Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

The Talking Bread

GSPfan wrote: »

Can anyone think of an alternative to Pogba that we could get? Please don't say Matuidi. Someone physically imposing and a proper midfielder?

Adamocovic wrote: »

Luke Chadwick

I dont want us turning into Stoke of old with Big rough imposing midfielders. Chadwick out.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Don't be silly, he could settle for 12m. Fantastic mind boggling money for a deal that took less than a few weeks to complete and he probably had very little to do for it as well

Why would he settle when he has a contract.. that's like me employing you to do a job for 400 euro and at the end of the week saying here's 200 for a job well done.. and then you settling for that 200..

Adamocovic

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I dont want us turning into Stoke with Big rough imposing midfielders. Chadwick out.

He had Beckhams talent, just not his looks. :pac:

IamtheWalrus

GSPfan wrote: »

Can anyone think of an alternative to Pogba that we could get? Please don't say Matuidi. Someone physically imposing and a proper midfielder?

Liam McNeilis (Tootsie)

GSPfan

newballsplease wrote: »

Toni kroos ?

Unless Pogba to Madrid happens then I doubt there is any possibility of it happening.

The Talking Bread

Adamocovic wrote: »

He had Beckhams talent, just not his looks. :pac:

or his talent.

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

Didn't Fergie big him up and offer him starts then wouldn't play him? If I was in a job and offered a role then not given it,I would be pissed off too.
Fergie can't get everything right and this proves it.Anyhow can anyone imagine a talent like Pogba hanging around under Moyes and his cluelessness or LVG not allowing him to run with the ball or shoot? Had he not left under Fergie,he most definitely would have left within the last 3 seasons with no hope of getting him back.

He gave him a few tastes of football in the first team and he only did ok. He still needed to develop, he had the skill and all but there was no one better at developing youth than fergie.

Adamocovic

GSPfan wrote: »

Unless Pogba to Madrid happens then I doubt there is any possibility of it happening.

I'm sure if we threw €120mill at them they'd hardly say no

Billy86

secman wrote: »

He was offered a contract, declined to sign it and let his contract run out, Juve snapped him up.

Because he was barely seeing the pitch and knew he would do at other big clubs. Meanwhile, the likes of Cleverley and Anderson were getting more games than him, we were still riding 38 year old Ryan Giggs into the ground, I think Rooney and/or O'Shea were getting played in midfield ahead of him, and the straw that broke the camels back I reckon... bringing Scholes out of retirement when it was the perfect opportunity to give Pogba a run in the first team.

It was a terrible case of mismanagement on Fergie's part. Much as I love the man, he wasn't infallible by any means, especially in terms of squad/transfer management over the last 6-8 years or so of his career.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Why would he settle when he has a contract.. that's like me employing you to do a job for 400 euro and at the end of the week saying here's 200 for a job well done.. and then you settling for that 200..

It's nothing like that.

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

Lads here defending Raiola and his fees are probably the same lads who were pissed off with him for turning pogbas head to juventus and that massive signing on fee. Ironic

I take it you have links to the posts to support this claim?

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

I take it you have links to the posts to support this claim?

He got 2m when pogba signed. I'm sure a quick google and you will find it

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

It's nothing like that.

Of course it is.. it's a contract.. why would a businessman settle for losing out on 8 ****in million euro..

The_Kew_Tour

bangkok wrote: »

How exactly? We offered him a contract he didn't sign it.

If every 17 or 18 year old in reserves demanded a first team start the club would be in some state

Well we brought Scholes out of retirement. That's one that sticks out most. We should have given Pogba a go. He was delivering in the reserves-youths

jayo26

Four pages in 20 minutes and I got excited thinking something had happened but ohhh no its just bangkok online.

#vile

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

How exactly? We offered him a contract he didn't sign it.

If every 17 or 18 year old in reserves demanded a first team start the club would be in some state

The only teenagers people had as high hopes as with Pogba in the 2000s at Man Utd were Ronaldo, Rooney and Rossi. Rossi is a class player and would be extremely highly regarded in my opinion if not for the injuries. The other two are amongst the biggest names in the game over the last 10-15 years. You 'never know' with a teenager, but Pogba was as surefire a bet as you could hope to have.

