Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

Discodog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Galwaycyclist may not want to do that. But actually - I do. Not an an individual level, that's just dumb. But on a population level, I certainly believe we need to far more to limit demand. For example:

A payroll tax based on the average distance between people's homes and their regular place of work would encourage companies to hire local whenever possible.

Incentives to shops to delivery groceries to people.

Not allowing new areas to be developed without including local schools.

Moving existing schools to where people live.

And many more measures that I've not even thought of.

The EU & human rights courts would love that one. Discrimination based on where you live.

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

I am a tradesman :rolleyes:

So your rant was wasted.

So why are you complaining? You are one of the people who would benefit directly from diverting single-car commuters into other transport modes.

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

There is no chance of a bypass until Galway has ground to a halt. Yes Park & Ride is a good option but the Council show no signs of putting it in place before they close roads.

Actually the problem is the opposite. Every indication is that they want to build the orbital ring road first. If they do that then that will eliminate much of the potential customer base for park and ride. Since they will make it more convenient for people to drive.

You don't get people off the road by forcing them. You do it by offering an attractive alternative.

Nobody is forcing car-commuters off the road but themselves. Unfortunately they are blocking everybody else out as well. You cannot create a more attractive alternative if you start out by trying to make single-car commuting as attractive as possible.

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So why are you complaining? You are one of the people who would benefit directly from diverting single-car commuters into other transport modes.

How are they going to identify tradesmen ? I use a car. I am one of those that you assume to be a single occupancy commuter.

The likely result will be permits - the Council won't waste an opportunity to make money & then you will pay more.

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Actually the problem is the opposite. Every indication is that they want to build the orbital ring road first. If they do that then that will eliminate much of the potential customer base for park and ride. Since they will make it more convenient for people to drive.



Nobody is forcing car-commuters off the road but themselves. Unfortunately they are blocking everybody else out as well. You cannot create a more attractive alternative if you start out by trying to make single-car commuting as attractive as possible.

By creating traffic jams ? How is that attractive for the motorists ?

maudgonner

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Actually the problem is the opposite. Every indication is that they want to build the orbital ring road first. If they do that then that will eliminate much of the potential customer base for park and ride. Since they will make it more convenient for people to drive.

I don't know the exact plans for park-and-ride, but I would imagine it's complimentary to the ring-road rather than conflicting. Similar to the Red Cow P&R in Dublin - you take the ring-road to get to the park & ride base, then take public transport to your final destination within the ring-road. Have I got it wrong?

Surely that's much more feasible? Otherwise there would either have to be P&R facilities on every major approach road, which seems like overkill, or people would still have to drive across the city, to some degree, to get to a P&R, which would defeat the purpose.

If implemented properly, (and I know that's a big if), the ring road should make P&R a more attractive proposition for commuters, rather than less, surely?

Discodog

maudgonner wrote: »

I don't know the exact plans for park-and-ride, but I would imagine it's complimentary to the ring-road rather than conflicting. Similar to the Red Cow P&R in Dublin - you take the ring-road to get to the park & ride base, then take public transport to your final destination within the ring-road. Have I got it wrong?

Surely that's much more feasible? Otherwise there would either have to be P&R facilities on every major approach road, which seems like overkill, or people would still have to drive across the city, to some degree, to get to a P&R, which would defeat the purpose.

If implemented properly, (and I know that's a big if), the ring road should make P&R a more attractive proposition for commuters, rather than less, surely?

Exactly. The idea should be that you have two or possibly three Park & Ride carparks on the bypass.

I seems to recall reading something where the Council said that they were going to proceed with the plan. Have they said in what order ?

gordongekko

Discodog wrote: »

Exactly. The idea should be that you have two or possibly three Park & Ride carparks on the bypass.

I seems to recall reading something where the Council said that they were going to proceed with the plan. Have they said in what order ?

how much would it cost to run a train to oranmore every 15 mins 7am till 10am and about 4 till 7pm?

Mrs OBumble

Discodog wrote: »

How are they going to identify tradesmen ? I use a car. I am one of those that you assume to be a single occupancy commuter.

The likely result will be permits - the Council won't waste an opportunity to make money & then you will pay more.

I would imagine the same way it happens now in the city centre: residents can buy visitors tickets which give unlimited on-street parking in local streets for E2.50 per day. We can give these to friends, tradespeople - even to ourselves to use on rental or work vehicles.

If your city centre customers aren't giving you these, you should be passing on the actual cost of parking to them.

galwaycyclist

maudgonner wrote: »

I don't know the exact plans for park-and-ride, but I would imagine it's complimentary to the ring-road rather than conflicting. Similar to the Red Cow P&R in Dublin - you take the ring-road to get to the park & ride base, then take public transport to your final destination within the ring-road. Have I got it wrong?

