Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

snubbleste

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

.....
There are loads of scenarios where it'll be an issue. It's depressing to see such little empathy and imagination.

What are you on about? How do people manage in pedestrian areas in other parts of the world?

J.pilkington

snubbleste wrote: »

What are you on about? How do people manage in pedestrian areas in other parts of the world?

Talk to / Listen to joe Duffy?

_Whimsical_

snubbleste wrote: »

What are you on about? How do people manage in pedestrian areas in other parts of the world?

In other areas of the world they don't pedestrianise the entire city where there's no other viable option as a city centre area. They have smaller town centres within driving distances, large accessible malls etc. The city centre here is our only option.

And have a little imagination and empathy, how do you think YOU would manage if you found yourself long term ill and unable to walk to bus stops or in a wheelchair in a city that very frequently does not have adequate infrastructure to allow you get from your own doorstep to a bus stop?

Because chances are you'll be facing that someday or someone you love who you'll be responsible for will.

what_traffic

gordongekko wrote: »

How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

Many ways - but as your focus in on the car. They can still drive in a car via University Road to the Car Park that has a Cathedral in the Centre of it. If they want to go to Woodquay have to drive via Quincentenary Bridge.

Strange this thread has a strong focus on the elderly and mobility impaired when they are one of the largest group of current city bus users. Free travel pass helps but the current generation of the "elderly" grew up when cars were not the dominant transport mode.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Many ways - but as your focus in on the car. They can still drive in a car via University Road to the Car Park that has a Cathedral in the Centre of it. If they want to go to Woodquay have to drive via Quincentenary Bridge.

Did you miss the bit about University Rd being closed to private cars, except for local residents?



(Also, what some may not realise is that the Cathedral is the parish church for people living in Newcastle.)

There is a lot of information in this - bus priority routes through the hospital in the long term as an example.

timmyntc

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Solicitor on Eglinton street? Dentist on Prospect Hill? Dr on Forster Street? Funeral in the Abbey church? Book club she'd like to attend?

You can drive up Abbeygate St, or Woodquay and walk from there to the solicitors. Hardly the most taxing thing in the world.
You can get to the Cathedral from University road, however you can't go further, and can only access the cathedral from the western side (first entrance coming from Hospital). This is now 2 way, and the other road is closed off.
You can still drive up forster st, bothar na mban. As for her book club well I haven't a clue where that is.

As for your emotional pleas about the weak, elderly and disabled, well, we cannot let the few (yes, few) stand in the way of progress. Especially seeing as they are not going to be left behind or abandoned or mistreated the way you seem to think (or want) them to be. The majority of the city is still accessible by car (read the proposal ffs and youll see, they even have nice maps that you can look at so you dont have to read!)
The difference here is that travel time for cars into the city will be increased, as a (hopefully effective) deterrent.

Why not think about all those poor elderly and disabled and ill people in ambulances who cant get to a hospital quick enough because of the existing bad traffic management? Do they not deserve some better traffic management so the ambulances can get them quicker? (I assume ambulances will be able to go through the city via eglinton/university road)

snubbleste

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a lot of information in this - bus priority routes through the hospital in the long term as an example.

I can see it now, "stand clear in St. Angela's ward, bus coming through"

timmyntc

One thing that I'm curious about is how theyre going to enforce the residents only traffic situation
Surely there will be some chancers flying through the city as a shortcut trying not to get caught?

Methinks that City council needs to issue something for residents to put on their cars, like a toll tag, and have cameras to catch cars driving across salmon weir bridge/up eyre sq/elsewhere and issue fines?

I dunno.

Also until the Galway bypass is built, all the bus plans will do is make journeys from college road to university road quicker, you'll still get hit by rush hour traffic at westside and at junction of old dublin road/monageeisha/wellpark as people will have to rely on Q bridge to cross the corrib.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Did you miss the bit about University Rd being closed to private cars, except for local residents?



(Also, what some may not realise is that the Cathedral is the parish church for people living in Newcastle.)

Interesting if it happens - cannot see it been implemented though. Can only seen the Salmon Weir been closed. Would mean Car Park at the Cathedral and the City Council Car Park beside it becoming redundant overnight. These are steady income cash cows.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Did you miss the bit about University Rd being closed to private cars, except for local residents?



(Also, what some may not realise is that the Cathedral is the parish church for people living in Newcastle.)

Sorry you are incorrect.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Executive%20Summary%20Report%20-%20English.pdf
Section 4.4
"
Access to the Cathedral and Car Park by car will be from the western side only. This access will become two-way
"
Car Parks are CASH COWS! City Council and the Catholic Church would not give up such monies easily.

Mrs OBumble

timmyntc wrote: »

You can get to the Cathedral from University road, however you can't go further, and can only access the cathedral from the western side (first entrance coming from Hospital). This is now 2 way, and the other road is closed off.

