Julylyly Ju lyly July

Special Circumstances

Remember guys, it's July and in RSA land "low sun" is a considerable cause of danger.


http://www.thejournal.ie/drive-safe-july-2855079-Jul2016/
http://www.mayo.ie/news/killer-month/

"Why is July so deadly? Gibbons attributes it to a number of factors:
Increased holiday and tourist traffic
Increased speeds due to fine weather
Glare caused by a low sun
More young drivers on the roads
More seasonal sporting events
We can only hope that this month will buck the trend."

Now, I know our summer isn't great but for "a low sun" to be a factor in accidents in January* and July? Is there a significant number of people who will ONLY drive at sunrise/sunset no matter what time of year it is?
Maybe they are well aware of the fact that the earth is not flat and that it orbits the sun in an elliptical orbit at an angle. Maybe.
Maybe this "low sun" is some kinda Mayo thing - a malicious and treacherous sun, out to trick you no matter what time of year? Should we offer some kind of sacrifice to appease the Sun God? Maybe another blessing of the roads?

* http://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2015/RSA--Gardai-warn-drivers-of-sun-glare-link-to-Road-Deaths1/




Anyway... back from reverso land or the southern hemisphere or whatever - look out for dopes of holidayers outside their driving comfort zone and a load of leaving certs promised the use of the car if they studied hard.

shietpilot

Well, time to declare her off the road so...

grogi

They are really loosing any remaining signs of credibility with nonsense like that...

shietpilot

grogi wrote: »

They are really loosing any remaining signs of credibility with nonsense like that...

Media and sense never go together to be honest. As for the RSA I don't think they are interested in training drivers to be better drivers. It's just a case of "slow down" even if it results in dangerously slow drivers and impatient drivers doing dangerous overtakes :rolleyes:

Special Circumstances

Some people will say I'm making a big deal out of one bullet point, but come on like - this shows some serious lack of cop on, and just rehashing old press releases.

(I did try to get the official press release to see if it was just the Journal's "journalism" at fault here, I had to settle with finding the same rubbish in a different source)

dr.fuzzenstein

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Some people will say I'm making a big deal out of one bullet point, but come on like - this shows some serious lack of cop on, and just rehashing old press releases.

(I did try to get the official press release to see if it was just the Journal's "journalism" at fault here, I had to settle with finding the same rubbish in a different source)

This really is a case of someone in the RSA having to kill 5 minutes before his 2 hour pub lunch. The RSA is a reprehensible dossing shop and pointless vanity gravy train for slackers and cronies. Where do I apply?

Mc Love

Cyclists if you are driving on the Dingle Peninsula (they are taking their own lives, not wearing helmets).

bazz26

What sun would that be then?

ectoraige

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Some people will say I'm making a big deal out of one bullet point, but come on like - this shows some serious lack of cop on, and just rehashing old press releases.

(I did try to get the official press release to see if it was just the Journal's "journalism" at fault here, I had to settle with finding the same rubbish in a different source)

Nope, you're having a knee-jerk reaction to something and don't appear to have engaged your brain.

During summer the sun does, of course, reach a higher point in the sky. However, it also takes longer to rise and set, and so spends more time at a low point above the horizon. Couple that with (hopefully) clearer atmospheric conditions and the sun is indeed more likely to cause glare than in winter. Exactly when varies based on latitude, but I have it in my head that July 4th or so is the peak for Dublin.

These conditions will also manifest at earlier/later times during the day, when driver fatigue is also more prevalent - when multiple risk factors combine, more accidents occur.

Let's ignore all that though, because you know what - fcuk the RSA, all they ever do is tell us what we should do to avoid killing each other, and screw the EU too while we're at it. #RSAxit :mad:

Special Circumstances

ectoraige wrote: »

Nope, you're having a knee-jerk reaction to something and don't appear to have engaged your brain.

During summer the sun does, of course, reach a higher point in the sky. However, it also takes longer to rise and set, and so spends more time at a low point above the horizon.

Nope. It's called science, engage your brain. Sun spends all of its time below 14degrees in early January. Spends about 2 hours at similar altitude at any time any decent amount of people would be driving in July. Try harder, engage your brain.

ectoraige wrote: »

Couple that with (hopefully) clearer atmospheric conditions and the sun is indeed more likely to cause glare than in winter. Exactly when varies based on latitude, but I have it in my head that July 4th or so is the peak for Dublin.

Hopefully better clearer atmospheric conditions, yes that sounds very brain engagingly scientific. Definitely no chance of cold crisp high pressure days in January!

ectoraige wrote: »

These conditions will also manifest at earlier/later times during the day, when driver fatigue is also more prevalent - when multiple risk factors combine, more accidents occur.

Let's ignore all that though, because you know what - fcuk the RSA, all they ever do is tell us what we should do to avoid killing each other, and screw the EU too while we're at it. #RSAxit :mad:

Ah so, it's the driver fatigue and sun are uniquely especially dangerous in July. hmmm.

ectoraige

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nope. It's called science, engage your brain. Sun spends all of its time below 14degrees in early January. Spends about 2 hours at similar altitude at any time any decent amount of people would be driving in July. Try harder, engage your brain.