Surely that's much more feasible? Otherwise there would either have to be P&R facilities on every major approach road, which seems like overkill, or people would still have to drive across the city, to some degree, to get to a P&R, which would defeat the purpose.

If implemented properly, (and I know that's a big if), the ring road should make P&R a more attractive proposition for commuters, rather than less, surely?

Yes that would be a reasonable observation for a circular city with commuter destinations concentrated within the city proper. And yes there needs to be multiple Park and Ride sites spread out radially and accessible from major corridors into the city.

The problem with Galway is that it is likely that key destinations, such as Parkmore, Ballybrit would be effectively on the new "ring" road. So likely much of the traffic arriving at the ring road has the ring road as its final destination***. So why would you then go to a Park and Ride site to get a bus that is going to another location along the ring road?

I would say this is more likely a confounding factor for commuters whose accommodation is west of the Corrib. The only way you could make that work as I see it would be to force Parkmore, Boston Scientific etc to remove all car parking.

Otherwise your investment in public transport will go up in smoke.

*** but if nothing is done to make it possible for children to travel safely to school independently then much of that traffic will be going into the city first on the "school run" before heading back to the ring route.

Which is where people like councillor Pearse Flannery - who is trying to block safe walking access to the Knocknacarra national school - come in.

McTigs

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Which is where people like councillor Pearse Flannery - who is trying to block safe walking access to the Knocknacarra national school - come in.

Can you elaborate on this?

galwaycyclist

McTigs wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this?

http://connachttribune.ie/high-court-threat-over-vote-to-have-greenway-through-estate-2100/

Also before it comes up I don't buy the antisocial behaviour at night argument. If that is the problem then why are they locking the gate to primary schoolchildren during the day?

Either the fundamental problem is antisocial behaviour at night or it isnt.

talking_walnut

galwaycyclist wrote: »

*** but if nothing is done to make it possible for children to travel safely to school independently then much of that traffic will be going into the city first on the "school run" before heading back to the ring route.

Ya the school runs seem to be a big one. Door-to-door with the kids. The areas around schools are a scary place to be in the mornings and afternoons. Cars everywhere with stressed drivers. Everybody looks like they woke up 10 mins ago and should have been in work 60 mins ago .

what_traffic

Front page on today's City Tribune

http://connachttribune.ie/city-council-targets-three-key-routes-bus-priority-measures-401/
"
Creating thoroughfares restricted to public transport on Eglinton Street, College Road as well as the Salmon Weir Bridge will be among the preferred options presented to councillors soon as part of the Galway Transportation Strategy.
"

spurscormac

what_traffic wrote: »

Front page on today's City Tribune

http://connachttribune.ie/city-council-targets-three-key-routes-bus-priority-measures-401/
"
Creating thoroughfares restricted to public transport on Eglinton Street, College Road as well as the Salmon Weir Bridge will be among the preferred options presented to councillors soon as part of the Galway Transportation Strategy.
"

“Lough Atalia will likely stay two-way because we don’t want HGVs (Heavy Goods Vehicles) coming up the Fairgreen from the Port, but College Road could be prioritised as a bus route, with local access for residents and B&B occupants by way of an automatic barrier.”

They haven't really thought this through fully. How does someone staying at a B&B get access through the automated barrier?
How about visitors to private houses?

Is every house going to have remote access to buzz people through a barrier?
What about people tailgating?

what_traffic

spurscormac wrote: »

“Lough Atalia will likely stay two-way because we don’t want HGVs (Heavy Goods Vehicles) coming up the Fairgreen from the Port, but College Road could be prioritised as a bus route, with local access for residents and B&B occupants by way of an automatic barrier.”

They haven't really thought this through fully. How does someone staying at a B&B get access through the automated barrier?
How about visitors to private houses?

Is every house going to have remote access to buzz people through a barrier?
What about people tailgating?

Agree - perhaps a journalistic mistake/misunderstanding?
I would say the buses would have the buzzer for the barrier. That's what happens in Manchester were they have a similar system in the City Centre.

Unrealistic

spurscormac wrote: »

“Lough Atalia will likely stay two-way because we don’t want HGVs (Heavy Goods Vehicles) coming up the Fairgreen from the Port, but College Road could be prioritised as a bus route, with local access for residents and B&B occupants by way of an automatic barrier.”

They haven't really thought this through fully. How does someone staying at a B&B get access through the automated barrier?
How about visitors to private houses?

Is every house going to have remote access to buzz people through a barrier?
What about people tailgating?

There would be costs involved but there are a number of easy solutions. There are plenty of off the shelf products based on number plate recognition. Each house gets one or two permanent slots and also an online account that allows them to add visitors (maybe with a capped annual limit or pay for extras if you are a B&B). Tailgating can easily be addressed, as it was on the M50, by installing rear facing cameras and fining those caught doing it.

