Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Robson99

Someone questioned who was the better Robson or Keane??
Both were brilliant players. Robbo probably slightly better attacking and scoring with his head, Keane possibly better in a deeper role. However since Robbo signed I would have him, Keane and Scholes in a midfield 3 all day long. 3 middle of the park players we will still be talking about in years to come

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

What significant mistakes did he make that stick out?

Carrick has been one of the most consistent midfielders in Europe for the last 10 years

I can't recall the specific games or years, but I've three specific passages of play in my head that got us turfed out of Europe in the SAf era. Remember one he was in a horrid run of form and benched, came on and within like 10 minutes had ****ed up and conceded.

Carrick does absolutely nothing deserving of the praises he receives, nothing.

Trond

TheDoc wrote: »

I can't recall the specific games or years, but I've three specific passages of play in my head that got us turfed out of Europe in the SAf era. Remember one he was in a horrid run of form and benched, came on and within like 10 minutes had ****ed up and conceded.

Carrick does absolutely nothing deserving of the praises he receives, nothing.

Of course he does ffs

magnumbud

TheDoc wrote: »

I can't recall the specific games or years, but I've three specific passages of play in my head that got us turfed out of Europe in the SAf era. Remember one he was in a horrid run of form and benched, came on and within like 10 minutes had ****ed up and conceded.

Carrick does absolutely nothing deserving of the praises he receives, nothing.

carrick came in had a great 3 to 4 year period and had 2-3 seasons that i was with you calling for him to be out but has been great since that dip again

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I can't recall the specific games or years, but I've three specific passages of play in my head that got us turfed out of Europe in the SAf era. Remember one he was in a horrid run of form and benched, came on and within like 10 minutes had ****ed up and conceded.

Carrick does absolutely nothing deserving of the praises he receives, nothing.

Ah come on, that is the biggest pile of crap post ever!!

hufpc8w3adnk65

TheTownie wrote: »

Press conference video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbAq11-LinE

All he was short was to say hold up a Pogba 6 shirt

StringerBell

26 man squad he wants then

magnumbud

StringerBell wrote: »

26 man squad he wants then

huh?

StringerBell

magnumbud wrote: »

huh?

He said usually he goes with 20+3 but because of the EL he is has decided to go with 23+3

23 outfield players, we currently have 22 and will sign 1 more, as per the video.

magnumbud

StringerBell wrote: »

He said usually he goes with 20+3 but because of the EL he is has decided to go with 23+3

23 outfield players, we currently have 22 and will sign 1 more, as per the video.

thats not the way i took what he said.

i thought he said he usually has 20 outfield and 3 gk and currently has 22 and we will add 1 ( very good cm ) to make it a 23 man squad including keepers

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

It lacks the understanding imo. Firstly your judging off Carrick falls under into what I mentioned earlier, this type of rigid set of criteria that people and the media seem to have set in stone as too what makes a good MF player. Tough tackling, powerful runs, quick footed and lots of flair etc.............and yes all of that is important but player can be good in other ways. Also you said he is a good player just now but certain skills have stopped him from becoming a top player and my point was about those who don't rate him so are we even in disagreement?

When judging him to be a top player or not you have to start by judging him properly against similar players.

Carrick at the base of midfield he can bring in players to the attack, his choice of pass means he rarely gives the ball away, this allows the team to build from the back.

His awareness of whats going on around him, his ability to intercept passes, then get back into position what the gives the entire team an attacking stronghold in a game is where Carrick excels. A lot of this ugly stuff goes unseen and a lot of players don't want to do it or cant.

Scholes put it well

Carrick is not going to dance his way out of a situation like Iniesta, he knows that and doesn't play to that weakeness.

Similar players to judge him against and those considered top players would be Busquets and Pirlo. Pirlo is flashy and quick footed at getting away from players under preessure, Busquets less so but considered a master of his position and but was often and still by some overlooked and underated, as Carrick has said about him also. Those players have an avg of 1.7 interceptions per game, and have a passing success percentage of 92% and 88% respectively. Carricks right in the middle with 89%. In total Utd have won 68% of their games with Carrick and 62% without.

The problem comes when Carrick looks bad because the team is playing bad and is not allowed to use his football brain when we are constantly under pressure but nobody looks good in those situations and unfortunately that's been happening a lot to UTD lately.

So Carricks ability to shut down threats benefits the entire team, and this is before I even get to his creative side, which is massively underrated

Neville put it well in terms of Carricks positional awareness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgAC2dQfqM

After the cleaning up and firefighting duties Carrick is very forwarding thinking with his passing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WxIDmv-Ak

All is all these combination of abilities is what makes Carrick a very strong player overall.

