Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Hank Scorpio

Great technique by the big man for the goal

bangkok

Great start to the season, can't wait for the home game now and pogbas debut as well.

Very solid today, zlatan class finish decent free kick as well. Fellaini solid midfield and bailly excellent. Rooney decent as well

Polo_Mint

Jayop wrote: »

I'm just delighted. Not a game or performance for the ages but a really nice comfortable win.

This...... but we lost this game last season so its a massive result this season.

Whatsisname

Find it absolutely bizarre people thought Rooney played well today.

Pro. F

Lots to like about that performance (and last week's too).

It's easy to say, since they both scored, but the Ibra and Rooney partnership is showing some nice signs. Even with the lack of pace from both and Ibra's lack of movement, there's so much power from Ibra and good off the ball movement and link up from Rooney that they seem to suit playing together. Only thing that worries me is that they seemed to both tire badly today. Hopefully that does improve.

Martial had a rough game. I think he is a bit wasted out wide, but he has shown he can play better than this from there.

Mata did well given he was playing wide again. People are going to assume that Jose rates him now, but I'm confident that will be proven mistaken in time.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Jose playing Herrera and Fellaini together. And they did well enough. It would be great if Jose can make them both defensively sound. I wonder if they are competing for the starting spot beside Pogba.

There's still a touch of the Van Gaal's about the play, especially in the last half hour, but overall we created good chances and limited there's, so that's very good news.

Son Of A Vidic

In terms of preseason prep, Martial is about three games behind most of the lads. So another game or two should sharpen him up nicely.

Liam McPoyle

3 for 3 from Zlatan too.

Sweet.

RobertKK

Bailly was injured all week and only trained yesterday.

He had great match rhythm... :pac:

Pro. F

Whatsisname wrote: »

Find it absolutely bizarre people thought Rooney played well today.

Heavily involved with the majority of the attacking play, linked-up well and got on the end of a few chances. It was a good performance even without the goal imo.

J. Marston

Very comfortable win. Now to watch Arsenal/Liverpool and hope for a hard-hitting, high-scoring encounter.

Pro. F

Oh, also, Valencia deserves a special mention. I've always thought he has some flaws in his defending, but if Jose thinks he can iron them out you would trust him, over any manager, to do that. And then Val's ability to carry the ball forward and his stamina are great.

Adamocovic

Whatsisname wrote: »

Find it absolutely bizarre people thought Rooney played well today.

I find it absolutely bizarre that some people think he was the worst player on the field!

I'm sick of the Rooney debate at this point, I understand the criticism when he plays muck but he seems to get criticized no matter what happens.

Everyone else can enjoy the Rooney debate today but I'm off for a pint and to watch Pool Arsenal, roll on Friday, crucial to get a good start.

Sand

Pro. F wrote: »

Heavily involved with the majority of the attacking play, linked-up well and got on the end of a few chances. It was a good performance even without the goal imo.

Do you think there is any link between Rooney's heavy involvement in the attacking play and that attacking play not being all that great?

Jayop

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh, also, Valencia deserves a special mention. I've always thought he has some flaws in his defending, but if Jose thinks he can iron them out you would trust him, over any manager, to do that. And then Val's ability to carry the ball forward and his stamina are great.

He was terrific for rooneys goal.

deaddonkey15

Adamocovic wrote: »

I thought Rooneys passing was very accurate today, his distribution was good and he was the one of the few who was getting the ball out wide to Valencia stretching the defense.

Also he created a few chances for himself, was very strong for the ball he took down and unlucky that Boruc came out strong and saved it.

Made some very good tackles too and also took the goal beautifully.

I honestly can't see how he would be considered one of our worst performers today.

Too much common sense in this post and a far too accurate assessment of today's game for this thread. In future, just write "f*** off Rooney", sit back, and watch the thanks come in.

Pro. F

Sand wrote: »

Do you think there is any link between Rooney's heavy involvement in the attacking play and that attacking play not being all that great?

