Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

McTigs

Discodog wrote: »

I will sit on a packed single lane ring road with an empty bus lane next to me

this is ridiculous and I hear it so often and I cringe every time. OF COURSE ITS BLOODY EMPTY! What do you want, it filled a big line of buses? Even with the best public transport system in the wide world there would still only be a bus along every 5 minutes so it is always going to look empty.

Open it up to cars and it will just fill up two lanes with cars and the bus will be stuck in regular traffic making taking the bus pointless. Bus lanes are there to make the bus faster than the car, that is the point.

I would however be in favour of opening up the bus lane to trade vehicles and delivery trucks because they aren't really the problem and it would assist local economics..... Single occupancy car commuting is what is the main cause of congestion and should never be let anywhere near the bus lane ever.

Discodog

McTigs wrote: »

this is ridiculous and I hear it so often and I cringe every time. OF COURSE ITS BLOODY EMPTY! What do you want, it filled a big line of buses? Even with the best public transport system in the wide world there would still only be a bus along every 5 minutes so it is always going to look empty.

Open it up to cars and it will just fill up two lanes with cars and the bus will be stuck in regular traffic making taking the bus pointless. Bus lanes are there to make the bus faster than the car, that is the point.

I would however be in favour of opening up the bus lane to trade vehicles and delivery trucks because they aren't really the problem and it would assist local economics..... occupancy car commuting is what is the main cause of congestion and should never be let anywhere near the bus lane ever.

You & everyone else conveniently forget that thousands of people have to cross the City because it's a major route to a big chunk of Ireland. It's like the City want to be the gate keepers for Connemara.
I have sat on the ring road & never seen a bus. I have also see cycle lanes, wide enough for a car with not a bike in site.

How does a hardware store in Carraroe get it's timber, cement etc ? How do the like of B&Q, Aldi etc get their stock ? It all has to cross the City. We want rural businesses to reduce the need for travel to the City & at the same time we will make life impossible for them as their cost of goods will become prohibitive.

The Wild Atlantic Way that stops in Oranmore & resumes in Barna because the middle bit will take you hours. Galway will become the place to avoid. You simply can't reduce traffic through the City without giving it somewhere else to go.

connemara man

In a well somewhat ideal scenario with a ring road all busses using the city centre would get a bus lane so that would be a quicker route for bus passengers. (This is all my theory)

The lay out of Galway reminds me of Auckland city centre surrounded by water one major bridge in and out. There is a dedicated bus corridor with park and rides for all the satellite towns on the other side of the river with its own lane over the bridge. Was great when I was there.

If you make public transport feasible then more people use it and everyone has better use of the roads.

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

You & everyone else conveniently forget that thousands of people have to cross the City because it's a major route to a big chunk of Ireland. It's like the City want to be the gate keepers for Connemara.

If their destination is the city then they don't have to cross the city in cars - and the city should not be expected to let them - thats just silly. Tackling commuter car traffic will free up the roads for people who genuinely have to travel to other destinations.

I have sat on the ring road & never seen a bus. I have also see cycle lanes, wide enough for a car with not a bike in site.

Yes because they were impossible to get because of ridiculous roundabouts put in to suit car commuters from outside the city. The city was held to ransom for you people for years.

How does a hardware store in Carraroe get it's timber, cement etc ? How do the like of B&Q, Aldi etc get their stock ? It all has to cross the City. We want rural businesses to reduce the need for travel to the City & at the same time we will make life impossible for them as their cost of goods will become prohibitive.

With regret complete horse manure - complete smokescreen. Nobody here has suggested restricting commercial traffic in any way shape or form. What is being proposed is to divert car based commuters into other forms of transport so that the roads will function for a range of uses.

The Wild Atlantic Way that stops in Oranmore & resumes in Barna because the middle bit will take you hours. Galway will become the place to avoid. You simply can't reduce traffic through the City without giving it somewhere else to go.

More misrepresentation, nobody has suggested giving any traffic "nowhere to go".

Discodog

connemara man wrote: »

In a well somewhat ideal scenario with a ring road all busses using the city centre would get a bus lane so that would be a quicker route for bus passengers. (This is all my theory)

The lay out of Galway reminds me of Auckland city centre surrounded by water one major bridge in and out. There is a dedicated bus corridor with park and rides for all the satellite towns on the other side of the river with its own lane over the bridge. Was great when I was there.

