Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Liam McPoyle

gosplan wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think there's one thing you can trust Jose to do and it's already started.

Building a squad of players that he wants at the club and that figure in in plans I presume you mean?

gosplan

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Building a squad of players that he wants at the club and that figure in in plans I presume you mean?

Well I should have said two things actually.

Winning and making enemies.

I think as long as he doesn't make enemies with anyone with clout, he'll be fine.

yermandan

**Gentle daily reminder**


Morning lads and lassies,

It's Fantasy league time.

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-> 49231-17540

Alternatively if you want to rise to the challenge in the paid league it is 10 euros
entry so PM me for my paypal deets and I'll get the code over to ya.

magnumbud

gosplan wrote: »

Well I should have said two things actually.

Winning and making enemies.

I think as long as he doesn't make enemies with anyone with clout, he'll be fine.

you forgot about parking the bus

gosplan

magnumbud wrote: »

you forgot about parking the bus

Nah, that one's a myth. He's just great at organising defences and getting them to play well.

I remember in his first season at Chelsea, he used to make this great substitution late on when they were winning. He had some speedster he put on the left wing to stretch it all and keep the other team pinned back. How not to get stuck under pressure in your own half basically.

Don't remember many other managers at that point thinking things through like that and putting on attacking players to help defend a lead. Usually it was just 'stick on a third central defender'

If Wenger had a clear and realistic impression of some of his players, that's what he would have used Walcott for over the last couple of years. A goal or two up wth 20 mins left is when Walcott should come on.

https://twitter.com/DeludedBrendan/status/751366792061345792

Maximus Alexander

Pogba deal to be done in the next 48 hours.

sigmundv

Maximus Alexander wrote:

Pogba deal to be done in the next 48 hours.

And failing that it will be done in the next 48 hours.

Leroy42

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Pogba deal to be done in the next 48 hours.

I wonder do they have someone employed at OT whose job it is to keep resetting the countdown clock back to 48hrs?

deaddonkey15

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Pogba deal to be done in the next 48 hours.

Are negotiations in the final stages?

Mitch Connor

I reckon deal agreed with Juve will be announced today, medical Monday.

ericzeking

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Pogba deal to be done in the next 48 hours.

Are negotiations in the final stages?

United are preparing to enter the final stages........in the next 48 hours

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

In the same time period as above Real Madrid never got past a rd 16 game of the champions league, I would still class them a big club.

The night we beat Roma 7-1, Roma were hotly fancied to knock us out. They had a good team back then but we just came out and blitzed them with carrick playing a huge part in that victory

Indeed, and they were knocked out of the CL by Roma one of those years. Being KO competitions, cups are more open to more variance. In the same period Real's league record was: 2nd; 2nd; 1st; 1st; 2nd; 2nd. And La Liga was a stronger league than Seria A.

A team being hotly fancied to win/draw a match is not a good way of judging how good they are. Popular opinion is wrong at least as often as it is right. They had an okay team, with some class players. But they were nothing special by wider European standards.

Pro. F

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Serious question for Pro. F. Have you done any coaching badges? Do you manage/coach any teams? Do you think you would make a good manager/coach?

Feel free not to answer if you don't want to.

I've done no badges. I'd really like to take up coaching but my work schedule won't fit.

Serious question, why do you ask?

The_Kew_Tour

I reckon by 2nd September we will know where we stand in Pogba situation.

Thank me then.......

magnumbud

gosplan wrote: »

Nah, that one's a myth. He's just great at organising defences and getting them to play well.

I remember in his first season at Chelsea, he used to make this great substitution late on when they were winning. He had some speedster he put on the left wing to stretch it all and keep the other team pinned back. How not to get stuck under pressure in your own half basically.

