Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Headshot

Ya SSN have the breaking news bar out in force for Higuain

Hopefully that means the flood gate has opened for Pogba

bangkok

Surely pogba agent can take juve to court then over breach of contract?

54and56

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't see the issue with him - it is Juve that are the problem.

When they brought Pogba from United they agreed a 25% of the future fee with Riola. The issue is, quite simply, is Juve don't want to pay the fee he would be due from the deal. They want 100% of the transfer fee. They want United to pay the full 25% Riola would be due, instead of them. Juve are trying to back out of agreements they have made, they are the ones that should be getting criticised.

Exactly. If Juve are saying they are happy to sell if they receive a net €100m (or whatever) and Raiola is entitled to 25% of any deal Utd are going to have to pony up €33m to him or Juve are going to have to reduce their price.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

because, according to the reports, United want to get the deal done and are trying to reach a compromise agreement.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the point i was making, so I don't know why you asked the question in such an incredulous fashion.

Sorry didn't mean to sound snotty, just wondering

Headshot

So its roughly 90m euro for Higuain.

That's for a 29yr, who has a habit of hold and cold spells and not doing it in the big games

wow

54and56

bangkok wrote: »

Surely pogba agent can take juve to court then over breach of contract?

Juve probably cannot effect a transfer without Raiola's consent as he has an economic interest in Pogba and could easily get an injunction to prevent the deal if they tried to exclude him.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Surely pogba agent can take juve to court then over breach of contract?

Bit hard if they haven't accepted a bid. That's why the negotiations are ongoing

jayo26

Headshot wrote: »

So its roughly 90m euro for Higuain.

That's for a 29yr, who has a habit of hold and cold spells and not doing it in the big games

wow

And it's only 4 year contract too I'd be hoping pogba if he does join would be on at least 5 years.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Higuain is done deal

75 million pound for 29 year old.

Hilarious amount of money. Even for a 28 year old - which is his actual age

secman

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why would the player pay the agents fee? The player doesn't receive any of the transfer fee and if Juve agree to sell for €100m (or whatever) net of the agents fee Utd either have to pony up the fee or forget about the deal. Simples

Simples....it is f....ck off agent with your ridiculous 20 million commission fee

Headshot

Deleted User wrote: »

Hilarious amount of money. Even for a 28 year old - which is his actual age

Im not sure where I got the 29 from.

He's 29 in December so im close enough lol

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hilarious amount of money. Even for a 28 year old - which is his actual age

My bad he is 29 in December massive difference alright.

Fourth best attacker in Argentina?

jayo26

secman wrote: »

Simples....it is f....ck off agent with your ridiculous 20 million commission fee

It's not a commission it's a percentage of sale which is same as owning quater of a player.

Agents get bloody 75 or 100 percent of Portuguese players and Brazilians all the time.

I'd hold juventus fully responsible if they negotiate a price and then refused to pay the agents slice.

stesaurus

Why is anyone struggling with this? Juventus don't have to accept a bid but if they do, according to reports, they'll need to payout 20% to Raiola. If they feel that 100m less 20% owed to Raiola is not enough then that's their decision. If United factor in that 20% and increase the transfer fee to offset that so that Juventus get the amount they want then they'll accept it.
It's not United bunging agents or Raiola being a dick. They'll pay a transfer fee and Juventus will fulfill their obligations to Raiola from that.

secman

He's not worth 120 million, the" all in " levies , tariff included fee for United to pay to get him. Maybe if we didn't have a fcked up corrupt World Football body we could expect these kind of deals to be properly policed and keep money in the game as opposed to lining agents deep pockets.

Trigger

AS caught spouting bull**** again :pac:

https://twitter.com/diarioas/status/757938765075742720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

New chapter in the saga Pogba . The meeting between Raiola and the player on Palm Island, Miami , made an unexpected news for the interests of Manchester United. The number of transfer from French club Mourinho will be around 120-125 million euros. From England and Italy completed the signing take for a few days now , but the player's representative commission (25 million euros) has stopped for the moment Pogba 's arrival at United. The Italian doctor Italo Linfante , the Miami Cardic and Vascular Institute and consultation at Jackson Memorial Hospital, would be responsible for carrying out medical reconocimietno to fubolista in Miami, but Raiola has canceled

https://twitter.com/forevruntd/status/757952569687871488?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/italolinfante/status/757952207434153984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

My bad he is 29 in December massive difference alright.

Fourth best attacker in Argentina?

There is not a need to reply like I pissed on your oatmeal.

