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Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

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    #92
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Rubbish. Public transport may be a viable solution for the city itself, but due to the geography of Galway there's a huge amount of rural traffic that needs to cross the city to get from east to west or vice versa. And public transport does not, and likely will not, be a viable option for this. There absolutely needs to be a solution to facilitate people who need to travel over the Corrib, not just into the city.

    The QC is unlikely to be able to take all the traffic, we need another bridge in the Menlo area.

    Not correct. There is very little rural traffic arriving at the city that has destinations outside the city. There is little "real" through-traffic. Trying to cater for car commuters that have their destination in the city is what has consumed road space from all other road uses, walking, cycling, public transport, taxis, delivery traffic, construction traffic, people going shopping and genuine through-traffic.

    There should be no need for most car commuters to use their cars after arriving at the city. Therefore the starting point for solving the city's traffic issues is to stop catering for car commuters ahead of all other considerations.

    Edit: That is unless of course you are an organisation - such as Galway City Council but also others - that makes considerable cash out of charging people to park cars. (To point out the elephant hiding behind the sofa)


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    #93
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    This is utter nonsense from some radical hippies.

    What we really need is more roads to sort the traffic problems. When we build all the new roads, Galway will be much easier to get around in the car.

    Actually, that might encourage more people to opt for the prioritised car option and the roads might get congested. But if that happens we can always just build more roads...


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    #94
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We could be waiting a while for a bypass.
    Does the city do nothing in the meantime?

    It isn't that radical a plan - extend the pedestrianised area by a few hundred meters all round and stop private traffic on one bridge - the alternative being a detour of a few hundred meters in most cases.

    It's cutting 50% of the bridges in the city to cars and cutting about 80% of roads within a mile of Eyre square from traffic.

    That's a radical and a crazy step and doomed to failure. What will happen is it will be placed on a shelf to gather dust. Although we will probably get funding for the bridge across the salmon weir and improvements to wolf tone and o briens bridge.


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    #95
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    They have clearly followed the example of Oxford where Park & Ride works superbly but Oxford has a proper ring road. Galway is becoming two cities - East & West. I live out West & I actively avoid taking on business that involves crossing the river.

    The reason why so many use the town routes is to avoid the congestion on the ring road which will become worse with the proposed closures.


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    #96
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,678 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I was so impressed at the amount of pedestrianised roads after spending the weekend in Galway for the food festival (with kids and in mixed weather). We also sailed in for the Volvo ocean race and were impressed by the walkaboutery in Galway, we've had a few other weekends in Galway city and loved it. Any expansion of this pedestrionisation has to be welcomed. I hope the same thing happens in Dublin. We had no problem parking outside the city and knocking around for hours.

    But... The cities have to start using the taxes earned and supply adequate public transport systems for the city workers.

    Overall, Galway could be an amazing large citadel - no cars from 7am to 9pm.. The first city in Ireland to do so.

    I'm sure there were lots of people that were against Shop Street being pedesrionised?

    Probably the same type of people here now that don't want further pedesrionisation, but LOVE Shop Street for what it is.


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    #97
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    I have nothing against pedestrianisation of parts of the city. Fully agree it makes for a pleasant experience but the sad fact was highlighted above that the volume of traffic coming in and out of Galway is to be ignored in deference to the needs of those who are actually already in a position to walk, cycle or cram themselves into whatever sweaty bulk carrier they choose.

    Rural County Galway is getting a large FU as if us getting to work is some kind of anathema to their blessed lungs. This push to make us live in cities is fuelling more than economic divide. It is socially destructive and I find as with most things these days, the majority suffer in silence as the minority voices spout frankly questionable facts and figures to push flawed agendas to benefit their own lifestyles.

    I'm sick to the back teeth of being told what to do and forced into things I don't like by bloody self righteous, often hypocritical, politicised, middle class busybodies.


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    #98
    talking_walnut
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭talking_walnut


    John_Rambo wrote: »

    I'm sure there were lots of people that were against Shop Street being pedesrionised?

    Probably the same type of people here now that don't want further pedesrionisation, but LOVE Shop Street for what it is.

    You're right about that. It was going to be the end of Galway and the ruination of all shops on Shop St. Sometimes history repeats itself...
    FortySeven wrote: »
    I have nothing against pedestrianisation of parts of the city. Fully agree it makes for a pleasant experience but the sad fact was highlighted above that the volume of traffic coming in and out of Galway is to be ignored in deference to the needs of those who are actually already in a position to walk, cycle or cram themselves into whatever sweaty bulk carrier they choose.

