Why were Portugal so bad for so long?

Chivito550

Many may not realise, given Portugal are permanent fixtures in major championships these days, and have made it to quite a few semi finals, but there was a long period of time where they never qualified for anything.

Between 1930 and 1982 (inclusive) the only major championship they qualified for was the 1966 World Cup where they finished third. After that they did not qualify for another championship until the 1984 European Championships, where they made the semi finals, and the 1986 World Cup where they went out in the group stages.

Then after that it was another 10 years before they qualified for anything again, which was Euro 96. They then missed out on the 1998 World Cup, and it has only been since Euro 2000 that their streak of major championships started.

Why were they so poor for so long, when now they are consistently at the business end of major championships?

MD1990

I think its forgotten that Portugal is a small country. Population of 10 million. With that population you can have cycles of success but its unlikely to be sustained unless there is a great youth system.

Chivito550

MD1990 wrote: »

I think its forgotten that Portugal is a small country. Population of 10 million.

True, but it seems odd that a nation which such a strong football heritage (they don't excel in much else bar long distance running) failed consistently to make it to the World Cup finals and European Championships at a time when the game was far less globalised.

Nerdlingr

Too busy looking at themselves in the mirror I suspect.

Flint Fredstone

They have always come across as a really spineless team to me, flattering to deceive at most of the big tournaments. I hope they're knocked out next round because they are the most undeserving quarter finalists I've ever seen.

Hesh's Umpire

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

they are the most undeserving quarter finalists I've ever seen.

Semi finalists now.

doc11

less teams qualified for euro and WC pre 1996

Flint Fredstone

Hesh's Umpire wrote: »

Semi finalists now.

Doh!!!

I'm all over the place at the minute. For some reason I thought that was the last game of the 16's round.

ArmaniJeanss

Right wing dictatorship from WW1 until mid 1970s, maybe they saw football (working class game) as a threat to be kept in its place rather than something to be encouraged?
Though on the other hand their club sides did well in this era.

Maybe a Spanish style problem where the players of Lisbon, SLB and Porto hated each other so much they couldn't unite for the national team?

Harry Palmr

Portugal got the SF with five 90 minute draws. That's either ****e or the very definition of tournament football strategy!

Dunno why they didn't do at all well for a long period but they've hardly ever done it well when they have qualified, mainly due to a chronic lack of strikers I suppose.

Chivito550

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Portugal got the SF with five 90 minute draws. That's either ****e or the very definition of tournament football strategy!

Dunno why they didn't do at all well for a long period but they've hardly ever done it well when they have qualified, mainly due to a chronic lack of strikers I suppose.

They've made the semi finals of the Euros in 1984, 2000, 2004 (final), 2012, 2016

They've made the semi finals of the World Cup in 1966, 2006

It's fair to say they have performed well when they have qualified, but it's quite amazing that they have only regularly started qualifying since the late 90s.

weisses

They did not win one single match in regular time this tournament

Boring squad is an understatement

Harry Palmr

Chivito550 wrote: »

They've made the semi finals of the Euros in 1984, 2000, 2004 (final), 2012, 2016

They've made the semi finals of the World Cup in 1966, 2006

It's fair to say they have performed well when they have qualified, but it's quite amazing that they have only regularly started qualifying since the late 90s.

Sorry I wasn't clear when I said

done it well

- ie played well at tournaments. They always seem a scruffy narky side who just do enough - like Italy.

Iused2likebusts

They are poor now but they were a great team to watch a in the rui Costa and figo era.

ArmaniJeanss

weisses wrote: »

They did not win one single match in regular time this tournament

Boring squad is an understatement

They've been in the most entertaining game (3-3 v Hungary), absolutely battered Austria for 90 minutes in an unfathomable 0-0 draw where they had ~25 attempts, and had an enjoyable 1-1 with Iceland in their opener.

I think the "haven't won a game in 90 minutes" thing is leading them to being unfairly labelled as boring. They were the team trying the most against Poland also. Croatia game was terrible obviously.

fyfe79

I think a similar thought can be applied to Ireland. We assume that because we only started qualifying for major tournaments from 1988 onwards, that we were ****e before. We had some great teams in the late 60's, 70's and 80's that never qualified for various reasons - the main one being that final tournaments were much smaller, allowing for only group winners to go through (I'm not entirely sure about World Cups... were there play-off spots back in the day for group runner-ups?).

Also, 'small' teams like Ireland would invariably be on the wrong end of terrible and generally unaccountable refereeing decisions, which when they happen now, such as Henry's handball in '09, there is a much larger focus on. Back then it was a case of "tough luck, go home Paddy". Especially when playing behind the old iron curtain.

I imagine Portugal were often living in Spain's shadow and were never quite good enough to top their qualifying groups.

Chivito550

fyfe79 wrote: »

I think a similar thought can be applied to Ireland. We assume that because we only started qualifying for major tournaments from 1988 onwards, that we were ****e before. We had some great teams in the late 60's, 70's and 80's that never qualified for various reasons - the main one being that final tournaments were much smaller, allowing for only group winners to go through (I'm not entirely sure about World Cups... were there play-off spots back in the day for group runner-ups?).

Also, 'small' teams like Ireland would invariably be on the wrong end of terrible and generally unaccountable refereeing decisions, which when they happen now, such as Henry's handball in '09, there is a much larger focus on. Back then it was a case of "tough luck, go home Paddy". Especially when playing behind the old iron curtain.

I imagine Portugal were often living in Spain's shadow and were never quite good enough to top their qualifying groups.