Don't remember many other managers at that point thinking things through like that and putting on attacking players to help defend a lead. Usually it was just 'stick on a third central defender'

If Wenger had a clear and realistic impression of some of his players, that's what he would have used Walcott for over the last couple of years. A goal or two up wth 20 mins left is when Walcott should come on.

i dont know i used to hate watching chelsea play under him especially in "big" games.

the 2 games that stand out in my mind are the first game of united vs chelsea under moyes when he didnt even play a striker and the last game he had against united when they had 1 attack all game against us at stamford bridge

magnumbud

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I reckon by 2nd September we will know where we stand in Pogba situation.

Thank me then.......

not the first of september?

The_Kew_Tour

magnumbud wrote: »

not the first of september?

Well technically it's 11.59.59, on 31st August, but might just need another 48 hours to be sure, to be sure.

Vertigo100

Pro. F wrote: »

I've done no badges. I'd really like to take up coaching but my work schedule won't fit.

Serious question, why do you ask?

Just curious. You seem quite knowledgeable but have some unusual views as well (the quality of Leon Britton).

You dismiss the opinion of professional managers from time to time saw well so I just wanted to see if you had completed any coaching badges.

Pro. F

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Just curious. You seem quite knowledgeable but have some unusual views as well (the quality of Leon Britton).

You dismiss the opinion of professional managers from time to time saw well so I just wanted to see if you had completed any coaching badges.

I think the majority of people discussing football dismiss the views of professional managers from time to time tbh. Just think of how often we hear/read managers being criticised harshly for their decisions.

But I agree that I've held various unpopular opinions. I think if you don't have at least a few, then it's a good sign that you are not independently forming your opinions.

master-t

Pogba is finished his holidays on Sunday right?

I expect announcement Monday if that's the case, I don't think anything will be announced today so will stop smashing F5 on Twitter News Feed....

Also, on the Basti situation. Some people seem to think it's just the way football is, others think he's been harshly treated. Some think it warrants a prison sentence.

Manager sends player to train with U23s, gets 3 years in prison. Makes perfect sense.

I understand it that Basti didn't attend many matches whilst injured, something expected of senior players at the club,. Apparently this pissed off a lot of players. Poor Phil Jones even went to away matches.

keane2097

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Just curious. You seem quite knowledgeable but have some unusual views as well (the quality of Leon Britton).

You dismiss the opinion of professional managers from time to time saw well so I just wanted to see if you had completed any coaching badges.

I really don't think there's any reason at all to prize the opinion of professional managers as anything above average.

When you see the stats on how well correlated player wages and finishing positions are it's pretty clear that the vast majority of the time the manager might as well be a cardboard cut out.

It seems very much to be a revolving cast of the same faces swapping jobs and having no tangible impact. The major challenge managers actually have to overcome is getting a decent job in the first place (which they often do with little or nothing to distinguish them from anyone else in the running) because once you are in you stay in.

Your Airbag

I always chuckle when the Carrick debate comes up again. Usually at those people who don't think he is a good MF player, tt usually displays a complete lack of understanding of football, even the basics.

Carrick has been a very good MF for UTD over the years. He's still probably the best MF'er on our books right now but age is against him.

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

I always chuckle when the Carrick debate comes up again. Usually at those people who don't think he is a good MF player, tt usually displays a complete lack of understanding of football, even the basics.

Carrick has been a very good MF for UTD over the years. He's still probably the best MF'er on our books right now but age is against him.

I guess it's more that it conflicts with you understanding of Football.

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about football, and I am one of those that don't rate him highly at all.His significant mistakes last much longer in the memory than his positives and apart from little patches here and there of good form, I find him to be highly mediocre, and a last remnant example of Fegusons total blindside to fixing his midfield.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

I always chuckle when the Carrick debate comes up again. Usually at those people who don't think he is a good MF player, tt usually displays a complete lack of understanding of football, even the basics.

Carrick has been a very good MF for UTD over the years. He's still probably the best MF'er on our books right now but age is against him.

Who exactly would this be?

Julez

Your Airbag wrote: »

Carrick has been a very good MF for UTD over the years. He's still probably the best MF'er on our books right now but age is against him.

At least for the next 48 hours.

sky88

Your Airbag wrote: »

I always chuckle when the Carrick debate comes up again. Usually at those people who don't think he is a good MF player, tt usually displays a complete lack of understanding of football, even the basics.

