Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

You’re dead right. Modern boots, casts etc… Very easy to use public transport. Certainly easier than driving. Makes Mrs Bumbles point a very moot one. Thanks.

Public transport doesn't exist for a large number of people and even those who have access to it a large number of them will find it either impossible or very inconvenient to use compared to driving. You live in a little urban bubble (one I would hate I might add) that gives you a very poor idea of the reality for most people (I would also be very confident you inconvenience yourself by not using the car at certain times, this isn't acceptable to most people.)

jjpep wrote: »

You'd drive a car with a broken arm?

If you really think this is correct, please hand in your license, you shouldn't be on the road.

Of course I would, as do most people with one. I remember when my father broke his arm he even drove himself in to get it checked at the hospital and drove to work every single day for the duration of having a cast. People with only one arm drive are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to?

topcat77

Pedestrianize streets is not always the answer.

My home town in Wales decided to pedestrianize the majority of the town centre. People believed that this would be a massive benefit to the area and the business that traded there.

What actually happened is that due to the restrictions and the restrictive access people slowly stopped going there and the business moved to the retail centres on the outskirts of the town where people had easy access and free parking.

Last thing i heard was that they're seriously thinking of reopening the streets to traffic.

?Cee?view

topcat77 wrote: »

Pedestrianize streets is not always the answer.

My home town in Wales decided to pedestrianize the majority of the town centre. People believed that this would be a massive benefit to the area and the business that traded there.

What actually happened is that due to the restrictions and the restrictive access people slowly stopped going there and the business moved to the retail centres on the outskirts of the town where people had easy access and free parking.

Last thing i heard was that they're seriously thinking of reopening the streets to traffic.

Completely agree but we're not allowed to say that here. Galway now has a UK style main street since pedestrianisation came in. Witness Boots, McDonalds, a myriad of phone shops etc. which have all replaced local businesses. Perfect example is O'Connors; forced out from Shop Street, and lasted a number of years in a retail park before they were faced with the choice of selling out or succumbing to competition.

topcat77

topcat77 wrote: »

Pedestrianize streets is not always the answer.

My home town in Wales decided to pedestrianize the majority of the town centre. People believed that this would be a massive benefit to the area and the business that traded there.

What actually happened is that due to the restrictions and the restrictive access people slowly stopped going there and the business moved to the retail centres on the outskirts of the town where people had easy access and free parking.

Last thing i heard was that they're seriously thinking of reopening the streets to traffic.

Businesses don't fight against reductions in parking, measures to stop people driving into/around the city for nothing they do it because it has a massive impact on business.

I hear it regularly from businesses closing down around the country that lack of parking, parking charges and reduction in road space for cars is one of the primary reasons for their business going under and I'd fully believe it as people simply don't want to shop in the city if they can't drive in and park for cheap/free as its much easier to go to a retail park.

?Cee?view

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Businesses don't fight against reductions in parking, measures to stop people driving into/around the city for nothing they do it because it has a massive impact on business.

I hear it regularly from businesses closing down around the country that lack of parking, parking charges and reduction in road space for cars is one of the primary reasons for their business going under and I'd fully believe it as people simply don't want to shop in the city if they can't drive in and park for cheap/free as its much easier to go to a retail park.

http://connachttribune.ie/parking-costs-scaring-people-from-galway-city/

what_traffic

topcat77 wrote: »

Pedestrianize streets is not always the answer.

Bar Cross Street there are no other proposals, which ones are you referring too. The big issue in Galway is the through traffic in the City Centre.

Unrealistic

?Cee?view wrote: »

Completely agree but we're not allowed to say that here. Galway now has a UK style main street since pedestrianisation came in. Witness Boots, McDonalds, a myriad of phone shops etc. which have all replaced local businesses. Perfect example is O'Connors; forced out from Shop Street, and lasted a number of years in a retail park before they were faced with the choice of selling out or succumbing to competition.

I'm not sure how this connects to pedestrianisation? O'Connor's moved out of Shop Street but no international electronics retailer displaced them there. Then they moved out to a retail park and didn't survive against the multinationals but that doesn't seem to be anything to do with pedestrianisation, purely down to not being able to match large company efficiencies and customers voting with their wallets. Are you saying that if Shop Street hadn't been pedestrianised O'Connors would still be selling TVs there? It's interesting that other retailers in the same sector, who based themselves in retail parks but who became part of independent buying groups (Cunniffe, Peter Murphy), have managed to survive.

what_traffic

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

I hear it regularly from businesses closing down around the country that lack of parking, parking charges and reduction in road space for cars is one of the primary reasons for their business going under and I'd fully believe it as people simply don't want to shop in the city if they can't drive in and park for cheap/free as its much easier to go to a retail park.