54and56

secman wrote: »

Simples....it is f....ck off agent with your ridiculous 20 million commission fee

Then no deal for anyone. If Raiola has a binding contract with Juve giving him 25% of any Pogba transfer it'll have to be honoured. Either Juve pay it out of their €100m or it gets added on top and Utd end up paying it. One way or another no deal will happen until Raiola's contract is honoured or some compromise is agreed.

54and56

secman wrote: »

Maybe if we didn't have a fcked up corrupt World Football body we could expect these kind of deals to be properly policed.

How exactly would you propose "policing" free enterprise? The fact we all know the terms of his fee is a degree of transparency rarely seen in private commercial transactions which this is by the way. Do actors agents have to disclose the terms of their contracts? Do the agents of musicians? Why should contracts between privately owned football clubs, their employees (players) and facilitating agents have to be made public or policed any differently from other employer/employee relationships?

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is not a need to reply like I pissed on your oatmeal.

No need for you to read it like you pissed on my oatmeal then.

I wasn't been in anyway pissy on oatmeal with you at all.... ypy pointed out that he was not 29 he is 28 and I recognised that you are right .

Then I also pointed out that what make his price even more shocking he isn't even in the top 3 attackers in Argentina let alone the world.

All good Yeh?

secman

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Then no deal for anyone. If Raiola has a binding contract with Juve giving him 25% of any Pogba transfer it'll have to be honoured. Either Juve pay it out of their €100m or it gets added on top and Utd end up paying it. One way or another no deal will happen until Raiola's contract is honoured or some compromise is agreed.

Juve ,getting Pogba on a free obviously thought nothing about signing a contract including a 20% fee on his future sale. But now it's haunting them somewhat.... I know they don't have to sell.. but a reluctant bride on your hands is hardly ideal either. Juve will have to compromise on the fee being sought for him. After all they are getting a significant fee for a player signed for nought.

secman

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

How exactly would you propose "policing" free enterprise? The fact we all know the terms of his fee is a degree of transparency rarely seen in private commercial transactions which this is by the way. Do actors agents have to disclose the terms of their contracts? Do the agents of musicians? Why should contracts between privately owned football clubs, their employees (players) and facilitating agents have to be made public or policed any differently from other employer/employee relationships?

I'm in a bad mood today, just ignore me not really making much sense today.

The Talking Bread

Is the "did someone sh1t/p1ss in ones chosen meal" the cool insult on this thread! Everytime someone disagrees or feels someone is getting over enthusiastic on a subject we seem to see it being thrown about!

The Talking Bread

Is the "did someone sh1t/p1ss in ones chosen meal" the cool insult on this thread! Everytime someone disagrees or feels someone is getting over enthusiastic on a subject we seem to see it being thrown about!

Kobe248

jayo26 wrote: »

No need for you to read it like you pissed on my oatmeal then.

I wasn't been in anyway pissy on oatmeal with you at all.... ypy pointed out that he was not 29 he is 28 and I recognised that you are right .

Then I also pointed out that what make his price even more shocking he isn't even in the top 3 attackers in Argentina let alone the world.

All good Yeh?

How is he not top 3 in Argentina

Hes there main striker ahead of Kun

Who are theh other 2 ahead of him excluding Messi

billyhead

It comes to a point were Utd should not become a club that other clubs start taking the piss. With Juventus unwilling to honour their agreement to pay Pogbas Agent Ed Woodward should say €120 mil is the final offer and walk away.I am sick of our club being ridden by other clubs when it comes to transfers, not discounting the fact that they got Pogba for free as far as know or a a very small amount anyway.

TheDoc

I'd actually respect our club more if they passed on Pogba and moved on, as opposed to paying an agent fee, that was negotiated BY JUVENTUS.

That they don't want to pay him what was negotiated at the time, is literally their problem. We can move on and go elsewhere and they can keep Pogba. Be interested if that happened to see how the player felt about it all.

If Pogba really and truly wanted to come, and his agent was the stumbling block, he'd be putting him in line, or firing him.

We really don't need another Di Maria

JaMarcusHustle

Where is the whole "Juventus won't pay Raiola" narrative coming from anyway?

As I understand, Juventus are aware that 20% of any fee they get will go to Raiola. So they want United to pay them a transfer fee where 80% of that fee represents what they value Pogba at, so as they get their full valuation. And they won't accept any less than that.

Is that not what the hold up is?

i.e. they value Pogba at €100m, for example. If United pay that, then Juventus actually only receive €80m as Raiola would get €20m. So they want United to pay €125, so that they receive their full €100m as 80%, and Raiola gets €25m as 20%.