Carrick has been a very good MF for UTD over the years. He's still probably the best MF'er on our books right now but age is against him.

Did you watch him play last season he was terrible and tbh if he starts games this year i would be worried.

An great player for united but this was the summer to let him go.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I guess it's more that it conflicts with you understanding of Football.

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about football, and I am one of those that don't rate him highly at all.His significant mistakes last much longer in the memory than his positives and apart from little patches here and there of good form, I find him to be highly mediocre, and a last remnant example of Fegusons total blindside to fixing his midfield.

What significant mistakes did he make that stick out?

Carrick has been one of the most consistent midfielders in Europe for the last 10 years

akelly02

bangkok wrote: »

What significant mistakes did he make that stick out?

Carrick has been one of the most consistent midfielders in Europe for the last 10 years

own goal in europa league and mistake after mistake in that game

disaster in fa cup final, gave the ball straight to an opposing player who was almost in on goal.

bangkok

akelly02 wrote: »

own goal in europa league and mistake after mistake in that game

disaster in fa cup final, gave the ball straight to an opposing player who was almost in on goal.

Lol

Your Airbag

TheDoc wrote: »

I guess it's more that it conflicts with you understanding of Football.

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about football, and I am one of those that don't rate him highly at all.His significant mistakes last much longer in the memory than his positives and apart from little patches here and there of good form, I find him to be highly mediocre, and a last remnant example of Fegusons total blindside to fixing his midfield.

The trouble with the judging of a player, especially a holding midfielder like Carrick, is that in tends to be based on tackles, interceptions etc, although those are all important traits they are not ones that Carrick leads the field in.

Carrick as a defensive MF under LVG, was the main point in the transition between attack and defence. He is more of a silent operator, not a flashy player but with who reads the games exceptionally well.

He puts out fires, has a great positional sense that gives his team mates the licence to play more and his forward incisive passing is good.

Before he was injured and ruled out playing for LVG Utd ha a 72% win ratio with him in the side, 35% without.

If you can't see his influence your looking in the wrong places.

Pro. F wrote: »

Who exactly would this be?

I stated it clearly in my post, why do you need me to state it again? Well here goes. Anyone who doesn't think he's a good MF player.

master-t

Annnddd.....we're back to this.

Carrick has been one of our better CMs over the last few years. But that wasn't hard when he lined up next to Fellaini (I really laugh when I read people saying he's good for MUFC, it shows how far we've fallen), Basti, Herrera (I love the boy, but he's not consistent - hopefully Jose finds a way for him). This thread will still have people saying Cleverley could have had a big future with United and is a 'great player'.

Thing with Carrick is that he's getting on in years now, and our midfield would be far more dominant, purposeful and energetic with the likes of Pogba and Scheinderlein or Herrera or even Blind.

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

What significant mistakes did he make that stick out?

Carrick has been one of the most consistent midfielders in Europe for the last 10 years

I'd also be interested to hear your answer to this Doc.

akelly02 wrote: »

own goal in europa league and mistake after mistake in that game

disaster in fa cup final, gave the ball straight to an opposing player who was almost in on goal.

Just lol. An own goal in the Europa League is one of his standout mistakes? and the time he gave the ball away that didn't lead to a goal?

Every player ever has given away the ball. How people judge players is just comical at times.

Lets write Keane off because off that time he scored an own goal against Madrid in the UCL and the other time he played Batistuta clean through on goal for a chance he did convert, in the UCL.

Maximus Alexander

Any word on the Wesley Sneijder deal? Club's been preparing that bid for a while now.

master-t

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Any word on the Wesley Sneijder deal? Club's been preparing that bid for a while now.

In August 2011, the Guardian reported that the Daily Mirror reported that Wesley Sneijder would join Manchester United ‘within the next 48 hours’.

It is now 43,728 hours and counting.......

