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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863
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Hahaha that is crazy!!! So savage. I wish our club Twitter was like this. #OilCity is what I'll refer to them from now on
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I know Jose said Rooney would not be a 6 or 8, but the captain was occupying those territories at times during the game on Sunday. He wasn't playing as how a traditional 10 operates, and a lot of his play and movement seem to indicate that he enjoys playing deeper. He dropped to take the ball out of defense ffs! Surely he isn't going against his managers instructions is he? But Jose said 'never a 6 or an 8'.
I agree that he drops very deep at times. I would point out that most 10s do that to some extent, although Rooney can get extreme doing it. More importantly, he's still receiving the ball in the places you expect a number 10 to.
Like look at where he received his passes on Sunday:
If you look at that in terms of passes received in the final third, in front of and inside the box and compare it to most big name 10s (except for the ones on tiki taka teams, who might as well be playing a different sport) then that is not too shabby at all. And this was in a game where Ibra was also playing, who likes to drop back and occupy that 10 role himself, meaning Rooney was spending significant time running past him and doing CF things.0 -
Flint Fredstone wrote: »
Your argument amounts to "yeah but stats"
No amount of heat maps or graphics with arrows pointing backwards and sidewards is going to convince me he's playing well.
Not getting involved into the Rooney thing, because I'm retired, but just going to say something about the above.
Everyone will have an opinion on a player, from what they see watching them, some people see something different to others, but I really do not understand why in arguments people give out about the use of stats.
I much prefer someone using stats or reasoning to back up their opinions, I honestly don't understand when people have a go at others who do so. Stats aren't there to form your entire argument rather they give it legs or reasoning outside of personal opinion.
Now I am not saying you have to use stats, but I just don't understand peoples problems with them being used. In every situation on both sides of the arguments stats can be brought in to give perspective to that persons view. Stats can be your friend.
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Adamocovic wrote: »He wishes he was Djembas standard!
It would be gas if a Djemba Djemba debate broke out.
I still think the most random argument I've had on boards was when someone was arguing tooth and nail that Luke Chadwick was a better footballer than Beckham but he didn't succeed because he didn't have Beckhams looks :pac:
I actually remember that but cannot for the life of me remember who it was! Must have been on the wind up though
"People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."
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StringerBell wrote: »I actually remember that but cannot for the life of me remember who it was! Must have been on the wind up though
Haha I can't either, I couldn't believe my eyes, and I got sucked into it and all!
Still was nice to have a bit of a unique debate rather than the same old ones doing circles. :pac:
EDIT:
Found it hahah, over 2 years old now, was posted by Larry Wildman (whatever happened to him?). Wasn't better but that Beckham was only a decent player who if he had Chadwicks looks wouldn't be as highly regarded :PI'd question whether he'd have won as many individual awards or achieved as much generally had he looked more like Luke Chadwick.
And no, I'm not trolling or taking the p..s.
A good player but not a great player to coin a phrase.
To put it another way, I wouldn't have him anywhere near an all time United greats top 10.
Also what was gas was at that time people were commenting about how the Vermalean deal should be done soon, I forgot we were even linked with him :pac:0 -
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Adamocovic wrote: »
I still think the most random argument I've had on boards was when someone was arguing tooth and nail that Luke Chadwick was a better footballer than Beckham but he didn't succeed because he didn't have Beckhams looks :pac:
Luke still has more EPL medals than Gerrard.
20 Years ago:
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Luke still has more EPL medals than Gerrard.
20 Years ago:
Stop now I'm just rewatching Beckhams goals.
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I agree that he drops very deep at times. I would point out that most 10s do that to some extent, although Rooney can get extreme doing it. More importantly, he's still receiving the ball in the places you expect a number 10 to.
Like look at where he received his passes on Sunday:
If you look at that in terms of passes received in the final third, in front of and inside the box and compare it to most big name 10s (except for the ones on tiki taka teams, who might as well be playing a different sport) then that is not too shabby at all. And this was in a game where Ibra was also playing, who likes to drop back and occupy that 10 role himself, meaning Rooney was spending significant time running past him and doing CF things.
That's the thing for me. For a 10 he's dropping a bit too deep and a bit too often. Is this because of LVG and now Jose's instructions, or just the Rooney we've come to know who likes to go and demand the ball rather than wait for the pass? There is one arrow up there along the backline where I specifically remember him bypassing the CMs to receive the ball and take it out of defense. The passes received further up aren't bad for a #10. I don't think he was bad on Sunday, but I just don't know if he is our ideal #10 for the the present and future, not with the competition there is for attacking spots within the squad, and also a need to develop some of the younger talent.
Even at 10, he seems to be hungry to be this all over the field enforcer, but I don't believe he currently is capable of filling that roll and find myself wondering what exactly is his roll going forward? There is a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' element to his game these days from what I observe, where in the past although he had a good all-round game, he was more a specialist goalscorer. When the regular goals dry up, which they seem to have, when that yard of pace is nullified, when that bit of killer instinct loses its sharpness, as it seems to have done, what then? Or more precisely, what now? The rest of his game that remains, I don't know if he does it as good as others in the squad. i.e. Mata at 10.
I will admit though that his 'Hollywood passes' out to the wings seem to be a bit more effective now that Valencia is looking a threat and/or our attackers have been finally instructed to attack, and not wait for a 100% clear path to form towards the goal like in an LVG team. Wayne has some pass in fairness. There are still uses for him. If he is going to play that bit of a deeper role and try to get about the pitch, maybe he and Pogba will form a bit of a successful partnership in that regard. It's not that it's all bad at the moment, it's just uncertain with him for me.
Interesting, even though Ibra does like to drop back, the way I saw that on Sunday was that he was doing so to fill space which Rooney should have been occupying. Even where Ibra took his goal from, that would be a #10 area he found himself in. Could be just me automatically looking to blame Rooney for abandoning his post rather than credit him for giving Ibra the space he wanted.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Yes what I said was exaggerated to highlight that you are trying to blame 3 other players for Rooneys lack of incisive passing. Anyways as you say first game so I am willing to hold out and see.
You can call it "blaming" if you like, it makes no difference. If you're trying to deny that there was a serious lack of pace and movement up front and that that would seriously inhibit incisive passing then you are wrong.Deleted User wrote: »Id be iinterested to see Matas passing map if you have a link handy.
Here's all of Mata's passes:
And here's the forward ones only:
...incisive.
Source: statszone0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tVnpwp8d4
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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