Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning Post #6863

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

Also you say only Rossi Rooney and ronaldo were the only teenagers the club had high hopes for?! Rooney was already a superstar when we signed him for massive money and ronaldo was the hottest prospect in Europe

Now you're beginning to catch on! Because Pogba was also one of the very hottest teen prospects in Europe too.

And we let him leave in favour of a 37 year old who had already retired.

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

The thing though is, I don't believe Pogba needed a huge offer - he signed for Juve for something like 20k/wk if I recall.

I didn't say to drop Fletcher or Carrick either, who were both very important players for us. But bringing 37(?) year old Scholes back from retirement rather than using the youth players available, especially when one was extremely highly touted, was extremely short-sighted, especially as our midfield had been criticised for lacking all of the things Pogba brings to the table for years, at that point. Anderson was a well known dud at this stage. Going off memory, but I think we were playing O'Shea and shoehorning Rooney & Park into CM a lot at that point too. Giggs at that stage in his career was only good in certain circumstances, and we were overusing him a little in my opinion (also my opinion at the time).

I don't think we needed to hammer him in for 30+ games either, just giving him a decent run when we got so desperate that we called Scholes back out of retirement (and if I recall, it took a bit of persuading). Pogba instead got less than 200 total minutes across all competitions... so basically two games. If that was Raoila's advise, he was 100% correct.

I agree money might not have been the big thing but the issue there is what I highlighted in bold. Pogba was at a poing where Raoila felt he needed to be played as much as possible, Juventus were willing to play him consistently as a starter so they decided to leave.

My main point is he felt he deserved and warranted a starting role. We weren't able to provide it and he moved to further his career. That's why I feel it's overly harsh how people say Fergie "let him go" and calling it a big failure on his part, when in all honestly it was a huge gamble or risk he would have had to take that might not have paid off.

Pogba leaving however worked out the best scenario. I can't imagine him being the player he is at all right now if he had of stayed.

Trigger

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

He played 7 games for us, was only ok, wasn't ready for premier league games at that stage.

201 total minutes. We didn't even let him start against Aldershot in the League Cup.

http://www.espnfc.us/player/138860/paul-pogba?season=2011

54and56

bangkok wrote: »

So by Jose signing a 34 year old ibrahimovic and giving him martials shirt, is that not stopping his and rashfords development as a striker in the same way fergie "stopped" pogbas development....? Just a thought

Ha ha, Ibra is good but he's not good enough to keep two players out of the team

Martial is going to get plenty of gametime alongside Ibra playing as an inside left and Rashford will get lot's of sub time when te old man needs to come off after 70 minutes, then 60 minutes and by the end of the season half time

secman

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Rooney was a "superstar" at 18?

Rooney was an absolutely fantastic player when he was 18.... Pogba hadn't even broken into United team at 18. No comparison when both were 18.

54and56

Billy86 wrote: »

Now you're beginning to catch on! Because Pogba was also one of the very hottest teen prospects in Europe too.

And we let him leave in favour of a 37 year old who had already retired.

^^ This. End of.

Cost? €120m

Thanks SAF.

The Talking Bread

astradave wrote: »

You have reached your destination




Sorry for the bumpy ride.

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

Now you're beginning to catch on! Because Pogba was also one of the very hottest teen prospects in Europe too.

And we let him leave in favour of a 37 year old who had already retired.

Ah now, there is a difference. Pogba was a prospect who had only really played in underage football. He only had 7 caps and they were all as subs.

Ronaldo on the other hand had 30+ caps for Sporting including some European Competition experience. Not exactly the same thing.

I don't see why Ronaldo and Rooney are both even being mentioned their careers are completely different to Pogbas.

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

I agree money might not have been the big thing but the issue there is what I highlighted in bold. Pogba was at a poing where Raoila felt he needed to be played as much as possible, Juventus were willing to play him consistently as a starter so they decided to leave.

My main point is he felt he deserved and warranted a starting role. We weren't able to provide it and he moved to further his career. That's why I feel it's overly harsh how people say Fergie "let him go" and calling it a big failure on his part, when in all honestly it was a huge gamble or risk he would have had to take that might not have paid off.

Pogba leaving however worked out the best scenario. I can't imagine him being the player he is at all right now if he had of stayed.

I do get what you mean, but at the time I felt it was a mistake and I still do now. Mind you I was very firmly in the 'give DDG time' crowd when he was struggling early in his career here because I far prefer a huge long term return for a bigger risk, over a smaller short term one for a smaller risk. I think a large part of the decision was that Ferguson know his own time was running out, but when you look at the other midfielders we had at the club at the time - often playing Park, Rooney and O'Shea if I recall in midfield, and eventually calling back Scholes when they got injured - that Pogba (being a teenager) must have got an 'anyone but you' impression off of it and got frustrated.

When Anderson is getting more playing time than you, you can't really feel all that wanted.

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

So by Jose signing a 34 year old ibrahimovic and giving him martials shirt, is that not stopping his and rashfords development as a striker in the same way fergie "stopped" pogbas development....? Just a thought

If Martial is injury free for us next season and only gets 201 total minutes of playing time, then absolutely!

