Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Quandary

brinty wrote: »

Think my monthly mobile data will be all used up on it friday night.

Not sure what provider you're with, but if like me you're with Vodafone you can text MOREDATA to 50226 and they add 1Gb of data for €8. Maybe the other providers have something similar...

Cantona's Collars

Decent piece on how Jose is changing things at the club and banishing the demons of LVG's zombie football.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3746780/Manchester-United-manager-Jose-Mourinho-ripped-Louis-van-Gaal-rulebook-s-axed-deadwood-overhauled-training-methods.html

TheDoc

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

aww thanks.

Why time are you going under the knife?

brinty wrote: »

10 am, scope down the throat no knife this time..

You two need to have a rattle and get over it

Pro. F

stankratz wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll take your word for it which you seem more than good for on these things. I'm going by what I saw as I watched the game. The 'passes received' chart shows a busy player, even my eyes showed a busy player. However, that 'passes received' chart doesn't show what he did with those received passes, whether he converted them to chances, recycled or lost possession, advanced an attack. Is there a chart to show passes completed? Not expecting you to do the dog work Pro F, just it would probably take you 30 seconds to find one where as I'll be gone for 30 minutes looking for one.

"...he was doing so to fill space which Rooney should have been occupying" - I didn't mean that Rooney wasn't occupying the 10 space often, just that he's drifting far deeper from it than I would have imagined a traditional 10 would when he does leave it. This is what I thought was dragging Zlatan further deeper in turn.

As you said, this is the way Rooney has always played 10. It's just, I don't think he's as effective these days and there's potentially others now in the squad who could do it more creatively. Someone a bit more focused on that area of the pitch, with linking the middle with attack and creating something out of almost nothing, rather than coming back to the defense line (when not defending) to receive the ball and try to push-start something from there. Maybe with some coaching from Mourinho and a lesson or two on energy conservation, i.e. not dropping so deep so often, Rooney could still be that 10 for us.

My main concern is that if/when the time comes for Rooney to be dropped/rotated due to performance issues, Jose does it just as easily as he'd do it with any of the other first team players. Thankfully the club are now at a point where there are healthy numbers of players to compete for the attacking positions. While I don't want to see Jose chopping and changing the line-up every match and would like to see him nail down a semi-regular starting 11 soon, I want that 11 to be based on ability and contribution to the team. Rooney, of the last two seasons in general, this team needs more from him.

Jayop has you covered. You can get all these at fourfourtwo/statszone.

Jayop wrote: »

@stankratz

I do agree (and have said as much) that Rooney's passes lacked incisiveness on Sunday. I would put that largely down to the lack of movement ahead of him. And I've also mentioned his energy conservation (or lack of), so I agree with you on that point.

But the reason I showed you the passes receieved chart was to clear up this matter of whether or not Rooney drops too deep and so isn't in the area he needs to be for a number 10. This has been said often before, but as the charts show, it's not true. And on Ibra dropping deep, Rooney ran ahead of him into the box a lot of the time when that happened. So it really just looks like Ibra doing what he has always done.

Cookie_Dough

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

No, and this was asked of me recently by someone else. I just frequently check this thread, just like you and every other poster. Unfortunately, as I said before, the discussion in here usually involves childish over exaggerations and excessive criticism regarding Rooney. I am entitled to say my piece. I won't post about Rooney if I don't see posts about Rooney, do you understand?

I am aware of that and I'm sure when you were dissecting my post that you saw the part where I said everybody is entitled to their opinion and that was fair enough.

Yes of course I understand, I am not an idiot. I was making the observation that the majority of your posts are vehemently in defense of Rooney no matter how little of him was mentioned. Also can you see that your defense of Rooney could be construed as over exaggeration and excessive praise?

Nothing wrong with that, that's how a discussion forum works.

As above I am well aware how a discussion forum works, again, I am not an idiot.

If I see the same nonsense written about him day in day out, then I will respond. You have absolutely no right to tell me how to post here.

I was in now way telling you how or what to post, I was giving an opinion and making an observation (which is how a discussion forum works). From reading your posts it does not appear that you can take on board any of the criticisms that others have (again, this is my opinion)

But posted them anyway. Maybe you should get on to him instead and tell him not to post about Rooney anymore?

I didn't watch the video as I have no interest as reading the Rooney debate is boring to me and I have previously given a reasonable and mild opinion of him. I never told anybody not to talk about Rooney but I have noticed that whenever he is mentioned it spirals into pages of the same debate over and over again.

My post that you quoted contained no reference to Rooney whatsoever.