Can you give us an example in Galway City or are you talking about rural County Galway?

what_traffic

?Cee?view wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/parking-costs-scaring-people-from-galway-city/

Wonder what the footfall outside that Cafe/Bakery "Griffin’s Bakery on Shop Street" is? It is still open in 2017 as well(that article is from 2013)

ben.schlomo

Unrealistic wrote: »

I'm not sure how this connects to pedestrianisation? O'Connor's moved out of Shop Street but no international electronics retailer displaced them there. Then they moved out to a retail park and didn't survive against the multinationals but that doesn't seem to be anything to do with pedestrianisation, purely down to not being able to match large company efficiencies and customers voting with their wallets. Are you saying that if Shop Street hadn't been pedestrianised O'Connors would still be selling TVs there? It's interesting that other retailers in the same sector, who based themselves in retail parks but who became part of independent buying groups (Cunniffe, Peter Murphy), have managed to survive.

Quite a bizarre example I thought. Lots of Irish businesses on Shop St too, Mccambridges, Eason, Espresso 44, Powells, Flanagan? Pharmacy, Anthony Ryans to name but some.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Can you give us an example in Galway City or are you talking about rural County Galway?

Here is one more recent article, not about closing down per say but about how lack of cars = lack of shoppers.

http://connachttribune.ie/city-traders-up-in-arms-over-new-parking-charges-on-sundays-444/

When I said country I meant all around Ireland, Cork for instance has had a lot of parking removed due to adding bus lanes and also an extension in parking charges to 8:30 pm in some areas and this is impacting on businesses. The very same applies to Galway.

Unrealistic

It would be interesting to know how the Sunday parking charges have actually impacted businesses. I'm sure there are some people who will choose not to come in because they have to pay for parking but the other side of the coin is that someone who wanted to shop in Anthony Ryan's on a Sunday now has a better chance of finding parking nearby as fewer people are leaving their cars on Market Street for the whole afternoon now that they have to pay €2 an hour to do so. Paid parking, when the price is finely tuned, can actually mean more potential shoppers rather than fewer.

Someone working an eight hour Sunday shift in the city centre would previously have had no reason not to park on Market Street, taking up a scarce parking place for up to 9 hours. Now their incentive is to pay €4 at the Cathedral or the Dyke and walk 6 minutes to work instead of paying €11 in the centre. That space is then available for multiple shoppers who can each stay for a much shorter time and each spend some money in Griffin's, Anthony Ryan's or wherever.

John_Rambo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Public transport doesn't exist for a large number of people and even those who have access to it a large number of them will find it either impossible or very inconvenient to use compared to driving.

I would have been of the same opinion at one time, but it's actually fine. And the less cars there are, the better and quicker the public transport. One thing that was clear at the start of the thread was that if this is to happen, public transport will have to improve.

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

You live in a little urban bubble (one I would hate I might add) that gives you a very poor idea of the reality for most people

What do you mean "most people"? Two thirds of people live in urban areas in Ireland, including you! Who's living in a bubble now with a poor idea of peoples reality? :pac:

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

I would also be very confident you inconvenience yourself by not using the car at certain times, this isn't acceptable to most people.

I would be inconveniencing myself by sitting on my own in a car in traffic along with hundreds of others when I can hop on a bike and whiz in to work in less than fifteen or twenty minutes! I enjoy it and it's good for the mind and the body. Certainly not an inconvenience.

Perfectly acceptable, clean, healthy and a very cheap workout. If I'm going out for food or drinks after work I'll get the bus or train.

ben.schlomo

Unrealistic wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how the Sunday parking charges have actually impacted businesses. I'm sure there are some people who will choose not to come in because they have to pay for parking but the other side of the coin is that someone who wanted to shop in Anthony Ryan's on a Sunday now has a better chance of finding parking nearby as fewer people are leaving their cars on Market Street for the whole afternoon now that they have to pay €2 an hour to do so. Paid parking, when the price is finely tuned, can actually mean more potential shoppers rather than fewer.