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well we brought Scholes out of retirement. That's one that sticks out most. We should have given Pogba a go. He was delivering in the reserves-youths

And we won a league title with Scholes in the team controlling games. Pogba wouldn't have done that. Pogba would have gotten his chances the following season

54and56

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17790677

Fergie speaking about pogba in 2012. United never wanted him to leave

That interview proves nothing other than SAF totally misjudged the situation. Saying the club had agreed a deal with his agent was obviously BS. First of all you don't agree anything with an agent, you negotiate with an agent but it's the client (Pogba) you agree with. The sanctimonious arrogance by SAF taking Pogba for granted in that interview is unbelievable.

Secondly, what sort of message dues it send an up and coming MF when you take a 37 year old retired player out of retirement rather than give him a chance even if the 37 year old is Paul Scholars?

Very poor management by SAF which is about to cost the club €120 m.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

And we won a league title with Scholes in the team controlling games. Pogba wouldn't have done that. Pogba would have gotten his chances the following season

Pogba would have broken his leg on the preseason tour.

I like this game.. who's next

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Of course it is.. it's a contract.. why would a businessman settle for losing out on 8 ****in million euro..

So much for looking after his client.......

why would United agree to pay half the fee so???

jimmytwotimes 2013

Third shirt 'leaked' for the umpteenth time. Could have been very nice if not for all the feckin hexagons.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/758046813077147648

Think I've decided on the home shirt as the one to get of the three.

bangkok

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

That interview proves nothing other than SAF totally misjudged the situation. Saying the club had agreed a deal with his agent was obviously BS. First of all you don't agree anything with an agent, you negotiate with an agent but it's the client (Pogba) you agree with. The sanctimonious arrogance by SAF taking Pogba for granted in that interview is unbelievable.

Secondly, what sort of message dues it send an up and coming MF when you take a 37 year old retired player out of retirement rather than give him a chance even if the 37 year old is Paul Scholars?

Very poor management by SAF which is about to cost the club €120 m.

Yea shocking management by Ferguson that year. I can't believe we won a league. Terrible management....

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

And we won a league title with Scholes in the team controlling games. Pogba wouldn't have done that. Pogba would have gotten his chances the following season

Actually Scholes was good but not great in his return, and you have no idea what Pogba might have done in his place. He was a prominent member of that Juventus team that won Serie A by 9 points that very same season.

Likewise by this logic, we should never have given Ronaldo or Rooney extended playing time in their teenage years and should have bought someone more experienced in their places. And if they wanted to leave because of it, we should have let both Ronaldo and Rooney go on a cheap and/or free.

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

The only teenagers people had as high hopes as with Pogba in the 2000s at Man Utd were Ronaldo, Rooney and Rossi. Rossi is a class player and would be extremely highly regarded in my opinion if not for the injuries. The other two are amongst the biggest names in the game over the last 10-15 years. You 'never know' with a teenager, but Pogba was as surefire a bet as you could hope to have.

Ravel Morrison was the best young player in uniteds academy, look how that turned out

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

So much for looking after his client.......

why would United agree to pay half the fee so???

Maybe cause they want Pogba in as quick as they can get him? The money will still be coming to Raiola from Juve.. it Juves asking price that is rising as they have a valuation for Pogba and want to get the full amount for him. They know they will have to pay Raiola 20% as it's in the contract so they are raising the asking price so that it it is enough above their valuation to pay the fees also.

The Talking Bread

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Third shirt 'leaked' for the umpteenth time. Could have been very nice if not for all the feckin hexagons.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/758046813077147648

Think I've decided on the home shirt as the one to get of the three.

Oh that would have been gorgeous without those hexagons. Bottle of tip ex maybe?

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

He got 2m when pogba signed. I'm sure a quick google and you will find it

No, I meant about the "Lads here defending Raiola and his fees are probably the same lads who were pissed off with him..." bit.

Billy86

astradave wrote: »

Of course it is.. it's a contract.. why would a businessman settle for losing out on 8 ****in million euro..

I've heard of it, but I've never got to see bangkok in full flow before now. It really is something to behold! :pac:

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

Because he was barely seeing the pitch and knew he would do at other big clubs. Meanwhile, the likes of Cleverley and Anderson were getting more games than him, we were still riding 38 year old Ryan Giggs into the ground, I think Rooney and/or O'Shea were getting played in midfield ahead of him, and the straw that broke the camels back I reckon... bringing Scholes out of retirement when it was the perfect opportunity to give Pogba a run in the first team.