And if that happens, I'll get a sex change and live-stream the operation in the Liverpool superthread.

Trigger

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

^^ This. End of.

Cost? €120m

Thanks SAF.

https://twitter.com/carlolaudisa/status/758072629794377729

Adamocovic

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You have reached your destination




Sorry for the bumpy ride.

I'm afraid I'm siding with him on most of this stuff.

Trigger

Billy86 wrote: »

If Martial is injury free for us next season and only gets 201 total minutes of playing time, then absolutely!

And if that happens, I'll get a sex change and live-stream the operation in the Liverpool superthread.

Quoted for the LOL's just in case..

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

If Martial is injury free for us next season and only gets 201 total minutes of playing time, then absolutely!

And if that happens, I'll get a sex change and live-stream the operation in the Liverpool superthread.

Bookmark it lads

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm siding with him on most of this stuff.

Now there is a blast from the past, Blazin saddles. What. A. Film!

Billy86

Adamocovic wrote: »

Ah now, there is a difference. Pogba was a prospect who had only really played in underage football. He only had 7 caps and they were all as subs.

Ronaldo on the other hand had 30+ caps for Sporting including some European Competition experience. Not exactly the same thing.

I don't see why Ronaldo and Rooney are both even being mentioned their careers are completely different to Pogbas.

I think they came into the conversation because I said Pogba had been our most high potential teenager of the decade along with those two and Rossi (who would be held in much higher regard if not for injuries, and is still a good player).

I had forgotten Morrison, but what got in his way were off the field issues which had been pointed out and a concern since he was very, very young.

When he left for Juve though, Pogba was very much one of the most highly touted teenagers in Europe in terms of his potential, hence why quite a few were upset to see him leave. We let him go, he fulfilled a good chunk of it, and now we're going to have to shatter the world transfer record if we are to get him back.

It was a huge lack of foresight, is really what I'm saying.

Billy86

astradave wrote: »

Quoted for the LOL's just in case..

Ah, cock.

Oh...

Guess who's gonna be glued to the starting XIs in August!?!?! :pac: ......................

GSPfan

If it ends up being €110 million which is £92 million then so be it. In a world where David Luiz is £50 million, Troy Deeney is more than £30 million, and Gonzala Higuain is £76 million or whatever then its money well spent.

Would be lovely to have it all over now so we can enjoy the thread again.

Adamocovic

Billy86 wrote: »

I do get what you mean, but at the time I felt it was a mistake and I still do now. Mind you I was very firmly in the 'give DDG time' crowd when he was struggling early in his career here because I far prefer a huge long term return for a bigger risk, over a smaller short term one for a smaller risk. I think a large part of the decision was that Ferguson know his own time was running out, but when you look at the other midfielders we had at the club at the time - often playing Park, Rooney and O'Shea if I recall in midfield, and eventually calling back Scholes when they got injured - that Pogba (being a teenager) must have got an 'anyone but you' impression off of it and got frustrated.

When Anderson is getting more playing time than you, you can't really feel all that wanted.

I mean just like you said yourself that we werent going to be able to give him 30+ games, that this was a major factor in him staying or going.

Himself and Raoila felt that he needed to be starting week in and week out, something United werent going to give him. Juventus on the other hand (Who Raoila has a history with) were able to offer him a starting role so he let his contract run down so he could go somewhere where he will be playing every week.

We can debate as much as we like about Pogba getting more game time how it would of worked out but there is no telling how he would have done in a completely different setup to that of Juventus and all in all leaving was the best thing for his career.

Trigger

Billy86 wrote: »

Ah, cock.

Oh...

Guess who's gonna be glued to the starting XIs in August!?!?! :pac: ......................

Let's hope Jose starts playing youths

Actually on second thoughts.. maybe not for the craic :pac:

bucketybuck

GSPfan wrote: »

Can anyone think of an alternative to Pogba that we could get?

If we are happy to spunk away over 100 million on one player, would it not be easier to ask who we couldn't get?

Adamocovic

GSPfan wrote: »

If it ends up being €110 million which is £92 million then so be it. In a world where David Luiz is £50 million, Troy Deeney is more than £30 million, and Gonzala Higuain is £76 million or whatever then its money well spent.

Would be lovely to have it all over now so we can enjoy the thread again.

Please God tell me someone didn't pay that for Deeney :eek:

Kobe248

Billy86 wrote: »

And despite how poor our midfield was, Ferguson still refused to give him a look in. Carrick was a class midfielder under Ferguson, though - would easily put him above Marchisio (obviously not near Pirlo, mind).

It is true that his development could have been better, worse, or just plain different had he never moved though - chaos theory and all that. Still doesn't justify our letting him leave given the circumstances, though. I don't at all blame him for his decision to leave (or Raoila for his involvement).

Carrick was never as good as Marchisio and Im a massive fan of his

I agree madness Pogba couldnt get into Uniteds team

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

https://twitter.com/carlolaudisa/status/758072629794377729

If it was madrid they probably wouldnt know how to use Skype.

