Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

schemingbohemia

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So basically, you're too lazy to walk a few hundred yards?

Galway is tiny, you can walk from sea road to bohermore in 20 minutes, that across the entire city centre in less time than it takes to drink a cup of coffee.

You're arguing with someone who is too lazy to queue for a toilet and pisses in people's gardens, not much point in being logical.

what_traffic

McTigs wrote: »

We need to arrange our town so that kids can cycle safely or take a bus to school, so that taking a bus is an attractive option for people going to work and so that people don't spend half the day sitting in traffic.

School bus transport is a big issue that needs to be addressed in the City alright. Perhaps we can speculate at how closing Salmon Weir Bridge would effect the schools in its vicinity? By taking out the private CAR traffic would make it a far more more pleasant environment for children walking or cycling. Also will reduce the Car traffic that clogs up the bus routes from the West of the City.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

? By taking out the private CAR traffic would make it a far more more pleasant environment for children walking or cycling.

I'm not sure that's true.

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm not sure that's true.

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

Fewer cars won't make me cycle any faster, just makes the road safer.

Grassey

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm not sure that's true.

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

Would the pedestrians also be using the now freed up roads?

Subcomandante Marcos

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm not sure that's true.

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

This is absolute nonsense.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

Interesting perspective. Actually probably correct on faster speeds at peak times on these roads. But that would be for all modes. Re danger - what statistics are you using and are they national or local?

Digital Solitude

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm not sure that's true.

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

Ah now, most people wouldn't cycle faster than 15 or 20km/h, how in the name of god is that more dangerous than having more cars on the road.

D Trent

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Ah now, most people wouldn't cycle faster than 15 or 20km/h, how in the name of god is that more dangerous than having more cars on the road.

Might be more dangerous for the cyclist ..
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/cyclist-dies-after-collision-with-pedestrian-in-phoenix-park-1.2636430%3Fmode%3Damp

45mhrc7evo1d3n

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

Law-abiding pedestrians are not endangered by law-abiding cyclists. Unfortunately, law-abiding cyclists are frequently put at risk by pedestrians crossing the road without looking. Twice in the last week my OH very narrowly escaped serious injury when pedestrians just stepped onto the road in front of him without checking to see if it was safe to cross.

youngrun

McTigs wrote: »

Yeah I'm not anti car either (I have a car) but there is no question single occupancy is clogging up our roads and has to be penalised. All the ring roads in the world won't change the fact that people are using the car for journeys of less than 2k.

We need to arrange our town so that kids can cycle safely or take a bus to school, so that taking a bus is an attractive option for people going to work and so that people don't spend half thei day sitting in traffic.

This can only be done by penalising/disincentivising single occupancy car use and ignoring the "I want my convenience" brigade.

This is bang on and exactly what the city needs to do . An aside but you would expect the TDs /Mayor etc to really champion traffic improvement. Is it that difficult to implement a number of park and rides on vacant lots owned by Councils, route buses over the QCB, have a couple of school buses serving secondary schools in Kcarra/Taylors Hill, Town etc, and close off a couple of city streets to traffic?

xckjoo

youngrun wrote: »

This is bang on and exactly what the city needs to do . An aside but you would expect the TDs /Mayor etc to really champion traffic improvement. Is it that difficult to implement a number of park and rides on vacant lots owned by Councils, route buses over the QCB, have a couple of school buses serving secondary schools in Kcarra/Taylors Hill, Town etc, and close off a couple of city streets to traffic?

There's a belief among local business owners that removing cars from the city will stop people shopping in the city* so councilors will rarely come out strongly in support proposals that can be seen as "anti-car".



*research actually shows that decreased car usage causes increased footfall and an increase in sales

ben.schlomo

Clayton Refined Servitude wrote: »

Law-abiding pedestrians are not endangered by law-abiding cyclists. Unfortunately, law-abiding cyclists are frequently put at risk by pedestrians crossing the road without looking. Twice in the last week my OH very narrowly escaped serious injury when pedestrians just stepped onto the road in front of him without checking to see if it was safe to cross.

