Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

GSPfan

jayo26 wrote: »

I really don't think that is going to stop it's a crucial part of his management style. It creates the US against the world attitude and takes focus and pressure off the players.

I don't care much what he says just let him off as long as we have no controversial moments anything else to do with refs and managers will just wind up rival fans and that be fun.

I agree with you with regard to his digs at other managers, I love that, but when he is going at referees it's generally a sign of his frustration and that comes out when things aren't going well. It also leads to touchline bans and fines and it is just generally nasty. I would rather see him cut that out.
No problem with him saying the referee made a bad decision here and there but when he starts saying there is a big conspiracy against his team then it just looks plain ridiculous.

GSPfan

Lingard scored some whoppers last season. Honestly never thought he'd make it at United but he has his uses.

Billy86

GSPfan wrote: »

Lingard scored some whoppers last season. Honestly never thought he'd make it at United but he has his uses.

I also get the impression that despite the FA Cup goal he is still happy to fight for time, rather than expecting it. He's got some tools but obviously isn't nearly on the same talent level as some other guys, but his attitude seems absolutely brilliant. Guys like that are extremely important to have in a team - just look at Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea, Park etc from the great 2006-11 team, all hardly Vidic/Ferdinand's, Scholeseseseses or Ronaldo's, but still talented and exceptional characters which is a key part of a squad.

Mitch Connor

Does the treatment of januzaj and schweinsteiger not show that if mourinho really wanted to sell mata that he would not have been a very active member since we they came back to preseason.

I think mata only leaves if he requests it. I don't think United or mourinho are looking to push him out the door.

GSPfan

Just got to the part of the season where Rashford made his debut and scored 4 goals in two games. I'm expecting Rashford to be an absolute superstar in a couple of years.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

So what your really saying is that Jose is damned if Mata looks happy and damned if Mata looks angry/sad?

We will find out in the next 19 days if Jose really wants mata in the squad or not

GSPfan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Does the treatment of januzaj and schweinsteiger not show that if mourinho really wanted to sell mata that he would not have been a very active member since we they came back to preseason.

I think mata only leaves if he requests it. I don't think United or mourinho are looking to push him out the door.

I agree. But I honestly think Everton would pay a hansom fee for him and if Mata asks to go then he would happily be sold. But I think Mourinho has no problem with him being in the team. He just may not get much game time in important matches.
I also think Mourinho is aware that his transfer funds are spent so if Mata goes he wants top dollar for him and will need top dollar to buy a proper replacement in a hurry. You get a better price for players you seemingly don't want to let go.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Does the treatment of januzaj and schweinsteiger not show that if mourinho really wanted to sell mata that he would not have been a very active member since we they came back to preseason.

I think mata only leaves if he requests it. I don't think United or mourinho are looking to push him out the door.

That's the way I see it and if Mourinho wanted to "humiliate" him in the charity shield match he would have brought him off after around 70mins and not with 2 mins to go.

Adamcp898

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Does the treatment of januzaj and schweinsteiger not show that if mourinho really wanted to sell mata that he would not have been a very active member since we they came back to preseason.

I think mata only leaves if he requests it. I don't think United or mourinho are looking to push him out the door.

But Mata has good market value though. And he already humiliated him.

Schweinsteiger doesn't and while I'd like to think we'd get money for Januzaj, I'm not sure there'd be a lot of clubs running for him and particularly not any that have bags of cash.

adox

"Humiliated him."


Some of you lads n lassies need to get some perspective.

GSPfan

Ha, I totally forgot there was a bomb scare at Old Trafford on the last day of the season. Mental.

yabadabado

GSPfan wrote: »

I agree. But I honestly think Everton would pay a hansom fee for him and if Mata asks to go then he would happily be sold. But I think Mourinho has no problem with him being in the team. He just may not get much game time in important matches.
I also think Mourinho is aware that his transfer funds are spent so if Mata goes he wants top dollar for him and will need top dollar to buy a proper replacement in a hurry. You get a better price for players you seemingly don't want to let go.

I would be disgusted if Mata ended up at Everton they are well below his level.