It was a terrible case of mismanagement on Fergie's part. Much as I love the man, he wasn't infallible by any means, especially in terms of squad/transfer management over the last 6-8 years or so of his career.

It's easy to say now we should have dropped Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Cleverley, or Scholes etc.

But at the time I imagine a lot would have expressed a lot of doubts and questions about Pogba been given a big contract and thrown into the team straight away.

He was only in the senior squad for 2 season. Where we came 1st and 2nd in the league, obviously finding game time was going to be tough for him, who knows how much Fergie was going to offer him, we don't know clearly not enough and so why he left. Juventus on the other hand were willing to give him more game time.

Ferguson made mistakes during his career and sometimes I don't like comments he has made about players etc but I think it's extremely harsh to criticise him too much on the Pogba scenario. There is no gaurantee that had he decided to throw Pogba in 30+ games he would have succeeded. With Juventus he had Marchisio and Pirlo with him to help and teach him. Security he would not have gotten with United.

Also Raoila made it quite clear to Pogba it was time to leave for his career. Which worked out.

Trigger

Billy86 wrote: »

I've heard of it, but I've never got to see bangkok in full flow before now. It really is something to behold! :pac:

Just don't mention the big Fella

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

Yea shocking management by Ferguson that year. I can't believe we won a league. Terrible management....

So what you are saying is, if you win the league then you have had a 100% infallible year on absolutely all fronts without having done a single thing wrong in any way, shape or form, in any aspect of the club from youth players to the senior team or anything else? Just 100% magnificently perfect?

Just to be clear, that is what you are saying?

Cantona's Collars

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Third shirt 'leaked' for the umpteenth time. Could have been very nice if not for all the feckin hexagons.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/758046813077147648

Think I've decided on the home shirt as the one to get of the three.

Picked it up for a mate of mine who isn't great at the whole Far East shopping thing and it is actually a pretty nice shirt in the flesh.Was tempted to keep it.

54and56

bangkok wrote: »

Yea shocking management by Ferguson that year. I can't believe we won a league. Terrible management....

You drinking Singha in Sukhumvit samsib sam?

Van.Bosch

Billy86 wrote: »

astradave wrote: »

Of course it is.. it's a contract.. why would a businessman settle for losing out on 8 ****in million euro..

I've heard of it, but I've never got to see bangkok in full flow before now. It really is something to behold! :pac:

The irony being if we had kept Pogba, we prob never would have bought Fellaini.

Billy86

astradave wrote: »

Just don't mention the big Fella

S... S... Sam?

KH25

bangkok wrote: »

Yea shocking management by Ferguson that year. I can't believe we won a league. Terrible management....

Think you're putting too much focus on that league. Nobody's disputing the title, but bringing scholes back and not giving Pogba his chances was very short sighted and didn't show any forward thinking.

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

Ravel Morrison was the best young player in uniteds academy, look how that turned out

Ravel Morrison had highly noted issues off the field from when he was very, very young. And that's exactly how it turned out.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

Just don't mention the big Fella

Tell Juve to keep Pogba,we have Fellaini.:p

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

Actually Scholes was good but not great in his return, and you have no idea what Pogba might have done in his place. He was a prominent member of that Juventus team that won Serie A by 9 points that very same season.

Likewise by this logic, we should never have given Ronaldo or Rooney extended playing time in their teenage years and should have bought someone more experienced in their places. And if they wanted to leave because of it, we should have let both Ronaldo and Rooney go on a cheap and/or free.

I have said it already but he had Pirlo and Marchisio with him rather than Cleverley or Carrick.

I imagine playing alongside them and learning from them has been a huge benefit to his career and there is no guarantee he would have performed like that with us given to different scenarios.

But this is all just silly stuff, there is no way we could know how Pogba would have done given more chances, it's something we will never know. Moving to Juventus helped his career immensely however.

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

Ravel Morrison had highly noted issues off the field from when he was very, very young. And that's exactly how it turned out.

Also you say only Rossi Rooney and ronaldo were the only teenagers the club had high hopes for?! Rooney was already a superstar when we signed him for massive money and ronaldo was the hottest prospect in Europe

bangkok

KH25 wrote: »

Think you're putting too much focus on that league. Nobody's disputing the title, but bringing scholes back and not giving Pogba his chances was very short sighted and didn't show any forward thinking.

He played 7 games for us, was only ok, wasn't ready for premier league games at that stage.