Pedestrians stepping onto the road without looking and bad drivers are regular on my daily cycle.

what_traffic

For more detailed reading on the proposal.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Appendix%20D%20Public%20Transport%20Infrastructure%20Development.pdf

See page D8 - D10

45mhrc7evo1d3n

what_traffic wrote: »

For more detailed reading on the proposal.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Appendix%20D%20Public%20Transport%20Infrastructure%20Development.pdf

See page D8 - D10

Thanks for that, very interesting. Does anyone happen to know what the orange-red dashes mean on some of the satellite-view maps? The document doesn't provide the key to the meaning of this colour whereas it does say yellow=bike, blue=bus etc.

martinkop

Think that just highlights the route in question of nothing planned for it.

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Fewer cars = faster moving cyclists in my experience, and that makes life more dangerous for pedestrians.

Seriously? Because cyclists kill and injure much more people than cars do in Galway?

*waiting for the anecdotal evidence now.

the_galway_fry

ah yes i totally trust the people who play roundabout lights hokey pokey every other year, who oversaw a small stretch of road in westside take over 2 years to complete and made traffic worse.
of course they will get this right too.

youngrun

the_galway_fry wrote: »

ah yes i totally trust the people who play roundabout lights hokey pokey every other year, who oversaw a small stretch of road in westside take over 2 years to complete and made traffic worse.
of course they will get this right too.

Traffic much improved Westside of city , slow given volume but moves.
Roundabouts= logjams and cars dont move.
More cars=more traffic. When will people realise this?
Simple answer is more buses, more out of cars, or more high rise building in city so no cars needed.
http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/93534/open-data-and-open-roads-how-data-can-show-the-value-of-road-improvements-around-galway

Unrealistic

the_galway_fry wrote: »

who oversaw a small stretch of road in westside take over 2 years to complete and made traffic worse.

I drive and cycle this stretch of road frequently (more driving than cycling) and my perception is that the new road is a significant improvement.

the_galway_fry

well i disagree.
previous to the new road it would be busy in the morning and the evening.
now it seems to be permanently slow unless you are very lucky and certainly not a 'significant improvement'

what_traffic

the_galway_fry wrote: »

well i disagree.
previous to the new road it would be busy in the morning and the evening.
now it seems to be permanently slow unless you are very lucky and certainly not a 'significant improvement'

Ya now Galway City has an extra 5/6 thousand residents plus more jobs in the City than ever so not all that surprising.
Also I guess you are just talking about private car users though? Right?
Efficiency of road has certainly increased if you look at all modes combined, far more people cycle on the SQR/BOD road, far more people use the buses but if you are looking at it from a car windscreen perspective can understand why you would have the impression of it not been a 'significant improvement'

Mrs OBumble

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

This is absolute nonsense.

So my experience is "absolute nonsense"? Thanks for sharing that perspective.

what_traffic wrote: »

Interesting perspective. Actually probably correct on faster speeds at peak times on these roads. But that would be for all modes. Re danger - what statistics are you using and are they national or local?

As stated "in my experience". I haven't compiled statistics on the topic, just pointing out my observation.

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Ah now, most people wouldn't cycle faster than 15 or 20km/h, how in the name of god is that more dangerous than having more cars on the road.

More cars = slower travel.

If a pedestrian gets hit by a cyclist doing 20km/h, most likely either of them will die (unless they're unlucky and land head first). But either have potentiao to get some nasty injuries.

Clayton Refined Servitude wrote: »

Law-abiding pedestrians are not endangered by law-abiding cyclists. Unfortunately, law-abiding cyclists are frequently put at risk by pedestrians crossing the road without looking. Twice in the last week my OH very narrowly escaped serious injury when pedestrians just stepped onto the road in front of him without checking to see if it was safe to cross.

Correct, law-abiding cyclists aren't a danger, and aren't the issue. However many cyclists aren't law-abiding.

Personally, these days before I step out of any bus, I always look in both directions because of they number of near-missed I've had with people using bicycles on the footpath.

Some pedestrians will behave unpredictably, because they are too young to know better, or have a health condition which impact their judgement. In some cases, that's why they are pedestrians not vehicle users. That's why the road-use laws put the onus on vehicle users to take responsibility for safety.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Seriously? Because cyclists kill and injure much more people than cars do in Galway?

*waiting for the anecdotal evidence now.

It's not a valid comparison, and not relevant to the point either.