If you make public transport feasible then more people use it and everyone has better use of the roads.

In Oxford, which I keep mentioning as I believe the Councillors paid a visit, the Park & Ride buses go through the the city centre & along the pedestrianised streets. It works very well. But if you live in the City you have to pay a lot more for your tradesman as he has to buy an permit to enter the City.

connemara man

Discodog wrote: »

In Oxford, which I keep mentioning as I believe the Councillors paid a visit, the Park & Ride buses go through the the city centre & along the pedestrianised streets. It works very well. But if you live in the City you have to pay a lot more for your tradesman as he has to buy an permit to enter the City.

That could be the lesson for deliveries in Galway. Don't charge and better enforcement of delivery times in pedestrianised areas.

I'd drive everywhere if possible. But city centres are no place for traffic ruins the atmosphere.

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

In Oxford, which I keep mentioning as I believe the Councillors paid a visit, the Park & Ride buses go through the the city centre & along the pedestrianised streets. It works very well. But if you live in the City you have to pay a lot more for your tradesman as he has to buy an permit to enter the City.

Exactly it works because Oxford made a decision to restrict car traffic. In Oxford undergraduate students are not permitted to bring cars on campus. We do it the other way - we force students into cars. We allow them to take over housing estates and side roads with their cars so they save on parking fees.

This makes sense how?

Tradesmen should be required to have a permit. The number of them that park on footpaths in the city is shocking - even when there is a parking space beside the road.

I would welcome a means to ban such people from trading in the city. It would free the market up for tradesman with more morals and more respect.

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes because they were impossible to get because of ridiculous roundabouts put in to suit car commuters from outside the city. The city was held to ransom for you people for years.

With regret complete horse manure - complete smokescreen. Nobody here has suggested restricting commercial traffic in any way shape or form. What is being proposed is to divert car based commuters into other forms of transport so that the roads will function for a range of uses.

More misrepresentation, nobody has suggested giving any traffic "nowhere to go".

"You people" is a lovely term for the tens of thousands who live in Connemara or who want to visit it. I could use similar derisory terms for cyclists who cause queues on the Coast Road every day - lots of people held up by one bike.

Commercial vehicles will be allowed but how do you identify them ? Not every tradesman is in a logoed van. So you need permits & they will cost money. You also need enforcement which also costs money. How about car park type barriers with toll booths ?

The bypass is years away if it ever happens. The cars that cross the city will have to go on less road space. The Council will use the delays & traffic jams to force people off the road - meanwhile business & tourism grind to a halt.

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Exactly it works because Oxford made a decision to restrict car traffic. In Oxford undergraduate students are not permitted to bring cars on campus. We do it the other way - we force students into cars. We allow them to take over housing estates and side roads with their cars so they save on parking fees.

This makes sense how?

Tradesmen should be required to have a permit. The number of them that park on footpaths in the city is shocking - even when there is a parking space beside the road.

I would welcome a means to ban such people from trading in the city. It would free the market up for tradesman with more morals and more respect.

They didn't restrict traffic until they had built a proper by pass.

More morals & more respect will cost the customers a lot more. I can remember when some Oxford residents literally couldn't get a tradesman As they couldn't be arsed to pay for permits.

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

"You people" is a lovely term for the tens of thousands who live in Connemara or who want to visit it. I could use similar derisory terms for cyclists who cause queues on the Coast Road every day - lots of people held up by one bike.

Actually the population of Connemara only about 30,000. Do you think their taxes actually cover the cost of the coast road? Or could it be that the coast road exists because of other peoples taxes - such as those cyclists?

Now you want the Irish taxpayer to blow EU500,000,000 or more (16,000 each for every man, woman and child) for a road to serve that portion of the 30,000 who travel to the city daily?

Greedy much?

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

They didn't restrict traffic until they had built a proper by pass.

Are you telling us Oxford built a bypass for 30,000 people - with no industry to speak of?

McTigs

Discodog wrote: »

You & everyone else conveniently forget that thousands of people have to cross the City because it's a major route to a big chunk of Ireland. It's like the City want to be the gate keepers for Connemara.
I have sat on the ring road & never seen a bus. I have also see cycle lanes, wide enough for a car with not a bike in site.

