Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

Mrs OBumble

You may have seen invitation from the council to attend information sessions about the draft Galway Transport Strategy a couple of weeks back. Like most people didn't get there after a hard day in the office. Having now seen some of the details, I'm kinda sorry I didn't try harder. Anyways:

There is now a draft strategy being consulted on. It has some proposals which will have a major effect on the inner city.

Submissions are due next Monday, 11 July. I'm going to make a submission. Other people should too - or else it will be just me and the cyclists telling the council what we think!



Where to find more info
Overall webpage with links: http://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy/

Flyer - tells you about the strategy and the consultation, and how to make a submission: http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Consultation%20Flyer.pdf

Display boards - used at the public consutation, summarise major info: http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20PC%20Boards%20-%20English.pdf

Executive summary document: http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Executive%20Summary%20Report%20-%20English.pdf



Some points that I think may be contentious:

The Cross-city link (roads listed )will be restricted to public-transport (buses and taxis), bicycles, pedestrians and in some (doesn't say which) cases local residential access.

• University Road
• Salmon Weir Bridge
• Francis St
• Eglington St
• Eyre Square
• Victoria Place
• Forster St
• College Rd

Salmon Weir bridge becomes buses, taxis and bicycles only. New bridge for pedestrians.

Section 4.2 - City Centre Access network: "Private motorised traffic will be able to access the city centre in all directions and to exit on the same side. But in order to circulate within the city cars will have to use the outer orbital River Corrib crossings."
Translated, this means cars won't be allowed over the O'Briens or Salmon Weir bridges - at any time of the day or night.

Park and Ride will provide the "park" side (specific sites not identifed), but rely on the wider city network in order to provide the "ride" component.

Truck delivery hours to the entire city centre become the same as the current hours for Shop St and Quay St. (The trucks already struggle to get Shop and Quay St finished in time. If you work in small/medium business, then goodness only knows what time in the morning you will have to be at work to receive deliveries!)

The proposed cycling network includes a dedicated cycle path through Merlin Woods - along the route which the locals rejected a road for. (What's the betting that this would be a particularly wide cycle path???)


Some points which I don't think are contentious (you might):

Light rail is over-kill for the level of demand in Galway. With buses, we can have 80% occupancy. With similar light rail, it would be 25% (implication: not enough to be viable).

If buses go thru the city centre rather than orbital routes (like Quin Bridge), then twice as many people catch them as would an outer-only route. So we can have twice the frequency - and more places wehre people can change to a different route - if they go through the centre.

gordongekko

How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

cgcsb

Sounds fantastic, Galway really needs this. Here's hoping that the bus frequency is dramatically increased and the park and rides are good quality.

jjpep

Since when is an executive summary 96 pages :-)

Sounds great i think. It really does feel between plans like this and the potential disruption that automous cars could create that the idea of owning a private car in 20 years time would be something only done by hobbists and enthusiasts rather the vast majority of the population.

Wompa1

I feel like that could move a lot of traffic to Cross St and Abbeygate...

Two streets that are much more narrow than the likes of Eyre Square.

If Salmon Wier is gone and Foster St is also gone, it's going to really restrict access to the city...do they think people will just take a bus instead? I can see more people going longer alternative routes and traffic being even more of a nightmare than it already is...

I hope whoever is planning this has planned more thoroughly than the people who planned the junctions.

45mhrc7evo1d3n

I'd be very surprised if cars were banned from University Road, given that the only vehicular entrance to the Quadrangle area of NUI Galway is located there.

snubbleste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You may have seen invitation from the council to attend information sessions about the draft Galway Transport Strategy a couple of weeks back....

Was'nt that the week when we had wall-to-wall sunshine?

snubbleste

Clayton Refined Servitude wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if cars were banned from University Road, given that the only vehicular entrance to the Quadrangle area of NUI Galway is located there.

Well obviously, local traffic would be allowed, to UpperCanalRoad also.

snubbleste

gordongekko wrote: »

How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

Dunno, How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

charlie_says

Closing 50% of the bridges to private road traffic?