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

Please God tell me someone didn't pay that for Deeney :eek:

Watford rejected it, thereally was also talk that another bid of £35m was going to go in but I think he released a statement before that happened

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

Now there is a blast from the past, Blazin saddles. What. A. Film!

Something I'm sure (I hope) the whole thread can agree on :pac::pac:

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

If it was madrid they probably wouldnt know how to use Skype.

No wonder they don't want to join in the bidding with all this technology involved

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

Watford rejected it, thereally was also talk that another bid of £35m was going to go in but I think he released a statement before that happened

Who in their right mind was bidding that???

Sure my man Jones should be valued at around £50million now :P

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

Who in their right mind was bidding that???

Sure my man Jones should be valued at around £50million now :P

Leicester were the bidders..

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Lucho_L45/status/758069534385405952

Hococop

Adamocovic wrote: »

Who in their right mind was bidding that???

Sure my man Jones should be valued at around £50million now :P

Chinese club offered £40+ million for ighalo around the same time

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Lucho_L45/status/758069534385405952

Corierre dello Sport saying the same thing.. looks like Wednesday it is..

GSPfan

The Premier League has gone money mad. Crystal Palace are bidding £30 million for Benteke apparently. Watford are turning down £30 million for Deeney. The market is dictated by what the wealthiest clubs are willing to pay and between the 2 Spanish Clubs, PSG, and now 3/4 of the Premier League its gone beyond the established norms of the last 10 years.

GSPfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

If we are happy to spunk away over 100 million on one player, would it not be easier to ask who we couldn't get?

Name a few then. I genuinely can't think of anyone really decent with Pogba like attributes who I'd see wanting to join us.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

Corierre dello Sport saying the same thing.. looks like Wednesday it is..

Which Wednesday?

Anybody put a fiver on him for first scorer in the Community Shield?

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

Which Wednesday?

Anybody put a fiver on him for first scorer in the Community Shield?

Get off the Pogba redcafe thread

GSPfan

You know whats mad... Where has all the Ross Barkley, Harry Kane, John Stones, Deli Ali hype and transfer speculation gone? Its like the World Cup has flat lined those storylines.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

Get off the Pogba redcafe thread

They set a new record with that thread:D

If the deal falls through the site will go into such a meltdown it will burn out their servers.

Trigger

zerks wrote: »

They set a new record with that thread:D

If the deal falls through the site will go into such a meltdown it will burn out their servers.

I've been keeping an eye on it. It's been humorous

Mr.Prodston

- Doesn't read thread for 4 hours.
- Notices at least 140 posts in thread.
- Reads thread
- ??????
- No Profit or Pogba signed

brinty

jayo26 wrote:

Four pages in 20 minutes and I got excited thinking something had happened but ohhh no its just bangkok online.

Think I've six pages to go to catch up
Pogba signs or
#Bangkokout

Trigger

brinty wrote: »

Think I've six pages to go to catch up
Pogba signs or
#Bangkokout

Dont bother.. I'll give you the jist in one post..

*Bangkok was ere*

brinty

zerks wrote:

Tell Juve to keep Pogba,we have Fellaini.

Fellaini has better hair

Cantona's Collars

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

- Doesn't read thread for 4 hours.
- Notices at least 140 posts in thread.
- Reads thread
- ??????
- No Profit or Pogba signed

I'm off to get some kip,hopefully I'll be enjoying my breakfast in the morning with the news Pogba has signed.

brinty

GSPfan wrote:

You know whats mad... Where has all the Ross Barkley, Harry Kane, John Stones, Deli Ali hype and transfer speculation gone? Its like the World Cup has flat lined those storylines.

What world Cup???

brinty

Agh mate that was tiresome

I'm off in the plane again

A few first class seats available

Jayo will be pumping out the tunes

If you're a good kid Mars and cookie might even do the #pogbadance for you

#positivityplane

StringerBell

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Whatever makes you feel better ðŸ˜

Pogba is Raoilas client. Raoila takes instructions from Pogba not the other way round. That's how client agent relationships work. I've no doubt Raoila told Pogba he's get him a better contact with Juve and he did. That's his job. SAF was tight fisted and it's back fired big time. Pogba has since won multiple titles with Juve,, got to a Euro final with France and is now about to become the most expensive player in world history with. .......... wait for it. .......... the club who let him go for nothing paying the world record fee.

You couldn't make it up 😂

Where are you getting that he was given a better contract financially at Juve?

All reports at the time, and since then to my mind have said the opposite. That Juve offered him less money.

brinty

StringerBell wrote:

Where are you getting that he was given a better contract financially at Juve?

Stringer you know I you as a poster but I believe pogba demanded 40k a week and united offerred 19k and Fergie said to him the money will come in time...

Raiola got onto Juve and they agred the 40k. Deal was done.

I could be wrong as I've not checked facts but that's my recollection of events ..

jimmytwotimes 2013

Hours away according to gaz del, we've been here before!!!

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/758072165816233984