Billy86

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why? The guy is employed by his client (Pogba) to maximise his income and is presumably entitled to his 20% commission otherwise there wouldn't be any argument over it. If he did five £20m deals no one would bat an eyelid if collected £20m in commission for them so why should he not be entitled to his 20% on this deal? The more value he can extract the more he gets paid, that's his job and he's clearly pretty good at it.

Whinging about paying the commission is a bit like some idiot going all out to buy himself a new sports car and then whinging about the cost of servicing or new tyres.

I absolutely detest the increased influence and power of agents in the game ("player power" people complain about is really more a case of "agent power" in my opinion), but yeah you're about spot on here. Whatever about who pays it, he is due it all the same.

JaMarcusHustle

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Where is the whole "Juventus won't pay Raiola" narrative coming from anyway?

As I understand, Juventus are aware that 20% of any fee they get will go to Raiola. So they want United to pay them a transfer fee where 80% of that fee represents what they value Pogba at, so as they get their full valuation. And they won't accept any less than that.

Is that not what the hold up is?

This is exactly it. It's not about Utd paying the agent fee. It's about Juve wanting a certain amount for the player that leaves them with what they value him at once the agent fee is paid.

Saying Utd should move on over the agent fee makes no sense. Utd should move on if they deem the asking price too high, that's it.

Billy86

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is not a need to reply like I pissed on your oatmeal.

I'd be checking under the piss to make sure it really was oatmeal!

onemorechance

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Whinging about paying the commission is a bit like some idiot going all out to buy himself a new sports car and then whinging about the cost of servicing or new tyres.

No it's not. It would be like going out to buy a car and then the sales agent saying that he wants 20% on top. Whinging about servicing or tyres would be more equivalent to whinging about medical care, paying salary while injured or paying for his boots! 10% is more than enough for the agent. I hope that United tell them both to FO and go and spend that money elsewhere. SAF was right not to bow to their demands before.

Donnielighto

onemorechance wrote: »

No it's not. It would be like going out to buy a car and then the sales agent saying that he wants 20% on top. Whinging about servicing or tyres would be more equivalent to whinging about medical care, paying salary while injured or paying for his boots! 10% is more than enough for the agent. I hope that United tell them both to FO and go and spend that money elsewhere. SAF was right not to bow to their demands before.

You're analogy is definitely further from accuracy. It's not agent fees. It's a percentage of any fee that is due to juve they've already agreed to.

Billy86

onemorechance wrote: »

No it's not. It would be like going out to buy a car and then the sales agent saying that he wants 20% on top. Whinging about servicing or tyres would be more equivalent to whinging about medical care, paying salary while injured or paying for his boots! 10% is more than enough for the agent. I hope that United tell them both to FO and go and spend that money elsewhere. SAF was right not to bow to their demands before.

Not really either, unless you had agreed prior to coming to view the cars that the sales agent would get 20% on top to be paid by the car manufacturer, only for the car manufacturer to turn around and tell you they were not willing to anymore as they did not want that model of car being sold.

There are reports today that Juve want to take home €120m for him. If their asking price is €120m + agent fee, Utd seriously need to back away. That's just an absurd amount of money.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Meeting didn't go well??

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/757988655600402433

Discodog

Juve can just do the deal & pay him his cut. If it's not enough then he will have to sue them.

jimmytwotimes 2013

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Meeting didn't go well??

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/757988655600402433

I get 'page doesn't exist' when I click on this.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Delilah Wrong Sailboat wrote: »

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Meeting didn't go well??

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/757988655600402433

I get 'page doesn't exist' when I click on this.

Ah sh1t, was reporting pogba agent left meeting with juve angry. Di Marzio also reported as saying deal still on but sticking points not resolved (still prob who pays agent fees), so as we were basically

GSPfan

How do you all get outraged by unconfirmed rumours? To make something become a fact in here you just have to link a tweet from an Italian journalist and all of a sudden the pitch forks are out.

Chillax. Mourinho and Ed are a power couple. They wont let us down.

billyhead

Agents are a right bunch of pricks. Ever since the Tevez affair and his agents they are just money hungry parasites.

Adamocovic

Reading back I don't understand why so many people are defending Raoila and seem to be throwing the blame on Juventus. Yes all parties are to blame but no doubt Raoila is a factor.

The man has a reputation for being difficult to work with. He's be known to refuse to talk to people involved with some clubs if he doesn't like them (he admitted in one interview that he wouldn't talk to one coach I believe for 6months because they had a disagreement). He gets in with players befriends them and then looks at moving them on for big money deals when he can, it is his job to get the best for them but I remember when he represented Nedved and he fell out with Lazio he told Nedved he was done with them and that he was going to look to move him on. Now his job is to look after players but he has been known to look for more money even when players themselves are happy with the proposed deal.

