Another smash on the hartstown road

Gavin "shels"

Slightly up the road a bit, but a Ford Focus flew down Sheepmoor Grove (from the Centre) overtaking myself and another car who had stopped for the red light and skidding right into Whitestown Park (no filter light). One of the most dangerous pieces of driving I've witnessed in my 2 years as a fully licensed driver!

Polar101

I'd guess it's just a speeding issue - if you stand at a bus stop on Hartstown road for a few minutes and look at the new speed signs, you'll notice the majority of the cars (just my observation, not an official true statistic) passing by go over the speed limit. And the road is not straight, which might make it more dangerous when speeding.

Then again I don't really see anyone driving the Hartstown 'loop' over 120kph like on the Ongar Road..

Larbre34

ThisRegard wrote: »

Buses, and most wide axled vehicles, can straddle the cushions, they offer no obstacle to them at all.

Most cars can too, the ones on Diswellstown Road are exactly what I was thinking of. Ive been able to pass over them in my mid-size motor without modifying speed at all and without feeling anything more than you would from an old patch of roadworks on any road, i.e. they are useless and if good money is thrown after bad to install them on Hartstown Road, they wont do anything to the accident rate.

The Diswellstown Road ramps were installed as a sop to the local community after a child was tragically killed, but in reality that incident could easily happen again there and indeed anywhere. There are always selfish negligent gobshyte drivers. Look at the case during the week where the lad in N.I. hit a pole at speed and knocked it over killing a poor unfortunate OAP - because the stupid moron was looking at second cars on the internet on his phone as he drove along! There really is no accounting for that type of cretinous behaviour.

Personally I feel traffic calming is seen as a challenge to the boy racers. Who can take the chicanes or mini-roundabouts at the fastest lick and so on. The main road through Ballyfermot village is a classic example.

beauf

Larbre34 wrote: »

Most cars can too, the ones on Diswellstown Road are exactly what I was thinking of. Ive been able to pass over them in my mid-size motor without modifying speed at all and without feeling anything more than you would from an old patch of roadworks on any road, i.e. they are useless and if good money is thrown after bad to install them on Hartstown Road, they wont do anything to the accident rate. ...

I would disagree with you.

Yes there is still speeding on Diswellstown but from my anecdotal experience its greatly reduced, in that the average speed is lower. I expect its because the ramps require cars to hit them just right and that is hard to do when there are other traffic on the road, cyclists etc. Also with lowered or stiff suspension (basically any audi) they still have to slow down even if they only slightly clip the ramp. The ramps also have islands in the middle which tend to make people slow subconsciously.

Theres no enforcement anywhere though. Thats the real issue, and the only real solution. They should commercialise it.

VeVeX

beauf wrote: »

Theres no enforcement anywhere though. Thats the real issue, and the only real solution. They should commercialise it.

They already did. The problem is they'd rather sit in spots with high traffic volume shooting fish in a barrell to maximise profit. The Hartstown road wouldnt fit the for-profit criteria.

beauf

Considering the recent study

Speed detection data in urban areas in Galway and Mayo show that speeding in urban areas is a significant issue with speed limit compliance as low as 2% in one location and less than 50% in another.

I think there has to be enough fines generated to make it worth while to someone. They need to find the right someone.

DvB

Polar101 wrote: »

Then again I don't really see anyone driving the Hartstown 'loop' over 120kph like on the Ongar Road..

Wow. Drive this road at least 20 times a week & have never seen anyone do anything like that kind of speed on the ongar road, too much traffic & too many red lights pretty much make it hard to get up past the speed limit, never mind hitting 100+
Unless this is in the small hours of the morning of course?

daymobrew

VeVeX wrote: »

They already did. The problem is they'd rather sit in spots with high traffic volume shooting fish in a barrell to maximise profit. The Hartstown road wouldnt fit the for-profit criteria.

Not quite - they are limited to locations set by the Gardai and these locations are often where there has been a fatality. There was one on Coolmine Road between Clonsilla Road and Coolmine Train Station and that is why it is a possible speed camera location.

I would love to see the Gardai automate the detection of untaxed cars - any vehicle where the motor tax is not renewed and the vehicle is not reported as out of use gets its reg put in the licence plate recognition system and the Gardai are alerted as they drive around and end up behind such a car. Similar could be done for insurance and NCT. They wouldn't even have to think - the computer would do it!

VeVeX

daymobrew wrote: »

Not quite - they are limited to locations set by the Gardai and these locations are often where there has been a fatality. There was one on Coolmine Road between Clonsilla Road and Coolmine Train Station and that is why it is a possible speed camera location.

I would love to see the Gardai automate the detection of untaxed cars - any vehicle where the motor tax is not renewed and the vehicle is not reported as out of use gets its reg put in the licence plate recognition system and the Gardai are alerted as they drive around and end up behind such a car. Similar could be done for insurance and NCT. They wouldn't even have to think - the computer would do it!

Funny how the spots the vans sit are mostly where there's a ridiculously low limits or just after a change to the speed limit. When you privatise any public service the number one priority becomes revenue collection.