No you didn't mention Rooney by name but you replied to the video of Rooney's poor play saying to post Mata and Martial so one can deduce from this reply that you think Mata and Martial were either worse or equally as bad as Rooney. (This opinion we already knew)

Anyway that's all I am going to say on this matter as I don't care to discuss Rooney any further. I would like to see him do well for the club. Others can talk about Rooney all they want obviously, I won't be discussing it any further.

Pro. F

TheTownie wrote: »

Pro. F, what score out of 10 would you give Rooney for Sunday?

I'm quite harsh compared to most in the way I use numbers for scoring. Most people call an average performance a 6 or 7. And a 4 would be something awful for them. I call an average performance a 5; above or below average 6 or 4; and so on.

If you don't pay attention to the mitigating circumstances (first game of season; front four that don't compliment each other, so a lack of pace and movement in that area) I would give him a 6 - above average. If you take into consideration the mitigating circumstances then I'd give him a 7 - good.

brinty

TheDoc wrote:

You two need to have a rattle and get over it

Hmmmmm
I'm married and I do believe CookieDough said she's in a relationship....
We just love the love...

Cookie_Dough

TheDoc wrote: »

You two need to have a rattle and get over it

brinty wrote: »

Hmmmmm
I'm married and I do believe CookieDough said she's in a relationship....
We just love the love...

:eek::eek:
Yep, soon to be married too,thanks. It's always good to have some lighthearted positivity in the thread

I will be interested to see how we do tomorrow. Never thought I'd say it but I'm excited to see José prowling the touchline giving his orders
I'd say Pogba will play in place of Ander and Jesse will play in place of Mata if he's fit.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

:eek::eek:
Yep, soon to be married too,thanks. It's always good to have some lighthearted positivity in the thread

I will be interested to see how we do tomorrow. Never thought I'd say it but I'm excited to see José prowling the touchline giving his orders
I'd say Pogba will play in place of Ander and Jesse will play in place of Mata if he's fit.

Is MrDough a United fan? MsMac is a season ticket holder in Anfield.

deaddonkey15

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I am aware of that and I'm sure when you were dissecting my post that you saw the part where I said everybody is entitled to their opinion and that was fair enough.

Yeah, you should have ended your post there.

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Yes of course I understand, I am not an idiot. I was making the observation that the majority of your posts are vehemently in defense of Rooney no matter how little of him was mentioned. Also can you see that your defense of Rooney could be construed as over exaggeration and excessive praise?]

Just because you feel I post a lot about Rooney here (only because people are already posting about Rooney here but you've clearly no issue with them), doesn't mean I over exaggerate or excessively praise him. Please post evidence of over exaggeration on my part.

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I was in now way telling you how or what to post, I was giving an opinion and making an observation (which is how a discussion forum works). From reading your posts it does not appear that you can take on board any of the criticisms that others have (again, this is my opinion)

Reading between the lines of your post it was very clear what you meant. Again, you should get on to a few more people here regarding their Rooney posts. The fact that you take issue with one of the few people defending him speaks volumes of the anti-Rooney agenda in this thread. If anyone deserves to be called out this morning it's the poster who posted the Rooney "highlights" video. Cherry picked, agenda driven stuff, the purpose of which was purely to paint one of the clubs greatest players in a negative light. It was tabloid-esque sh*te. It was posted here purely to ignite a Rooney debate.

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I didn't watch the video as I have no interest as reading the Rooney debate is boring to me and I have previously given a reasonable and mild opinion of him. I never told anybody not to talk about Rooney but I have noticed that whenever he is mentioned it spirals into pages of the same debate over and over again.

Yet it's only me that you take issue with.

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

No you didn't mention Rooney by name but you replied to the video of Rooney's poor play saying to post Mata and Martial so one can deduce from this reply that you think Mata and Martial were either worse or equally as bad as Rooney. (This opinion we already knew)

We already knew the opinion on Rooney's performance too, but you had no problem with someone posting a video which specifically contains only negative aspects of his play 4 days after the match ended. I asked for Mata and Martial "highlights" simply for context and perspective, as another poster here has already mentioned. You'll notice that all my Rooney posts have a element of context, perspective, and reason to them which lends itself to a proper mature debate instead of the usual "F*ck of Rooney" , "pub player", "can't pass 5 yards", "2nd touch a tackle" nonsense.

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Anyway that's all I am going to say on this matter as I don't care to discuss Rooney any further. I would like to see him do well for the club. Others can talk about Rooney all they want obviously, I won't be discussing it any further.

Except for me clearly.

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

Heeeeeere's Jesse

Yeah. He has a really good chance this season imo. I rate him highly, but it could also be falling into place for him. He has the attributes that the front four probably needs (pace, stamina) to go along with his skill, and he fits a profile that Mourinho has shown before he likes (tactically disciplined and athletic).