Interestingly the Dutch were very poor before the 1970s, rarely qualifying for the World Cup (I think only once before 1974), and Spain were not a massive force in World Cups throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s.

1954 - Did not qualify
1958 - Did not qualify
1962 - Group Stages
1966 - Group Stages
1970 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1978 - Group Stages

That's a fairly shocking record over the space of a quarter of a century.

Chivito550

doc11 wrote: »

less teams qualified for euro and WC pre 1996

Yes, but if you look at the World Cups back in the 50s to 70s, a lot of the places were filled by European teams. In 1962 for example, 10 of the 16 finalists were from Europe. So even though there are more places now, the percentage of places that go to Europe is much less than back then. Also there were only about 32 countries in Europe during that time (before the breakup of the Eastern bloc), so for Portugal to consistently fail to make the top 10 of 32 in Europe is quite alarming.

fyfe79

Chivito550 wrote: »

That's a fairly shocking record over the space of a quarter of a century.

Also it messes up my notion that Portugal were living in Spain's shadow!

They qualified for 1966, if I recall correctly that was at the expense of Ireland. The infamous tie when the FAI chose to play the home game in Paris for money, in effect giving Spain 2 home games. That's another reason for Ireland's failures back then - our own FAI working against the best interests of the team.

Chivito550

fyfe79 wrote: »

Also it messes up my notion that Portugal were living in Spain's shadow!

They qualified for 1966, if I recall correctly that was at the expense of Ireland. The infamous tie when the FAI chose to play the home game in Paris for money, in effect giving Spain 2 home games. That's another reason for Ireland's failures back then - our own FAI working against the best interests of the team.

Was the game in Paris not a deciding match after the first 2 games were level?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)

DEFTLEFTHAND

I imagine they still kick themselves over not winning Euro 2004 on home soil. They lost to Greece twice in that tournament, in the opening game and final.

They had some team on paper in 2004 with many operating at their peak.

Chivito550

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I imagine they still kick themselves over not winning Euro 2004 on home soil. They lost to Greece twice in that tournament, in the opening game and final.

They had some team on paper in 2004 with many operating at their peak.

Euro 2000 is one that got away too. Lost to France on golden goal with 3 minutes left in extra time. France went onto sneak past Italy in the final. 4 years ago they lost to Spain on penalties, another near miss.

dfx-

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I imagine they still kick themselves over not winning Euro 2004 on home soil. They lost to Greece twice in that tournament, in the opening game and final.

They had some team on paper in 2004 with many operating at their peak.

Maybe that tournament is the reason they have stank at almost every Euros/World Cup since. 2006, 2010, 2014, 2016 certainly.

Mec27

Its funny because I start watching football in France 98 my perception of Portugal took years to chance. They weren't there so I always just assumed they weren't all that even after Euro 2000. Their squad used to be very unglamorous, sure you had Figo and Rui Costa but you also then had the rest of team that seemed more like journeymen than bonafied stars(probably just my perception) It wasn't until Mourinho's Porto created stars out of Carvalho, Ferreira, Maniche, Costinha and Deco that to me at least they seemed like a proper legit tier team.

Corholio

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

They have always come across as a really spineless team to me, flattering to deceive at most of the big tournaments. I hope they're knocked out next round because they are the most undeserving quarter finalists I've ever seen.

In what way though? They've created loads of chances to win pretty much all the games and have dominated big sections of every one too. Behind 3 times in one match and not lose doesn't come across as spineless to me. I've enjoyed watching them.

Regarding the initial question though, the striker problem has always been a big thing for them. They've always lacked a real quality striker, even Pauleta when on form never got it right in tournaments and often found his level in those situations. They've had really good players in almost every other position consistently except up front.

Mec27

In 30 years time the future generation are going to ponder the same question when America lifts its second world cup on home soil at the 2054 world cup(they won their first in 2038)

fyfe79

Chivito550 wrote: »

Was the game in Paris not a deciding match after the first 2 games were level?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)

Ah, that's it. It was a one-off but the FAI agreed to move it from England to France, at Spain's request, effectively changing it from a 'home' tie (considering the huge Irish diaspora there) to an 'away' tie in Paris which enabled Spaniards to travel in their droves.

Hulk Hands

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

They have always come across as a really spineless team to me, flattering to deceive at most of the big tournaments. I hope they're knocked out next round because they are the most undeserving quarter finalists I've ever seen.

Don't think theyre particularly undeserving in this tournament (better team last night for sure). Lucky to get the easy half of the draw certainly. However if you're taking a long term view of things, they shouldve been in the Euro 2012 final, after outplaying Spain and getting robbed on penalties. Spain then hammered Italy in the final. Theyre due a bit of luck

bucketybuck

weisses wrote: »

They did not win one single match in regular time this tournament

Boring squad is an understatement

I assume you didn't watch a single game then?

Out of all the group stage games I watched Portugal were the one side constantly looking to attack, they weren't getting the goals but at least they weren't parking the bus like a lot of other scared teams.

There is a reason those crazy stats were released after the group stages, of Ronaldo having more shots on goal than 8 whole teams combined and twice as many as superstar Bale. Portugal battered Iceland, Austria and Hungary but didn't get the all important goals, that doesn't make mean they are boring, just that they are bad finishers.

They were the only team in their group actually trying to win games by scoring goals, in my opinion that makes them most deserving of qualifying, not least.

Kobe248

People cheer against Portugal because of Ronaldo

Bale gets cheered for being the same footballer

Anyone that calls Portugal boring honestly havent a clue and havent watched a game of football

This is a cup tournament

They dont need to win games

They need to progress

Ireland won a game and look where it got us