Probably the next day or two I'd say.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

I stated it clearly in my post, why do you need me to state it again? Well here goes. Anyone who doesn't think he's a good MF player.

Fair enough. The term "good" can be a bit open to interpretation though, since it's all relative. But I'm trying to understand if you agree with my criticism of him, or think it's reasonable, or if you think that my criticism is wrong and displays a lack of understanding of even the basics of football.

Do you agree that he is, and has been, a good but limited player, who has problems with being pressed? That this issue holds him back from being a top level player? Is that about right, or is that an opinion displaying a lack of understanding of even the basics of football?

Your Airbag

sky88 wrote: »

Did you watch him play last season he was terrible and tbh if he starts games this year i would be worried.

An great player for united but this was the summer to let him go.

Not many looked good last season but the point we are debating here is whether or not Carrick is a good player so that spans his entire career not just one season and as you already called him great I can see we agree on this point

SEANoftheDEAD

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Any word on the Wesley Sneijder deal? Club's been preparing that bid for a while now.

Things will hopefully speed along now that Gaitan has signed for Athlético Madrid.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Fair enough. The term "good" can be a bit open to interpretation, since it's all relative. But I'm trying to understand if you agree with my criticism of him, or think it's reasonable, or if you think that my criticism is wrong and displays a lack of understanding of even the basics of football.

Do you agree that he is, and has been, a good but limited player, who has problems with being pressed? That this issue holds him back from being a top level player? Is that about right, or is that an opinion displaying a lack of understanding of even the basics of football?

It lacks the understanding imo. Firstly your judging off Carrick falls under into what I mentioned earlier, this type of rigid set of criteria that people and the media seem to have set in stone as too what makes a good MF player. Tough tackling, powerful runs, quick footed and lots of flair etc.............and yes all of that is important but player can be good in other ways. Also you said he is a good player just now but certain skills have stopped him from becoming a top player and my point was about those who don't rate him so are we even in disagreement?

When judging him to be a top player or not you have to start by judging him properly against similar players.

Carrick at the base of midfield he can bring in players to the attack, his choice of pass means he rarely gives the ball away, this allows the team to build from the back.

His awareness of whats going on around him, his ability to intercept passes, then get back into position what the gives the entire team an attacking stronghold in a game is where Carrick excels. A lot of this ugly stuff goes unseen and a lot of players don't want to do it or cant.

Scholes put it well

He is not a flash footballer. He doesn’t hit Hollywood passes. He doesn’t score lots of goals. But I loved playing alongside him. He was always in the right place. He gave me licence to play

Carrick is not going to dance his way out of a situation like Iniesta, he knows that and doesn't play to that weakeness.

Similar players to judge him against and those considered top players would be Busquets and Pirlo. Pirlo is flashy and quick footed at getting away from players under preessure, Busquets less so but considered a master of his position and but was often and still by some overlooked and underated, as Carrick has said about him also. Those players have an avg of 1.7 interceptions per game, and have a passing success percentage of 92% and 88% respectively. Carricks right in the middle with 89%. In total Utd have won 68% of their games with Carrick and 62% without.

The problem comes when Carrick looks bad because the team is playing bad and is not allowed to use his football brain when we are constantly under pressure but nobody looks good in those situations and unfortunately that's been happening a lot to UTD lately.

So Carricks ability to shut down threats benefits the entire team, and this is before I even get to his creative side, which is massively underrated

Neville put it well in terms of Carricks positional awareness

It’s relaxing. Listening to some good rock is good and you like that too but sometimes it’s nice to listen to a piano. Carrick’s a piano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgAC2dQfqM

After the cleaning up and firefighting duties Carrick is very forwarding thinking with his passing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WxIDmv-Ak

All is all these combination of abilities is what makes Carrick a very strong player overall.

jaykay74

master-t wrote: »

I understand it that Basti didn't attend many matches whilst injured, something expected of senior players at the club,. Apparently this pissed off a lot of players. Poor Phil Jones even went to away matches.

Basti hasn't done much to convince me he isn't phoning it in.

