Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

JaMarcusHustle

JakeArmitage wrote: »

Big dig at Barca by Zlatan here, claiming that this is the biggest club he's ever played for and the only other club he can compare it with is Milan , LOL

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/zlatan-ibrahimovic-says-manchester-united-8583138

Well to be fair, Barcelona aren't a club. They are a holy entity, floating above the clouds, sparkling of gold flaked fairy dust while baby cherubs with angel wings and fat bellys pluck the strings of a magical harp. Feeding starving children, rebuilding trodden communities, rescuing beaten wives. A friend to the poor and an answer to difficult questions. There is no tragedy they cannot remedy. No tax they cannot dodge. No steroid they cannot inject.

This isn't a club.

This is Barcelona.

Més que un club.

The_Kew_Tour

I loved Rooney and backed him to hilt, but last season and even couple games seen him this summer, he's been terrible.

If he continues like that for few games Jose has to drop him. We can't afford passengers.

Adamocovic

zerks wrote: »

His touch today was atrocious and his passing and awareness were almost at a similar level.For somebody who wants to dictate 90%+ of our play that is not acceptable.

If we are talking about this game in particular then Fellaini had the most possession for our team with 7.5% of our total and 82 touches. Surprisingly Bailly, Blind and Valencia were the players next in order of most touches and time on the ball, which doesn't sound too great when you think about it :pac:

Flint Fredstone

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I loved Rooney and backed him to hilt, but last season and even couple games seen him this summer, he's been terrible.

If he continues like that for few games Jose has to drop him. We can't afford passengers.

For me there's a better option in every position that he can supposedly play.

Trigger

:pac:

Jose's the biggest transfer muppet of the lot

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/762349342615363585

Jose wrote:

If it goes well in the medical, which I think he will - I see on Instagram he does kung-fu, karate, running, basketball, football - everything, so he must be fit - on Tuesday I will be there waiting for him, if that is the situation for us.

deaddonkey15

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Yeah because he's got higher standards to adhere to than most. I don't know of any other player in the bracket that he is supposed to be in that plays as consistently terrible and takes so long to get up to speed.

He doesn't though. This isn't some U-12 side where there's a handful of decent players and a load of little sh*t ones. This is Manchester United. Everyone has to perform to a high standards. Just because Rooney is captain he must put in a 10/10 every week whilst his teammates, who are all multi millionaire international footballers, are expected to only put in a 8/10 performance? Ridiculous.

Polo_Mint

pudzey101 wrote: »

Fair player but in no way worth >100 mil dont know how ya can class a player From £1.5m to £89m in four years hahahahaha

How sweet, the mentality of someone who is a jack of all trades but a scholar of none.


You think Pogba only possesses the same talent he had when he was 19 dont you?

StringerBell

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He doesn't though. This isn't some U-12 side where there's a handful of decent players and a load of little sh*t ones. This is Manchester United. Everyone has to perform to a high standards. Just because Rooney is captain he must put in a 10/10 every week whilst his teammates, who are all multi millionaire international footballers, are expected to only put in a 8/10 performance? Ridiculous.

I don't think anybody is saying that though.

scudzilla

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He doesn't though. This isn't some U-12 side where there's a handful of decent players and a load of little sh*t ones. This is Manchester United. Everyone has to perform to a high standards. Just because Rooney is captain he must put in a 10/10 every week whilst his teammates, who are all multi millionaire international footballers, are expected to only put in a 8/10 performance? Ridiculous.

If Rooney consistently put in 8/10 performances i'd be delighted but it's been a LONG time since he's done anything like that, more like 6/10 with the occasional 8, and that's just not good enough for our captain

RasTa

I do feel a bit sorry for him looking at his last two tweets

https://twitter.com/BSchweinsteiger

TheTownie

Jose on Pogba;

"United is the perfect club to bring him to the level he wants to be,"

"The Premier League is the perfect habitat if you want to be the best player in the world. If you go to Barca or Madrid you are in trouble, because I don't think the other two big guys will let you develop to that level."