That's a good, detailed explanation of your thinking on Carrick. Since I've explained my thinking many, many times, including in the last 24 hours, I won't repeat it now.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Also you said he is a good player just now but certain skills have stopped him from becoming a top player and my point was about those who don't rate him so are we even in disagreement?

It certainly seems that we are in disagreement. I asked you
"Do you agree that he is, and has been, a good but limited player, who has problems with being pressed? That this issue holds him back from being a top level player? Is that about right, or is that an opinion displaying a lack of understanding of even the basics of football?"
The first line of your response was "It lacks the understanding imo." And you followed up with an explanation of why you think he is a very strong player, compared him favourably to Busquets and Pirlo (when playing in Italy presumably) and said that I was being led by rigid, popular and media opinion on what makes a good CM. So yes, we are obviously in disagreement.

The funny thing is, not that long ago (in Fergie's last season I think), you more or less agreed with me on Carrick's limitations and how they have kept him from being good enough for the very top level of European football. Now you think that opinion displays a lack of understanding of even the basics of football. That's quite a change.

StringerBell

magnumbud wrote: »

thats not the way i took what he said.

i thought he said he usually has 20 outfield and 3 gk and currently has 22 and we will add 1 ( very good cm ) to make it a 23 man squad including keepers

Nope, right there in plain English.

"I normally like to work with 20 players plus the 3 goalkeepers, which is what I do for 15 years"

Talks about the Europa League commitments

"So I made the decision to be with 23 players, plus 3 goalkeepers, which I think is still a lot"

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Every player in his position needs an attacking player beside him. Look at busqeuts at barca, very same as Carrick but had Xavi and iniesta beside him for years

Busquets is not the same as Carrick. He has a better first touch and he is a good dribbler.

paulbok

magnumbud

StringerBell wrote: »

Nope, right there in plain English.



Talks about the Europa League commitments

i must have switched off listening to him

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Busquets is not the same as Carrick. He has a better first touch and he is a good dribbler.

He is never under pressure either as barca regularly have 70% possession so it's much easier to have a great first touch when there is nobody near you.

Veron had a great first touch and control while in Italy, when he came to England it was a much different prospect. He failed miserably, decent few games but overall was a flop.

StringerBell

No.

jayo26

Pogba hasn't posted anything on social media in nearly 48 hours...... 48 plus 48 is 96 so minus 48 that leaves 48 so I say he will be a united player in 48 hours or maybe 96 hours.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Ah come on, that is the biggest pile of crap post ever!!

That's pretty rich coming from you.

It's an opinion I have that clearly doesn't sit well, so it will just be a roundabout debate ala Nani etc. So there really isn't a point in me getting defensive over it.

But literally no one will ever convince me that Carrick is deserving of the praise and labels he receives.

I'm not calling him a bad player, I'm just saying he is definitely not the wonderful midfielder everyone has a circlejerk over.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

He is never under pressure either as barca regularly have 70% possession so it's much easier to have a great first touch when there is nobody near you.

That's not how football works.

bangkok wrote: »

Veron had a great first touch and control while in Italy, when he came to England it was a much different prospect. He failed miserably, decent few games but overall was a flop.

I'm not interested in talking about Veron. It was too long ago and wouldn't trust any of us to remember what Veron's first touch was really like when he was in Italy.

That_Guy

I know I'm in a Manchester United thread full of Manchester United fans but....

Is anyone else sick of Mourinho's bollocks already?

Tedious.

deaddonkey15

That_Guy wrote: »

I know I'm in a Manchester United thread full of Manchester United fans but....

Is anyone else sick of Mourinho's bollocks already?

Tedious.

What bollocks?

MagicIRL

jayo26 wrote: »

Pogba hasn't posted anything on social media in nearly 48 hours...... 48 plus 48 is 96 so minus 48 that leaves 48 so I say he will be a united player in 48 hours or maybe 96 hours.

But I've also been doing some research and I may have uncovered something incredible...

Pogba has five letters, right? Well if you break it down you get P-o-g-b-a. Ok? Five letters? What else has five letters Field!

But there's more...

If you take the letters in Pogba and re-arrange them you can get this.


But look closer, using special IT zoom,

I bet you didnt notice that before I showed you.

Footballers play in triangles.

Illuminati.

Adamocovic

That_Guy wrote: »

I know I'm in a Manchester United thread full of Manchester United fans but....

Is anyone else sick of Mourinho's bollocks already?

Tedious.