For the first game of the season and considering the lack of pace at that end of pitch (Martial is the only one with pace and he's struggling at the moment) I thought our attacking play was fairly good. A decent bunch of chances, even without Mata's gifted goal.

SantryRed

Pro. F wrote: »

For the first game of the season and considering the lack of pace at that end of pitch (Martial is the only one with pace and he's struggling at the moment) I thought our attacking play was fairly good. A decent bunch of chances, even without Mata's gifted goal.

Can you not see how Rooney actively slows down attacks at times? I really don't think he's a 10 at all. He's still got good instincts which is where the goal came from but his overall play is lacking and hurts United at tomes.

Pro. F

If Rooney had misplaced as many simple passes or had as few shots as Ibra today he would be being slaughtered for it right now. But there's not been a single mention of those aspects of Ibra's game today. Shows the quality of analysis coming from Rooney's critics.

Pro. F

SantryRed wrote: »

Can you not see how Rooney actively slows down attacks at times? I really don't think he's a 10 at all. He's still got good instincts which is where the goal came from but his overall play is lacking and hurts United at tomes.

Yep I can see that when it happens. He sometimes has a manky touch. He has some games where it happens too often. But I can also see all the good things he does. And overall, the good far outweighs the bad imo.

Mars Bar

Pro. F wrote: »

If Rooney had misplaced as many simple passes or had as few shots as Ibra today he would be being slaughtered for it right now. But there's not been a single mention of those aspects of Ibra's game today. Shows the quality of analysis coming from Rooney's critics.

There's no need for insulting other posters. Your post was fine without the last line.

deaddonkey15

Pro. F wrote: »

If Rooney had misplaced as many simple passes or had as few shots as Ibra today he would be being slaughtered for it right now. But there's not been a single mention of those aspects of Ibra's game today. Shows the quality of analysis coming from Rooney's critics.

In the first half Ibrahimovich played a weak pass to Fellaini and gave the ball away just outside our own box. Shaw miscontrolled a cross into the box and almost cost us a goal. It's all about Rooney's woeful touches and passes though.

deaddonkey15

Mars Bar wrote: »

There's no need for insulting other posters. Your post was fine without the last line.

Nothing insulting about it. He's right. People hold Rooney to a completely different standard. Over exaggerate all his negatives and mistakes whilst completely ignoring those of other players. When United play poorly it's all Rooney's fault, when they play well it's in spite of Rooney's presence. He simply can't win.

Mars Bar

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Nothing insulting about it. He's right. People hold Rooney to a completely different standard. Over exaggerate all his negatives and mistakes whilst completely ignoring those of other players. When United play poorly it's all Rooney's fault, when they play well it's in spite of Rooney's presence. He simply can't win.

It came across to me like he was saying the intelligence of the fans criticising rooney isn't up to his standard. Could just be me taking it up like that coz I feel pro. F tends to talk from a high horse.

I agree with pro. F otherwise. Rooney and Ibra were about par but rooney is getting the bashing. Nothing great but not atrocious. Rooney certainly wasn't preseason bad.

edgecutter

Pro. F wrote: »

Heavily involved with the majority of the attacking play, linked-up well and got on the end of a few chances. It was a good performance even without the goal imo.

Slows down our play too much, terrible touch leads to him being dispossessed too easily. I thought he was poor for someone who is suppose to be our creative link from midfield.

Whatsisname

Pro. F wrote: »

If Rooney had misplaced as many simple passes or had as few shots as Ibra today he would be being slaughtered for it right now. But there's not been a single mention of those aspects of Ibra's game today. Shows the quality of analysis coming from Rooney's critics.

Adamocovic wrote: »

I find it absolutely bizarre that some people think he was the worst player on the field!

I'm sick of the Rooney debate at this point, I understand the criticism when he plays muck but he seems to get criticized no matter what happens.

Everyone else can enjoy the Rooney debate today but I'm off for a pint and to watch Pool Arsenal, roll on Friday, crucial to get a good start.