"Here he has the conditions to develop in the biggest worldwide championship, with a team that wants to bring Manchester United to the top again. We have everything to give him. Money he will get in any big club. He comes because he knows the club, the city, many of the players and to be part of the Man United project."

"If it goes well in the medical, which I think he will - I see on Instagram he does kung-fu, karate, running, basketball, football - everything, so he must be fit - on Tuesday I will be there waiting for him, if that is the situation for us."

"This has been a good window for us; [Eric] Bailly, Pogba, [Zlatan] Ibrahimobvic, [Henrikh] Mkhitaryan. One defender, one midfielder, one striker, one creative. The squad is good."

"But we need to work a lot. We need more weeks of work. I am happy that for three weeks we have just a match for the weekend."

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He doesn't though. This isn't some U-12 side where there's a handful of decent players and a load of little sh*t ones. This is Manchester United. Everyone has to perform to a high standards. Just because Rooney is captain he must put in a 10/10 every week whilst his teammates, who are all multi millionaire international footballers, are expected to only put in a 8/10 performance? Ridiculous.

"Lead by example" and all that jazz. He pushed to become one of the highest paid footballers in the world, wants to be captain and is positioned as the main driving creative force in the team. So yeah, he absolutely will be judged harsher than other players, quite simply because he has worked hard to put himself in a position where he wants to be treated like one of the best in the world.

Polo_Mint

RasTa wrote: »

I do feel a bit sorry for him looking at his last two tweets

https://twitter.com/BSchweinsteiger

I dont.

I expect to get into the Squad is like a high jump competition.

Keep the bar rising and if you fuck up on your number of attempts then cheerio.

bmcc10

Polo_Mint wrote: »

How sweet, the mentality of someone who is a jack of all trades but a scholar of none.


You think Pogba only possesses the same talent he had when he was 19 dont you?

Not a great logic it's like saying how can Mahrez Kante be worth so much in one year, Time moves on football moves on.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Ibra_official/status/762358601839177728

ericzeking

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Ibra_official/status/762358601839177728

How much will he pocket from Nike for that....jeez

Liam McPoyle

Someone mentioned earlier about giving kudos to Woody for getting the Pogba deal done.

While him and the Glazers obviously deserve credit for getting it done and sanctioning the move, having Jose at the helm is as big a reason if not a bigger reason that he has joined us.

Make no mistake, this is a massive statement of intent.

In Bailly and Pogba thats two that could be the spine of the team for a decade to come.

We have Miki who has to be allowed time to integrate, coming into his prime years.

Zlatan is of course only a stop gap (not a bad one to have tbf) but with Martial and Rashers only kids, Shaw coming back in leaps and bounds we have a very young squad overall.

All going well we will be back in the Champions League by this time next year then go all out for an all star forward.

I'd be looking at Griezmann, he will have just turned 26, has a buyout clause of £70 odd million and having Pogba at the club will hopefully make us more attractive to him.

At the moment I think we need a right back. Jose seems to fancy Val but he is just too flaky for my liking. A couple of assists do not mask the fact that he is not nor will he ever be a defender.

Its going to take some time for team to gel and it will probably be a drip feed basis to get Pogba back to match level fitness but the future is very bright for the club.

I will retain the same aspirations for the season as I had when Jose was first announced.

Comfortable top 4 finish and to be there or thereabouts come May.

Win the EL or retain the FA cup.

If thats how the season plays out I'll be delighted.

Anything better and I will be over the bloody moon.

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

"Lead by example" and all that jazz. He pushed to become one of the highest paid footballers in the world, wants to be captain and is positioned as the main driving creative force in the team. So yeah, he absolutely will be judged harsher than other players, quite simply because he has worked hard to put himself in a position where he wants to be treated like one of the best in the world.