If you're sick of him before a ball is even touched in a competitive game, it's going to be a long season for you :P

I was one with my doubts about Mourinho coming in, something I'm sure is biased due to history but he hasn't done anything yet to make me sick of him, quite the opposite, seems to have everything in control at the moment.

That_Guy

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

What bollocks?

His jibes at Wenger/Klopp etc.

I get it, they're rivals but it's like a dog with a bone. Just let go and focus on your own bleedin' team.

I don't usually follow all the goings on but I can't escape the radio and the various soundbites that have plagued my ears this off season. Getting tiresome.

ElChe32

That_Guy wrote: »

His jibes at Wenger/Klopp etc.

I get it, they're rivals but it's like a dog with a bone. Just let go and focus on your own bleedin' team.

I don't usually follow all the goings on but I can't escape the radio and the various soundbites that have plagued my ears this off season. Getting tiresome.

So another manager questions your teams transfer policy and he's not allowed to comment when asked about it?

That_Guy

ElChe32 wrote: »

So another manager questions your teams transfer policy and he's not allowed to comment when asked about it?

NO!!



I know he's not the only one who engages in this type of stuff but he's the most prominent.. or at least he's the one whose soundbites I've heard the most.

I didn't realise the others were at it too. In that case, they should all shut up and just focus on the aul football.

I can usually drown it out but this week seems to be worse for that sort of thing.

Flint Fredstone

That_Guy wrote: »

NO!!



I know he's not the only one who engages in this type of stuff but he's the most prominent.. or at least he's the one whose soundbites I've heard the most.

I didn't realise the others were at it too. In that case, they should all shut up and just focus on the aul football.

I can usually drown it out but this week seems to be worse for that sort of thing.

Have you been in the Liverpool and Arsenal thread asking them if they're tired of Klopp and Wenger commenting on United's transfer policy?

jayo26

That_Guy wrote: »

NO!!



I know he's not the only one who engages in this type of stuff but he's the most prominent.. or at least he's the one whose soundbites I've heard the most.

I didn't realise the others were at it too. In that case, they should all shut up and just focus on the aul football.

I can usually drown it out but this week seems to be worse for that sort of thing.

He was asked to comment on other clubs business I thought he gave the perfect answer and it is the other managers that seems to have the bone from what I see.

People were building up jose vs pep but so far they the ones that have answered and acted properly and been respectful.

castletownman

The cult of the manager is amazing.

I mean I was one of numerous fans who were questioning the appoint of Mourinho solely on some of the unsavoury, damn right odious, traits of his personality. This very thread had people harbouring doubts about his character, not to mention his tendency to jump ship after three seasons (leaving destruction in his wake).

And in the midst of Rooney's rather public regression, this thread was also full of people suggesting that Schweni be made captain in his stead (even in a non-playing role).

It's amazing now how people are firmly in the pro-Jose camp in whatever is happening with Schweni.

While Jose claims he is not in his plans, which is fair enough, the way he is treating him certainly smacks of "bullying". The season hasn't even started yet, and I am worrying that the odious side of Jose's personality is already rearing it's ugly head. I fear him sticking blindly to Rooney too, just like the previous two managers in this post-Fergie landscape.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a good, detailed explanation of your thinking on Carrick. Since I've explained my thinking many, many times, including in the last 24 hours, I won't repeat it now.



It certainly seems that we are in disagreement. I asked you
"Do you agree that he is, and has been, a good but limited player, who has problems with being pressed? That this issue holds him back from being a top level player? Is that about right, or is that an opinion displaying a lack of understanding of even the basics of football?"
The first line of your response was "It lacks the understanding imo." And you followed up with an explanation of why you think he is a very strong player, compared him favourably to Busquets and Pirlo (when playing in Italy presumably) and said that I was being led by rigid, popular and media opinion on what makes a good CM. So yes, we are obviously in disagreement.

The funny thing is, not that long ago (in Fergie's last season I think), you more or less agreed with me on Carrick's limitations and how they have kept him from being good enough for the very top level of European football. Now you think that opinion displays a lack of understanding of even the basics of football. That's quite a change.

Its not a change, you are now bringing the phrases "top level footballer" and now "top european level" into it, when I said already twice to you, anyone who thinks Carrick is not a good footballer is simply wrong and doesn't understand the game enough to see why.

Also Carrick has been preforming well at the top European level and domestic level quite well through one of the clubs most prestigious periods and I have argued with you before about why Carrick is good, as far back as the SAF era iirc.