How does a hardware store in Carraroe get it's timber, cement etc ? How do the like of B&Q, Aldi etc get their stock ? It all has to cross the City. We want rural businesses to reduce the need for travel to the City & at the same time we will make life impossible for them as their cost of goods will become prohibitive.

The Wild Atlantic Way that stops in Oranmore & resumes in Barna because the middle bit will take you hours. Galway will become the place to avoid. You simply can't reduce traffic through the City without giving it somewhere else to go.

how does a hardware store in carraroe get its timber? How does b&b get its stock? Did you even read my post? I said I would be in favour of opening the bus lane to commercial vehicles and delivery trucks.

You can't reduce traffic through the city without giving it somewhere else to go? When did I ever say that I am not in favour of a bypass?

I stand by what I said, single occupancy car use is the cause of congestion and should not be afforded anymore space than it already gets just because people are too terrified of the slightest inconvenience to car share, too snobby to take a Bus or too lazy to cycle

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Are you telling us Oxford built a bypass for 30,000 people - with no industry to speak of?

I looked it up for you. The Oxford ring road was made up of sections of two major strategic trunk roads.

The A40 which was the main route linking London to Fishguard

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A40_road

The A34 which is the main trunk route linking the port of Southampton (population 250,000 [city] metro area 1.5million) with the midlands - Birmingham, Manchester etc (populations 1.1 million and 550, 000 not including metro areas.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A34_road

So we are to understand that Connemara (population 30, 000), with no industry or wealth creation to speak of, is entitled to have the Irish taxpayer build a road of similar character so that some of them - the ones causing the traffic jams - can leave their cars sitting doing nothing in a "particular" spot for eight hours a day?

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Totally agree but my view doesn't count because I don't live in the City. I am the pariah who needs to get to the City to work or cross the City. I will sit on a packed single lane ring road with an empty bus lane next to me.

+100. Bus lanes are a joke, they should all be opened up to traffic, twice the flow of traffic could get through if they weren't left empty for bloody busses.

Also people who commute from outside the city are just as entitled to a say in the city cetre traffic plan as those living in the city. If you want a nice quiet, congestion free place to live then live in the country side, it's heaven by the way. If you want to live in a city then tough luck you have to put up with traffic and poeople driving in from outside the city.

J.pilkington

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

+100. Bus lanes are a joke, they should all be opened up to traffic, twice the flow of traffic could get through if they weren't left empty for bloody busses.

.

Let's take the renmore bus lane, you say open it up to cars, what will this achieve only bring cars towards a congested junction in a quicker fashion but the wait at the junction will be twice as long as two lanes of cars now try filter through the same restricted space. Now buses take twice as long so less people use them and instead they take cars increasing congestion. Another knock on impact of your idea is buses take longer so frequency is reduced again reducing the appeal

Same applies to most bus lanes in Galway. They do actually work getting cars off the road

I'm in favour of the bypass like you (except I think once we have the bypass then apply the traffic restrictions to the city not until then), however your arguments are so illogical I think you are turning people off the bypass because they think most car people have your narrow minded (simplistic) attitude

Discodog

J.pilkington wrote: »

Let's take the renmore bus lane, you say open it up to cars, what will this achieve only bring cars towards a congested junction in a quicker fashion but the wait at the junction will be twice as long as two lanes of cars now try filter through the same restricted space. Now buses take twice as long so less people use them and instead they take cars increasing congestion. Another knock on impact of your idea is buses take longer so frequency is reduced again reducing the appeal

Same applies to most bus lanes in Galway. They do actually work getting cars off the road

I'm in favour of the bypass like you (except I think once we have the bypass then apply the traffic restrictions to the city not until then), however your arguments are so illogical I think you are turning people off the bypass because they think most car people have your narrow minded (simplistic) attitude

Once past Knocknacara there are only 4 or 5 buses per day. People can't leave the car at home because their isn't an alternative. Bus lanes can only reduce the cars if there are buses.

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Actually the population of Connemara only about 30,000. Do you think their taxes actually cover the cost of the coast road? Or could it be that the coast road exists because of other peoples taxes - such as those cyclists?

Now you want the Irish taxpayer to blow EU500,000,000 or more (16,000 each for every man, woman and child) for a road to serve that portion of the 30,000 who travel to the city daily?

Greedy much?

