Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Trigger

Its only been 3 hours since this was tweeted so i doubt Zerks has posted it yet

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/765548696368877568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Pro. F

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The 50 sideways passes must have swung it for him. Perfect example of why stats alone is not a good measure of anything.
Ibrahimovic shouldn't be there either. Apart from their goals, neither did much else.

Stats can be useful for shedding light on lots of questions. Of course they can fall short when looking at more naunced questions. But you made some ridiculous, hyperbolic claims (like that Rooney looked like a pub player for most of the game), such nonsense is easily disproveable with stats.

Jayop

Nalz wrote: »

Bit harsh. He set up Rooney for his 1 on 1 and that layoff to Rooney when he went down in the box shortly afterwards.

He took a decent freekick too in that half before he scored.

He destroyed Harry Arter down the wing late on too but his pass wasn't great once he got into the area.

Depends what you mean by "much".

I've already asked but no one answered. If he thinks Ibra and Rooney didn't deserve to be there then who should have taken their places for this week's team of the week?

Aguero for his penalty goal?
Costa for his winner after he should have been sent off?
Hazard for his penalty?
Mahrez for his Penalty in a losing performance?


The only ones who could have a point to make would imo be Shakiri for the great freekick he scored or Llaannnannanna for Liverpool. Not sure if either of their all round performances we re up to those of Rooney and Ibra though.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Stats can be useful for shedding light on lots of questions. Of course they can fall short when looking at more naunced questions. But you made some ridiculous, hyperbolic claims (like that Rooney looked like a pub player for most of the game), such nonsense is easily disproveable with stats.

Is that stat pints drank the night before the game?

bucketybuck

MagicIRL wrote: »

To be fair, what more than scoring goals do you want your striker to do? :P

Ask yourself this, why did United sell goal scoring machine Ruud Van Nistlerooy?

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ask yourself this, why did United sell goal scoring machine Ruud Van Nistlerooy?

Fell out with Ronaldo

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

Fell out with Ronaldo

Bingo

Flint Fredstone

Pro. F wrote: »

Stats can be useful for shedding light on lots of questions. Of course they can fall short when looking at more naunced questions. But you made some ridiculous, hyperbolic claims (like that Rooney looked like a pub player for most of the game), such nonsense is easily disproveable with stats.

Yeah, hyperbole is a thing you will see on the Internet a lot. Don't take everything so literal.
Pub player is a common term for someone after playing poorly.

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Yeah, hyperbole is a thing you will see on the Internet a lot. Don't take everything so literal.

I've asked a few times. Who would you have put in the team of the week over Rooney and Ibra in the 9 and 10 roles?

Mitch Connor

Coutinho for Rooney?

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

I've asked a few times. Who would you have put in the team of the week over Rooney and Ibra in the 9 and 10 roles?

I didn't read back. Costa was good last night. I didn't see much outside of the Leicester game, Liv v Arse and the Chelsea game.
I'm just thinking someone had to better, unless it was a really bad weekend for individual performances because neither of them were standouts.

It's moot anyway, it's a team of the week by stats. I'm not aware of what stats.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Coutinho for Rooney?

Easily although Coutinho is there on the left. Coutinho and Hazard would take up those 2 spots anyway for me.

Jayop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Coutinho for Rooney?

Already in there.

deaddonkey15

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Yeah, hyperbole is a thing you will see on the Internet a lot. Don't take everything so literal.
Pub player is a common term for someone after playing poorly.

You'll see stats on the internet too. They are a bit more accurate and insightful than childish insults and over exaggerations.

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

You'll see stats on the internet too. They are a bit more accurate and insightful than childish insults and over exaggerations.

I don't care.

Nalz

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Yeah, hyperbole is a thing you will see on the Internet a lot. Don't take everything so literal.
Pub player is a common term for someone after playing poorly.

Eh anyone that wants to discuss things in a reasonable manner would use a better term to be fair, and would call a pub player someone who plays very very badly consistently.

Flint Fredstone

Nalz wrote: »

Eh anyone that wants to discuss things in a reasonable manner would use a better term to be fair, and would call a pub player someone who plays very very badly consistently.

Yup.

I don't actually think he is the standard of the stereotypical beer bellied 40 year old pub player.
It's the hyperbolic phrase I chose to describe him. In other news, Cantona isn't an actual King, can you believe it?

Adamocovic

I never understand why so many people are against the use of stats when it comes to footballing debates. I constantly see the argument "stats don't tell the whole story" or paint the picture what have you, something no one ever seems to claim anyway. What they do offer is something factual to back up your opinion.