    I regularly use all three (although not the bus as much) and none of them are safe or convenient. Traffic makes buses next to useless for time dependant transport (i.e. when you need to get to work on time). The roads are small and there's few bus lanes so little advantage in travel time to take a bus. Cycling is lethal because you're stuck on the roads with impatient, angry drivers who will happily put your life at risk so they can get to the next set of red lights 2s faster. Walking is often difficult due to poor footpaths and dangerous due to the number of cars jumping lights etc. Mornings are particularly bad with parents dropping their kids to the door of the school.
    FortySeven wrote: »
    Rural County Galway is getting a large FU as if us getting to work is some kind of anathema to their blessed lungs. This push to make us live in cities is fuelling more than economic divide. It is socially destructive and I find as with most things these days, the majority suffer in silence as the minority voices spout frankly questionable facts and figures to push flawed agendas to benefit their own lifestyles.

    Well this plan should actually help people commute from the country. If more people from within the city limits move to public transport, there's more room on the roads for people that need to drive. The objective is to reduce traffic on the roads and reduce overall commute times for everybody. These things have been proven to work in other areas. What's the alternative? The bypass is going to be built. There's no doubt in my mind about that. This stuff will be done in conjunction with that so that we'll have an overall improvement in the efficiency of moving people (not just cars).
    FortySeven wrote: »
    I'm sick to the back teeth of being told what to do and forced into things I don't like by bloody self righteous, often hypocritical, politicised, middle class busybodies.

    I don't mind you disagreeing with this plan and thinking it's the wrong direction but you're getting my goat up now. You complain about city planners (or whoever you vitriol is aimed at) being self righteous but you might need to look in the mirror here. You're getting pissed off that your daily commute might be slightly inconvenienced. I'm pissed off that my life and the lives of my children are put at risk daily due to cars on the road. I've had cars pass me on the bike within inches at speeds of 50kmph+ and then tell me that I shouldn't have been there so it's my own doing. People have screamed at me out the window due to some imaginary slight I've inflicted on them. Bike lanes appear and disappear at random so are no use.

    We still can't let our kid walk to school on his own as the roads are so dangerous in the mornings. People just drive straight through the pedestrian lights because they don't want to wait. This has happened when we're already crossing the road so you literally have cars driving straight at you beeping. My wife has had people mount the path to get around something and beep at her to get out of the way. While she's on the footpath, with our kid.... Don't get me started on the people on phones, doing make-up, still asleep, etc.

    And that's before we look at commute times (which I'm sure is what most people care about, f*ck me and my kids safety, right?). I'm about 15mins from work if I was to drive it off-peak. If I was to drive every day it would take more than 30 in the morning and 1hr+ in the evening. Look around the cars in the morning and you see the vast majority contain 1 person. And despite what you might think, the most people are living and working within the city limits (e.g. Knocknacarra <-> Parkmore).

    [/rant]

    Anyway, rant over. I'm just pointing out that there's other perspectives than your own. I understand the issues of living in the country and working in the city, but I also understand the issues of living in the city and working in the city. We both have terrible traffic to deal with, but when you go home you're out of it. I'm also worried about the health and safety of my family and general quality of life.


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    #99
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Rural County Galway is getting a large FU as if us getting to work is some kind of anathema to their blessed lungs. This push to make us live in cities is fuelling more than economic divide. It is socially destructive and I find as with most things these days, the majority suffer in silence as the minority voices spout frankly questionable facts and figures to push flawed agendas to benefit their own lifestyles.

    I'm sick to the back teeth of being told what to do and forced into things I don't like by bloody self righteous, often hypocritical, politicised, middle class busybodies.

    This contribution feels to me a little bit like "po white trash" in Alabama getting upset because some black folks is getting "uppity" and looking for their rights.

    The plain fact of the matter is that for the last two decades the people of the city have been getting a large FU from rural commuters - to the extent apparently - that some of the same rural commuters feel they now have some "right" to lord it over people in the city.

    There would be a view that part of the traffic problem was that certain key city officials have set up their domestic arrangements in the county instead of the city. The result has been that we had city officials who were rural commuters and who attempted to manage the city for the perceived benefit of rural commuters. That is instead of managing the city for the benefit of people who live in the city.

    We are back to the people of the city getting a big FU from rural commuters - who also happened to work in city hall.