Cookie_Dough

MrMac84 wrote: »

Is MrDough a United fan? MsMac is a season ticket holder in Anfield.

Yeah, thankfully he is. Your secret is out...you're literally sleeping with the enemy :eek::D I'd say the aftermath of Utd Pool games are great craic in your gaff!

brinty

Cookie_Dough wrote:

Yep, soon to be married too,thanks. It's always good to have some lighthearted positivity in the thread

Exactly
Not a bit wrong with it
Saves us from the constant Rooney/Fellaini (insert any name for like here ) bashing

Congrats on the upcoming nuptials
Think we should all crash the big day 😂

Cantona's Collars

Rooney’s minutes-per-goal average therefore stands at one every 205.9 minutes.

James Wilson’s average is one goal every 140.3 minutes.


Stats rule.;)

Flint Fredstone

Pro. F wrote: »

The reason to look at other players is context. When you have no experience to know what a low-lights video normally looks like, then to assume that that is a bad one, without comparing it to other examples, is foolish.

Rooney played well on Sunday. The fact that the maker of that video included two shots on target from inside the box as evidence that Rooney played badly is quite telling about the poor level of understanding this criticism is based on.

Seriously? This is exactly what I mean when I say stats alone are misleading.
That "shot" that trickled into the keepers arms was pretty pathetic to be honest and you are using it as a plus point because it was on target?

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Seriously? This is exactly what I mean when I say stats alone are misleading.
That "shot" that trickled into the keepers arms was pretty pathetic to be honest and you are using it as a plus point because it was on target?

No he's saying it shouldn't be used as proof he played badly.


Sorry, sorry.....im backing away from this debate slowly.

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

No he's saying it shouldn't be used as proof he played badly.


Sorry, sorry.....im backing away from this debate slowly.

But it was a terrible effort in a good position. You absolutely include it in such a compilation, like you would include a 30 yard shot that went narrowly wide in a compilation of his good bits. It's not "proof", more another in a long list of bad plays.

To me, that shot is typical of today's Wayne Rooney.

Jayop

Meh

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

Meh

No problem. I regret getting sucked back in already.

brinty

agh lads we'd nearly 24 hours of peace and tranquility and someone had to go and get the Rooney thing going again....

right so to try and get things focused on tomorrow night, lets get a few teams thrown out....

I'll go with

Dave
Tony v - Eric - Daley - Lukey
Sideshow bob - Sideshow mel (Herrera)
Mick Ryan targaryan-- Shrek --- Tony Marshall
God (i mean Zlatan)

Zlatan and Micky combine for a goal in the first half..
Pogba to come on after 55 minutes to a huge ovation..
Mata - 75 minutes replaces rooney and sets up a goal for Targaryan...

2-0 win

Nalz

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Seriously? This is exactly what I mean when I say stats alone are misleading.
That "shot" that trickled into the keepers arms was pretty pathetic to be honest and you are using it as a plus point because it was on target?

While I disagreed with you on him being very poor on Sunday, you do have a good point here! Case and point how stats can be misleading and used against peoples view point.

For me Rooney was 6/10. Had some bad touches, some awful... but contributed well to the team and took his goal well.

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

No problem. I regret getting sucked back in already.

I just don't care enough to come up with a better argument than that anymore lol.

Pro. F

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Seriously? This is exactly what I mean when I say stats alone are misleading.
That "shot" that trickled into the keepers arms was pretty pathetic to be honest and you are using it as a plus point because it was on target?

Actually this is exactly the type of thing where stats can inform the discussion to help understand football better. When you realise how wildly subject to variance finishing is and the type of rates at which even the best strikers finish big chances, then you see that a tame shot on target from a good location is not at all a big problem. And, in this case, it is also still a good sign that Rooeny is getting shots off from from very good locations, which indicates good off the ball movement, which is hugely important.

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

But it was a terrible effort in a good position. You absolutely include it in such a compilation, like you would include a 30 yard shot that went narrowly wide in a compilation of his good bits. It's not "proof", more another in a long list of bad plays.

To me, that shot is typical of today's Wayne Rooney.

Players taking shots from 30 yards out is very often a bad sign. Shooting from poor locations (the type of thing that makes highlight videos, even when they don't go in but go close) is often actively harmful to a team's chances of winning.

keane2097

It's obviously a positive to get into a position where you can hit a shot on target from inside the box. This is not controversial.