I prefer people bringing up stats to back up their points rather than just taking a stance of that is what I see so that is how it is. Now I agree you shouldn't rely too much on stats but to completely dismiss them just because it doesn't suit ones stance is even worse in my eyes.



Upcoming Pogba stat, in his four seasons at Juventus he has scored 34 goals and made approximately 28 assists. Impressive stuff. Now Pogba has spent his entire career playing either as a MC or DMC. Yes he's played as part of a midfield 3 where he was the further of the three midfield players but he has never played this AMC role or "Number 10" further up the pitch and with only one striker in front that is part of our formation now.

So while he did sport the number 10 jersey he has very little if any experience playing the current role which is further forward in our formation and includes a lone striker to support, which many seem to be saying is his best position. Pogba has been very impressive as part of a midfield three either on the left of the further two midfielders or furthest of a midfield triangle while Juventus used the 5-3-2 and 4-3-3 formations, but while we are with the 4-2-3-1 formation I completely agree with Mourinhos plans of using him as box-to-box midfielder.

Adamocovic

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It's the hyperbolic phrase I chose to describe him. In other news, Cantona isn't an actual King, can you believe it?

Treason!!

Flint Fredstone

Adamocovic wrote: »

Treason!!

Clearly Photoshopped.

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

Fell out with Ronaldo

I know you're being facetious, but the real answer isn't that they fell out, its that Van Nistlerooy didn't suit the direction that having a player like Ronaldo allowed the club to go. Ruud was still scoring buckets of goals for us but he was limiting the attack in other ways and so the correct decision was made to move him on.

Rooney might well still score goals for us from no.10, but is his style of play going to get the best from Martial, Rashford, Depay, Pogba and the other top young players hopefully coming to the club? Is dropping deep to get the ball and spread it wide really what we need? I don't think so.

Rooney is still a top striker, but we can do better than him creatively.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know you're being facetious, but the real answer isn't that they fell out, its that Van Nistlerooy didn't suit the direction that having a player like Ronaldo allowed the club to go. Ruud was still scoring buckets of goals for us but he was limiting the attack in other ways and so the correct decision was made to move him on.

Rooney might well still score goals for us from no.10, but is his style of play going to get the best from Martial, Rashford, Depay, Pogba and the other top young players hopefully coming to the club? Is dropping deep to get the ball and spread it wide really what we need? I don't think so.

Rooney is still a top striker, but we can do better than him creatively.

Bit more than that though for aul Ruud leaving us. He wanted to leave after souring relationships at the club. Didn't he get in a spat with Ferguson and then Ronaldo. The bust-up with Ronaldo was discussed by Rio as well.

“They had a couple of arguments. Ruud Van Nistelrooy kicked him one time and after that I kicked Ruud just to protect Ronnie a little bit and Ruud swung a punch at me and he missed.”

I don't think it was mainly a decision to move him on because he "was limiting attack" as you said, he was our top scorer in a season which was quite good except for our European exploits.

I think it relied heavily on his behavior becoming worse and worse to a point where he wanted out and Fergie was glad to move him on.

TheDoc

Calling Rooney a pub player is actually offensive. I'd be disgusted with myself having a first touch like that.....

TheDoc

Also reading City had to return 2500 of their 3000 allocation for their match tonight....

Massive club

Adamocovic

TheDoc wrote: »

Also reading City had to return 2500 of their 3000 allocation for their match tonight....

Massive club

I saw that online, some Romanian journalist saying it, he seems to contribute to BBC and the Guardian.

If it is true that is shocking, might flick over and see what the crowd numbers are looking like :P

DARK-KNIGHT

Lads look at the positives.... pogba ibra Mickie Ryan and vidic 2.0

How can we complain..

Rooney or anyone else doesn't perform put them into the 21s

Cantona's Collars

TheDoc wrote: »

Also reading City had to return 2500 of their 3000 allocation for their match tonight....

Massive club

That flag:pac::pac:

"WE SEE THINGS THEY'LL NEVER SEE" - Yeah,thousands of empty seats.

J. Marston

We're gonna be pretty much unbeatable in Fifa 17...

jayo26

J. Marston wrote: »

We're gonna be pretty much unbeatable in Fifa 17...

First time in a long time we had a decent team.

DM_7

What do we think the no 10 role is actually about at United, say it wasn't Rooney. What is Jose asking of the role?

To me it looks like the RW player is the one with the freedom to move around. Valencia was playing like Maicon up and down the right side to allow the RW player freedom. This week it was Herrera who was tasked with creating from deep positions, himself and Fellaini were playing the passing midfield roles (Xavi and Busquets for example).

