announced today.. Ben Hibbs who basically runs the website just followed him on twitter and so did Mandy from MUTV

Not an absolute hope in hell.

Discodog

I wonder if Basti has said or done something to annoy Jose ? His brother's stupid interference would p*ss me off. I am glad that Jose doesn't see any player as beyond dropping down the pecking order.

Mitch Connor

Hococop wrote: »

I'm still standing by my statement of he is just put to the reserves for fitness and will be back with the squad in the next week or 2

Why though? The entire squad is working in fitness, why only him in the reserves?

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

I can understand why you would think that. Carrick is so damn elegant and measured when he's moving around looking for the ball and passing it. And Fellaini often looks clunky. On top of that, Carrick's passing (when taken in isolation) is a lot better.

But, imo, when it comes to receiving the ball under pressure and moving around with it in those tight spots Carrick is poor and Fellaini is good. Carrick actually avoids taking on those situations as much as possible. It's pretty impressive how disciplined he is to not try the really important thing that he is weak at doing.

If the pass played into him is slow, then he'll do more with it, but if it's anyway harder to deal with and he's under pressure then he'll only take the easiest of touches, or he'll pass it first time and not try to keep it at all. This makes it too easy for opposition players to control him when pressing, because where he puts the ball when controlling it is dictated to him, rather than him being able to consistently put the ball in a spot that makes life difficult for the defender. It also means that he can't relieve the pressure on his teammates (which is a very important job for CMs) because, while he can pass to them if they are open, he can't make them open by dragging defenders around and taking them out of the game.

Fellaini, by contrast, can receive a fast pass under pressure and control it where he wants it, where it will make life difficult for the opposition. And added to that Fellaini can run with the ball a bit and get around pressing that way too.

I should say, years have passed since I started criticising Carrick about this. In that time he has steadily gotten more skilful (this pretty much happens with all players if they aren't playing under someone like Pulis), so he's better at it now then he used to be. But he's still not good enough imo.

Don't agree at all that fellaini is good in tight spaces, never mind better than Carrick. It's nothing to do with what he looks like. He is very good with his chest, but his foot control is average, imo.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

What do you think that proves? Looking forward to the #bangkoklogic

absolutely no control on any of his forward touches with the ball.

i just think you are very harsh on carrick.

carrick has played against all the big teams from all over europe and done well, excellent in most of them games, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, Roma, where as fellaini was never in champions league with everton and only had 1 season of champions league with united playing only 5 times, so you have never really seen how fellaini handles high pressure by a top team.

also when players of the caliber of xavi and xavi alonso have good things to say about you as well as rival managers Arsene Wenger who said Carrick was perfectly suited to Barcelona and would easily fit into their style of play, that has to mean something

Strumms

Fellaini is very difficult to dispossess, in tight spaces. He has a good touch and because of his frame and reach he has good ability to shield the ball also and get off a simple pass without loosing it. His effectiveness is underrated I think. He rarely also gets any credit for his excellent work rate. Yes he does still look like a square peg in a round hole sometimes but I think he is a very good squad option to have as he offers something different... a player with a decent touch, good all round game and physicality. He is well over maligned. Worse thing I can say about him really is that he isn't really a typical 'United Player' in the modern sense but always great to have his type of player as an option and he will run all day for you.

I find it difficult to make the comparison with Fellaini and Carrick. Carrick is a CM pure and simple while I think Fellaini is a bit of a midfield / forward utility player. We all know Carrick's strengths, his passing, ability to read a game and his football intelligence but I think what stops him being classed as a great midfielder instead of a pretty good one for me and I said this from the time he joined us was that you have Carrick going up against anybody in midfield for a must win 50 / 50 and 9 times out of 10 you back the other guy. That's been a bug bear of mine with him from the get go. I'm still glad to have him in our squad and I'm sure he will have an important role on the pitch and off it into the next season and maybe beyond. Still don't think the comparison of both players is worthy of much as they are not the same type of footballer at all. Carrick can't do what Fellaini does and it works the other way around too.

master-t

bangkok wrote: »

absolutely no control on any of his forward touches with the ball.

i just think you are very harsh on carrick.

carrick has played against all the big teams from all over europe and done well, excellent in most of them games, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, Roma, where as fellaini was never in champions league with everton and only had 1 season of champions league with united playing only 5 times, so you have never really seen how fellaini handles high pressure by a top team.