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

Exactly
Not a bit wrong with it
Saves us from the constant Rooney/Fellaini (insert any name for like here ) bashing

Congrats on the upcoming nuptials
Think we should all crash the big day 😂

We go halves on a set of picture frames brinty.

Adamocovic

Have to say I think it's a bit unfair to point the finger or give out about deaddonkey15 defending Rooney, causing the thread to become overflown with the Rooney debate. I'm not going to get involved in the player debate but it takes at least two to tango. He's not here having a debate with himself.

The thread is for debates, and as much as it might be frustrating topic at this point for many, including myself, you can't really tell people to stop debating it. Of course if someone says something from either side of the argument the other person will respond, and it shouldn't be a case of criticising someone for doing so, at least in my opinion anyway.

Now I agree it doesn't seem like anyone will change their opinions or views on anything at the moment, but the reason it is still going on is not down to one poster. And as much as we'd all love all sides of the argument to just agree to disagree, the thing is I can't see that happening as it will just start again after most matches.

I just hope we play brilliantly on Friday and so spend more time talking about the positives.

Strap yourself in everybody, we're in for a long season :P

Cookie_Dough

jayo26 wrote: »

We go halves on a set of picture frames brinty.

This made me laugh and spit 7up all over my computer! :D

Kerrydude1981

Adamocovic wrote: »

Have to say I think it's a bit unfair to point the finger or give out about deaddonkey15 defending Rooney, causing the thread to become overflown with the Rooney debate. I'm not going to get involved in the player debate but it takes at least two to tango. He's not here having a debate with himself.

The thread is for debates, and as much as it might be frustrating topic at this point for many, including myself, you can't really tell people to stop debating it. Of course if someone says something from either side of the argument the other person will respond, and it shouldn't be a case of criticising someone for doing so, at least in my opinion anyway.

Now I agree it doesn't seem like anyone will change their opinions or views on anything at the moment, but the reason it is still going on is not down to one poster. And as much as we'd all love all sides of the argument to just agree to disagree, the thing is I can't see that happening as it will just start again after most matches.

I just hope we play brilliantly on Friday and so spend more time talking about the positives.

Strap yourself in everybody, we're in for a long season :P

Wouldnt mind giving Southampton a beating,they have won the last seasons at OT.

adox

Is everyone expecting Pogba to start tomorrow night? Id be surprised if he started.

I`d guess that the same team that started against Bournemouth will start with Pogba getting a run in the second half.

Dont see Smalling or Lingard starting either(althoug I would possibly have them both in the team, certainly Smalling).

adox

adox wrote: »

Is everyone expecting Pogba to start tomorrow night? Id be surprised if he started.

I`d guess that the same team that started against Bournemouth will start with Pogba getting a run in the second half.

Dont see Smalling or Lingard starting either(althoug I would possibly have them both in the team, certainly Smalling).

Assume his last competitive game has been the Euros?
And he didn't play any pre-season for Juve I think
Ease him in, I expect a second half appearance also.

Adamocovic

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Wouldnt mind giving Southampton a beating,they have won the last seasons at OT.

With all the media and emotion around this game with Mourinho, Zlatan, Bailly and Mkhitaryan debuts in Old Trafford (not counting Testimonial) and Pogbas return a comprehensive win is something most fans are hoping for.

Southampton are a good side, and I'd be worried of their pace in attack, I hope this isn't me putting the kiss of death on us but I am really expecting us to win this comfortable enough.

A win is a must in my eyes.

Adamocovic

adox wrote: »

Is everyone expecting Pogba to start tomorrow night? Id be surprised if he started.

I`d guess that the same team that started against Bournemouth will start with Pogba getting a run in the second half.

Dont see Smalling or Lingard starting either(althoug I would possibly have them both in the team, certainly Smalling).

Plus bringing him on during the second half of the game would give him the chance to get a huge reception by the United crowd, maybe I'm looking too much into it but it surely would be great for his confidence and mood (not that he would need it I think :pac:) and gives fans something big to cheer for and welcome him back.

But saying that with Jose you just don't know, I expect him to come on second half but wouldnt be surprised to seem in start if Jose thinks he is fit enough.

brinty

jayo26 wrote: »

We go halves on a set of picture frames brinty.

so long as there's pics of us in the frame for our CookieDough, she'd appreciate that jayo...

jayo26

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

This made me laugh and spit 7up all over my computer! :D

Haha went threw it this time last year we had picture frames coming out of our ears. I told the wife not to take them out of box's we be giving them as gifts over the years haha.

Cookie_Dough

jayo26 wrote: »

Haha went threw it this time last year we had picture frames coming out of our ears. I told the wife not to take them out of box's we be giving them as gifts over the years haha.