Adamcp898

adox wrote: »

"Humiliated him."


Some of you lads n lassies need to get some perspective.

Seriously?

GSPfan

yabadabado wrote: »

I would be disgusted if Mata ended up at Everton they are well below his level.

They are but Id rather see Mata playing in a decent team than rotting on a bench of a better team myself. Neither option fills me with joy.

StringerBell

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Seriously?

Very seriously.

Adamcp898

StringerBell wrote: »

Very seriously.

It's piss behaviour tbh

StringerBell

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's piss behaviour tbh

Why?

I'll engage with you if you want to flesh out your problem with it and specifically why it is in your opinion, humiliating. Never mind the piss behaviour part.

Trigger

Its moan for the sake of moaning tbh..

CR 7

bangkok wrote: »

In fairness, he's at training messing around with the lads, just because he is laughing doesn't mean he's not happy. Sure sweignsteiger posted a picture of himself yesterday saying he was happy in Manchester and he's not even in the first team squad!!

Yeah, looks absolutely ecstatic.

Adamcp898

StringerBell wrote: »

Why?

I'll engage with you if you want to flesh out your problem with it and specifically why it is in your opinion, humiliating. Never mind the piss behaviour part.

Generous of you......and it's piss behaviour because it is something humiliating for the other person, obviously.

At all levels, in most team sports, to bring somebody on as a substitute and then to take them off again is akin to saying they're ****e.

Now in some cases this is true, somebody genuinely can be having a stinker and have to be taken off for the greater good of the team. This I have no problem with, it is humiliating for the person nonetheless but even they upon reflection generally realise why it was done and it's forgotten about.

But Jose decided to take off Mata for no better reason than to flex his own muscle over a player to whom he had already done the same. He attempted to justify it afterwards and put a spin on it by claiming it was for the height of 5'10 HMk to defend set pieces even though said player was at the edge of the box for Leicester's long throw-in's and went to cover the short option for their corner in the final minute.

To take a substitute off again when they're not having a horrible game is viewed as an insult to that person by most.

astradave wrote: »

Its moan for the sake of moaning tbh..

Because it's not the same as your opinion assumingly

Trigger

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Because it's not the same as your opinion assumingly

Nope, its because you are making a mountain out of a molehill while being hyperbolic in the extreme

Adamcp898

astradave wrote: »

Nope, its because you are making a mountain out of a molehil while being hyperbolic in the extreme

What in your opinion was exaggerated?

Trigger

Adamcp898 wrote: »

What in your opinion was exaggerated?

This

Adamcp898 wrote: »

But Mata has good market value though. And he already humiliated him.

This

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's piss behaviour tbh

And especially this..

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Generous of you......and it's piss behaviour because it is something humiliating for the other person, obviously.

At all levels, in most team sports, to bring somebody on as a substitute and then to take them off again is akin to saying they're ****e.

Now in some cases this is true, somebody genuinely can be having a stinker and have to be taken off for the greater good of the team. This I have no problem with, it is humiliating for the person nonetheless but even they upon reflection generally realise why it was done and it's forgotten about.

But Jose decided to take off Mata for no better reason than to flex his own muscle over a player to whom he had already done the same. He attempted to justify it afterwards and put a spin on it by claiming it was for the height of 5'10 HMk to defend set pieces even though said player was at the edge of the box for Leicester's long throw-in's and went to cover the short option for their corner in the final minute.

To take a substitute off again when they're not having a horrible game is viewed as an insult to that person by most.



Because it's not the same as your opinion assumingly

Adamcp898

astradave wrote: »

This

This

And especially this..

Pretty much the biggest bull**** post I've seen on the Soccer forum but at least you managed to get past the passive aggressive inability to use the quote function, well done :rolleyes:

Trigger

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Pretty much the biggest bull**** post I've seen on the Soccer forum but at least you managed to get past the passive aggressive inability to use the quote function, well done :rolleyes:

theres that hyperbole again.