Did anyone notice how any partnership attempted to be built with him never seems to work?

Even a talent like Zlatan today seemed like he was invisible to Rooney who never seemed to get the ball to him let alone create a chance.For a fella who wants to be our main number 10 he really doesn't do much in linking up with his strike partners.

Adamocovic

zerks wrote: »

Did anyone notice how any partnership attempted to be built with him never seems to work?

Even a talent like Zlatan today seemed like he was invisible to Rooney who never seemed to get the ball to him let alone create a chance.For a fella who wants to be our main number 10 he really doesn't do much in linking up with his strike partners.

I don't think we can put Zlatans performance down to solely the fact he had Rooney on the field with him. Rooney isn't the only player allowed to pass to him. We had Martial and Lingard out wide both expected to provide for him.

Zlatan took his goal well, missed a great chance Rooney happened to give him and had an awful completion rate for passing (worst in our team), but he did his job and scored the winning goal, which is what matters.

On a broader note it's one game, so I wouldn't judge the Zlatan Rooney partnership just yet, in the game against Everton the two had some promising moments. We'll have to wait and see how it progresses during the season.

Discodog

We must be boring again:

Thepoet85

zerks wrote:

Did anyone notice how any partnership attempted to be built with him never seems to work?

I think him and RVP did ok together.

Cantona's Collars

Thepoet85 wrote: »

I think him and RVP did ok together.

Did you see the last season they played together? At times they managed to go through entire games without passing to each other.

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He doesn't though. This isn't some U-12 side where there's a handful of decent players and a load of little sh*t ones. This is Manchester United. Everyone has to perform to a high standards. Just because Rooney is captain he must put in a 10/10 every week whilst his teammates, who are all multi millionaire international footballers, are expected to only put in a 8/10 performance? Ridiculous.

The higher standards I'm talking about are due to his status as a supposed top player. I'm not saying he has to put in more effort than everybody else, he is playing so much further off what is expected of him than anybody else in the squad IMO.

You can obsess all you want about overall performance. The difference with Zlatan and Rooney was clear. His first touch is way better and he made a crucial contribution by scoring the goal.
If Zlatan looses the ball which he will, I don't care as long as he does his job and score goals.
Rooney looks so obsessed with getting involved with every aspect of play it's turning out to be totally detrimental to him.
He just doesn't look comfortable playing football which is most concerning.
The shots he's taking look weak, his Hollywood passes are frustrating, he slows down play, he can't even complete a simple return pass, he lost possession multiple times.
All this stuff is highlighted when he can't actually create a bit of magic either. The excuses for him have gone on long enough. He's a club legend but at the end of the day he's a player like everyone else. For the good of the team he needs to be dropped.

LeeJM

Adamocovic instead of using stats to bring down everybody elses performance try and just watch Rooney in a game. He has been awful (barring maybe 5 games) for the last 18-24 months. He is and will continue to be held to the standard that is expected of every single Manchester United captain, to go out and lead by example. He is our highest paid player and yet based on performances he should be the very last player from our 23 man squad to be considered for a starting berth.

The Rooney problem and debate isnt going to go away until he leaves the club. If he continues to perform as he has then I expect he will be benched by Oct. Jose isnt gonna be afraid to drop him. And then we will see Rooney and all his press mates getting stroppy. It happened with Fergie and it will happen again with Jose. It will be painted as Jose disrespecting Englands greatest goalscorer, they will have a "falling out", Rooney is being forced out etc etc etc. Its not gonna be a clean break up.

Cantona's Collars

There's a thread on Redcafe now discussing Rooney,even his diehard fans have turned against him and are saying the only reason he will be in the team for now at least is the fact he wields so much influence in the dressing room and Jose doesn't want to rock the boat so early in his tenure as manager.

Here's one opinion:

Try throwing a football at a watering can tonight. You'll see how the ball looks when Wayne Rooney touches it these days. Cant believe what I'm seeing half the time. He's shocking.