Bobeagleburger

I'd love to see the city traffic free. But only if there was suitable transport in place.

The chances of that happening is close to zero.

what_traffic

RoboKlopp wrote: »

I'd love to see the city traffic free. But only if there was suitable transport in place.

The chances of that happening is close to zero.

Would not be so pessimistic. Bus usage no's in Galway have grown over the past 10 years. Look at the #409 service. If Car traffic was curtailed on certain City Streets will make the bus services even more attractive. If Galway City is to grow, it is the only option.

I truly hope this laughable suggestion never sees the light of day.

Anne Handsome Sawhorse

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

I truly hope this laughable suggestion never sees the light of day.

What would you suggest as an alternative?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What would you suggest as an alternative?

No solution that prevents people from driving around the city is acceptable that's for sure.

Efforts should be put into fast tracking the bypass rather than wasting time with these suggestions that will do nothing but inconvenience and annoy the vast majority of people in Galway (of course they will be championed by the anti-car brigade :rolleyes:).

xckjoo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

No solution that prevents people from driving around the city is acceptable that's for sure.

Efforts should be put into fast tracking the bypass rather than wasting time with these suggestions that will do nothing but inconvenience and annoy the vast majority of people in Galway (of course they will be championed by the anti-car brigade :rolleyes:).

Why do you need to drive in the city? Do your legs not work?

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Why do you need to drive in the city? Do your legs not work?

Because I drive in from outside the city and want to get around when I'm in there and have my car with me when going to different shops or other places. Walking is for going around the shops not actually travelling around in the city or across the city etc.

Anne Handsome Sawhorse

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

No solution that prevents people from driving around the city is acceptable that's for sure.

Efforts should be put into fast tracking the bypass rather than wasting time with these suggestions that will do nothing but inconvenience and annoy the vast majority of people in Galway (of course they will be championed by the anti-car brigade :rolleyes:).

I am a driver, have no option due to where I live, but even I know that Galway needs to change. It's not sustainable to keep going how we are. The small roads have a max capacity which has been reached and cannot be exceeded if you are only prioritising private cars.

To increase the capacity you have to switch the priority to pedestrians, cyclists and public transport.

It's as simple as that to be honest and has little to do pro or anti car

xckjoo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Because I drive in from outside the city and want to get around when I'm in there and have my car with me when going to different shops or other places. Walking is for going around the shops not actually travelling around in the city or across the city etc.

Park, walk to shops, walk back to car, go elsewhere. I don't see what the problem is if you've no physical disability.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Park, walk to shops, walk back to car, go elsewhere. I don't see what the problem is if you've no physical disability.

Because its a waste of time and effort which I have no interest in, that's not even talking into account the weather. Also what if you need the car close by for bigger items or multiple items etc. Its a massive inconvenience no matter how you try to dress it up and make silly comments like "sure are't you able to walk".

However it is true that someone with a disability or the elderly will suffer even more hardship with these sorts of nonsense rules are brought in as if its closed to cars its closed to cars regardless of who is inside.

Subcomandante Marcos

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Because its a waste of time and effort which I have no interest in

So basically, you're too lazy to walk a few hundred yards?

Galway is tiny, you can walk from sea road to bohermore in 20 minutes, that across the entire city centre in less time than it takes to drink a cup of coffee.

xckjoo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Because its a waste of time and effort which I have no interest in, that's not even talking into account the weather. Also what if you need the car close by for bigger items or multiple items etc. Its a massive inconvenience no matter how you try to dress it up and make silly comments like "sure are't you able to walk".

However it is true that someone with a disability or the elderly will suffer even more hardship with these sorts of nonsense rules are brought in as if its closed to cars its closed to cars regardless of who is inside.

But being stuck in traffic all the time is a bigger waste of time and effort. When I do need to car for bigger items I'm stuck in traffic with all those people driving to the shop for the newspaper. That's a far bigger inconvenience than walking. The fresh air and exercise might actually do people some good.

This is especially true for older people or people with a disability. They don't have the luxury to choose between walking, taking the bus and driving if they can't stand for prolonged periods of time. But the roads are all clogged by people who could walk instead.

McTigs

Yeah I'm not anti car either (I have a car) but there is no question single occupancy is clogging up our roads and has to be penalised. All the ring roads in the world won't change the fact that people are using the car for journeys of less than 2k.

We need to arrange our town so that kids can cycle safely or take a bus to school, so that taking a bus is an attractive option for people going to work and so that people don't spend half thei day sitting in traffic.

This can only be done by penalising/disincentivising single occupancy car use and ignoring the "I want my convenience" brigade.