Rayne Wooney

Transfer deals like this don't happen on a Saturday, and Sunday is a day of rest. So we'll have to reset the 48 hour clock to 00:00 Monday morning. It'll probably happen at Tuesday midday.

Kirby

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well technically it's 11.59.59, on 31st August, but might just need another 48 hours to be sure, to be sure.

Didnt they change this recently? I thought the new window closes at 6pm.

The_Kew_Tour

The problem with Carrick was that he was not really a "Man United" player.

He wasn't a Charlton, Robson, Keane Scholes or Nobby Stiles.

But we was good, very good. Good enough to play for Man United. The downside to a Carrick is that he needs a technically more all rounded player or advance player next to him. Scholes/Carrick partnership for 06-10 period was excellent, it enabled Scholes to unleash his own potential from a Attacking Midfielder to been a super Advanced Playmaker who got assists for fun.

Edit: he was also the primary reason the famous 4-6-0 worked a treat

TheTownie

Jose press conference transcript taken from Reddit;

14:00 - Interviewers are in; here comes the boss!

14:01 - Opening question is about Bastian; Mourinho doesn't fully confirm it, but he has strongly indicated that Schweinsteiger is not a part of his initial 23-Man Squad. He wants 20 players and 3 goalkeepers. "What is happening? In every club in the world this happens, the manager decides his squad."

14:02 - We have 22 players now. We can expect 23 players before the start of the season. He confirms the deal to bring a 23rd Player is in progress.

14:03 - When asked about if that is Pogba; I don't want to talk about other players in such a way. Pogba is a Juventus player until he isn't. The market is closing on the 31st August, but the club is trying to formally close the squad before the 14th.

14:05 - A slight discussion about Pre-Season. Bemoans that we missed the game against City, as it cost us a week of Pre-Season. Their is no more training, so we have to treat Leicester like a real game, this is not a training game. This game needs a meaning, and it has a meaning. To play this game, you have to won the League or FA Cup, and they won the Cup. The 6 changes available gives chance for changes. It gives a chance for minutes.

14:06 - Asked about how different his team is to a Louis van Gaal team, and does it bring any issues: Yes, my play is very different to that of Mr. Van Gaal. Not better, but different. They have principles that are different to mine, but after 2 years of working a certain way, it is then automatic. It is difficult to change, but we're trying hard to change it, and they are giving everything to try and adapt, and this will be my team.

14:08 - Who has had the best transfer window: I don't talk about others. I have heard others talk about us, that I think is ethical. The reality is I don't
speak about the others, they can do what they want. But our market was good. We decided to bring 4 players that are Man United level and can improve the squad, not 10. We have a young central defender who needs time, but is showing to be top potential. But we bought a creative man, we bought a Super Striker and we're about to sign a top Central Midfielder.

That's all for now. Very short session.

jayo26

Haha jose was commenting about other managers talking about united in the transfer market.

He said he is happy with what we are doing and of other clubs don't like it its there problem.

Said only thing that happened bastian was he wasn't in his final squad.


That has to be fair enough if he doesn't need him well then he shouldn't just leave him in squad for sake of it.


Edit: sorry townie good job with your minutes

Adamcp898

Pro. F wrote: »

Every single sentence in your post here refers to who said what; an attack on my posting style or my character. Not a single one related to Fellaini, his skill or the technical discussion of the position.

I could carry on responding to your distractions, trying to pin you down to what you have said and proving you wrong about what I supposedly haven't addressed, etc, but I don't need to.

I tried to be polite with you from the start, but you constantly moved the topic from Fellaini to questions of how the conversation was being conducted. You have spoofed constantly about anything other than the topic. I'm done wasting my time trying to discuss Fellaini with you. If you ever manage to get back to discussing Fellaini, then I might respond to that.

And with this post your scramble for the high-ground reaches its culmination.

You've spent the entire time misinterpreting everything I've said and when I attempt to correct you all you do is moan about how I'm not addressing your false reasoning - I can only assume in the hope that I'll relent and just go along with whatever the rest of your copy and pasted response is.