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

There's a thread on Redcafe now discussing Rooney,even his diehard fans have turned against him and are saying the only reason he will be in the team for now at least is the fact he wields so much influence in the dressing room and Jose doesn't want to rock the boat so early in his tenure as manager.

Here's one opinion:

Its funny there was talk in the media of a contract extension.

Utd would be ****ing mad to give him a contract

Vic Vinegar

Headshot wrote: »

Its funny there was talk in the media of a contract extension.

Utd would be ****ing mad to give him a contract

It was his agent saying he would sign a new contract. No indication from the club whatsoever.

Cantona's Collars

Headshot wrote: »

Its funny there was talk in the media of a contract extension.

Utd would be ****ing mad to give him a contract

English media won't criticise him but seemingly the commentators on Talksport were saying how poor his touch was.
The one saving grace this season is that we have plenty who can play in his position.

scudzilla

i'd be offering him to the chinese


But doubt they'd use him for delivery as that's gone to shite

Cantona's Collars

scudzilla wrote: »

i'd be offering him to the chinese


But doubt they'd use him for delivery as that's gone to shite

Wait until he plays himself into form come December,that'll show us.

deaddonkey15

The reality is his touch the vast majority of the time is fine, any poor touch is just magnified and over exaggerated

Thepoet85

zerks wrote:

Did you see the last season they played together? At times they managed to go through entire games without passing to each other.

Yea I remember that alright, but I also remember them winning a league title together, and "that goal" which probably skewered my memory

PhlegmyMoses

zerks wrote: »

English media won't criticise him but seemingly the commentators on Talksport were saying how poor his touch was.
The one saving grace this season is that we have plenty who can play in his position.

It looked like our players were playing a game of kerbs when they passed him the ball. I desperately want him to rediscover his form because he was truly world class at his peak but it's looking less and less likely that this will happen.

That performance today wasn't a million miles away from how we played last year. If you still have Rooney in rotten form, an aging Carrick and Fellaini in the centre, that likely won't change. And expecting Pogba to come in and change everything is unrealistic and unfair. The midfield needs to change for our style of play to change and Rooney is a part of that.

fatherted1969

pudzey101 wrote: »

Fair player but in no way worth >100 mil dont know how ya can class a player From £1.5m to £89m in four years hahahahaha

Has Mahez value increased quicker I wonder. 400k to 45m would be a similar jump in value in less time

Adamocovic

LeeJM wrote: »

Adamocovic instead of using stats to bring down everybody elses performance try and just watch Rooney in a game.

While I won't be addressing the comments on Rooney because I have many times said my piece about him I will address the comment aimed at me.

Of course I watch him play. I along with most other fans have probably nearly watched every United game possible, be it a match in preseason at 2am or a league game during the weekend. Find it a bit odd you telling me to try watch him play, of course I watch him play.

Watching performances people generate their opinions on players, but I do believe a lot, myself included, can watch games with tinted views to further their opinions. With stats however you get facts, irregardless of how people view a player. Unbiased.

Yes stats might not always paint the whole picture but they do reassert a persons opinion and why they have it.

Also I'm not bringing down everyone else's performances I've stated many times in my opinion Lingard, Bailly and Fellaini were the best players today and I don't agree that Rooney was the worst player on the pitch, as many suggest.

If I'm really getting questioned for using statistics to back up my opinion then I really don't know where to go from here. I'm kind of baffled by it to be honest.

I'm more than willing to stop using statistics to support my opinions and go down the route of just expecting people to agree or see the sense in them just because it's how I see it rather than backing it up with some evidence of sorts. If that's what preferred.

Rayne Wooney

Zlatan and Rooney on the pitch together isn't going to work

Cantona's Collars

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The reality is his touch the vast majority of the time is fine, any poor touch is just magnified and over exaggerated

His 2nd touch these days tends to be a tackle.

