Austrian election to be re-run

oscarBravo

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36681475

Looks like there were irregularities in the election, so it's being run again. Bad news from a moderate perspective, given that nationalist sentiment will be emboldened by the Brexit result.

Palmach

Hopefully the FPO will win this time. Maybe then post Brexit the mandarins in Brussels will come to understand along with their nodding dogs in European capitals that the peoples of Europe are fed up with the diet of pc multicultrualism with which they have been fed for decades.

oscarBravo

Palmach wrote: »

Hopefully the FPO will win this time. Maybe then post Brexit the mandarins in Brussels will come to understand along with their nodding dogs in European capitals that the peoples of Europe are fed up with the diet of pc multicultrualism with which they have been fed for decades.

Yeah, being forced to be civil to people from other cultures is such an onerous burden.

LirW

As an austrian, this is embarrassing and a farce and has nothing to do with democracy in the literal sense. You are voting for a person and not for a party. Hofer is a nut, he is antivaxxer and he advertised an anti chemtrail campaign in the past. I'm not saying that Van Der Bellen is the good guy here but he's definitely less dangerous. The power the FPOE is gaining is worrying because they do literally nothing but insisting on how bad the EU and immigrants are. Beside that there is no real success they could show. Whenever they were in charge of anything major they messed it up BIG time (Hypo for example).
It is sad an ridiculous.

FA Hayek

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yeah, being forced to be civil to people from other cultures is such an onerous burden.

Again conflating what was being said to what you think was being said. Clearly people are unhappy with the EU, they are unhappy with mass migration, they are unhappy with imposed beliefs systems telling people how to live, what to say and how to think. If you do now know this by now even after the Brexit result and the way many countries electorate are voting then I am afraid you are in denial.

As to to the topic on hand, surely this would disqualify Van Der Bellen as it was his side that rigged the vote? Who would have thought it, eh!

riffmongous

LirW wrote: »

As an austrian, this is embarrassing and a farce and has nothing to do with democracy in the literal sense. You are voting for a person and not for a party. Hofer is a nut, he is antivaxxer and he advertised an anti chemtrail campaign in the past. I'm not saying that Van Der Bellen is the good guy here but he's definitely less dangerous. The power the FPOE is gaining is worrying because they do literally nothing but insisting on how bad the EU and immigrants are. Beside that there is no real success they could show. Whenever they were in charge of anything major they messed it up BIG time (Hypo for example).
It is sad an ridiculous.

How quickly people have forgotten the last time they were in government

riffmongous

FA Hayek wrote: »

Again conflating what was being said to what you think was being said. Clearly people are unhappy with the EU, they are unhappy with mass migration, they are unhappy with imposed beliefs systems telling people how to live, what to say and how to think. If you do now know this by now even after the Brexit result and the way many countries electorate are voting then I am afraid you are in denial.

As to to the topic on hand, surely this would disqualify Van Der Bellen as it was his side that rigged the vote? Who would have thought it, eh!

The vote was not rigged, there was no proof of vote manipulation

oscarBravo

FA Hayek wrote: »

Again conflating what was being said to what you think was being said.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that I was responding to a post complaining about "PC multiculturalism".

Clearly people are unhappy with the EU, they are unhappy with mass migration, they are unhappy with imposed beliefs systems telling people how to live, what to say and how to think.

If "people" think that the EU is telling them how to think, then "people" have much bigger problems than they think they do.

If you do now know this by now even after the Brexit result and the way many countries electorate are voting then I am afraid you are in denial.

Oh, I'm well aware that some people are busy blaming all their woes on people who don't look like them or speak the same language as them. There's nothing new or different in that.

What puzzles me is why you seem to feel that xenophobia and distrust of foreigners should automatically be pandered to.

As to to the topic on hand, surely this would disqualify Van Der Bellen as it was his side that rigged the vote?

It was? The Constitutional Court hasn't claimed that. Where are you getting it from?

K-9

FA Hayek wrote: »

Again conflating what was being said to what you think was being said. Clearly people are unhappy with the EU, they are unhappy with mass migration, they are unhappy with imposed beliefs systems telling people how to live, what to say and how to think. If you do now know this by now even after the Brexit result and the way many countries electorate are voting then I am afraid you are in denial.

As to to the topic on hand, surely this would disqualify Van Der Bellen as it was his side that rigged the vote? Who would have thought it, eh!

Why would he be disqualified without any proof he was in anyway behind it?

Bob24

Will be an interesting real life test on whether the Brexit vote modified the balance of power in European politics.

Do anyone get whether they are re-running the whole election or only the second round?

FA Hayek

riffmongous wrote: »

The vote was not rigged, there was no proof of vote manipulation

Er.

The party had challenged the result, saying that postal votes had been illegally and improperly handled.

The supreme court upheld the complaint. I suppose it was an accident that votes were improperly handled.

riffmongous

Bob24 wrote: »

Will be an interesting real life test on whether the Brexit vote modified the balance of power in European politics.

Do anyone get whether they are re-running the whole election or only the second round?

just the run-off

riffmongous

FA Hayek wrote: »

Er.