I'm no traffic engineer but doesn't it just seem obvious that it would just create terrible choke points and congestion in convergence areas nearer where they are allowed to cross the river?

You'd need a major shift in people's attitudes to public transport for this to work and frequency of busses. Huge park and ride facilities. Lower bus fares.

I'm sceptical about this plan.

snubbleste

charlie_says wrote: »

Closing 50% of the bridges to private road traffic?
I'm no traffic engineer but doesn't it just seem obvious that it would just create terrible choke points and congestion in convergence areas nearer the where they are allowed to cross the river?
You'd need a major shift in people's attitudes to public transport for this to work and frequency of busses. Huge park and ride facilities. Lower bus fares.
I'm sceptical about this plan.

If they won't take the bus, we'll force them to take the bus!
Wonder how much this Galway Transport Strategy cost us to put together.
I've only skimmed it but it's somewhat unrealistic.

cgcsb

I note that buses coming from the Salthill direction will be forced on a long diversion to cross the Salmon Weir bridge rather than the current routing via wolf tone bridge. Hopefully the bus priority measures can make up the extra journey time increase.

Mrs OBumble

gordongekko wrote: »

How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

Using their bus-pass, or a taxi. (For their next life-stage, it's unclear whether hearses will count as public transport, or whether funeral directors will be expected to wheel deceased people down from the hospital.)

Similar issues apply to the Abbey (private cars will be able to get to the back entrance, but it's not usually used by the public at the moment) and to St Patricks, and the Poor Clares and The Bish (though they may move to Dangan before it happens).

Some other consequences:

• BnB's on College Road will only be able to have guests arrive by bicycle, bus or taxi. (The one-way trial last year must have been softening them up for this!).
  
• Similarly for councillors travelling to City Hall, and anyone going to the sportsground.

Submissions close next Monday, and are accepted by email. Contact info here: http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Consultation%20Flyer.pdf




FWIW, I think there is some good stuff in this document. It's taken reasoned look at the light-rail question, and the orbital bus question - personally I think that demand could be grown enough to make the latter viable - but I'm no public-transport engineer. But there's also some whack stuff, and using a hammer to crack a walnut ideas too.

cgcsb

charlie_says wrote: »

Closing 50% of the bridges to private road traffic?

I'm no traffic engineer but doesn't it just seem obvious that it would just create terrible choke points and congestion in convergence areas nearer where they are allowed to cross the river?

You'd need a major shift in people's attitudes to public transport for this to work and frequency of busses. Huge park and ride facilities. Lower bus fares.

I'm sceptical about this plan.

The scheme overall will mean faster public transport and slower private car access. The same thing has been done in cities all over the world and generally the result is a shift towards public transport as it becomes the more fastest and more convenient mode. The trick will be having sufficient bus capacity and frequency to accommodate the shift.

Also Newcastle road is likely to see a huge increase in buses and cars as a result of the change and I fear that there will be no bus priority here and buses will end up facing severe delays trying to get from the west to the Salmon bridge.

I doubt that bus fares will get any lower than the current €1.60, they're pretty cheap as is really.

dastardly00

Thanks Mrs OBumble for creating the thread. I hadn't heard/seen anything about this!

J.pilkington

I can't see this working without the city bypass / a way for people (cars / freight / buses etc) to go from east to west Galway without having to go into the city as they do now.

Imagine we could be opening the bypass around now and introducing some REAL public transport initiatives / incentives, but this is not possible due to anti progress career protestors who don't even live in the west of Ireland. Instead we are trying to make the city more car free (at crazy costs) except our hands are tied as we need to try and accommodate everyone but all we are doing is doing a half ass job of it because of the constraints.