There is always a period of the day when there is an increased risk caused by the glare of the sun, regardless of the time of year.
There is also always a period of the day when there is an increased risk caused by driver fatigue, regardless of the time of year.

At some times of the year these periods coincide, at other times of the year they don't.

The longest sunset/sunrise periods coincide with the solstices, with some variance based on latitude. While in Ireland this is only leads to a few minutes longer actual sunset, there is also a longer time period preceeding sunset that the sun is can be directly in the driver's vision. Due to an extended twilight and summer breaks, July and August have the most late evening activity, and so there are more people driving into the sunset in these months, then in May and June, with the greatest effect near the beginning of the month of July.

Hopefully better clearer atmospheric conditions, yes that sounds very brain engagingly scientific. Definitely no chance of cold crisp high pressure days in January!

I added the hopefully staring out at today's rain

Ah so, it's the driver fatigue and sun are uniquely especially dangerous in July. hmmm.

July is not the only month where sun glare is a contributory factor, but it is not a static contributory factor, it does vary depending on time of year. October I believe is also a high as the glariest time periods coincide with rush-hour traffic, and likewise with January.

Single risk factors are pretty easy to deal with. It's when they start combining that things become harder.

porsche boy

That statement has a Gay Byrne level of obviousness. Their advertising budget must be huge!

Special Circumstances

ectoraige wrote: »

There is always a period of the day when there is an increased risk caused by the glare of the sun, regardless of the time of year.
There is also always a period of the day when there is an increased risk caused by driver fatigue, regardless of the time of year.

At some times of the year these periods coincide, at other times of the year they don't.

The longest sunset/sunrise periods coincide with the solstices, with some variance based on latitude. While in Ireland this is only leads to a few minutes longer actual sunset, there is also a longer time period preceeding sunset that the sun is can be directly in the driver's vision. Due to an extended twilight and summer breaks, July and August have the most late evening activity, and so there are more people driving into the sunset in these months, then in May and June, with the greatest effect near the beginning of the month of July.

I added the hopefully staring out at today's rain



July is not the only month where sun glare is a contributory factor, but it is not a static contributory factor, it does vary depending on time of year. October I believe is also a high as the glariest time periods coincide with rush-hour traffic, and likewise with January.

Single risk factors are pretty easy to deal with. It's when they start combining that things become harder.

So you're backing away from your initial "spends more time at DAAAANGEROUS altitudes in the summer" assertion. Cool.

Personally I'd be more worried about it spending all of the time that significant numbers of people are driving at those altitudes but hey.... If you want to defend the rigorous scientific methods employed by Noel "blessing of the roads, compulsory insurance and registration plates for cyclists" Gibbons - knock yourself out.

ectoraige

Special Circumstances wrote: »

So you're backing away from your initial "spends more time at DAAAANGEROUS altitudes in the summer" assertion. Cool.

Don't put words in my mouth, that's not what I said.

I do apologise for not being very clear in what I was trying to say though. I was trying to point out that the interval at which the sun is at a very low altitude varies from time of year, but I did say 'than winter', rather than 'than other times of year'. I never defined what a dangerous altitude was, if you go for <30 then yeah, that's pretty much all of winter, if you go for <5 that's a different kettle of fish, it'll peak around solstices, and dip around equinoxes. I guess without a figure for what is a "DAAAAANGEROUS" altitude there's no real point debating it. What I do know is in some accidents glare from the sun is determined to have been a contributory factor, but not in others. July is one of the months where this is more common.

Personally I'd be more worried about it spending all of the time that significant numbers of people are driving at those altitudes but hey.... If you want to defend the rigorous scientific methods employed by Noel "blessing of the roads, compulsory insurance and registration plates for cyclists" Gibbons - knock yourself out.

I'm not defending any methods, I'm offering some theories why sun glare creeps up as a factor during certain months, and not in others. It's not just in Ireland this has been observed either. While I've seen some of these figures, I haven't done analysis of them myself, all I've seen is that sun glare peaks and ebbs at particular times of year, as do others such as alcohol and drugs. Speed is fairly consistent though as are mechanical factors. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter why, for the purposes of the press release, tell people that it is a factor, and maybe remind them to have sunglasses and working sunshades in their car.

As for blessing the roads, hopefully during one of the ceremonies there'll be an unfortunate encounter with an out-of-control 18-wheeler. Put an end to that nonsense.

Special Circumstances

ectoraige wrote: »

What I do know is in some accidents glare from the sun is determined to have been a contributory factor, but not in others. July is one of the months where this is more common.



I'm not defending any methods, I'm offering some theories why sun glare creeps up as a factor during certain months, and not in others. It's not just in Ireland this has been observed either. While I've seen some of these figures, I haven't done analysis of them myself, all I've seen is that sun glare peaks and ebbs at particular times of year

Source please, it sounds like there's buckets of studies that show that more people travel during "a low sun" while tired in July than January. Or that sun is more "glarey" in July than March.