Maybe you should have a look at your own posting style before commenting on others

You asked me what IMO was exaggerated and i answered you :rolleyes:

Adamcp898

astradave wrote: »

Maybe you should have a look at your own posting style before commenting on others

So your style is intentionally to make random undirected statements in the hope the person you want to respond does??

EDIT: To account for your ninja edit;

I asked you what you thought was exaggerated and you came back with a petty bull**** retort

Trigger

Adamcp898 wrote: »

So your style is intentionally to make random undirected statements in the hope the person you want to respond does??

EDIT: To account for your ninja edit;

I asked you what you thought was exaggerated and you came back with a petty bull**** retort

StringerBell

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Generous of you......and it's piss behaviour because it is something humiliating for the other person, obviously.

It is not automatically humiliating. It is not the default setting for what happened.

At all levels, in most team sports, to bring somebody on as a substitute and then to take them off again is akin to saying they're ****e.

It is dependent on the situation of the game, same as this particular one with Mata, he was brought on with 30 minutes to go when we were looking for a goal, he was taken off in injury time at the end of the game, while we were ahead and looking to waste time.

But Jose decided to take off Mata for no better reason than to flex his own muscle over a player to whom he had already done the same.

This is your own spin on the situation, it is likely a pre conceived notion you have and you will use confirmation bias to back up this theory, such as now.

He attempted to justify it afterwards and put a spin on it by claiming it was for the height of 5'10 HMk to defend set pieces even though said player was at the edge of the box for Leicester's long throw-in's and went to cover the short option for their corner in the final minute.

He had 6 substitutes which is unusual, he used that last one in injury time, to waste time, not to have any great impact on the game. Mata being the smallest player on the pitch and an attacker made the most sense. It is actually a plausible explanation.

I am surprised more people are not up in arms that Miki was brought in this summer for big money and then humiliated by being left on the bench until there was 1 minute left in injury time to throw him on, clearly showing him he was not valued.

To take a substitute off again when they're not having a horrible game is viewed as an insult to that person by most.

It is barring certain scenarios generally, but as with everything in life. There are exceptions.

I stand by my original assertion that if you think Mata was humiliated by Jose in the CS you need to get a grip.

Its hyperbole and sensationalist ****e tbh.

It would have been sending more of a message if he had not brought Mata on even though he had 6 subs to use, and because he said the game was influenced by the players who had played in the final. To leave Mata out then would have been worse surely? Lord only knows what you would think if he had the nerve to bring Miki on after 60 minutes, then bring Mata on for the final minute of injury time instead!

Or how about simply excluding him from the first team ala Basti!

JakeArmitage

Do ye expect Zlatan to be as good as Ruud lads?

Adamocovic

Jaysus the match can't come quick enough

bangkok

for any footballer at any level, be it premier league, championship, div 3, conference, non league, sunday league, pub team, coming on as a sub and getting substituted is the most humiliating thing that can happen to a footballer. No matter what the excuse is by the manager, to bring a player on and take him back off again, no matter how many seconds remain or whatever the circumstance it is the biggest insult to any player.

im guessing the people on here defending Jose's actions have never played football at ant level and i reckon the people saying jose was wrong have played football at some sort of level.

that would be my gut feeling on the matter

Adamocovic

JakeArmitage wrote: »

Do ye expect Zlatan to be as good as Ruud lads?

If he's anywhere near what Ruud was for us we are in for a serious treat

I'm just looking forward to seeing how team does now. Hopefully we get a good start.

Personally I think Zlatan will slip in to the league effortless. He's been there done that and one of the most important things for a striker is his strong mentality, it would take a lot to phase him.

StringerBell

JakeArmitage wrote: »

Do ye expect Zlatan to be as good as Ruud lads?

No.

Of course, they are completely different players, but still, no.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

for any footballer at any level, be it premier league, championship, div 3, conference, non league, sunday league, pub team, coming on as a sub and getting substituted is the most humiliating thing that can happen to a footballer. No matter what the excuse is by the manager, to bring a player on and take him back off again, no matter how many seconds remain or whatever the circumstance it is the biggest insult to any player.

im guessing the people on here defending Jose's actions have never played football at ant level and i reckon the people saying jose was wrong have played football at some sort of level.

that would be my gut feeling on the matter

Please don't ever change.