How pointless! At least you'll have some frames for friends weddings, make sure to label them so you don't re-gift to the same person who bought them first.

Cantona's Collars

Just to distract from the Rooney debate,here is the match thread shadies and mentalmen. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100719612#post100719612

Cantona's Collars

The boardsies from here that are going to the game better make some noise.

https://twitter.com/red_cafe/status/766259051055448068

Mourinho: "Everything starts with the fans. If 2,000 away fans can be more noisy than 70,000 we're in trouble.

RobertKK

Normally I would choose a United press conference at 4pm on MUTV, but will be watching Thomas Barr instead today.

Can't wait to see Pogba playing for us,

deaddonkey15

Adamocovic wrote: »

Have to say I think it's a bit unfair to point the finger or give out about deaddonkey15 defending Rooney, causing the thread to become overflown with the Rooney debate. I'm not going to get involved in the player debate but it takes at least two to tango. He's not here having a debate with himself.

The thread is for debates, and as much as it might be frustrating topic at this point for many, including myself, you can't really tell people to stop debating it. Of course if someone says something from either side of the argument the other person will respond, and it shouldn't be a case of criticising someone for doing so, at least in my opinion anyway.

Now I agree it doesn't seem like anyone will change their opinions or views on anything at the moment, but the reason it is still going on is not down to one poster. And as much as we'd all love all sides of the argument to just agree to disagree, the thing is I can't see that happening as it will just start again after most matches.

I just hope we play brilliantly on Friday and so spend more time talking about the positives.

Strap yourself in everybody, we're in for a long season :P

Thanks for your post. You hit the nail on the head and I appreciate that. It's unfortunate that sensible and reasoned posts such as this aren't more common here.

jayo26

Soo pogba gonna start tomorrow.... woooop

Mitch Connor

jayo26 wrote: »

Soo pogba gonna start tomorrow.... woooop

Wonder if it will be Herrera or Fellaini that will make way. Smart money would say Herrera I suppose.

Cantona's Collars

RobertKK wrote: »

Normally I would choose a United press conference at 4pm on MUTV, but will be watching Thomas Barr instead today.

Can't wait to see Pogba playing for us,

Just for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bka_mpY43QY

Mitch Connor

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Thanks for your post. You hit the nail on the head and I appreciate that. It's unfortunate that sensible and reasoned posts such as this aren't more common here.

This is why people react to you - passive aggressive shots like this.

Flint Fredstone

Pro. F wrote: »

Actually this is exactly the type of thing where stats can inform the discussion to help understand football better. When you realise how wildly subject to variance finishing is and the type of rates at which even the best strikers finish big chances, then you see that a tame shot on target from a good location is not at all a big problem. And, in this case, it is also still a good sign that Rooeny is getting shots off from from very good locations, which indicates good off the ball movement, which is hugely important.



Players taking shots from 30 yards out is very often a bad sign. Shooting from poor locations (the type of thing that makes highlight videos, even when they don't go in but go close) is often actively harmful to a team's chances of winning.

I don't doubt his natural football intelligence when it comes to getting into positions, he's still one of the best in the league at that. It's what he is doing with the ball when he gets it.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Yeah, thankfully he is. Your secret is out...you're literally sleeping with the enemy :eek::D I'd say the aftermath of Utd Pool games are great craic in your gaff!

Killings! We went to 1 game together the 1-1 at Anfield a few years back after the Suarez Evra incident!

hufpc8w3adnk65

jayo26 wrote: »

Haha went threw it this time last year we had picture frames coming out of our ears. I told the wife not to take them out of box's we be giving them as gifts over the years haha.

What cheap ass's still give gifts? It's ok Cookie invite me not the lads I'm a €200 quid cash in a card man

brinty

are picture frames the new crystal....
Ms Brinty was unpacking last night and the amount of crap crystal we got as moving in (to our first house not this one) and wedding presents was crazy...

why can't people just stick €200 in a card!!!

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wonder if it will be Herrera or Fellaini that will make way. Smart money would say Herrera I suppose.

Didn't get to see presser but seemingly he said they won't change teem around too much for one player he said carrick started in shield and Herrera started last weekend and they only made small changes.

I'd be inclined to think it will be that position he changes again.

jayo26

MrMac84 wrote: »

What cheap ass's still give gifts? It's ok Cookie invite me not the lads I'm a €200 quid cash in a card man

Ahh stop mac they are always members of family that still believe people need picture frames. Worst one we got were 25 euro worth of frames from home store and more and the receipt was in the bag haha.

ElChe32

If it's not Rooney it's wedding presents...I wonder what Wayne got for his wedding.