Nice dig. Theres a reason why Ibra isn't mentioned as much as Rooney, you know why yourself. A new player, especially of Ibra's reputation, is not gonna be slaughtered for any mistakes yet. He also gets leniency for 3 goals in the last 3 games, pre season or not. Now, if he's performing below average in a month or two, questions will be raised. But he's new to the team, Rooney has been performing poorly for the best part of 2 years yet still remains a mainstay in the team. Thats why Rooney becomes more scrutinized. He's expected to play better than he is. He's expected to actually be able to take a somewhat decent first touch, every player miscontrols it once or twice, Rooney does it more often than not. Rooney's second touch these days is usually a tackle. Imo, Rooney's going to be dropped very quickly by Mourinho if he doesn't get his act together.

I don't necessarily think he was the worst on the pitch as there were a few poor performances today. Martial wasn't great and he's been off the pace for weeks now, but as someone mentioned already, he's a few weeks behind everyone in terms of games and fitness from the Euros.

My 2c.

Billy86

Anthony Martial has now played 85 minutes of competitive football for Man Utd this season.

...only 115 to go to save my manhood.

how.gareth

Billy86 wrote: »

Anthony Martial has now played 85 minutes of competitive football for Man Utd this season.

...only 115 to go to save my manhood.

Huh?

Rossi IRL

Moreno the gift that keeps on giving.

Thankfully Shaw is back for us, a proper left back.

Flint Fredstone

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Moreno the gift that keeps on giving.

Thankfully Shaw is back for us, a proper left back.

I remember at the time a few lads in the Liverpool thread were saying Moreno was easily the better signing :pac:

KombuchaMshroom

Don't want to get overly involved in the tiresome Rooney debate.
He was poor enough today, a lot of sloppy touches, and the dive when played through was infuriating. But at least he made up for it with a decent finish, hopefully it gives him confidence to start upping his performances.

But what i really wanted to just mention is how pathetic sky's analysis on their website is. Rooney got a 7 rating and Fellaini a 6. How you could come out of watching that match thinking Rooney was better than Fellaini is baffling. Lazy "analysis" at its finest.

deaddonkey15

Whatsisname wrote: »

Rooney has been performing poorly for the best part of 2 years yet still remains a mainstay in the team.

Not many United players bar de Gea have performed well over the last 2 years. Rooney hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you and others like to think he has.

Whatsisname wrote: »

He's expected to actually be able to take a somewhat decent first touch, every player miscontrols it once or twice, Rooney does it more often than not. Rooney's second touch these days is usually a tackle.

Quite simply not true.

DM_7

Over the last two years it wouldn't matter how well Rooney was controlling the ball, since United had so little movement around him. A lot of United play going to Rooney was slow to start with, he can't up the pace of the play when nothing is going on around him.

His job is to find his teammates if they are in a good position to receive, it is rare lately for United to have attackers in a good advanced positions, if they are not there he has to slow down play.

Does Rooney regularly make a poor touch if United are putting the opposition under real pressure or is it mainly when he is under pressure with little options around him? I don't think Ronaldo or Tevez had many complaints about him when United were putting teams under real pressure. Valencia and Nani did well off him when they were in good form.

caviardreams

RobertKK wrote: »

Bailly was injured all week and only trained yesterday.

He had great match rhythm... :pac:

Oh God, I had actually forgotten about match rhythm! :pac:

J. Marston

I hope our corners improve. With Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Fellaini, Bailly and Smalling, we've got a pretty huge team. Should be taking advantage of that.

KombuchaMshroom

J. Marston wrote: »

I hope our corners improve. With Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Fellaini, Bailly and Smalling, we've got a pretty huge team. Should be taking advantage of that.

If Blind is on the pitch would love to see him taking the inswinging corners for a lefty.

On the other side, maybe we should give Phil Jones another go but realistically should be and will be Rooney.

deaddonkey15

DM_7 wrote: »

Over the last two years it wouldn't matter how well Rooney was controlling the ball, since United had so little movement around him. A lot of United play going to Rooney was slow to start with, he can't up the pace of the play when nothing is going on around him.