I'm surprised we don't all agree that Fellaini is shi1te to be honest...

No way would he get into a starting 11 of United's and nor should he.

He's being linked with Sunderland.....that should speak volumes.

Robson99

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Pro. F wrote: »

I can understand why you would think that. Carrick is so damn elegant and measured when he's moving around looking for the ball and passing it. And Fellaini often looks clunky. On top of that, Carrick's passing (when taken in isolation) is a lot better.

But, imo, when it comes to receiving the ball under pressure and moving around with it in those tight spots Carrick is poor and Fellaini is good. Carrick actually avoids taking on those situations as much as possible. It's pretty impressive how disciplined he is to not try the really important thing that he is weak at doing.

If the pass played into him is slow, then he'll do more with it, but if it's anyway harder to deal with and he's under pressure then he'll only take the easiest of touches, or he'll pass it first time and not try to keep it at all. This makes it too easy for opposition players to control him when pressing, because where he puts the ball when controlling it is dictated to him, rather than him being able to consistently put the ball in a spot that makes life difficult for the defender. It also means that he can't relieve the pressure on his teammates (which is a very important job for CMs) because, while he can pass to them if they are open, he can't make them open by dragging defenders around and taking them out of the game.

Fellaini, by contrast, can receive a fast pass under pressure and control it where he wants it, where it will make life difficult for the opposition. And added to that Fellaini can run with the ball a bit and get around pressing that way too.

I should say, years have passed since I started criticising Carrick about this. In that time he has steadily gotten more skilful (this pretty much happens with all players if they aren't playing under someone like Pulis), so he's better at it now then he used to be. But he's still not good enough imo.

Don't agree at all that fellaini is good in tight spaces, never mind better than Carrick. It's nothing to do with what he looks like. He is very good with his chest, but his foot control is average, imo.

Agree totally on this. Fellani is very average. In fact in a lot of his games he just gives the ball away stupidly. And on top of that I would say he commits the most fouls in each game. Always looks like he will get booked or sent off with his stupid elbowing. I wouldn't be Carrick biggest fan and he does shy away from the ball at times but Fellani is nowhere near his level.
Fellani may be OK as a no 10 in a long ball team but he is nowhere near United standard. I also dont get this different option he gives us?? Hoof it long??? Damage of of the opposition players with an elbow??? We dont need that s**t

adox

master-t wrote: »

I'm surprised we don't all agree that Fellaini is shi1te to be honest...

He would have to be shi1te for all of us to agree he's sh1ite.

bangkok

Strumms wrote: »

Fellaini is very difficult to dispossess, in tight spaces. He has a good touch and because of his frame and reach he has good ability to shield the ball also and get off a simple pass without loosing it. His effectiveness is underrated I think. He rarely also gets any credit for his excellent work rate. Yes he does still look like a square peg in a round hole sometimes but I think he is a very good squad option to have as he offers something different... a player with a decent touch, good all round game and physicality. He is well over maligned. Worse thing I can say about him really is that he isn't really a typical 'United Player' in the modern sense but always great to have his type of player as an option and he will run all day for you.

I find it difficult to make the comparison with Fellaini and Carrick. Carrick is a CM pure and simple while I think Fellaini is a bit of a midfield / forward utility player. We all know Carrick's strengths, his passing, ability to read a game and his football intelligence but I think what stops him being classed as a great midfielder instead of a pretty good one for me and I said this from the time he joined us was that you have Carrick going up against anybody in midfield for a must win 50 / 50 and 9 times out of 10 you back the other guy. That's been a bug bear of mine with him from the get go. I'm still glad to have him in our squad and I'm sure he will have an important role on the pitch and off it into the next season and maybe beyond. Still don't think the comparison of both players is worthy of much as they are not the same type of footballer at all. Carrick can't do what Fellaini does and it works the other way around too.

maybe you took keane leaving too hard and carrick took his number and you were comparing the 2. if you think carrick was losing out on 50/50 tackles 9 times out of 10 you were looking at a different game. his tackling is one of his strengths. you think we would have won all those league titles and champions leagues if that was the case??

