BioShock: The Collection

Pickpocket

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I wouldn't discount any title due to genre, before at least trying them out and making a call then.

I couldn't disagree more.

Genre is the first thing I take note of when I hear of a new game. In fact it even goes beyond genre for me. If a game features loads of 'loot' and pages of stats I'm not interested.

There are genres and game systems that I simply don't like. I'm not gonna play every American football game that's released because I've established over time that I'm not interested in that type of game. The same with racing simulations. How much time and money do I have to waste before I can make a judgment call based on my own preferences.

Frankly, I think it's a ludicrous suggestion.

Don't piss all over games or genres that you haven't tried, but do trust your own experience.

Pickpocket

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Some consider Bioshock 2 to have superior game-play to that of the first

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Some might, most don't

Metacritic Bioshock 96%

Metacritic Bioshock 2 88%

That's a very reductive approach to take.

Those scores don't specifically refer to gameplay. They're aggregates of reviews of each entire game. A game-rating is based on a multitude of factors. You can't just pull out two Metacritic scores as evidence of superior gameplay, especially for a series like Bioshock, a series which is arguably more famous for its story, tone and art-direction.

Pickpocket

For the record, I'm not a fan of the series (yet). I only played a couple of hours of the original when it was first released. So I'm not commenting on the gameplay in either regard.

I'm just coming off the back of the two Cane & Rinse podcasts that dealt with the games. They commented on the gameplay, particularly the feel of the weapons, but their reservations about Bioshock 2 were with respect to the story and general world-building. I think you should take analyses like that into consideration before referring to Metacritic. By all means use a review aggregate as evidence of which is the more highly regarded game, but don't extrapolate specific commentary on individuals aspects of each game.

Pickpocket

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I bought Bioshock 2 on release and simply didn't enjoy it, if felt like a retread of the previous game and the antagonist was nowhere near as compelling, nor was the protagonist for that matter.

Finally, I notice that your own comments on Bioshock 2 begin with factors other than gameplay. That was pretty much the same for the Cane & Rinse panel. They felt it wasn't as strong as Bioshock because the story, themes and characters weren't as good or as well-developed.

I wonder how many of those individual Metacritic reviews felt the same way? I just think it's misleading to base too much on review aggregates, as people involved with videogames have a tendency to do.

Just look at something like Dark Souls 2. Again, I haven't played it, but you'll hear people say that the moment-to-moment gameplay felt better than that of Dark Souls, however it had a number of failings elsewhere, hence its aggregate rating.

Incidentally, Dark Souls 3 has a higher Gamrankings aggregate than Dark Souls, and has what I (any many others) believe to be superior moment-to-moment gameplay, yet I suspect most fans of the series think that Dark Souls is the superior game. I began the first game after beating Dark Souls 3 (and indeed Bloodborne) and even I think it's far better, despite being slower and uglier!

Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm laying it on too thick. I'm just very interested in aggregate reviews and what they say about games, about critics and indeed the disparity of criticism amongst grunts like myself. It's very interesting.

Retr0gamer

I felt the writing in Bioshock 2 was is in a way stronger than Bioshock. Ken Levine loves to write about society falling apart and collapsing with evil people just out to help themselves. It's kind of boring and one note and also not very realistic. Bioshock 2 had much better developed characters, even the antagonists had redeeming qualities. However being more complex was to its detriment since I found it near impossible to follow going from audio log to action. Bioshock definitely fitted the format of a game better even if it was a pace for pace remake of System Shock 2. Both those games blow the proverbial load too quickly and kind of die a bit after the big reveal.

Pickpocket

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I felt the writing in Bioshock 2 was is in a way stronger than Bioshock. Ken Levine loves to write about society falling apart and collapsing with evil people just out to help themselves. It's kind of boring and one note and also not very realistic. Bioshock 2 had much better developed characters, even the antagonists had redeeming qualities. However being more complex was to its detriment since I found it near impossible to follow going from audio log to action. Bioshock definitely fitted the format of a game better even if it was a pace for pace remake of System Shock 2. Both those games blow the proverbial load too quickly and kind of die a bit after the big reveal.

How essential are the audio-logs in fleshing out the world? I'll be picking up this collection but I'm dreading those bloody things. They're often a sign of a failure to tell the story properly through gameplay and environment alone.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I felt the writing in Bioshock 2 was is in a way stronger than Bioshock. Ken Levine loves to write about society falling apart and collapsing with evil people just out to help themselves. It's kind of boring and one note and also not very realistic. Bioshock 2 had much better developed characters, even the antagonists had redeeming qualities. However being more complex was to its detriment since I found it near impossible to follow going from audio log to action. Bioshock definitely fitted the format of a game better even if it was a pace for pace remake of System Shock 2. Both those games blow the proverbial load too quickly and kind of die a bit after the big reveal.