His job is to find his teammates if they are in a good position to receive, it is rare lately for United to have attackers in a good advanced positions, if they are not there he has to slow down play.

Does Rooney regularly make a poor touch if United are putting the opposition under real pressure or is it mainly when he is under pressure with little options around him? I don't think Rooney or Tevez had many complaints about him when United were putting teams under real pressure. Valencia and Nani did well off him when they were in good form.

Indeed. A lot of the time, like today, it gets quite congested in front of the opposition penalty area, especially if they are intent on sitting back. When Rooney finds Martial or Valencia out wide in space in these kind of games he is criticised for playing the "Hollywood ball" and it's used as yet another stick to beat him with.

adox

Mata's dive by the way was fooking embarrassing.

Whatsisname

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Not many United players bar de Gea have performed well over the last 2 years. Rooney hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you and others like to think he has.

And thats what you think and thats where our opinions differ. I'm actually a big Rooney fan, always was but theres a time when a player needs to be gradually phased out. If you think Rooney in no.10 is how United are going to play their best attacking football, then so be it. I don't. I think our main creative outlet should have more creativity than playing a ball out to Valencia half of the time.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Quite simply not true.

In your opinion it's not true, in mine it is.

Rooney lost the fire that made him so terrifying to play against, I can remember on one or two occasions when he seemingly resurrected it, against City last year when he burst past 3/4 in midfield and his run in the FA Cup but other than that, he comes off 2nd best 90% of the time. Gets picked on reputation alone and hopefully Jose will put an end to that.

Mars Bar

adox wrote: »

Mata's dive by the way was fooking embarrassing.

I thought he had done his hamstring and that's why he hit the deck. Saw a replay and it was far more a dive than I thought!

Pro. F

Mars Bar wrote: »

There's no need for insulting other posters. Your post was fine without the last line.

I get where you're coming from. Not sure if I agree that it's that big of a deal in this situation, but yeah, maybe you're right.

StringerBell

The worst thing happened to him that can happen to any fighter, he got domesticated.

Lord TSC

Jose: I think Bailly and Daley, I think they played really well, the midfield players were an unbelievable complement for each other. I think, Fellaini, I had always the feeling that he was… not loved by the general “red” people. They have to love him, because if he plays like he’s playing now, they have to love him because he’s being so important for us. So, everybody is giving good competition and I’m really happy.

deaddonkey15

Whatsisname wrote: »

And thats what you think and thats where our opinions differ. I'm actually a big Rooney fan, always was but theres a time when a player needs to be gradually phased out. If you think Rooney in no.10 is how United are going to play their best attacking football, then so be it. I don't. I think our main creative outlet should have more creativity than playing a ball out to Valencia half of the time.

He has Martial on one side and Valencia on the other. Only Ibrahimovich ahead of him. It is natural that he will send it out wide to Valencia when the only player ahead of him is not very mobile and is more often than not double marked.

Whatsisname wrote: »

In your opinion it's not true, in mine it is.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Do you really believe that Rooney miscontrols the ball more often than he controls it? Or are you just over exaggerating?

Pro. F

Whatsisname wrote: »

Nice dig. Theres a reason why Ibra isn't mentioned as much as Rooney, you know why yourself. A new player, especially of Ibra's reputation, is not gonna be slaughtered for any mistakes yet. He also gets leniency for 3 goals in the last 3 games, pre season or not. Now, if he's performing below average in a month or two, questions will be raised. But he's new to the team, Rooney has been performing poorly for the best part of 2 years yet still remains a mainstay in the team. Thats why Rooney becomes more scrutinized. He's expected to play better than he is. He's expected to actually be able to take a somewhat decent first touch, every player miscontrols it once or twice, Rooney does it more often than not. Rooney's second touch these days is usually a tackle. Imo, Rooney's going to be dropped very quickly by Mourinho if he doesn't get his act together.