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

for any footballer at any level, be it premier league, championship, div 3, conference, non league, sunday league, pub team, coming on as a sub and getting substituted is the most humiliating thing that can happen to a footballer.

What about the time Lineker literally crapped himself against us? :P

I understand your point at it being something the player finds embarrassing, I've witnessed it myself playing and obviously players weren't impressed straight after.

But I would be of the opinion that some of the stuff coming out is very over the top. I doubt it was some act by Jose to intentionally humiliate Mata, like people are saying, and I also doubt it would be the reason for him to supposedly force a move away.

Anyway, that's all I'm saying on the matter and the Bournemouth match can't come quick enough so we can move on to actual football to talk about.

JakeArmitage

Adamocovic wrote: »

If he's anywhere near what Ruud was for us we are in for a serious treat

I'm just looking forward to seeing how team does now. Hopefully we get a good start.

Personally I think Zlatan will slit in to the league effortless. He's been there done that and one of the most important things for a striker is his strong mentality, it would take a lot to phase him.

Personally I think Zlatan is technically a better player but he doesnt have Ruuds pace or finishing ability despite scoring 51 goals last season

Whatsisname

JakeArmitage wrote: »

Personally I think Zlatan is technically a better player but he doesnt have Ruuds pace or finishing ability despite scoring 51 goals last season

I don't remember Ruud being particularly fast?

Pyjamarama

So if Jose wasn't doing it as a display (subbing Mata) then could someone tell me the reason? If it was to bring on height then surely there was a better option than the 5ft 10 guy?

Son Of A Vidic

Maybe it's just me, but if Jose really had a problem with Mata, then he wouldn't have even made the subs bench for the game last Sunday.

StringerBell

Whatsisname wrote: »

I don't remember Ruud being particularly fast?

He was quick over a short distance alright, but maybe I am remembering wrong and it was just his pure instinct and class that made it seem like he always got that extra half yard he needed, he showed a bit of pace and dribbling ability in that goal v Fulham where he ran in from the half way line taking on a couple and beating them and shooting so quick the keeper never had a chance!

He was certainly no speedster, but in and around the box he was ****ing lethal. Very possibly the best pure goalscorer the league has seen, in the discussion.

bangkok

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but if Jose really had a problem with Mata, then he wouldn't have even made the subs bench for the game last Sunday.

or the other side of the coin, he wants it to seem like Mata is part of the squad and is not for sale, hence getting the best price possible for him. If he threw him in the reserves like bastian you can take 5-10m off his price straight away

caviardreams

Pyjamarama wrote: »

So if Jose wasn't doing it as a display (subbing Mata) then could someone tell me the reason? If it was to bring on height then surely there was a better option than the 5ft 10 guy?

Pretty sure Mkhitaryan was the only unused sub left so the only option.

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

He was quick over a short distance alright, but maybe I am remembering wrong and it was just his pure instinct and class that made it seem like he always got that extra half yard he needed, he showed a bit of pace and dribbling ability in that goal v Fulham where he ran in from the half way line taking on a couple and beating them and shooting so quick the keeper never had a chance!

He was certainly no speedster, but in and around the box he was ****ing lethal. Very possibly the best pure goalscorer the league has seen, in the discussion.

he wasnt really, he just had an unbelievable knack of being in the right place at the right time and as you say, if you gave him hard a yard in the box, he would bury it. also how many goals did beckham and giggs lay on a plate for him.

bangkok

caviardreams wrote: »

Pretty sure Mkhitaryan was the only unused sub left so the only option.

Romero was there as well, 1.91m in height

Adamocovic

caviardreams wrote: »

Pretty sure Mkhitaryan was the only unused sub left so the only option.

nope he could have stuck on Romero

Adamcp898

astradave wrote: »

Just go back to the tractor, the plane, the Kate Upton gifs, the SSN screenshots, or whatever one you do

StringerBell wrote: »

It is not automatically humiliating. It is not the default setting for what happened.



