I've just had an auctioneer ask me for €10k in cash to close a deal

JJJJNR

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's illegal to record the call without informing him.

If your getting a great deal and want the house pay the 10k

Once you've the keys you can worry about getting some of the 10k back, little threat of a call to the revenue will fix that.
Get the house first before doing anything.

ITs not illegal its illegal for a third party to record it, get you facts straight.

OP record it and send it on to the regulator.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

livedadream

Emersyn Helpful Metro wrote: »

Why are banks, insurance companies, utility companies etc compelled to inform you that your call is being recorded so?

because their businesses not private people...

Postal Packets and Telecommunications Messages (Regulation) Act 1993, states recording a phone conversation between other people without their authorisation amounts to interception- a criminal offence.

The 1993 Act allowsthe recording of phone calls provided that either the caller (of course you can consent to your own phone call) or the receiver consents to it.

This is why, for example, when you ring your bank or insurance company, an automated voice informs you that you may be recorded. No breach of the law occurs in that situation as you are deemed to consent to the recording if you stay on the line.

JJJJNR

Emersyn Helpful Metro wrote: »

Why are banks, insurance companies, utility companies etc compelled to inform you that your call is being recorded so?

Because they are the third party recording the call.


You - > person at the end of the line + third party i.e. the recording bank. insurance company etc.

Divelment

Give Mick Wallace a call!

emeldc

davo10 wrote: »

Look above your head, any moment now a lightbulb will go on.

What possible advantage would the EA see for the op to pay €10k unless they were going to get it cheaper by paying him? If he isn't paid, the property stays on the market until a similar/higher bid is accepted. Property prices are rising, it's in today's indo.

I'd be inclined to think that the EA is just a greedy cnut and couldn't care less how much the house sells for. Presumably the OP has offered what he thinks the house is worth so maybe he's not saving anything by paying the €10K. Like how many more offers have there been?
I wouldn't pay it. I'd record the conversation (legal or not) and go straight to the revenue with it.

L1011

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Tone it down a little, it's the way the world works. Banks will get the price their willing to accept, seller gets his 10k and OP gets a bargain, everybody's happy.

Tone what down?

Its fraud - there is nothing to tone down. The "seller" has stolen money from the bank, the auctioneer has facilitiated that and the buyer has avoided paying stamp duty on the full price.

Kimbot

So the agent gets his fee for selling the house and an extra undeclared 10k........ Looks like the boom times are back lads

Ms Doubtfire1

don't do it.NEVER EVER pay anything outside the normal business fee's.

laoisman11

davo10 wrote: »

Welcome to the real world, don't think for a second that when you were buying your home, if the EA said that he could get you your house for €50k less if you paid him €5k, you wouldn't at least consider it.

I'm not saying it is right, but it is up to the op to at least consider the benefits to him/her of getting the house for less than it may be worth.

The only thing I would consider in that situation is whether to tell the EA to f*ck off straight away or to say nothing and report him to the relevant authorities. And if nothing came of that, to take it further.

Yes, the benefits of him/her of getting the house for less than it may be worth exist, but not without screwing someone else over.

Senna

Is it possible the OP is jumping to the wrong conclusion and this isn't a bribe. Booking deposit paid, but €10k is rest of deposit?

TheDoc

Stay well clear OP. Granted a ball is in your court, you could leverage this against the aunctioneer to sort out the deal, or you will report you were offered a bribe to close out the sale. Even the case being raised can be enough to ruin a reputation.

Remember there could be other potential buyers involved here. If I lost out on a sale because I did not pay a bribe and heard you did, I'd be throwing out enough legal recource to make sure everyone got tarnished for it. So remember that if you do that, your putting your neck on the line.

Kevhog1988

Happened to me on xmas week last year. I was sick over it.

2RockMountain

laoisman11 wrote: »

The only thing I would consider in that situation is whether to tell the EA to f*ck off straight away or to say nothing and report him to the relevant authorities. And if nothing came of that, to take it further.

Yes, the benefits of him/her of getting the house for less than it may be worth exist, but not without screwing someone else over.

Along with the important moral and ethical issues that you highlight, there is also the very important practical issue - once you hand over the €10k, you have no control over what happens. The agent can walk away from the sale and keep your €10k, and have no leverage. The agent is probably no fool, and is probably smart enough to get their hands on the cash without admitting anything that could be recorded.

It's a bit difficult to go the Gardai and say 'I gave yer man a €10k bribe and he didn't do the job'.

billymitchell

Senna wrote: »

Is it possible the OP is jumping to the wrong conclusion and this isn't a bribe. Booking deposit paid, but €10k is rest of deposit?