Most traffic corps cars have automatic detection of untaxed cars and cars without valid NCT using ANPR. So if its is being used without tax or NCT is would be flagged automatically.

ThisRegard

The private operators don't get a cut from the number of fines they collect, they're paid the same if they catch 1 or 1 million.

beauf

They should if you want to tackle the problem

daymobrew

VeVeX wrote: »

Most traffic corps cars have automatic detection of untaxed cars and cars without valid NCT using ANPR. So if its is being used without tax or NCT is would be flagged automatically.

A Garda in Blanchardstown told me that the Traffic Corps often turn off the detector because it was triggered so often. :mad:

January

We were on the 220 this morning towards Finglas and going past Hunstown church/school, the next junction on the left there a car came out right in front of the bus turning right. With driving like that, there's no wonder there are multiple crashes there.

ejabrod

daymobrew wrote: »

Not quite - they are limited to locations set by the Gardai and these locations are often where there has been a fatality. There was one on Coolmine Road between Clonsilla Road and Coolmine Train Station and that is why it is a possible speed camera location.

I would love to see the Gardai automate the detection of untaxed cars - any vehicle where the motor tax is not renewed and the vehicle is not reported as out of use gets its reg put in the licence plate recognition system and the Gardai are alerted as they drive around and end up behind such a car. Similar could be done for insurance and NCT. They wouldn't even have to think - the computer would do it!

So how exactly are you making a correlation between untaxed cars and deaths on this particular road? :rolleyes:

If anything uninsured cars and/or cars without NCT should be the primary target, no?

daymobrew

ejabrod wrote: »

So how exactly are you making a correlation between untaxed cars and deaths on this particular road? :rolleyes:

I was replying to VeVex's post about speed camera locations.

ejabrod wrote: »

If anything uninsured cars and/or cars without NCT should be the primary target, no?

I was suggesting a way to make finding such cars more efficient and effective. Also, an uninsured/taxed/NCTed car might just be the start of things - you might find that the driver has an expired license or isn't wearing a seat belt.

VeVeX

ThisRegard wrote: »

The private operators don't get a cut from the number of fines they collect, they're paid the same if they catch 1 or 1 million.

You better believe there's more to that arrangement than meets the eye. I'd be absolutely bowled over is there wasn't a quota and subsequent bonuses for exceeding the quota. Conveniently the company who has the contract is based in the Isle of Man so having a gander of the books is not possible. They even went so far as to drop a speed charge against someone who challenged the contract rather than release its details to the court for scrutiny,

Have a read of these for starters -

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/speed-camera-contract-awarded-to-gosafe-1.2712872

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/court-denied-go-safe-contract-355129.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gosafe-speed-van-sister-firm-caught-in-2m-chicago-bribery-scandal-34442996.html

Polar101

DvB wrote: »

Wow. Drive this road at least 20 times a week & have never seen anyone do anything like that kind of speed on the ongar road, too much traffic & too many red lights pretty much make it hard to get up past the speed limit, never mind hitting 100+
Unless this is in the small hours of the morning of course?

Yes sorry, that sort of thing normally happens only at night (1-2am). Haven't seen it during normal hours either.

thomasj

Did anyone see the letter from jack chambers?

So the recommendation of the council is speeding cushions and islands cost approximately 43k

Larbre34

thomasj wrote: »

Did anyone see the letter from jack chambers?

So the recommendation of the council is speeding cushions and islands cost approximately 43k

No sorry, never get anything through the door from Deputy Chambers, then again I do live west of the M50

thomasj

The letter was sent around hartstown. I got it myself.

daymobrew

thomasj wrote: »

So the recommendation of the council is speeding cushions and islands cost approximately 43k

43k!!!
On Diswellstown Road the (useless) speed cushions were simply bloted to the road. There was about 1.6km of works. It would be interesting to hear how much that cost and see if it was much cheaper.

WTSIB

"bloted"-- ??

dickwod1

Bolted aka screwed down

Dartz

Well. There goes the suspension on my car for sure.

These things batter anything low and stiff.

Zaph

thomasj wrote: »

Did anyone see the letter from jack chambers?

So the recommendation of the council is speeding cushions and islands cost approximately 43k

From what I remember reading, they're for the link road between Hartstown Rd and Ongar Rd, rather than for Hartstown Rd itself.

thomasj

Zaph wrote:

From what I remember reading, they're for the link road between Hartstown Rd and Ongar Rd, rather than for Hartstown Rd itself.

I don't think it is Zaph because in the letter chambers says its a busy bus route . Buses don't use the distributor road. And surely you wouldn't spend 43k on a small road ?

thomasj

Here's the letter for anyone interested .

Zaph

The letter says the Hartstown Distributor Road, which isn't the same as Hartstown Road. And I have seen buses going down that road, but I've no idea which route.

thomasj

I've never ever seen a bus on the hartstown distributor road.

thomasj

This seems to be the survey , the material doesn't seem to open but have a look at Paul Donnelly's submission

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/traffic-calming-scheme-hartstown-distributor-road-dublin-15