    If we are to solve Galway's transport problems then arguably one part of the solution will need to be a requirement that all city council staff live in the city. I am open to them getting assistance to do so, subsidised accomodation, etc if needed. Council staff who don't live in the city should be invited to seek employment elsewhere.


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    #100
    talking_walnut
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭talking_walnut


    Lets not get off-track with a City vs. Country debate. This is about moving people around the city more efficiently and faster. Historically this focussed on moving cars around faster so it's nice to see that the Council is finally looking at more practical solutions.


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    #101
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,950 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Overall, Galway could be an amazing large citadel - no cars from 7am to 9pm.. The first city in Ireland to do so.

    FWIW, there are no plans in the document for further pedestrianisation.

    The cross city public transport corridor is proposed as a shared space for pedestrians, bicycles, taxis and buses. I actually think that it will be more dangerous for pedestrians, because the lower overall traffic will make many cyclists behave worse than they do now. (Unless the council are brave enough to have dual speed limits - one for vehicles with professional drivers and a far lower one for unlicensed drivers.)


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    #102
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I actually think that it will be more dangerous for pedestrians, because the lower overall traffic will make many cyclists behave worse than they do now.
    Ya how many road deaths and serious injuries have they been responsible for again in the City with regards to pedestrians?


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    #103
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,525 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Yeah cyclists are the real danger to pedestrians, with their lower speed, way lower mass and better agility, and short stopping distance compared to cars. if they hit you they wouldn't kill you clean, better to get walloped by a massive ford galaxy at 50km/h.


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    #104
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,950 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yeah cyclists are the real danger to pedestrians, with their lower speed, way lower mass and better agility, and short stopping distance compared to cars. if they hit you they wouldn't kill you clean, better to get walloped by a massive ford galaxy at 50km/h.

    Feel free to read an eye-witness account of a pedestrian vs speeding cyclist here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057605324

    If there are less cars around, people using bicycles will be tempted to go faster. This will make them more dangerous - compared to current traffic volumes in which they're generally more in-danger themselves.


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    #105
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,525 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Wow a single incident, alright we should let cars go wherever they like, much safer.


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    #106
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    FWIW, there are no plans in the document for further pedestrianisation.

    The cross city public transport corridor is proposed as a shared space for pedestrians, bicycles, taxis and buses. I actually think that it will be more dangerous for pedestrians, because the lower overall traffic will make many cyclists behave worse than they do now. (Unless the council are brave enough to have dual speed limits - one for vehicles with professional drivers and a far lower one for unlicensed drivers.)

    Hmmm. Lets parse that a bit. At the moment we have a city that is being managed for the benefit of car commuters at the expense of other uses of the road space. One side effect is manifestly hostile conditions for vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists. Arguably a side effect of that is that the more cautious personality types have been driven off the roads. It is a likely outcome of mismanaged roads that the remaining cycling population might have an over representation of individuals who are more tolerant of personal risk than the average.

    If there are some in that population who are also given to imposing risk on others they can hardly be blamed for creating that type of road culture?

    Historically Ireland has had the highest child pedestrian death rate in Western Europe - those children werent being killed by cyclists.


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    #107
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yeah cyclists are the real danger to pedestrians, with their lower speed, way lower mass and better agility, and short stopping distance compared to cars. if they hit you they wouldn't kill you clean, better to get walloped by a massive ford galaxy at 50km/h.

    I've been clipped by cyclists twice. Both times at pedestrian crossings where they decided the lights didn't apply to them. They cause less damage sure, but maybe as a direct result they seem to be far less cautious about causing it. I'm not a driver or a cyclist, so I don't have a horse in the race so to speak, but cyclists are far more of a pain in the ass


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    #108
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    If there are less cars around, people using bicycles will be tempted to go faster. This will make them more dangerous - compared to current traffic volumes in which they're generally more in-danger themselves.

    I think this is one of the daftest posts I have read from you Mrs OBumble.

    What speeds are you talking about? What evidence do you have?


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    #109
    JohnCleary
    Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    Jade Disgusting Voice wrote: »
    I've been clipped by cyclists twice. Both times at pedestrian crossings where they decided the lights didn't apply to them. They cause less damage sure, but maybe as a direct result they seem to be far less cautious about causing it. I'm not a driver or a cyclist, so I don't have a horse in the race so to speak, but cyclists are far more of a pain in the ass

    I've lost count of the amount of times that cyclists have cut me off (on roundabouts, for example). They then roar at me because they "have right of way" - ROW or not, if I wasn't keeping an eye out you'd be met with 1.7ton of metal. But of course, it'd be my fault!