The No 10 role appears to be about supporting the striker and providing a passing option for the midfield players depending on the scenario. On the break he needs to be getting close or beyond Ibra. During slower build up it appears to be about passing the ball around, occupying defenders to pull them out of position rather than creatie play. Help the RW and LW player find some pockets of space when they move into new positions. Will be expected to win the ball high up the pitch and disrupt the other teams play.

I don't think the role is asking for the traditional creative 10.

We have watched as that role becomes less prominent in football. Over last 10 years the idea of a Zidane, Kaka or a Bergkamp is going away, its why Ozil is at Arsenal. Its why the Kagawa signing did not work for United.

The top sides have players who are starting wide and moving inside. Its the passing midfielder who is the one dictating how a side plays and the wide player coming inside that is doing the damage. That is why United bought Pogba and Mkhitaryan over an Ozil or James Rodriquez.

We are looking at an Era of football where Modric, Iniesta and Pirlo ended up in midfield (in different roles) but in years past all would have filled the no 10 role.

Rossi IRL

I know there are other pictures above but lol

Big Club

https://twitter.com/bewarmers/status/765624076115308544

jayo26

Infairness lads it's only a qualifier in a fairly crap destination on a Tuesday night.

Adamocovic

jayo26 wrote: »

Infairness lads it's only a qualifier in a fairly crap destination on a Tuesday night.

Bit harsh on Bucharest :pac:

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

Infairness lads it's only a qualifier in a fairly crap destination on a Tuesday night.

What about the local fans of the visiting club.........Sorry wrong side of Manchester.:pac::pac:

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765639002833752064

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765640129256026113

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765641298019770372

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765639002833752064

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765640129256026113

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765641298019770372

That can't be serious

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765645956071165953

#pepisbald :pac:

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Calling Rooney a pub player is actually offensive. I'd be disgusted with myself having a first touch like that.....

first touch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTzc8dhUGg8

bucketybuck

DM_7 wrote: »

The top sides have players who are starting wide and moving inside. Its the passing midfielder who is the one dictating how a side plays and the wide player coming inside that is doing the damage. That is why United bought Pogba and Mkhitaryan over an Ozil or James Rodriquez.

Do you think Rooney is the one to supply these types of wide players? To play a defence splitting pass to Martial breaking in from the left? To play a one two with Rashford on the right? To receive a one two from Herrera coming from deep? To slide Mkhitaryan in through the middle?

Because I don't think he will do any of those things consistently.

jayo26

Adamocovic wrote: »

Bit harsh on Bucharest :pac:

Never been there but ment to be lovely but I couldn't imagine it been an a lease trip for midweek.

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

first touch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTzc8dhUGg8

He wasn't shooting there at all, his touch just let him down.

jayo26

This rooney debate is really putting any fellaini or nani or wellbeck debate on the shade it's great stuff.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

This rooney debate is really putting any fellaini or nani or wellbeck debate on the shade it's great stuff.

id love to have a fellaini debate but he played well sunday so cant!!!

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765642512291749888

https://twitter.com/TrendsManc/status/765642760833622017

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

id love to have a fellaini debate but he played well sunday so cant!!!

And long may that continue

deaddonkey15

bangkok wrote: »

first touch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTzc8dhUGg8

One of my all time favourite goals.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

id love to have a fellaini debate but he played well sunday so cant!!!

We will enjoy the break.

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

id love to have a fellaini debate but he played well sunday so cant!!!

Speaking of Fellaini, along with his brilliant pass completion during the weekend he also had the most tackles out of any player in the game. He registered 6 tackles, double the closest to him. Surprisingly enough Herrera was tied lowest with Zlatan

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FCSteaua/status/765642512291749888

I like this guy, makes great sense

adox

Adamocovic wrote: »

Speaking of Fellaini, along with his brilliant pass completion during the weekend he also had the most tackles out of any player in the game. He registered 6 tackles, double the closest to him. Surprisingly enough Herrera was tied lowest with Zlatan

His discipline was also fantastic. Gave away very very few free kicks but still got stuck in.

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do you think Rooney is the one to supply these types of wide players? To play a defence splitting pass to Martial breaking in from the left? To play a one two with Rashford on the right? To receive a one two from Herrera coming from deep? To slide Mkhitaryan in through the middle?

Because I don't think he will do any of those things consistently.

At times yes, not as consistently as an Ozil would because of the other work required in Jose's system. I don't think the role at United under Jose is about a play maker.

I am basing this on how Jose looks to have set his side up so far and his specific description of Mkhitaryan as his creative player.

I think the role is going to be have other tasks like providing a passing option to the midfielders and full backs, getting in the box and support to Zlatan (getting beyond him) over creativity.

That is why I wanted to talk about the role over the player to see what people thought about the role and who else could fill it.