All the while these career protestors have moved into their next project (where they will end up costing the government / taxpayers millions and millions in economic losses and costs) where they will hoover up large consultancy fees before retiring back to their Dublin mansions

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Gonna be a bit of a nightmare for people who commute in from the county or North Clare. My mam works in Forster Court, often finishes up around 8pm. No bus back to where she lives at that time and even if there were it costs €18 for a day return. Hope they take the wider public transport (not just city buses) and the park and ride into proper consideration, I'd say easily 40% of the people living in the village where I grew up commute to Galway

FortySeven

So a traffic issue caused mainly by a lack of bridges is solved by closing bridges? How early will I have to get up now to include a bus transfer and how much is it going to cost me a day?

Oh well, I suppose it will be good for business in rural areas now Galway will be avoided like the plague.

cgcsb

FortySeven wrote: »

So a traffic issue caused mainly by a lack of bridges is solved by closing bridges? How early will I have to get up now to include a bus transfer and how much is it going to cost me a day?

The traffic problem isn't caused by a lack of bridges, it's caused by generations of poor planning. The City is smaller in population than some Dublin suburbs but has been laid out without any planning policy in mind over too large an area. The result is car orientated travel. I would hope that the improved bus journey times will mean you can get up later in the morning. A standard leap fare is €1.60 per journey as far as I know.

reducing the utility of car travel in it's self has been shown to result in growth of other modes and a reduction of traffic volumes. Building more roads in urban areas only increases traffic congestion in the long term.

FortySeven

cgcsb wrote: »

The traffic problem isn't caused by a lack of bridges, it's caused by generations of poor planning. The City is smaller in population than some Dublin suburbs but has been laid out without any planning policy in mind over too large an area. The result is car orientated travel. I would hope that the improved bus journey times will mean you can get up later in the morning. A standard leap fare is €1.60 per journey as far as I know.

reducing the utility of car travel in it's self has been shown to result in growth of other modes and a reduction of traffic volumes. Building more roads in urban areas only increases traffic congestion in the long term.

May I enquire who commissioned those studies?

_Whimsical_

gordongekko wrote: »

How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

This really is a genuine issue, we will all be old at some point, some of us will be disabled in the future or inactive due to injury etc for a period. We surely can't completely close off the entire city to everyone who isn't able to walk distances easily or force them to rely on taxis.

Public transport becomes much less of an option if your mobility is restricted (on crutches due to a break or an op, in a wheelchair but not well enough to push yourself a distance). In those cases people very often have to be brought by car and dropped at places for work,ability to socialise, shop, attend appointments. It does have to be considered that people in these situations shouldn't be barred for any participation in city life.

There's always an argument that you have to plan to suit the majority but the majority of us will someday encounter those issues.

This sounds much too far reaching for my liking!

FortySeven

cgcsb wrote: »

The traffic problem isn't caused by a lack of bridges, it's caused by generations of poor planning. The City is smaller in population than some Dublin suburbs but has been laid out without any planning policy in mind over too large an area. The result is car orientated travel. I would hope that the improved bus journey times will mean you can get up later in the morning. A standard leap fare is €1.60 per journey as far as I know.

reducing the utility of car travel in it's self has been shown to result in growth of other modes and a reduction of traffic volumes. Building more roads in urban areas only increases traffic congestion in the long term.

I would imagine congestion at the park and ride will negate the transfer times, as will the standing in the shelter in the cold and rain waiting for the bus.

Then €16 on top that I don't spend on fuel. I suppose I get to stand in the bus too. Great. What an improvement.

cgcsb

FortySeven wrote: »

May I enquire who commissioned those studies?

Not sure what studies you refer to. I'm an engineer with a transport background. There are plenty of studies showing new build road capacity causing congestion.

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/californias-dot-admits-that-more-roads-mean-more-traffic/415245/

cgcsb

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

This really is a genuine issue, we will all be old at some point, some of us will be disabled in the future or inactive due to injury etc for a period. We surely can't completely close off the entire city to everyone who isn't able to walk distances easily or force them to rely on taxis.

Public transport becomes much less of an option if your mobility is restricted (on crutches due to a break or an op, in a wheelchair but not well enough to push yourself a distance). In those cases people very often have to be brought by car and dropped at places for work,ability to socialise, shop, attend appointments. It does have to be considered that people in these situations shouldn't be barred for any participation in city life.