So much Lol

Il get around to tackling this post tomorrow as haven't time now

Pickpocket

Pickpocket wrote: »

How essential are the audio-logs in fleshing out the world? I'll be picking up this collection but I'm dreading those bloody things. They're often a sign of a failure to tell the story properly through gameplay and environment alone.

Most certainly not a failure and one of the most intriguing aspects
Dialogue, content and delivery is top class

Beefy78

The audio logs are pretty crucial to understanding the game and the story it is trying to tell, unlike many games which have used something similar.

CiDeRmAn

In truth, I used the aggregate review scores as a quick response to the suggestion that Bioshock 2 was held to be better.
You may see it as a poor way to analyze holistically a game, and you'd be right.

It boils down to a personal like or dislike.
I enjoyed Bioshock.
I didn't enjoy Bioshock 2 as much at all.
I found Bioshock Infinite to be beautiful, a wonderful story, but a vanilla game.

That's kind of it.

All the analysis in the world can determine if a title has objective value, but that counts for nothing if the game doesn't appeal to individuals.

I'll certainly be picking up this collection, particularly as I never indulged in the dlc and I believe that it is pretty excellent.

TerrorFirmer

Bioshock, the first game, is a superior experience to it's sequel. However, the actual gameplay in Bioshock 2 is definitely much better - it's basically the first game refined and is a damn good experience overall in its own right, but it is more of the same at the end of the day and the fact that it's set in the same world hurt its reception somewhat. I still loved it though, it's way better than Bioshock: Infinite and the story is good.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/we-were-all-miserable-inside-bioshock-video-game-franchise-w439921

Pretty open and honest interview with Ken Levine about Bioshock & the Colelction

Also a great article on Minervas Den;

http://kotaku.com/six-years-later-minervas-den-remains-the-best-bioshock-1786626270

Spoilers beware!!

Grahamer666

Have this preordered with The Game Collection and it still hasn't been shipped yet. Unlike them.

Captain Chaos

Grahamer666 wrote: »

Have this preordered with The Game Collection and it still hasn't been shipped yet. Unlike them.

Mine just shipped seconds ago, it is late by their standards alright. My Amazon copy for Xbox shipped yesterday which is very early for them.

bigphil2

Pickpocket wrote: »

How essential are the audio-logs in fleshing out the world? I'll be picking up this collection but I'm dreading those bloody things. They're often a sign of a failure to tell the story properly through gameplay and environment alone.

In the remaster of Bioshock 1,if you collect all the audiologs,i think you get a developer chat on the making of the game.so makes for a good insentive to collect them IMO..

Beefy78

I've decided to leave this a couple of months at least. I'm really keen to play but I've got so many 'new' games to play that I can't justify going back to three games I've played in the last couple of years.

I'm half way through a re-visit to Red Dead Redemption at the moment.

Grahamer666

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Mine just shipped seconds ago, it is late by their standards alright. My Amazon copy for Xbox shipped yesterday which is very early for them.

All good. Just got dispatch email there.

Mine just dispatched there from Game Collection
I have it sent to my Parcel Motel
Anyone experience it delivered next day to Parcel Motel?
Raging if its not here tomorrow

Grahamer666

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Mine just dispatched there from Game Collection
I have it sent to my Parcel Motel
Anyone experience it delivered next day to Parcel Motel?
Raging if its not here tomorrow

Sometimes it is, sometimes not. My last two games sent by TGC to PM didn't arrive on release day.

johnny_ultimate

Bioshock 2 fits into a very unique mould of sequels that I think is pretty much unique to gaming. It's very possible to objectively improve on a game - tidy the mechanics, improve the technology, and generally just fix (or simply adjust) any glaring issues from the previous game. It's why so many game sequels do objectively improve as the series goes along.

However, such games often suffer from a lack of creative vision. There is no doubt Bioshock 2 suffers that (Minerva's Den perhaps excepted, although I still haven't played it all these years later). There's plenty to criticise Ken Levine over, but no doubt whatsoever he's an ideas man - the worlds and the ideas contained within are what makes the Bioshock series what it is, and that responsibility lies with Levine and of course his talented development teams. Bioshock 2 'fixed' a few surface level issues and did at least go out of its way to build its own story - that is to its credit, and it's certainly not a bad game. But it cannot escape the fact that it's a remix and revision of another team's game and world, and therefore it struggles to be more than a worthwhile afterthought or epilogue. For all Infinite's flaws, it's a fresh and ambitious game that is truly a major sequel with an identity all of its own a the same time, and personally I can't help but have more enthusiasm for that then the perfectly fine but mostly unimaginative Bioshock 2.