From the beginning your argument was off-point but instead of the numerous chances you had to revisit it you just chose to keep trundling down the path you were on. Your posts read like a sound-bite somebody read or heard somewhere that they thought was insightful and then gets reproduced while attempting to labuoriously flesh it out with fluffy language that adds nothing to the original idea nevermind develops it.

You then finish these posts off with cheap throwaway bull**** lines in order to try and assert your authority, but I guess according to you that counts for trying to be "polite".

Why do you think anyone would ever respond to a comment that is concluded with something like this:

"But since you have expressed the opinion that the relevant skills (first touch, close control, etc) are relatively uniform amongst all top level CMs, then that's hardly surprising."

I mean that alone is enough to tell anyone that, at the very least, there's no reason to take anything you say seriously. It's basic discourse. But I guess that would mean an end to making up what the other person is saying then huh.

I'm out.

Flint Fredstone

TheTownie wrote: »

Jose press conference transcript taken from Reddit;

"We're about to sign a top Central Midfielder"

bangkok

Your Airbag wrote: »

It lacks the understanding imo. Firstly your judging off Carrick falls under into what I mentioned earlier, this type of rigid set of criteria that people and the media seem to have set in stone as too what makes a good MF player. Tough tackling, powerful runs, quick footed and lots of flair etc.............and yes all of that is important but player can be good in other ways. Also you said he is a good player just now but certain skills have stopped him from becoming a top player and my point was about those who don't rate him so are we even in disagreement?

When judging him to be a top player or not you have to start by judging him properly against similar players.

Carrick at the base of midfield he can bring in players to the attack, his choice of pass means he rarely gives the ball away, this allows the team to build from the back.

His awareness of whats going on around him, his ability to intercept passes, then get back into position what the gives the entire team an attacking stronghold in a game is where Carrick excels. A lot of this ugly stuff goes unseen and a lot of players don't want to do it or cant.

Scholes put it well



Carrick is not going to dance his way out of a situation like Iniesta, he knows that and doesn't play to that weakeness.

Similar players to judge him against and those considered top players would be Busquets and Pirlo. Pirlo is flashy and quick footed at getting away from players under preessure, Busquets less so but considered a master of his position and but was often and still by some overlooked and underated, as Carrick has said about him also. Those players have an avg of 1.7 interceptions per game, and have a passing success percentage of 92% and 88% respectively. Carricks right in the middle with 89%. In total Utd have won 68% of their games with Carrick and 62% without.

The problem comes when Carrick looks bad because the team is playing bad and is not allowed to use his football brain when we are constantly under pressure but nobody looks good in those situations and unfortunately that's been happening a lot to UTD lately.

So Carricks ability to shut down threats benefits the entire team, and this is before I even get to his creative side, which is massively underrated

Neville put it well in terms of Carricks positional awareness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgAC2dQfqM

After the cleaning up and firefighting duties Carrick is very forwarding thinking with his passing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WxIDmv-Ak

All is all these combination of abilities is what makes Carrick a very strong player overall.

Super post, agree with all of it.

Rio Ferdinand always said it was a dream to play with carrick, calm under pressure and always available to receive a pass

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The problem with Carrick was that he was not really a "Man United" player.

He wasn't a Charlton, Robson, Keane Scholes or Nobby Stiles.

But we was good, very good. Good enough to play for Man United. The downside to a Carrick is that he needs a technically more all rounded player or advance player next to him. Scholes/Carrick partnership for 06-10 period was excellent, it enabled Scholes to unleash his own potential from a Attacking Midfielder to been a super Advanced Playmaker who got assists for fun.

Edit: he was also the primary reason the famous 4-6-0 worked a treat

Carrick was class with Tottenham as well before he left to join us.

If he wasn't a United player he wouldn't be still here after 11 years.

Every player in his position needs an attacking player beside him. Look at busqeuts at barca, very same as Carrick but had Xavi and iniesta beside him for years

TheTownie

Press conference video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbAq11-LinE