The supreme court upheld the complaint. I suppose it was an accident that votes were improperly handled.

Ausdrücklich“ halte das Höchstgericht fest, so Holzinger, dass keiner der befragten Zeugen von Manipulationen berichtet habe.

http://orf.at/stories/2347531/2347532/
The court says there was no proof or reports of manipulation from witnesses, only that improper handling allowed for the possibility of it and that is why the vote must be re-run. There is no proof the election was rigged.

Bob24

K-9 wrote: »

Why would he be disqualified without any proof he was in anyway behind it?

Also there is no proof anyone rigged the vote. The reason for the re-run is that some ballots were not processed according to the regulations and that some people who are not supposed to vote have been allowed to do so. I'd say this kind of issue occur for every election but the difference here is that the score was so tight that improperly handled votes could have changed who won the election.

FA Hayek

oscarBravo wrote: »

Oh, I'm well aware that some people are busy blaming all their woes on people who don't look like them or speak the same language as them. There's nothing new or different in that.

Ah right, 17+ million people in the UK who voted for Brexit are all racist and xenophobes so. I guess the world is a lot easier to digest when you form nice boxes to put people into.

Then people wonder why there is so much of a disconnect in society. Smugness and getting on a high horse proclaiming how moral you are and how stupid/racist/idiotic everyone else is, is not a way to win people over. Who would have thought.

riffmongous

Bob24 wrote: »

Also there is no proof anyone rigged the vote. The reason for the re-run is that some ballots were not processed according to the regulations and that some people who are not supposed to vote have been allowed to do so. I'd say this kind of issue occur for every election but the difference here is that the score was so tight that improperly handled votes could have changed who won the election.

Exactly

oscarBravo

FA Hayek wrote: »

Ah right, 17+ million people in the UK who voted for Brexit are all racist and xenophobes so.

FA Hayek wrote: »

Again conflating what was being said to what you think was being said.

The irony is delicious.

Manach

I would be surprised that a court would have ordered such a re-run: this is coming from an Irish perspective where AFAIR the courts had always deferred to the elector vote even where there had been irregular issues, such as state funding when not allowed.

Manach

Manach wrote: »

I would be surprised that a court would have ordered such a re-run: this is coming from an Irish perspective where AFAIR the courts had always deferred to the elector vote even where there had been irregular issues, such as state funding when not allowed.

The Irish courts have declared themselves ready to intervene when there is a small margin and some significant unfairness.

Then again, we have a constitution that vests all earthly power in the People, so we're quite different to most European states, where there is less blind faith in the divine right of the man who wields a pencil.

oscarBravo

Manach wrote: »

I would be surprised that a court would have ordered such a re-run: this is coming from an Irish perspective where AFAIR the courts had always deferred to the elector vote even where there had been irregular issues, such as state funding when not allowed.

I guess the difference is that the Irish courts are deferring to correctly-counted, albeit arguably misinformed, votes; whereas the Austrian court has decided that the votes were incorrectly counted and as such not safely indicative of the will of the people.

511

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yeah, being forced to be civil to people from other cultures is such an onerous burden.

So covering up child-grooming gangs in the UK, mass sex assaults in Cologne and the Gardai refusing to deal with Roma gypsy muggers on Dame Lane is all in the name of civility?

That's what political correctness has brought to Europe. People are civilized to cultures that are compatible with their own culture (the Chinese seem to integrate without a bother), but when certain cultures involve begging, mugging and raping children, it hardly surprises me where the hostility towards those cultures comes from.

511

511 wrote: »

That's what political correctness has brought to Europe. People are civilized to cultures that are compatible with their own culture (the Chinese seem to integrate without a bother), but when certain cultures involve begging, mugging and raping children, it hardly surprises me where the hostility towards those cultures comes from.

With so many races around these days, what racist has the time to go after all of them?

The modern racist needs to be discerning.

Phoebas

511 wrote: »

So covering up child-grooming gangs in the UK, mass sex assaults in Cologne and the Gardai refusing to deal with Roma gypsy muggers on Dame Lane is all in the name of civility?

That's what political correctness has brought to Europe. People are civilized to cultures that are compatible with their own culture (the Chinese seem to integrate without a bother), but when certain cultures involve begging, mugging and raping children, it hardly surprises me where the hostility towards those cultures comes from.

I think you'll find that all of these activities are cross cultural.

Bob24

Phoebas wrote: »

I think you'll find that all of these activities are cross cultural.

Yet, once you go pass the moralising tone and the injunction to put everyone in the same basket, you can see that some cultures and immigration flows bring many more of these issues than others, and at a much larger scale.

Palmach

oscarBravo wrote: »

.

What puzzles me is why you seem to feel that xenophobia and distrust of foreigners should automatically be pandered to. It was? The Constitutional Court hasn't claimed that. Where are you getting it from?

What puzzles me is the swiftness with which the multicultis heap opprobrium on the heads of those who don't vote the "right" way. Have a gander at the Austrian football team. As varied as they come given the names and colour. Having been to Austria most Austrians seem fair but are no prepared to accept open unregulated borders and fair play to them.