Strumms

bangkok wrote: »

maybe you took keane leaving too hard and carrick took his number and you were comparing the 2. if you think carrick was losing out on 50/50 tackles 9 times out of 10 you were looking at a different game. his tackling is one of his strengths. you think we would have won all those league titles and champions leagues if that was the case??

It was more then Carrick that won us League titles. I'm not saying he is a bad tackler but I don't believe he is committed or as adept as others in his position when it comes to those crunching 50/50 tackles. I'm not comparing him with Keane, Scholes or anyone else and I certainly wasn't watching any other games. That I have always felt was a weakness of his from watching HIM for many years. Maybe it was more prominent in his early career but that would be my assessment of him.

adox

Strumms wrote: »

It was more then Carrick that won us League titles. I'm not saying he is a bad tackler but I don't believe he is committed or as adept as others in his position when it comes to those crunching 50/50 tackles. I'm not comparing him with Keane, Scholes or anyone else and I certainly wasn't watching any other games. That I have always felt was a weakness of his from watching HIM for many years. Maybe it was more prominent in his early career but that would be my assessment of him.

While I agree re crunching tackles(he really isn't very good at all at it) Carrick has a fantastic knack of knocking the ball off people in a non physical challenge. Just getting his foot to the ball and knocking it away from the attacker. He was a master of that. Very understated but hugely affective.

While I also agree that one of his big weaknesses was receiving the ball under any sort of pressure, his brain and feet never seemed quick enough to deal with it, he improved that aspect of his game a lot in his later years

I know I'm in the minority here but I find it worrying that we are relying on him still as an integral part of our midfield. I think it says a lot about our midfield at the moment. It looks good numbers wise and the names read pretty good on paper but I'm still not convinced that we have the required quality there.
Carrick still playing? Schweinsteiger? Blind? Schneiderlin?Herrera?Fellaini?

Do I see a top class partnership or threesome among those names? Not for me u fortunately.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

While I agree re crunching tackles(he really isn't very good at all at it) Carrick has a fantastic knack of knocking the ball off people in a non physical challenge. Just getting his foot to the ball and knocking it away from the attacker. He was a master of that. Very understated but hugely affective.

While I also agree that one of his big weaknesses was receiving the ball under any sort of pressure, his brain and feet never seemed quick enough to deal with it, he improved that aspect of his game a lot in his later years

I know I'm in the minority here but I find it worrying that we are relying on him still as an integral part of our midfield. I think it says a lot about our midfield at the moment. It looks good numbers wise and the names read pretty good on paper but I'm still not convinced that we have the required quality there.
Carrick still playing? Schweinsteiger? Blind? Schneiderlin?Herrera?Fellaini?

Do I see a top class partnership or threesome among those names? Not for me u fortunately.

this, look at all the players we have and the players we signed last summer Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger and yet Carrick is still the most important one. I think that alone speaks volumes about the quality of Michael Carrick

DM_7

All round, Carrick is/was a better midfield player than Fellaini.

Carrick's struggles came after United started regressing and when he was playing in sides that were not set up as well in midfield or in attack.

2009 to 2013 he was partnered by players like Anderson, Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher, Cleverley. All had more significant limitations (Age, defending, fitness etc) than Carrick.

He also lost a lot of the attacking threat ahead of him, Ronaldo and Tevez leaving, effectively replaced by the slower Berbatov and straight line running Valencia made United much easier to pressure in possession.