54and56

bangkok wrote: »

Also you say only Rossi Rooney and ronaldo were the only teenagers the club had high hopes for?! Rooney was already a superstar when we signed him for massive money and ronaldo was the hottest prospect in Europe

Rooney was a "superstar" at 18?

bangkok

So by Jose signing a 34 year old ibrahimovic and giving him martials shirt, is that not stopping his and rashfords development as a striker in the same way fergie "stopped" pogbas development....? Just a thought

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

It's easy to say now we should have dropped Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Cleverley, or Scholes etc.

But at the time I imagine a lot would have expressed a lot of doubts and questions about Pogba been given a big contract and thrown into the team straight away.

He was only in the senior squad for 2 season. Where we came 1st and 2nd in the league, obviously finding game time was going to be tough for him, who knows how much Fergie was going to offer him, we don't know clearly not enough and so why he left. Juventus on the other hand were willing to give him more game time.

Ferguson made mistakes during his career and sometimes I don't like comments he has made about players etc but I think it's extremely harsh to criticise him too much on the Pogba scenario. There is no gaurantee that had he decided to throw Pogba in 30+ games he would have succeeded. With Juventus he had Marchisio and Pirlo with him to help and teach him. Security he would not have gotten with United.

Also Raoila made it quite clear to Pogba it was time to leave for his career. Which worked out.

The thing though is, I don't believe Pogba needed a huge offer - he signed for Juve for something like 20k/wk if I recall.

I didn't say to drop Fletcher or Carrick either, who were both very important players for us. But bringing 37(?) year old Scholes back from retirement rather than using the youth players available, especially when one was extremely highly touted, was extremely short-sighted, especially as our midfield had been criticised for lacking all of the things Pogba brings to the table for years, at that point. Anderson was a well known dud at this stage. Going off memory, but I think we were playing O'Shea and shoehorning Rooney & Park into CM a lot at that point too. Giggs at that stage in his career was only good in certain circumstances, and we were overusing him a little in my opinion (also my opinion at the time).

I don't think we needed to hammer him in for 30+ games either, just giving him a decent run when we got so desperate that we called Scholes back out of retirement (and if I recall, it took a bit of persuading). Pogba instead got less than 200 total minutes across all competitions... so basically two games. If that was Raoila's advise, he was 100% correct.

bangkok

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Rooney was a "superstar" at 18?

He was actually one of the most famous players in England at 16 after that goal v arsenal.

Superstar at 18, absolutely

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

So by Jose signing a 34 year old ibrahimovic and giving him martials shirt, is that not stopping his and rashfords development as a striker in the same way fergie "stopped" pogbas development....? Just a thought

Zlatan is the CF,Martial and Rashford will play either side.You might be better off giving up the argument before things get really silly.

Adamocovic

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Rooney was a "superstar" at 18?

Rooney at 18 had two season of 30+ caps with Everton and was brought in for over €30 million.

He may not have been a superstar, but was one of the hottest prospects in football. It wasn't like we were just giving some young lad who hadn't played in the league yet a chance :P

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

I have said it already but he had Pirlo and Marchisio with him rather than Cleverley or Carrick.

I imagine playing alongside them and learning from them has been a huge benefit to his career and there is no guarantee he would have performed like that with us given to different scenarios.

But this is all just silly stuff, there is no way we could know how Pogba would have done given more chances, it's something we will never know. Moving to Juventus helped his career immensely however.

And despite how poor our midfield was, Ferguson still refused to give him a look in. Carrick was a class midfielder under Ferguson, though - would easily put him above Marchisio (obviously not near Pirlo, mind).

It is true that his development could have been better, worse, or just plain different had he never moved though - chaos theory and all that. Still doesn't justify our letting him leave given the circumstances, though. I don't at all blame him for his decision to leave (or Raoila for his involvement).

jimmytwotimes 2013

zerks wrote: »

Picked it up for a mate of mine who isn't great at the whole Far East shopping thing and it is actually a pretty nice shirt in the flesh.Was tempted to keep it.

Will reserve judgement til I see it for real so. Tried on the home one and it's also nicer in reality than I thought it would be. Falling between M and S which is a pain so might chance the adizero medium, anyone know is there much difference between the two mediums?

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

Zlatan is the CF,Martial and Rashford will play either side.You might be better off giving up the argument before things get really silly.

Lol I posted a team a while ago with rashford wide right and loads here were going mad saying rashford not a winger.