Someone working an eight hour Sunday shift in the city centre would previously have had no reason not to park on Market Street, taking up a scarce parking place for up to 9 hours. Now their incentive is to pay €4 at the Cathedral or the Dyke and walk 6 minutes to work instead of paying €11 in the centre. That space is then available for multiple shoppers who can each stay for a much shorter time and each spend some money in Griffin's, Anthony Ryan's or wherever.

The business I know best has seen zero negative impact. Towns as busy as ever on Sundays.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

What do you mean "most people"? Two thirds of people live in urban areas in Ireland, including you! Who's living in a bubble now with a poor idea of peoples reality? :pac:

The reality that a car is vital, even if you live in the city going to the food shopping is a fools errant without a car, going anywhere when its wet, going to multiple places in the same trip, going places where you need to bring stuff with you etc etc.

Also I don't live in an urban area, I was living in what would be considered urban for a while, I'm now living in a place that might just about qualify as suburban, without a car you are in for hardship I will put it that way. Both temporary locations though, when I make the move back home in the near future and start living where I plan to for good it will be a rural area.

John_Rambo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

The reality that a car is vital, even if you live in the city going to the shops is a fools errant without a car, going anywhere when its wet, going to multiple places in the same trip, going places where you need to bring stuff with you etc etc.

But we're talking about banning cars from cities. Not banning you from going to the shops in a car.

By the way I lived in a city without a car for many years. So to many other people. You're wrong again!

?Cee?view

John_Rambo wrote: »

But we're talking about banning cars from cities. Not banning you from going to the shops in a car.
!

So get shops out of cities then?

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

But we're talking about banning cars from cities. Not banning you from going to the shops in a car.

Banning cars from the city stops you getting to the shops and getting around the city. You also may want to go to different shops in different parts of the city, go to other places when you are in town etc. For example you are shopping in tesco and want to go to mass in the cathedral or back to visit someone in the hospital. Closing the salmon weir bridge makes this a much longer and far more awkward journey than it is now. You are also going to have to contend with far more traffic being forced to use less routes across town thus your journey will be slower and you are adding to the traffic on a route you don't need to be on.

Doing this will be a disaster but doing it without the new bypass will be an unbelievable disaster as the other routes are going to get so clogged up with traffic forced to take the routes that could have been avoided were the streets in the city open to cars.

John_Rambo wrote: »

By the way I lived in a city without a car for many years. So to many other people. You're wrong again!

I never said it wasn't possible, I said it would be a total pain in the arse and involve plenty of hardship. I see people lugging bags of shopping back from the shop on foot in the pouring rain regularly and I wouldn't like to be them, far rather being in my warm and dry car.

waterfaerie

John_Rambo wrote: »

The vast majority levitate to the cities

Brilliant! Wouldn't that be a great mode of transport.

John_Rambo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Banning cars from the city stops you getting to the shops and getting around the city. You also may want to go to different shops in different parts of the city, go to other places when you are in town etc. For example you are shopping in tesco and want to go to mass in the cathedral or back to visit someone in the hospital. Closing the salmon weir bridge makes this a much longer and far more awkward journey than it is now. You are also going to have to contend with far more traffic being forced to use less routes across town thus your journey will be slower and you are adding to the traffic on a route you don't need to be on.

Yeah, it's all doable, as I said I did it! And I was a lot more active and did a lot more stuff than I do now. It would be a lot easier with good public transport and no cars snarling up the city. Do Tesco's deliver?

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

I never said it wasn't possible, I said it would be a total pain in the arse and involve plenty of hardship. I see people lugging bags of shopping back from the shop on foot in the pouring rain regularly and I wouldn't like to be them, far rather being in my warm and dry car.

I see where you're coming from. Things can look hard from your cage! But it's not that bad. In saying that, I come from a very outdoors family background and the weather is far better over here on the East coast. I always wondered could the have preferment wooden awnings on some of the streets. It would be very very cool and very unique. The already pedestrianised areas of Galway great spots. Shops are probably the nicest and most profitable in the county.

John_Rambo

?Cee?view wrote: »

So get shops out of cities then?

No. Cars. Did the shops on Shop st. close when they banned cars?