A bypass will serve at least 50% of the City plus all the tourists that visit Connemara. It will also free up far more of the City & make your cycling more pleasant.

There is this bizarre idea that motorists want to sit in hours of traffic. I drive through town because the existing ring road was reduced from two lanes to one & is often a car park. If the ring road was quicker then I would use it as would everyone else.

You can't force people onto buses that don't exist. You can't make people use a Park & Ride that doesn't exist. This is a classic case of cart before the horse. You have to provide the alternatives before closing roads.

You just want to force people off the road.

talking_walnut

Discodog wrote: »

Once past Knocknacara there are only 4 or 5 buses per day. People can't leave the car at home because their isn't an alternative. Bus lanes can only reduce the cars if there are buses.

That's because that's the outer limits of the high population density. That's always going to be a problem. No bus company is going to run a service every 30 mins to an area where they might get 30 people over the space of a day. Park and rides are designed to take care of that.

Discodog wrote: »

A bypass will serve at least 50% of the City plus all the tourists that visit Connemara. It will also free up far more of the City & make your cycling more pleasant.

There is this bizarre idea that motorists want to sit in hours of traffic. I drive through town because the existing ring road was reduced from two lanes to one & is often a car park. If the ring road was quicker then I would use it as would everyone else.

You can't force people onto buses that don't exist. You can't make people use a Park & Ride that doesn't exist. This is a classic case of cart before the horse. You have to provide the alternatives before closing roads.

You just want to force people off the road.

They can't improve the bus service because there's no/inconsistent bus lanes. People drive because the bus is too slow and unreliable. They can't rezone the roads for bus lanes because traffic is too bad, etc. etc. It's a cyclical thing.

They have to decide where to start. It'll probably be with the bypass because people would be up in arms otherwise, but it would be a lot quicker, simpler and easier to implement improved public transport with bus lanes, etc. Knowing that they could get door-to-door, home-to-work in 30mins or less on the bus would make a lot of people switch to it. If you were coming from the country, it would be home->park&ride->work.

Tradesmen, delivery drivers, etc. would still need to drive and should be accommodated. But they shouldn't have to sit in lines of single occupancy cars either. I dunno how they get stuff done in the day as it is.

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

There is this bizarre idea that motorists want to sit in hours of traffic. I drive through town because the existing ring road was reduced from two lanes to one & is often a car park. If the ring road was quicker then I would use it as would everyone else.

You should not be permitted to drive through the centre of town. What has happened is that single car commuter traffic has grown to consume all the road space on the existing ring road. So the lesson to be learned is not to allow single car commuters to take road capacity from all other road users.

You just want to force people off the road.

Single car commuters have deprived all other road users of a facility - public roads - that was provided for the whole community. Single car commuters are blocking out walking, cycling, public transport, commercial traffic, deliveries, emergency services, trades people.

These people all have rights too, they all pay taxes too. They should not be obstructed in going about their lawful business so you can park your car where you want when you want.

FortySeven

galwaycyclist wrote: »

You should not be permitted to drive through the centre of town. What has happened is that single car commuter traffic has grown to consume all the road space on the existing ring road. So the lesson to be learned is not to allow single car commuters to take road capacity from all other road users.



Single car commuters have deprived all other road users of a facility - public roads - that was provided for the whole community. Single car commuters are blocking out walking, cycling, public transport, commercial traffic, deliveries, emergency services, trades people.

These people all have rights too, they all pay taxes too. They should not be obstructed in going about their lawful business so you can park your car where you want when you want.

We get it. You don't like cars. Thankfully most of us do and you can bluster on about your personal issue while we got on with getting our bypass built. Well throw you a few cycle lanes to nowhere.

Your attitude almost makes me want to buy a diesel just to blow clouds of black smoke at you.

Mrs OBumble

Discodog wrote: »

You just want to force people off the road.

Galwaycyclist may not want to do that. But actually - I do. Not an an individual level, that's just dumb. But on a population level, I certainly believe we need to far more to limit demand. For example:

A payroll tax based on the average distance between people's homes and their regular place of work would encourage companies to hire local whenever possible.

Incentives to shops to delivery groceries to people.

Not allowing new areas to be developed without including local schools.

Moving existing schools to where people live.