It is dependent on the situation of the game, same as this particular one with Mata, he was brought on with 30 minutes to go when we were looking for a goal, he was taken off in injury time at the end of the game, while we were ahead and looking to waste time.

That is your opinion and what we're discussing, the second part is just repeating Jose's justification.

StringerBell wrote: »

This is your own spin on the situation, it is likely a pre conceived notion you have and you will use confirmation bias to back up this theory, such as now.



He had 6 substitutes which is unusual, he used that last one in injury time, to waste time, not to have any great impact on the game. Mata being the smallest player on the pitch and an attacker made the most sense. It is actually a plausible explanation.

Why is it likely?

So why not use the 6 substitutes to make sure more players get as much game time as possible?

Or, if he doesn't feel he wants to then just use 5, noone told him he had to use them all.

StringerBell wrote: »

I am surprised more people are not up in arms that Miki was brought in this summer for big money and then humiliated by being left on the bench until there was 1 minute left in injury time to throw him on, clearly showing him he was not valued.

There's several other scenarios for this eventuality too if you want to get into them

StringerBell wrote: »

It is barring certain scenarios generally, but as with everything in life. There are exceptions.

I stand by my original assertion that if you think Mata was humiliated by Jose in the CS you need to get a grip.

Its hyperbole and sensationalist ****e tbh.

So you recognise that it can be rationally viewed as an insult?

StringerBell wrote: »

It would have been sending more of a message if he had not brought Mata on even though he had 6 subs to use, and because he said the game was influenced by the players who had played in the final. To leave Mata out then would have been worse surely? Lord only knows what you would think if he had the nerve to bring Miki on after 60 minutes, then bring Mata on for the final minute of injury time instead!

It would've sent a message, but this also sends one too.

Pray tell what would I have been thinking?

If you recognise that it can be viewed as insulting, then tell me what is it that in your opinion makes it an insult to the player if it's not that it's embarassing?

The fact remains that in a meaningless match Jose decided to put on and then take off a player with whom he's had a questionable pass to say the least. Then add in to this his previous in terms of fallings out and it's not that all unbelievable or sensationalist imo.

And there's a reason we've been speculating the week since on where Mata could end up too don't forget i.e. this episode has had something to do with it.

Trigger

caviardreams wrote: »

Pretty sure Mkhitaryan was the only unused sub left so the only option.

Exactly.. so to waste time he is not going to withdraw a cm or defender. Keep Rashford speed on for the counter.

Whatsisname

StringerBell wrote: »

He was quick over a short distance alright, but maybe I am remembering wrong and it was just his pure instinct and class that made it seem like he always got that extra half yard he needed, he showed a bit of pace and dribbling ability in that goal v Fulham where he ran in from the half way line taking on a couple and beating them and shooting so quick the keeper never had a chance!

He was certainly no speedster, but in and around the box he was ****ing lethal. Very possibly the best pure goalscorer the league has seen, in the discussion.

Almost seems like a forgotton man now that we're discussing him. Haven't seen much about him since I started reading here!

Never forget the goal away to Charlton in '05 I think, where Rooney ran from his own half or so, lobbed it onto Ruuds chest, lil twirl and smashed it top corner. Pure instinct and class you're talking about there.

Always sad to think of how his career ended in controversy at United, such a fantastic player.

JaMarcusHustle

Ruud is very easily my favourite ever United player.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

he wasnt really, he just had an unbelievable knack of being in the right place at the right time and as you say, if you gave him hard a yard in the box, he would bury it. also how many goals did beckham and giggs lay on a plate for him.

Chicken and egg

They can only lay them on a plate if he is in the right area, and he can only score so prolifically when he is being provided with good service though he did not need it put on a plate, just a sniff of goal.

He was unbelievably good at what he did, love that guy.

Look at his goalscoring record, 150 in 219 games, all time European goalscorer with 38.

I will never forget the 02-03 season, he scored in every one of the final 8 games in that close run in with Arsenal in 03, (overhauling an 8 point deficit along the way from March) 25 in 34 in the league, 12 in Europe too!

Feckin miss that proper footballing rivalry between United and Arsenal too