Electric Sheep

I've lived most of my life in cities without a car. Currently I am within comfortable walking distance of my workplace, my healthcare facility, an excellent supermarket, and several very nice parks. I have an insulated shopping trolley, but in general as the shops are so near I simply buy what I need for a couple of days rather than doing a "big shop", which helps to keep down food waste.

If I need a car for a weekend away or something like that, I rent one.

I pay a fairly high rent for my convenient location, but it is offset by the saving on running and insuring a car, and I don't have to worry about parking. The mental and physical health benefits of walking instead of driving are considerable.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Yeah, it's all doable, as I said I did it! And I was a lot more active and did a lot more stuff than I do now. It would be a lot easier with good public transport and no cars snarling up the city. Do Tesco's deliver?
.

Public transport is of no interest to people travelling in from the country it will never be a viable option.

Most people like to do their own shopping, I've no interest in getting it delivered as I usually decide what to buy as I walk around the shop. Also Aldi and Lidl and the butcher and what ever other shop you might pop into on a whim don't deliver.

John_Rambo wrote: »

No. Cars. Did the shops on Shop st. close when they banned cars?

You can park 30 seconds walk from shop street.

Electric Sheep wrote: »

The mental and physical health benefits of walking instead of driving are considerable.

I would be the opposite nothing beats living in the country side compared to a city, I quiet like being able to drive everywhere along with the very long list benefits of not being couped up in a city, having a space and a big house etc etc. The lack of space is a thing that would have a major impact on my quality of life.

?Cee?view

John_Rambo wrote: »

No. Cars. Did the shops on Shop st. close when they banned cars?

Many did. But you probably don’t remember and certainly don’t care

John_Rambo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Many did. But you probably don’t remember and certainly don’t care

If I didn't care I wouldn't be posting!! Believe me, I have no interest in the cities loosing business. They are the backbone of the economy and support the rest of the country! I honestly believe pedestrianising more of the city centres will be a good thing. They become cultural hubs for people. Vibrant places where businesses survive.

How many and what shops closed when it was pedestrianised? Did they actually go out of business or did they move to a driveable site? Are the current shops more or less profitable since pedesdrianisation? A quick google suggests that a few shops closed down during the recession, but had nothing to do with the pedestrianisatoin of the area.

John_Rambo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Public transport is of no interest to people travelling in from the country it will never be a viable option

The amount of country people that do it in Dublin is unbelievable. Especially on match days. Getting more and more popular now. Very viable.

Unrealistic

John_Rambo wrote: »

The amount of country people that do it in Dublin is unbelievable. Especially on match days. Getting more and more popular now. Very viable.

I did that the day of the All-Ireland. Left the car in Lucan and got the bus in and out from there. The bus ticket was cheaper than parking would have been and the exit from the city afterwards was much quicker in the bus lane.

Mrs OBumble

I'm another who is happy to live in the city car-free. I discovered the mental health benefits years ago when my car got stolen and I was car-less for six weeks. The reduced stress from not having to find parking, and from not rushing about to do things all over town was quite noticeable. Stepping out of a bus or taxi and letting someone else do the parking is just magic.

I do bring a back-pack of shopping home from Lidl once a week, 'cos I'm to cheap to pay Dunnes Stores prices. For two people, this is quite do-able. Would be a bit harder for three, and probably wayyyy too hard after that. But as noted Tesco and Dunnes and SuperValu do deliver: Dunnes will in fact delivery the very items which you have picked off the shelf with your own fair hands.

And yes, it does restrict the jobs I can access. (OTOH this saves me from crazy commutes.)

I've done a lot to promote improving and using public transport, and continue to do so.

But I still don't think that "ban cars" is the way to go.

Unrealistic

?Cee?view wrote: »

Many did. But you probably don’t remember and certainly don’t care

I remember Shop Street being pedestrianised, and I remember many shops that were there that are now gone. But I can say the same thing about Dominic Street, Upper Abbeygate Street etc. Retail trends change over time and shops come and go whether they are in a pedestrian zone or not. The only one I can think of that might arguably be attributable to pedestrianisation is O'Connor's. But in those days TV's weighed half a ton, and were as deep as they were wide, so they were generally delivered rather than customers bringing them home in their own cars. And even if pedestrianisation forced it to relocate (arguable) it didn't cause it to close as others have proved it is possible to survive as an independent trader in that market.

ben.schlomo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Many did. But you probably don’t remember and certainly don’t care

A barren wasteland indeed!!