No, read the proposal. University road is proposed to be no-private-cars.

timmyntc wrote: »

You can still drive up forster st, bothar na mban.

Again, no. Forster St is on the no-private-cars list.

Bothar na mBan is stil accessible, and I think becomes two-way.



(If I believed in conspiracy theories, I would say that the proposal has been developed by a taxi-driver who really hates the Catholic church.)

timmyntc wrote: »

.... (I assume ambulances will be able to go through the city via eglinton/university road)

that's on my list of things to put in my submission: if I need an ambulance to come to my house, I want it to get there quickly.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, read the proposal. University road is proposed to be no-private-cars.

Incorrect again. timmyntc is correct. Car access is maintained to the City Council Car Park beside the Cathedral Car Park. One just does not have have access any more as a private motorist for Nuns Island or Salmon Weir Bridge.

Fey!

timmyntc wrote: »

..., we cannot let the few (yes, few) stand in the way of progress...

If this was the case, we'd have the bypass competed years ago.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Incorrect again. timmyntc is correct. Car access is maintained to the City Council Car Park beside the Cathedral Car Park. One one just does not have have access any more as a private motorist for Nuns Island or Salmon Weir Bridge.

It seems we have found an internal inconsistency in the document.

Perhaps some screen shots may help you see what I'm talking about:


This is the best one, from page 45 of the Executive Summary in English:




Supported by the text on page 43:



And page 46:




I think I've got the right references between pictures and page numbers - but they're all from that section of the document.

I tend to agree that the council will be slow to implement this - but they are calling for submissions. If we think that what's proposed in far too draconian and that adequate benefits could be achieved by less-restrictive methods, we should say so, and not rely on common sense to prevail.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It seems we have found an internal inconsistency in the document.

Parhaps its a vagueness rather than an inconsistency; but that is not a surprise here.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/dow... English.pdf
Section 4.4
"
Access to the Cathedral and Car Park by car will be from the western side only. This access will become two-way
"
The big change proposed for this area is the use around Salmon Weir Bridge (Nun's Island there is no change) rather than the Car Parks with the Cathedral in the middle of them.

Hopefully this nonsense goes in the nearest bin, banning cars from these places would be a total joke and not a funny one. Can't see it happening there would be uproar as it would be a massive inconvienence for an awful lot of people and utterly unfair hindering people's movment.

All this effort should be going into building bypass and lot wasting time and money on this utter and unwanted crap.

what_traffic

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Hopefully this nonsense goes in the nearest bin, banning cars from these places would be a total joke and not a funny one. Can't see it happening there would be uproar.

It will happen in some form. This document has been created to show that they need the City Expressway to be built to implement these sustainable travel measures. It's a PR piece.

gordongekko

what_traffic wrote: »

Parhaps its a vagueness rather than an inconsistency; but that is not a surprise here.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/dow... English.pdf
Section 4.4
"
Access to the Cathedral and Car Park by car will be from the western side only. This access will become two-way
"
The big change proposed for this area is the use around Salmon Weir Bridge (Nun's Island there is no change) rather than the Car Parks with the Cathedral in the middle of them.

Maybe nuns island is one way in the opposite direction?

Somewhere in there I saw that the stretch of road on the canal/library/poor clares side of the cathedral will be made two way.

The closed part - starting (at the end of) University road isn't inconsistent with that - but it isn't really clear.

See page 48 of 96 of the executive summary

FortySeven

Not going to resort to what about the pensioners? what about the disabled?

I want to drive my car, I worked bloody hard to get where I am so I DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE BUS ANYMORE!

What we need are more roads that go where people need to go. A bypass would be a start and then start knocking through some of the pointless, tiny houses around the city that are not fit for modern living and not historical enough for saving. Create space. Build another bridge over the river.

Instead we get this monstrosity, a tram? Galway isn't big enough. Park and ride? Great, now I get to carry my purchases to the bus stop and stand in the rain waiting for a bus that I will likely have to stand on with screaming kids and skangers playing music, there will be nowhere to put my shopping and I will have to hump it all off the bus again a km down the road to put it in my car and finally remember that my life isn't completely run by a bunch of environmental communists who seem to revel in forcing us all together into small spaces.

None of this will solve traffic problems, it just forces them to the periphery and multiplies them tenfold. Ridiculous.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

Not going to resort to what about the pensioners? what about the disabled?

I want to drive my car, I worked bloody hard to get where I am so I DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE BUS ANYMORE!

What we need are more roads that go where people need to go. A bypass would be a start and then start knocking through some of the pointless, tiny houses around the city that are not fit for modern living and not historical enough for saving. Create space. Build another bridge over the river.