I don't necessarily think he was the worst on the pitch as there were a few poor performances today. Martial wasn't great and he's been off the pace for weeks now, but as someone mentioned already, he's a few weeks behind everyone in terms of games and fitness from the Euros.

My 2c.

But the Ibra mistakes don't even get a mention. It's not like people are pointing them out and saying hopefully they'll improve, they just aren't acknowledged. And these are things that supposedly are completely unacceptable for an attacking player when it's Rooney doing them.

Needless to say, I don't agree with your summary of Rooney's game over red tent years.

Giggsy11

Don't have much complaints about the game. Finally it was great to win a game with ease, especially away game.

Bailly looked great, Ibra made very important contribution. Fellaini played really well. It was like in FIFA when you take him to the opponent player and he just wins tackle with ease. He won so many tackles and possession, he looked very good.

caviardreams

Great to see Fell & Blind getting praise when so many had them destined for the door!

adox

caviardreams wrote: »

Great to see Fell & Blind getting praise when so many had them destined for the door!

It is in one way and Blind did play really well but I think we would be fooling ourselves if we thought he was a long term solution for CB.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

If Rooney had misplaced as many simple passes or had as few shots as Ibra today he would be being slaughtered for it right now. But there's not been a single mention of those aspects of Ibra's game today. Shows the quality of analysis coming from Rooney's critics.

You are wrong in this case but I know you won't accept it.
Rooney again being the focal point of nearly all of our attacks is ultimately going to be scrutinised the most. Ibra again can do **** all in a match and when it matters do something class.
Credit to Rooney for his goal today but for so long he's been lackluster in every department including his finishing. It's not just about today's game
I respect your opinion as you are a quality poster but what annoys me is that you continue to insult people who don't agree with your opinion.

Whatsisname

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He has Martial on one side and Valencia on the other. Only Ibrahimovich ahead of him. It is natural that he will send it out wide to Valencia when the only player ahead of him is not very mobile and is more often than not double marked.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Do you really believe that Rooney miscontrols the ball more often than he controls it? Or are you just over exaggerating?

Yeah, its fine to send it out to Valencia but when thats the majority of his "creative" play, then whats the point? Just rinse and repeat. Defence sees Rooney on it, give him space, he'll play it out the right and we can get organised in the box.

When Rashford, Lingard, Mata and Martial were ahead of him, he still did the same.

What I'm saying is Rooney's first touch is poor and not up to the standard its expected to be at.

Pro. F wrote: »

But the Ibra mistakes don't even get a mention. It's not like people are pointing them out and saying hopefully they'll improve, they just aren't acknowledged. And these are things that supposedly are completely unacceptable for an attacking player when it's Rooney doing them.

Needless to say, I don't agree with your summary of Rooney's game over red tent years.

Because he just signed for us man. Thats why he's not being criticized nor is he supposed to be our main creative outlet. He's there to finish. If everyone was up in arms here about Ibra's performance so far, we'd all be acting like spoilt little ****s. I'm not saying Ibra should get away with it if he begins to perform underpar. No player should.

I'm saying, IMO, Rooney has been poor for a while now, if Ibra, or any other player for example, is playing poor consistently, they'll be criticized for it in due time. To alot of us, Rooney has been poor for 2 years or so. To others, like yourself, maybe not. But hey, we'll agree to disagree.

Don't get me wrong, as I said, I've always been a Rooney fan, and I'd love nothing more than him to prove me entirely wrong here but ultimately, I don't think he will.

deaddonkey15

Whatsisname wrote: »

Yeah, its fine to send it out to Valencia but when thats the majority of his "creative" play, then whats the point? Just rinse and repeat. Defence sees Rooney on it, give him space, he'll play it out the right and we can get organised in the box.

When Rashford, Lingard, Mata and Martial were ahead of him, he still did the same.

What I'm saying is Rooney's first touch is poor and not up to the standard its expected to be at.

What do you recommend Rooney do with the ball then in terms of "creative" play? Maybe the players around him need to improve their movement?