Also anytime I have heard you talk about Carrick its been about his lack of ability to when pressed to quick footedly get out of situation or his lack of good first touch when under pressure to get away from a player. These things I have never claimed he has had and would have agreed with anyone who said so. I have never heard you mention any of the other qualities he posses, so this is either a lack of understanding to see those qualities and there importance or just a bias to willingly ignore them to make your self serving false point, neither of which are a good thing.

If you can't reasonably rebut any of the points or statistics I made in my post about Carricks qualities then fine but stop trying to move the goal posts.

jimmytwotimes 2013

That_Guy wrote: »

His jibes at Wenger/Klopp etc.

I get it, they're rivals but it's like a dog with a bone. Just let go and focus on your own bleedin' team.

I don't usually follow all the goings on but I can't escape the radio and the various soundbites that have plagued my ears this off season. Getting tiresome.

Did Klopp not get his retaliation in first?

The Wenger stuff is going on for years alright, he might secretly fancy him.

Flint Fredstone

castletownman wrote: »

The cult of the manager is amazing.

I mean I was one of numerous fans who were questioning the appoint of Mourinho solely on some of the unsavoury, damn right odious, traits of his personality. This very thread had people harbouring doubts about his character, not to mention his tendency to jump ship after three seasons (leaving destruction in his wake).

And in the midst of Rooney's rather public regression, this thread was also full of people suggesting that Schweni be made captain in his stead (even in a non-playing role).

It's amazing now how people are firmly in the pro-Jose camp in whatever is happening with Schweni.

While Jose claims he is not in his plans, which is fair enough, the way he is treating him certainly smacks of "bullying". The season hasn't even started yet, and I am worrying that the odious side of Jose's personality is already rearing it's ugly head. I fear him sticking blindly to Rooney too, just like the previous two managers in this post-Fergie landscape.

While it's not nice it's kind of understandable in a way. He's not wanted but he wants to hang around on his big wages that he's hasn't done enough to earn tbh, it's a business decision.

I do share your Rooney concern though. I honestly think the club would be much better off without him. It's not so much the poor performances but the knock on effect of players playing out of position to accommodate him.

magnumbud

castletownman wrote: »

The cult of the manager is amazing.

I mean I was one of numerous fans who were questioning the appoint of Mourinho solely on some of the unsavoury, damn right odious, traits of his personality. This very thread had people harbouring doubts about his character, not to mention his tendency to jump ship after three seasons (leaving destruction in his wake).

And in the midst of Rooney's rather public regression, this thread was also full of people suggesting that Schweni be made captain in his stead (even in a non-playing role).

It's amazing now how people are firmly in the pro-Jose camp in whatever is happening with Schweni.

While Jose claims he is not in his plans, which is fair enough, the way he is treating him certainly smacks of "bullying". The season hasn't even started yet, and I am worrying that the odious side of Jose's personality is already rearing it's ugly head. I fear him sticking blindly to Rooney too, just like the previous two managers in this post-Fergie landscape.

I know he may win us stuff, he's probably the nearest thing to a sure bet but football is not that straight forward, but i'm not a fan of his.

Aside from never really enjoying watching his teams play and never seeming to put much faith in building players through his own academy which both he could prove me wrong for the incident with him trying to poke tito vilanova in the eye really is something that i cant get passed its a disgusting thing to try to do to another person and could have seriously damaged a mans vision if he had scratched his eyeball.

duffman13

castletownman wrote: »

The cult of the manager is amazing.

I mean I was one of numerous fans who were questioning the appoint of Mourinho solely on some of the unsavoury, damn right odious, traits of his personality. This very thread had people harbouring doubts about his character, not to mention his tendency to jump ship after three seasons (leaving destruction in his wake).

And in the midst of Rooney's rather public regression, this thread was also full of people suggesting that Schweni be made captain in his stead (even in a non-playing role).

It's amazing now how people are firmly in the pro-Jose camp in whatever is happening with Schweni.

While Jose claims he is not in his plans, which is fair enough, the way he is treating him certainly smacks of "bullying". The season hasn't even started yet, and I am worrying that the odious side of Jose's personality is already rearing it's ugly head. I fear him sticking blindly to Rooney too, just like the previous two managers in this post-Fergie landscape.

Bullying is a very strong word. He's told a Profesional athlete on 200k a week he's surplus to requirements. If an offer comes in or Schweinsteiger wants to leave I'm sure the club will facilitate it. He's not fired him or made him take a pay cut, he just made it clear he won't feature this season.