Instead we get this monstrosity, a tram? Galway isn't big enough. Park and ride? Great, now I get to carry my purchases to the bus stop and stand in the rain waiting for a bus that I will likely have to stand on with screaming kids and skangers playing music, there will be nowhere to put my shopping and I will have to hump it all off the bus again a km down the road to put it in my car and finally remember that my life isn't completely run by a bunch of environmental communists who seem to revel in forcing us all together into small spaces.

None of this will solve traffic problems, it just forces them to the periphery and multiplies them tenfold. Ridiculous.

Great post and one the vast majority of Galway people in the city and even more so in the county would agree with.

_Whimsical_

FortySeven wrote: »

Not going to resort to what about the pensioners? what about the disabled?

I want to drive my car, I worked bloody hard to get where I am so I DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE BUS ANYMORE!

What we need are more roads that go where people need to go. A bypass would be a start and then start knocking through some of the pointless, tiny houses around the city that are not fit for modern living and not historical enough for saving. Create space. Build another bridge over the river.

Instead we get this monstrosity, a tram? Galway isn't big enough. Park and ride? Great, now I get to carry my purchases to the bus stop and stand in the rain waiting for a bus that I will likely have to stand on with screaming kids and skangers playing music, there will be nowhere to put my shopping and I will have to hump it all off the bus again a km down the road to put it in my car and finally remember that my life isn't completely run by a bunch of environmental communists who seem to revel in forcing us all together into small spaces.

None of this will solve traffic problems, it just forces them to the periphery and multiplies them tenfold. Ridiculous.

Fully agree with you!
For the record seeing as I'm the person who's mostly mentioned disability and pensioners I'm not "resorting" to bringing that up. It is a valid issue.
I have 2 friends who are young,under 33, to whom it will make a massive difference. One never really gets to go to any part of the pedestrianised area of town because she can only walk very short distances due to a serious illness she developed 5 years ago. There are loads of shops she's never seen because they're new, she'd kill for a walk around River Island or just to be back in the thick of it for a coffee and some people watching for 20 mins. It's be possible if she could be dropped outside a shop or cafe. I know her and another person in that situation and I'm sure there are others. I think it's important more isn't cut off and it does affect people's lives when it is.
You can't legislate for the exceptions but when there are quite a few of them and when their fate could be any of ours,even temporarily, then the issue still deserves to be raised for those who know nothing about living with limitations. The city should be for everyone where at all possible.

cgcsb

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Yes, and those suit people in wheelchairs who are quite physically strong and well. There's a whole lot of other wheelchair users who aren't well,aren't able to push themselves distances through the town but aren't able to afford or don't fit in grant specifications to get electric wheelchairs from the HSE.
Then there are even more who aren't even able to get from their homes to bus stops due to inadequately planned footpaths of excessive height or tilt in the areas they live.
Those unfortunately are real issues.

Also will you tell your ailing,elderly granny you can't give her a lift to an appointment, that she'll have to walk to the bus stop and make her way through town to get there instead. Wheelchair ramps won't be much use to her.

If you aren't strong enough to push your own wheelchair you're probably not going to be driving yourself anywhere and then unfolding your own wheelchair and pulling yourself out of the car into said wheelchair. You'll require assistance either way.

cgcsb

gordongekko wrote: »

How do an elderly couple manage to get from home to the bus stop half a mile away then to get a bus only to find the 2 wheelchairs spaces are taken by a young mother who won't fold up the buggy to allow them onto the bus?

Plenty of elderly and disabled people are doing the same everyday in Dublin.

FortySeven

cgcsb wrote: »

Plenty of elderly and disabled people are doing the same everyday in Dublin.

Hardly a reason to force it on others.

Mrs OBumble

cgcsb wrote: »

If you aren't strong enough to push your own wheelchair you're probably not going to be driving yourself anywhere and then unfolding your own wheelchair and pulling yourself out of the car into said wheelchair. You'll require assistance either way.

Agreed. Typically you'll get assistance from a relative or friend who will take you places in their car. Under the proposal, this won't be allowed, unless you use a taxi - which you probably cannot afford.

cgcsb

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Agreed. Typically you'll get assistance from a relative or friend who will take you places in their car. Under the proposal, this won't be allowed, unless you use a taxi - which you probably cannot afford.

Cars will still be able to access the city centre. Carers can also travel for free with a disabled person on the bus.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

Cars will still be able to access the city centre. Carers can also travel for free with a disabled person on the bus.

And why put people through all that hardship when there is the far far superior option of using a car and allowing cars full access to the city (bar a very limited number of areas where is makes sense to be pedestrian only like shop street).

It's like going back to using square wheels after round ones were invented.

Wompa1

timmyntc wrote: »

we cannot let the few (yes, few) stand in the way of progress

Unless they live on Lough Atalia and College Rd...then we can let the few stand in the way of progress. That one way system was a revelation. The eejits running the place stumbled upon a way to alleviate some of the traffic and then stood down to appease the few.