There's always an argument that you have to plan to suit the majority but the majority of us will someday encounter those issues.

This sounds much too far reaching for my liking!

Buses in Galway have wheelchair ramps last I checked.

cgcsb

FortySeven wrote: »

I would imagine congestion at the park and ride will negate the transfer times, as will the standing in the shelter in the cold and rain waiting for the bus.

Then €16 on top that I don't spend on fuel. I suppose I get to stand in the bus too. Great. What an improvement.

the devil will be in the detail, obviously the park and ride design and capacity will be crucial.

_Whimsical_

cgcsb wrote: »

Buses in Galway have wheelchair ramps last I checked.

Yes, and those suit people in wheelchairs who are quite physically strong and well. There's a whole lot of other wheelchair users who aren't well,aren't able to push themselves distances through the town but aren't able to afford or don't fit in grant specifications to get electric wheelchairs from the HSE.
Then there are even more who aren't even able to get from their homes to bus stops due to inadequately planned footpaths of excessive height or tilt in the areas they live.
Those unfortunately are real issues.

Also will you tell your ailing,elderly granny you can't give her a lift to an appointment, that she'll have to walk to the bus stop and make her way through town to get there instead. Wheelchair ramps won't be much use to her.

gordongekko

cgcsb wrote: »

Buses in Galway have wheelchair ramps last I checked.

How do an elderly couple manage to get from home to the bus stop half a mile away then to get a bus only to find the 2 wheelchairs spaces are taken by a young mother who won't fold up the buggy to allow them onto the bus?

timmyntc

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Also will you tell your ailing,elderly granny you can't give her a lift to an appointment, that she'll have to walk to the bus stop and make her way through town to get there instead. Wheelchair ramps won't be much use to her.

Where does my granny have an appointment in the City that cannot be accessed by car? Have you read the proposal or just the thread title?

Eglinton St, Prospect Hill, Forster St and a few others in the immediate city center will be bus/taxi/cyclist only. Although I do believe there was some reference also to residents allowed to drive around, I'm not going to go through the whole thing again to confirm. City traffic will be allowed to go around the city, North via the Quincentennial bridge, south via Lough Atalia and whatever the lowest bridge is called, the name of which escapes me.

gordongekko wrote:

How do an elderly couple manage to get from home to the bus stop half a mile away then to get a bus only to find the 2 wheelchairs spaces are taken by a young mother who won't fold up the buggy to allow them onto the bus?

Do you really think that's going to happen?

gordongekko

timmyntc wrote: »

.


Do you really think that's going to happen?

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/sickening-bus-trip-disabled-little-3917822

Mrs OBumble

gordongekko wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/sickening-bus-trip-disabled-little-3917822

I've seen this happen in Galway, too.

Your average mammy these days doesn't seem to know how to fold up their buggy, even if they were willing to do so. And it's getting worse as the buggies get larger, and a higher proportion of them become double-buggies,

_Whimsical_

timmyntc wrote: »

Where does my granny have an appointment in the City that cannot be accessed by car? Have you read the proposal or just the thread title?

Eglinton St, Prospect Hill, Forster St and a few others in the immediate city center will be bus/taxi/cyclist only. Although I do believe there was some reference also to residents allowed to drive around, I'm not going to go through the whole thing again to confirm. City traffic will be allowed to go around the city, North via the Quincentennial bridge, south via Lough Atalia and whatever the lowest bridge is called, the name of which escapes me.

Solicitor on Eglinton street? Dentist on Prospect Hill? Dr on Forster Street? Funeral in the Abbey church? Book club she'd like to attend?

Do you realise that non fully able bodied people exist and might desire to be part of the city they live in too? They're not all old. What about your sister going through chemo/dialysis/MS/any number of illnesses who can't walk much but would like to go to any of the above appointments or just get out of the house to go to lunch or walk through a shop?
Should it just be , "sorry, end of ever being in the city for you now if you cant walk to bus stops easily or pay for taxis, which you probably can as you mightnt be able to work"?