Beefy78

I get that but for other people 'more of the same' is kinda fine. I really enjoyed Bioshock 2, mainly because I loved the setting and heart of the original game so much,. I wanted to go back into that World.

Infinite felt for stretches like pretty much a different game just with the Bioshock name tagged on.

johnny_ultimate

Don't get me wrong, I did like Bioshock 2 in many respects. Given I haven't played it since release, details are a bit hazy, but there's probably even a case that in terms of storytelling it even marks a successful departure from some of Levine's more ponderous and uneven narrative approach.

Still, Infinite remains the sort of sequel I'd love to see more from. (Largely) Disposing of the crutch of its most iconic world and iconography remains a pretty radical move for a big name sequel. And I think thematically it remains very much a sequel - it flips many of the ideas on their heads (even on the most literal level moving from the sea / objectivism to the sky / a variety of -isms, but as a result it's able to look at ideas proposed in the first game in a completely new light. Again, I remain hazy on the exact details given its dense nature, but I remember being thrilled at how everything came together in its finale - not just for the game itself, but also the series as a whole. For all its problems, it's definitely a brave and IMO very true sequel to its predecessor.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

However, such games often suffer from a lack of creative vision. There is no doubt Bioshock 2 suffers that (Minerva's Den perhaps excepted, although I still haven't played it all these years later).

Minerva's Den isn't all that different from Bioshock 2. It has a very good story but I think the best thing about it is the pacing, at 4-6 hours long it doesn't turn into a trudge like Bioshock 2 did, or Bioschock 1 if I'm honest.

^


For anyone buying in store it's very reasonable priced at 41.99 in Smyths
Argos will probably pop up tomorrow on the website

SeantheMan

From all the videos I've seen it pretty much looks the same except a few texture changes (on PC)

People are also complaining that they still have the crap mouse acceleration in there that can't be removed.

Personally mine crashes on Launch (not even into the main menus, when I click the exe)...Bioshock.exe stopped working....what a load of garbage.

Save your money for something else.

BlitzKrieg

Ouch

I installed the remastered version and gave it a try, it feels like they've either butchered the controls on pc I had to drop sensitivity all the way down to keep control but even then there was a weird disconnect between my character moving sluggishly but the mouse look being incredibly sensitive. It could be that it's aged really badly over the short time and I just have rose tinted feelings. I also had some odd audio issues, but I think that was my end. The aesthetics have aged well, rapture is still gorgeous as is the water and general fidelity, character models not so much


It may also have not been wise for me to play it today as I was also replaying Half Life 2 and while it's big setpieces have become a bit cliche due to everyone and everything imitating it the actual pace and overall feel of the game is still fantastic for its age. Which makes it awkward to be comparing it to bioshock as I'm playing them back to back.

Bioshock in contrast, I remember its opening being much stronger then it was tonight, tonight I was just aware at how rushed the whole section between the plane crash and medical feels, with weird tutorial pop ups like reminding me to save the game and how cluttered the overall screen was (I then remembered in my original play through I turned that annoying arrow off) But it settled once I hit medical as thats really the first area.

I guess when you know its a tutorial the first section loses a lot of its charm. And I guess its no worse then Half Life 2's long opening segment where I spent a fair chunk of it throwing anything not bolted down at the guards and characters until the game got through its set up and gave me my crowbar

SeantheMan

From the top 2 reviews on Steam

Bioshock Retextured. The game is missing critical options such as post processing options, dof settings, FOV slider, use windows mouse, etc. No texture detail options, lighting detail options, such that even with good hardware it's barely 60fps, when it should be 144Hz or higher given how bad the updated textures actually look.

I was very excited to replay Bioshock and a remaster was just what we needed. I got highly disappointed when I noticed that it has the same bugs as the original version.

If they fixed the mouse problems (acceleration, sensitivity doesn't work as it should, you can't move the mouse in menus or hacking...) it would be wonderful.

The general consensus is that it's a very lazy update. Mixed (50/50 Pos/Neg) reviews on STEAM atm.

Shame about the PC release^
Hope to give some feedback on the console release this weekend
Argos retailing at 42.99 for PS4 or X1 version

Captain Chaos

The amount of botched PC releases this year is unreal. What studios are they handing over to to do the PC ports these, must be all newbies in the industry.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The amount of botched PC releases this year is unreal. What studios are they handing over to to do the PC ports these, must be all newbies in the industry.

It's really not acceptable.
Blind Squirrel Games were responsible for this port.
Never really heard of them if I'm honest.