I think its the fact that the auctioneer is asking for cash is what has everybody suspicious. Surely if it was all legit, the auctioneer would just ask for a bank transfer so it is all recorded

drunkmonkey

L1011 wrote: »

Tone what down?

Its fraud - there is nothing to tone down. The "seller" has stolen money from the bank, the auctioneer has facilitiated that and the buyer has avoided paying stamp duty on the full price.

How is it fraud? He's being asked for 10k to close the deal. If the EA or Seller doesn't declare the 10k to the revenue then that's fraud but asking OP for an extra 10k in cash is not fraud. Dubious yes, but not fraud.

drunkmonkey

theemigrant wrote: »

Happened to me on xmas week last year. I was sick over it.

Did you pay it or what happened, were you getting a deal?

L1011

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How is it fraud? He's being asked for 10k to close the deal. If the EA or Seller doesn't declare the 10k to the revenue then that's fraud but asking OP for an extra 10k in cash is not fraud. Dubious yes, but not fraud.

He's being asked to pay more than the price the bank will be told.

baldbear

gordongekko wrote: »

Jesus what's the big deal. Either pay it or walk away. Nobody is forcing you to accept the terms.

"The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good."

Cathmandooo

billymitchell wrote: »

I think its the fact that the auctioneer is asking for cash is what has everybody suspicious. Surely if it was all legit, the auctioneer would just ask for a bank transfer so it is all recorded

Asking for cash doesn't mean it's not a bank transfer. Cash means not a loan / mortgage, they have the funds in place.

emeldc

Cathmandooo wrote: »

Asking for cash doesn't mean it's not a bank transfer. Cash means not a loan / mortgage, they have the funds in place.

Ah come on. He's an auctioneer, a businessman. If he had meant a bank transfer he would have asked for one. He asked for CASH.

Henry Ford III

I'd arrange a meeting. Video/record it. Bring a bag full of fake cash.

Get the auctioneer talking. Let them incriminate themselves.

When he/she has said enough spill the beans and ask them what do they propose to do now.....

Graham

emeldc wrote: »

Ah come on. He's an auctioneer, a businessman. If he had meant a bank transfer he would have asked for one. He asked for CASH.

If someone says they're a cash buyer, it doesn't necessarily mean they're planning to turn up with bundles on non-sequentially numbered notes.

emeldc

Graham wrote: »

If someone says they're a cash buyer, it doesn't necessarily mean they're planning to turn up with bundles on non-sequentially numbered notes.

Correct, absolutely nothing wrong with paying for something in cash, as long as you can account for where the cash came from!
The EA on the other hand isn't buying anything, he's selling a property for someone else .......... and by the sound of it, is looking for a brown envelope for himself.

Graham

emeldc wrote: »

Correct, absolutely nothing wrong with paying for something in cash, as long as you can account for where the cash came from!
The EA on the other hand isn't buying anything, he's selling a property for someone else .......... and by the sound of it, is looking for a brown envelope for himself.

If there's a 'cash buyer' in any transaction, it's usually safe to assume there's a buyer/agent as the counterpart.

I suppose there's a chance the Estate Agent is looking for a bribe, there's also a chance the agent is indicating the offer needs to be improved by 10k and there's no time to hang around waiting for additional finance.

kravmaga

Cerbera wrote: »

I thought that the days of the brown envelope were a thing of the past, particularly in the property sector, but obviously that's not the case

I've just been told by an auctioneer that he'll provisionally accept my offer but I will have to come up with another €10k in cash before the deal will be completed

I was in shock and should have just told him there and then to go fu(k himself but didn't and just said something along the lines of having trouble getting my hands on that kind of cash

He's selling the place for some bank

Is there any way I can find out what bank own it now and can I just contact them directly and see if I can buy it directly from them?

Walk away, absolute disgrace, report report report, thought those days were gone

TheDoc

Jesus people are being so bloody stupid here.

In pretty much any business transaction of any value, if someone "asks" for cash, you know full well whats going on there, and if you don't you havn't experienced enough of the world. If someone asks for 10k cash, on a six figure transaction, you should very bloody well know what the score is.

Come on folks, wake up please.

drunkmonkey

emeldc wrote: »

and by the sound of it, is looking for a brown envelope for himself.

It's usually the seller wants the cash not the estate agent. EA just wants the deal closed and to get his commission.

Paulw

MOD Note: I think there are enough comments and speculation here. Plenty of advice for the OP.

Thread Closed.