He's been involved in many long dragged out sagas and is not shy to be blunt with people.

He is doing his job looking for the most money possible for his clients and looking to move them on to other places where the money is better (hence how he is one of the wealthiest agents out there) but without question a lot of times he can result in transfers being dragged out as much as possible. So I don't see at all how people seem to think he isn't a huge factor in when this deal will be done.

Minderbinder

billyhead wrote: »

Agents are a right bunch of pricks. Ever since the Tevez affair and his agents they are just money hungry parasites.

As opposed to players and clubs who have no interest in money?

If the agent was unnecessary they would not exist. If they were not good value they would not exist. Footballers need agents especially to avoid being taken advantage of by clubs like Manchester United and Juventus, who would pay them peanuts and contractually control them at the first opportunity to do so.

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

Reading back I don't understand why so many people are defending Raoila and seem to be throwing the blame on Juventus. Yes all parties are to blame but no doubt Raoila is a factor.

The man has a reputation for being difficult to work with. He's be known to refuse to talk to people involved with some clubs if he doesn't like them (he admitted in one interview that he wouldn't talk to one coach I believe for 6months because they had a disagreement). He gets in with players befriends them and then looks at moving them on for big money deals when he can, it is his job to get the best for them but I remember when he represented Nedved and he fell out with Lazio he told Nedved he was done with them and that he was going to look to move him on. Now his job is to look after players but he has been known to look for more money even when players themselves are happy with the proposed deal.

He's been involved in many long dragged out sagas and is not shy to be blunt with people.

He is doing his job looking for the most money possible for his clients and looking to move them on to other places where the money is better (hence how he is one of the wealthiest agents out there) but without question a lot of times he can result in transfers being dragged out as much as possible. So I don't see at all how people seem to think he isn't a huge factor in when this deal will be done.

I don't know if any are defending Raoila per se (though I have only been skimming to be honest), but the fact does remain that all three parties agreed to this arrangement when Pogba went to Juve. As bad as agents influence can be and has been on the game, the fact does appear to be that it was agreed upon to begin with.

IamtheWalrus

Of all the midfield transfer sagas we've had over the recent years, if it fails to materialise, Pogba will be the one I'm least sad about. We already have Jose and Zlatan at Old Trafford to make this season exciting already. Pogba would be a bonus, and though in my opinion, a huge leap forward in getting Utd back to being the best in the business*




*I see that I'm contradicting myself a bit

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know if any are defending Raoila per se (though I have only been skimming to be honest), but the fact does remain that all three parties agreed to this arrangement when Pogba went to Juve. As bad as agents influence can be and has been on the game, the fact does appear to be that it was agreed upon to begin with.

Oh yeah they're all aware of the arrangement no doubt but I don't think agent fee or percentage is the only thing that will drag out this deal.

Raoila also stated in an interview before years ago about a time when he requested a client to earn such an amount and eventually when the other club finally agreed he replied with that he changed his mind and that he wanted more. He went on to say this is part of the negotiations. Which he's not wrong. And as I said he looks to get the most available and good at it too, but due to this big money moves will take some time so the deal will obviously drag out.

The Talking Bread

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Of all the midfield transfer sagas we've had over the recent years, if it fails to materialise, Pogba will be the one I'm least sad about. We already have Jose and Zlatan at Old Trafford to make this season exciting already. Pogba would be a bonus, and though in my opinion, a huge leap forward in getting Utd back to being the best in the business*




*I see that I'm contradicting myself a bit

Pogba's acquisition is ten times more important than Zlatan's. Even Miki Ryans acquisition was many times more important than Zlatan. Personally I am keeping my expectations of Zlatan not extremely high.

Adamocovic

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Pogba's acquisition is ten times more important than Zlatan's. Even Miki Ryans acquisition was many times more important than Zlatan. Personally I am keeping my expectations of Zlatan not extremely high.

So you are saying you won't dare to Zlatan?

Blasphemy

GSPfan

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Pogba's acquisition is ten times more important than Zlatan's. Even Miki Ryans acquisition was many times more important than Zlatan. Personally I am keeping my expectations of Zlatan not extremely high.

I don't agree. Not ten times more important. Its different and hard to quantify both but Zlatan up front for United is mental.

The_Kew_Tour

If the price gloating around now is what Juve want, then it's time to move on.

I just hope it's already done.

Tomorrow is the day isn't it