Valencia probably has the best first touch in the squad,you rarely see him miscontrol a pass.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

It looked like our players were playing a game of kerbs when they passed him the ball. I desperately want him to rediscover his form because he was truly world class at his peak but it's looking less and less likely that this will happen.

That performance today wasn't a million miles away from how we played last year. If you still have Rooney in rotten form, an aging Carrick and Fellaini in the centre, that likely won't change. And expecting Pogba to come in and change everything is unrealistic and unfair. The midfield needs to change for our style of play to change and Rooney is a part of that.

I'd agree with all of this bar the point about Fellaini

PhlegmyMoses

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The reality is his touch the vast majority of the time is fine, any poor touch is just magnified and over exaggerated

Because of expectation. No matter how many times people ignore its existence, it's there and rightly so. We've all see him do magical stuff at this club, we want to see more. At the end of the day, Rooney was ruthless with his own expectations for this club when we were selling Ronaldo and the likes and his contract was up so we need to be the same. If he isn't pulling up trees, we need to acknowledge that and move on.

PhlegmyMoses

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd agree with all of this bar the point about Fellaini

I rate Fellaini and he does a lot well as he showed today, but he is not going to be a creative and driving force in your midfield. If your other two midfielders don't offer that, your midfield three is lacking.

Cantona's Collars

Pogba coming into the team will probably lead to Rooney being phased out.

Speaking of Pogba,the fee being mentioned is £89 million.While being a huge sum isn't too off the wall when you line it up alongside the transfers of David Luiz (mediocre) Andy Carroll (the same) or Fernando Torres (in decline)
Put it this way,a bid of £30 million for Troy Deeney was rejected....£30 MILLION FOR DEENEY!!! That puts things into perspective.In a world where he is deemed to be worth more than £30 million then £89 million for somebody who is light years ahead isn't too crazy after all.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I rate Fellaini and he does a lot well as he showed today, but he is not going to be a creative and driving force in your midfield. If your other two midfielders don't offer that, your midfield three is lacking.

He did his job excellently. Retained possession, his distribution with the ball was great. He broke up play.
With Pogba and a choice of Herrera / Morgan I think it would defiantly work as a midfield trio. He can be creative but that doesn't mean it needs to be constantly in an attacking sense. Each person in midfield has a role. It's not going to be same for each.

deaddonkey15

zerks wrote: »

His 2nd touch these days tends to be a tackle.

Again, untrue and an over exaggeration that stopped being humorous a long time ago.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Because of expectation. No matter how many times people ignore its existence, it's there and rightly so. We've all see him do magical stuff at this club, we want to see more. At the end of the day, Rooney was ruthless with his own expectations for this club when we were selling Ronaldo and the likes and his contract was up so we need to be the same. If he isn't pulling up trees, we need to acknowledge that and move on.

People here can't move on though. They largely ignore how anonymous the likes of Mata and Herrera are, or how many times Martial loses possession, but any poor pass or touch by Rooney and it's "f*ck off Rooney" written by 3 or 4 posters. Fellaini get's similar over the top criticism.

PhlegmyMoses

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He did his job excellently. Retained possession, his distribution with the ball was great. He broke up play.
With Pogba and a choice of Herrera / Morgan I think it would defiantly work as a midfield trio. He can be creative but that doesn't mean it needs to be constantly in an attacking sense. Each person in midfield has a role. It's not going to be same for each.

Yeah, that's the point I'm trying to make, badly I guess. He's fine creatively and adds a lot when he plays, but if your midfield three is Fellaini, Carrick and Rooney in his current form, you're missing a creative spark. Rooney in his current position needs to be doing a lot more with releasing the wide players quickly, playing through balls for the striker (or into Zlatan's feet) and keeping their deep lying defence honest with a few well struck long shots. He did none of this well today and hasn't done for a long time. We'll see glimpses, but nothing consistent

JakeArmitage

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He did his job excellently. Retained possession, his distribution with the ball was great. He broke up play.
With Pogba and a choice of Herrera / Morgan I think it would defiantly work as a midfield trio. He can be creative but that doesn't mean it needs to be constantly in an attacking sense. Each person in midfield has a role. It's not going to be same for each.