And many more measures that I've not even thought of.

talking_walnut

I don't mean to thread-jack, but I posted a thread here about a survey NUIG are doing to look at mobility and transport in Galway. Should only take about 5mins to fill out.

FortySeven

talking_walnut wrote: »

I don't mean to thread-jack, but I posted a thread here about a survey NUIG are doing to look at mobility and transport in Galway. Should only take about 5mins to fill out.

Tried it but it's glitchy. In the end it failed to complete.

cgcsb

Why are people comparing Galway to Oxford? Oxford is just off the main London-Manchester,Liverpool,Birmingham,Glasgow, North Wales road. Not to mention inter regional journeys that go through/near Oxford. There is a massive amount of journey demand from one side of it to another. Galway City connects the rest of Ireland to Conemara, a sparse region to say the least, beyond that is the Atlantic Ocean, popoulation 0.

Conemara only has 32,000 people, even if half of them wanted to cross Galway in their cars to the rest of Ireland in a single day, a single carriageway road is sufficient for the 16,000 AADT.

The problem here is people commuting from one part of Galway City to another, not Conemara-rest of Ireland journeys.

talking_walnut

FortySeven wrote: »

Tried it but it's glitchy. In the end it failed to complete.

Sorry about that. It worked for me when I did it. I'm not involved with the research/survey so can't provide any help/feedback. Just thought it was a good fit for this thread

ben.schlomo

talking_walnut wrote: »

Sorry about that. It worked for me when I did it. I'm not involved with the research/survey so can't provide any help/feedback. Just thought it was a good fit for this thread

Worked fine for me, very quick, good set of questions too.

galwaycyclist

FortySeven wrote: »

We get it. You don't like cars. Thankfully most of us do and you can bluster on about your personal issue while we got on with getting our bypass built. Well throw you a few cycle lanes to nowhere.

Your attitude almost makes me want to buy a diesel just to blow clouds of black smoke at you.

Again what is it about the "bypass supporters" on this thread that so many of you seem to feel some need to misrepresent other peoples arguments?

Here is what I said

Single car commuters have deprived all other road users of a facility - public roads - that was provided for the whole community. Single car commuters are blocking out walking, cycling, public transport, commercial traffic, deliveries, emergency services, trades people.

I could have added in people doing their shopping by car etc. Do you think I do the weekly shop by car or by bike? Do you think I pick up bags of bark chips from Woodies by car or by bike? Do you think I collect white goods from Argos etc by car or by bike?

When I and others want to do these things in our cars why should we be constantly blocked by people who have no need to use their cars in the city?

Why is it that you insist in misrepresenting the management of car-commuter traffic as including restrictions on all other forms of car use?

Bit egotistical? Your "needs" as a car commuter are everybody's needs?

I have news for you - they aren't - there are other road users out there.

pleasant Co.

Not to single anyone out but cool yer jets lads, I know it's gloriously hot thanks to this wonderful weather but I'm feeling the need to pour some icey cool water on this heated exchange. Speak to each other with civility, you're not in the dail and we do expect y'all to respect one another even in disagreement

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

You should not be permitted to drive through the centre of town. What has happened is that single car commuter traffic has grown to consume all the road space on the existing ring road. So the lesson to be learned is not to allow single car commuters to take road capacity from all other road users.

.

I am a tradesman :rolleyes:

So your rant was wasted.

Discodog

talking_walnut wrote: »

They have to decide where to start. It'll probably be with the bypass because people would be up in arms otherwise, but it would be a lot quicker, simpler and easier to implement improved public transport with bus lanes, etc. Knowing that they could get door-to-door, home-to-work in 30mins or less on the bus would make a lot of people switch to it. If you were coming from the country, it would be home->park&ride->work.

Tradesmen, delivery drivers, etc. would still need to drive and should be accommodated. But they shouldn't have to sit in lines of single occupancy cars either. I dunno how they get stuff done in the day as it is.

There is no chance of a bypass until Galway has ground to a halt. Yes Park & Ride is a good option but the Council show no signs of putting it in place before they close roads.

People don't sit in traffic for fun. If someone lives in Barna & works in one of the Industrial areas they would have to drive to the Park & Ride, then get another bus out to their workplace. Knowing Galway the cost would be three times that of using the car. Then add in unsocial hours when the buses don't run, bad weather etc.

You don't get people off the road by forcing them. You do it by offering an attractive alternative.