Just because bicycles don't do something at the same intensity as cars do it, that doesn't mean that the level bicycles do it at is OK.

If cars were removed from the streets, it would likely be necessary to put in vehicle-calming measures to stop buses and bicycles from moving faster.

Unrealistic

the_galway_fry wrote: »

well i disagree.
previous to the new road it would be busy in the morning and the evening.
now it seems to be permanently slow unless you are very lucky and certainly not a 'significant improvement'

Yep, if you improve a road more cars will choose to use it. That's a pretty basic principle.

And, as was already pointed out, the number of cars on the city's roads jumped between the start and finish of the road works. Unemployment peaked in the years leading up to the project and the recovery was well under way when the roadworks were finished. On the approach to the city I'm most familiar with the traffic went from being backed up for about 600m to get on to the Headford Road during the Celtic Tiger years to only having a queue of 7-10 cars around 2010 and 2011. By the second half of 2012 it was starting to back up again. It's not surprising, I think, that the same would be seen on the west side of the city.

Grassey

Mrs OBumble wrote:

If cars were removed from the streets, it would likely be necessary to put in vehicle-calming measures to stop buses and bicycles from moving faster.

Do you mean like an upper urban speed limit of.... 50km/h.... Or maybe like in parts of Dublin... 30km/h limits... Both should be easy to observe in bus or bike given that pedestrians now won't be darting across the less busy roads and using pedestrian crossings.

Subcomandante Marcos

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So my experience is "absolute nonsense"? Thanks for sharing that perspective.

Yes. Your "experience" is absolute nonsense.

A bike moving at 30kph will cause far, far less damage than a car moving at 20. So even if bikes are moving faster, pedestrians are still less at risk than they are from motor traffic. This isn't hard to understand, it's simple physics. You're talking absolute nonsense and your experience isn't based in reality.

As for cyclists in footpath or your claim "lots of cyclists aren't law abiding, in a recent survey a majority of motorists admitted to regularly speeding, breaking red lights or committing other offences. Your claim that' you're routinely poleaxed by cyclists on footpath should lead your to support encouraging the council to make roads safer and more attractive for cyclists surely? If there's less cars then there's no need for the tiny minority of idiots who cycle on footpaths to continue to do so.

Can we all just agree to disagree with regards to how ****e everyone is at following the basic rules of the road be they propelled by feet, pedals or engines

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's not a valid comparison, and not relevant to the point either.

It's a very valid and relevant comparison.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Just because bicycles don't do something at the same intensity as cars do it, that doesn't mean that the level bicycles do it at is OK.

Correct, but cars kill, they're unhealthy and bad for the cities, bikes are healthy, while it's not ok, it's a lot safer.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If cars were removed from the streets, it would likely be necessary to put in vehicle-calming measures to stop buses and bicycles from moving faster.

If cars were removed from the streets it will be necessary to put proper cycling, pedestrian and public transport infrastructure. Whatever happens, the cities will be cleaner, safer and healthier.

John_Rambo wrote: »

*waiting for the anecdotal evidence now.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Personally, these days before I step out of any bus, I always look in both directions because of they number of near-missed I've had with people using bicycles on the footpath

:rolleyes:

Drama aside, I think Galway could be the first car-less city in Ireland. Perfect for it. Everything is walkable or cycleable, streets are small and snarled up by cars anyway. The roads could be cleared to enable elderly and less healthy people to get around via e-vehicle or public transport.

jkforde

Deleted User wrote: »

Can we all just agree to disagree with regards to how ****e everyone is at following the basic rules of the road be they propelled by feet, pedals or engines

yeah, mé féinism.. it's my road and the rules apply to everyone else!

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Drama aside, I think Galway could be the first car-less city in Ireland. Perfect for it. Everything is walkable or cycleable, streets are small and snarled up by cars anyway. The roads could be cleared to enable elderly and less healthy people to get around via e-vehicle or public transport.

A large number of people who shop and work in Galway city are from the county it is simply unacceptable to stop these people using their cars to get around the city to do their business and/or get to work.

Park and ride etc are nothing but a waste of time and major inconviene so don't even suggest this as an option. People who live in the county are entitled to use the city the same as people who live there and to do so with out major inconvience.