Jose has confirmed that Pogba will play as a 6, he said we have plenty of 10's but needed a strong player that can play deeper which seems to be it will be him and 1 other midfielder, that other midfielder isnt set in stone because there are question marks over all the other midfielders at the club, none out of Carrick, Schneiderlin, Herrera or Fellaini has a place rubber stamped in the team, Cant see it being Herrera for sure

DM_7

Rooney is a different player to what he was 3 years ago.

So far Rooney hasn't played at a consistent level as he tried to deal with the passing years. He has years of hard graft behind him now so parts of his game have to change. SAF had his mind made up that Rooney's time was up but he got a new chance under Moyes then LVG.

I think he has shown flashes of the great player and influence but not often enough.

At this stage he should be more like what we saw from Cantona or Sherringham, they used their brains and skill. They influenced the game by finding space and bringing teammates into the game from an advanced position. Cantona forced things up the pitch but Rooney tries to do it in the middle of the pitch.

They could trust their teammates to get the ball to them but Rooney plays like he thinks he has to do it himself. That undermines what he is good at and makes it harder for teammates to find space as lets the opposition midfield mark him leaving defenders free to cover United's other attackers.

Hopefully players like Pogba, Mkhitaryan will help Rooney have the belief in his colleagues so he can take on less responsibility in midfield.

PhlegmyMoses

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Again, untrue and an over exaggeration that stopped being humorous a long time ago.



People here can't move on though. They largely ignore how anonymous the likes of Mata and Herrera are, or how many times Martial loses possession, but any poor pass or touch by Rooney and it's "f*ck off Rooney" written by 3 or 4 posters. Fellaini get's similar over the top criticism.

Whataboutery doesn't really make Rooney any better though. Mata and Herrera have not hit the heights expected of them and I wouldn't be crying if either were sold (although I suspect that mata would suddenly rediscover his form elsewhere, just a gut feeling). Martial hasn't been great for about 3 months, but to be expected for somebody his age. None of this really changed Rooney's actual form though and the expectation that our marquee player should be doing marquee things. If he isn't, why wouldn't we get another marquee player that we pay 300k a week to instead of persisting with him? It's what he would have done had we no paid him enough, or been in the running for titles, so what's good for the goose and all.

Cantona's Collars

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Again, untrue and an over exaggeration that stopped being humorous a long time ago.



People here can't move on though. They largely ignore how anonymous the likes of Mata and Herrera are, or how many times Martial loses possession, but any poor pass or touch by Rooney and it's "f*ck off Rooney" written by 3 or 4 posters. Fellaini get's similar over the top criticism.

All get criticism,Martial was poor today but at least he tried.Rooney is top dog at the club on the highest wages yet has declined so much you begin to forget that he used to be a good player.Those who command the most recognition and wages must reach certain standards no matter their job,alas Rooney is no longer up to the task.
We laughed at Liverpool and Gerrard when they kept him for too long yet we are doing the same with Rooney.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/762397102706155520

Paul Pogba-Manchester United: a done deal. The player is not yet in Manchester, is now with his agent Mino Raiola and tomorrow, together, will arrive in the morning in the city. There the French midfielder will support a medical and will sign the contract that will make him back a United player.

Pending the press by the two clubs, these should be the figures of the transfer, with a three-year payment: €105 million plus 5 bonus. The 5 million bonus to Juventus could materialize if in 5 years Pogba will make another contract renewal with United or will be sold by United for a figure of more than 50 million. These conditions and these are the figures of the operation, but the final figure should then be deprived of the part that will be up to the agent Raiola for mediation in the operation.