I wanted Bastian to be a success, I really did however I want Manchester United to be successful more therefore if Jose deems him surplus I have no problem with that. Mourinho needs to back up his actions with results and hes backing himself with his squad selections.

alchemist33

TheDoc wrote: »

That's pretty rich coming from you.

It's an opinion I have that clearly doesn't sit well, so it will just be a roundabout debate ala Nani etc. So there really isn't a point in me getting defensive over it.

But literally no one will ever convince me that Carrick is deserving of the praise and labels he receives.

I'm not calling him a bad player, I'm just saying he is definitely not the wonderful midfielder everyone has a circlejerk over.

At the risk of a 10 page debate, that's exactly how I feel about Kroos!


But I'll just have to accept people more learned than me e.g. various managers, see what I can't.

Headshot

Still want that CB and RB to finish off a great summer

wintear

As we could do with another centre back in the squad and we are buying back our former youth players. Is it worth buying Ryan Shawcross as cover for CB?

Trigger

MagicIRL wrote: »

But I've also been doing some research and I may have uncovered something incredible...

Pogba has five letters, right? Well if you break it down you get P-o-g-b-a. Ok? Five letters? What else has five letters Field!

But there's more...

If you take the letters in Pogba and re-arrange them you can get this.




But look closer, using special IT zoom,

I bet you didnt notice that before I showed you.

Footballers play in triangles.

Illuminati.

Who's Pbgba? Can he play midfield?

Billy86

wintear wrote: »

As we could do with another centre back in the squad and we are buying back our former youth players. Is it worth buying Ryan Shawcross as cover for CB?

Absolutely not!

He's not a bad defender but wouldn't cut it at the top level I reckon, is quite important to Stoke so it's not like we'd just be picking him up for free/very cheap as a stop gap, he turns 29 in October so is likely as good as he will ever be (and with his style of play, could be on the way down as little as 2-3 years from now).

If it comes to it, I'd rather keep 1-2 of Jones or Rojo; have Smalling, Blind & Bailly as CBs 1-3, CBJ & TSM as the young guys with potential that have shown they can cut it in the first team already, Rojo and/or Jones as some experienced backup and Darmian/Carrick as 'in a pinch' emergency CBs. Granted Jones & Rojo are not good enough for their roles there, but look to move them on in January or next summer. Hopefully at that point TFM/CBJ have established themselves more again to give us 5 solid options at CB... but if not, then we need to buy.

Don't get me wrong I would like a CB signing and both Jones/Rojo gone, but I just don't know that the right person is available right now. Not sure if Jose would be given the funds, but I'd absolutely say to break the bank for someone in the Hummels/Bonucci class of player, and if the price were right, would be happy to get someone of lesser ability (but an upgrade on Jones/Rojo. The problem is neither type of player really seems to be all that available right now.

MagicIRL

astradave wrote: »

Who's Pbgba? Can he play midfield?

Anything is possible when you're a reptilian shapeshifter. :cool:

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Who's Pbgba? Can he play midfield?

He is fantastic I watched him in the youths he is gonna be world class can play in 10 different positions so he is nearly as good as John O Shea

IamtheWalrus

So it looks like the deal is done. I had applied healthy sceptism of late but Jose's comments today confirm the deal. Moyes must be sickened.

adox

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

So it looks like the deal is done. I had applied healthy sceptism of late but Jose's comments today confirm the deal. Moyes must be sickened.

You didn't apply a healthy secptism, you told us earlier in the week he ain't signing for us, he was signing for Madrid and it was time for us all to move on.

adox

That_Guy wrote: »

His jibes at Wenger/Klopp etc.

I get it, they're rivals but it's like a dog with a bone. Just let go and focus on your own bleedin' team.

I don't usually follow all the goings on but I can't escape the radio and the various soundbites that have plagued my ears this off season. Getting tiresome.

I'd advise you to get the whole story and the context of his answers before jumping in here with both feet.

adox

Oh and while I'm having a good moan, I'd advise Castletownman(or who ever it was) to look up the meaning of bullying.

Laughable to call it that.

Trigger

jayo26

Anyone else keep thinking "Castletownman" says "castlewoman" at first glance?????

No??? Just me??? Ok

castletownman

jayo26 wrote: »

Anyone else keep thinking "Castletownman" says "castlewoman" at first glance?????

No??? Just me??? Ok

Just you Jayop

Robson99

Schweinstiger surplus to requirements so f**kin what. Bigger players and players who were far bigger club legends were surplus to requirements. He is on 200k per week. Spent half last season flying all over the place. Fair play to Jose. If he dont need him why keep him???
Would be pissed off if it was one of our younger players coming through but Schweinstiger is past it. Move on