Strumms

adox wrote: »

I know I'm in the minority here but I find it worrying that we are relying on him still as an integral part of our midfield. I think it says a lot about our midfield at the moment. It looks good numbers wise and the names read pretty good on paper but I'm still not convinced that we have the required quality there.
Carrick still playing? Schweinsteiger? Blind? Schneiderlin?Herrera?Fellaini?

Do I see a top class partnership or threesome among those names? Not for me u fortunately.

How much are we going to really rely on him ? How integral will he be ? I really don't know. I agree with you also that our midfield is probably our greatest unknown going into the season. Will Jose rely on Carrick as an experienced bedrock ? with perhaps Herrera and *Pogba on either side of him ? That might be the best option. Morgan I can't work out really he has something to prove I feel.

Korat

I think both Carrick and Fellaini can look good when deployed tactically against certain teams but neither have the kind of universal effectiveness that a starter for Utd should have. The standards are ridiculously high for a midfielder at Utd and that's why the club is willing to pay through the nose for Pogba.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

this, look at all the players we have and the players we signed last summer Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger and yet Carrick is still the most important one. I think that alone speaks volumes about the quality of Michael Carrick

Or, as I see it, it speaks volumes about the other options we have.

I'm not having a go at Carrick btw. I'm a fan after being totally unconvinced about him in his early years at Utd. It's just, he just looks past it to me.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Or, as I see it, it speaks volumes about the other options we have.

I'm not having a go at Carrick btw. I'm a fan after being totally unconvinced about him in his early years at Utd. It's just, he just looks past it to me.

Ah yea he is nearly 35, his best years are behind him no doubt, still will be an important player for us this season. Van gaal was a massive fan. Jose is a huge fan

bucketybuck

master-t wrote: »

He's being linked with Sunderland.....that should speak volumes.

Nobody at all is linked with Rooney, does that mean Felliani is better than Rooney?

NoviGlitzko

I wouldn't be so quick to knock our midfield. I think the heart of the problem is opposition teams know how to get a result against us now by putting 11 people behind the ball and hoping they score from a counter attack when we're scattered, and this happened quite a lot under LVG who lead a high line stupidly enough.

Getting Pogba who offers something different (and under different tactics) in that two man midfield could well be crucial over the course of the season.

Flint Fredstone

master-t wrote: »

He's being linked with Sunderland.....that should speak volumes.

If in some bizarre situation Moyes got the Bayern job he would probably be linked with them too. He won't end up at Sunderland, it's an easy column for a lazy journo.

Lucas Hood

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

If in some bizarre situation Moyes got the Bayern job he would probably be linked with them too. He won't end up at Sunderland, it's an easy column for a lazy journo.

But he's admitted he's interested in fellaini?

The_Kew_Tour

Ben Hibbs is now following Pogba.

So it's in the bag, I think.

Flint Fredstone

Lucas Hood wrote: »

But he's admitted he's interested in fellaini?

Didn't hear that. Was he asked would he be interested in Fellaini by any chance?
I'd wager the link came up before he mentioned it himself...

LiamoSail

Is this business with Schweinsteiger just Mourinho being a dick, or is there a valid reason for it?

Lord TSC

LiamoSail wrote: »

Is this business with Schweinsteiger just Mourinho being a dick, or is there a valid reason for it?

Reports are that Jose told Schwei that he wasn't a part of first team plans and should look for a move. Schwei refused and said he had no intentions of leaving. So Jose has followed through with the "not part of first team plans" part and moved him away from the first team until he moves.

brinty

Christ when Fellaini and Carrick are gone this place will be a lot quieyer....
No more round the clock debates

Anyways once we get pogba,there I said it and now Madrid will swoop, anyone else think we'll have a CB incoming?

Jose said if players leave hell seek replacements, so I don't think we're done yet??

If Fellaini is so sh1te and only fit for the Sunderland scrapheap, what does that say about the rest of our squad? Most of whom he has been playing better than for the last 18 months?

Headshot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports are that Jose told Schwei that he wasn't a part of first team plans and should look for a move. Schwei refused and said he had no intentions of leaving. So Jose has followed through with the "not part of first team plans" part and moved him away from the first team until he moves.

Perfectly acceptable

Schwei likes his paycheck I reckon

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

Christ when Fellaini and Carrick are gone this place will be a lot quieyer....
No more round the clock debates

Anyways once we get pogba,there I said it and now Madrid will swoop, anyone else think we'll have a CB incoming?

Jose said if players leave hell seek replacements, so I don't think we're done yet??

•Can't believe we sold wellbeck he was class
•NANI was fantastic for us
•Rooney is sh1t
•should never of sold fellaini
•carrick was under appreciated

adox

Debate is good and healthy for the thread and to be expected off season.

Certainly a lot more interesting to read than repeated ad nausium choo choo etc.

magnumbud

jayo26 wrote: »

•Can't believe we sold wellbeck he was class
•NANI was fantastic for us
•Rooney is sh1t
•should never of sold fellaini
•carrick was under appreciated

Anderson fat yes or no?

Trigger

astradave wrote: »

Still reckon it's going to be announced today.tomorrow. Ben Hibbs who basically runs the website just followed him on twitter and so did Mandy from MUTV

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports are that Jose told Schwei that he wasn't a part of first team plans and should look for a move. Schwei refused and said he had no intentions of leaving. So Jose has followed through with the "not part of first team plans" part and moved him away from the first team until he moves.

The difference in reactions to when LVG did it to Valdes and this has been amusing so far

bangkok

brinty wrote: »

Christ when Fellaini and Carrick are gone this place will be a lot quieyer....
No more round the clock debates

Anyways once we get pogba,there I said it and now Madrid will swoop, anyone else think we'll have a CB incoming?

Jose said if players leave hell seek replacements, so I don't think we're done yet??

When Fellaini and carrick are gone we will be debating about when will Rooney be sold, why depay is so crap, who will we sign to replace ibrahimovic and psg coming in with a world record bid for martial and it goes on and on and on and on.......

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

The difference in reactions to when LVG did it to Valdes and this has been amusing so far

Tbh i had no problem with what LVG did at the time but in fairness they are 2 totally different circumstances.

LVG brought VV to the club then fell out with him very publicly and banished him to the reserves.

Jose is coming into a new team and there is always going to be players that a manager doesn't fancy. Should Bastian get special treatment just because he is a big name in football? IMO he seems to have took it hard and is getting his friends in Germany to do the talking for him.

Minderbinder

Schweinsteiger has obviously been talking to a lot of friends who have come out to support him. I'd say he just wants to cause as much trouble as he can before he moves on.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

When Fellaini and carrick are gone we will be debating about when will Rooney be sold, why depay is so crap, who will we sign to replace ibrahimovic and psg coming in with a world record bid for martial and it goes on and on and on and on.......

Sorry to tell you this but the Big Fella will probably outlast the majority of them :pac:

Cookie_Dough

jayo26 wrote: »

•Can't believe we sold wellbeck he was class
•NANI was fantastic for us
•Rooney is sh1t
•should never of sold fellaini
•carrick was under appreciated

Don't forget to add the latest

- Jose hates Mata, never rated him, is selling him (& probably kicked his puppy)


Not long til football is back properly

jackwigan

Minderbinder wrote: »

Schweinsteiger has obviously been talking to a lot of friends who have come out to support him. I'd say he just wants to cause as much trouble as he can before he moves on.

An exaggeration to say the least

Flint Fredstone

Seeing a lot of people posting their best 11 on Twitter recently. Rooney doesn't feature in many of them at all.
I hope Jose has the balls to drop him if it's not working out because at the moment I feel we have a better option in each of the positions that he may play.
I fully expect Rashford to make it too hard to be overlooked within the first couple of months.

Mitch Connor

StringerBell wrote: »

The difference in reactions to when LVG did it to Valdes and this has been amusing so far

My reaction is the same, don't like the actions of management in either case. Probably more fault on management side in this case.