    /de-rail


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    #110
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    JohnCleary wrote: »
    ROW or not, if I wasn't keeping an eye out you'd be met with 1.7ton of metal. But of course, it'd be my fault!

    If they had ROW then yes, it would be your fault... :confused:


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    #111
    talking_walnut
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭talking_walnut


    Lets not turn this into another Cyclists vs. Drivers debate. Lets just agree that they're all **** on both sides (excluding the lovely people that have posted in this thread of course :D).


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    #112
    JohnCleary
    Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    J o e wrote: »
    If they had ROW then yes, it would be your fault... :confused:

    I meant it in jest (hard to know on a forum, I appreciate). They didn't have row...they'd cut across me and (sometimes) shout that they had row because they were a bicycle. The mind boggles.


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    #113
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Salmon Weir Bridge been closed for private car traffic will change car traffic flows in Woodquay. What will the impact of that be?


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    #114
    JohnCleary
    Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Salmon Weir Bridge been closed for private car traffic will change car traffic flows in Woodquay. What will the impact of that be?

    TBH I don't see how this is going to work, but i'm sure the powers-that-be have it well thought out :pac: It'll be a balls for me, someone who must drive to their clients (in the city) as I often have paperwork / equipment which just isin't possible to carry a mile or two.

    Will commercial traffic be allowed?

    How will it be policed?


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    #115
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JohnCleary wrote: »
    TBH I don't see how this is going to work, but i'm sure the powers-that-be have it well thought out :pac: It'll be a balls for me, someone who must drive to their clients (in the city) as I often have paperwork / equipment which just isin't possible to carry a mile or two.

    Will commercial traffic be allowed?

    How will it be policed?
    Bus bollards possibly
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0wY-hvMC44


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    #116
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Bus bollards possibly
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0wY-hvMC44

    Would work, have seen similar in operation in Manchester but what about taxi's?


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    #117
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    JohnCleary wrote: »
    TBH I don't see how this is going to work, but i'm sure the powers-that-be have it well thought out :pac: It'll be a balls for me, someone who must drive to their clients (in the city) as I often have paperwork / equipment which just isin't possible to carry a mile or two.

    Will commercial traffic be allowed?

    How will it be policed?

    "If" it is done correctly then most streets will still be open for access, deliveries etc. It should only be awkward for people who wish to drive straight through the city centre.

    People on business may need to plan it differently to how they do it currently but if the commuter car-traffic is gone then they will benefit from less congestion.


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    #118
    Zzippy
    Registered Users Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    What about businesses on those streets that are bus-only? For example Inland Fisheries and the salmon weir fishery - they have loads of staff in and out every day for meetings, plus visiting anglers for 8 months of the year. Other businesses and uni departments too around Fisheries Field or along University Road that would have no vehicular access...


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    #119
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Zzippy wrote: »
    What about businesses on those streets that are bus-only? For example Inland Fisheries and the salmon weir fishery - they have loads of staff in and out every day for meetings, plus visiting anglers for 8 months of the year. Other businesses and uni departments too around Fisheries Field or along University Road that would have no vehicular access...

    If is done right I would say there would be no change for those people except that they would not be able to use the Salmon Weir Bridge for access. The easiest way to do that would be a bus/taxi/ambulance only barrier.


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    #120
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    talking_walnut wrote: »
    Lets not get off-track with a City vs. Country debate. This is about moving people around the city more efficiently and faster. Historically this focussed on moving cars around faster so it's nice to see that the Council is finally looking at more practical solutions.

    I fully accept the sentiment. Unfortunately in this forum there is an established culture of people from the county coming on to sneer at people who would like to improve the city for its inhabitants.


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    #121
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I actually think that it will be more dangerous for pedestrians, because the lower overall traffic will make many cyclists behave worse than they do now. (Unless the council are brave enough to have dual speed limits - one for vehicles with professional drivers and a far lower one for unlicensed drivers.)

    I think you are partially correct. Given the apparent absence of an effective national police service** - then a likely outcome of reducing congestion will be a large increase in speeding by motorists.

    This would result in increased danger for pedestrians and others. One obvious solution would be to give the local authority police powers for traffic management.

    Another solution would be to set up some kind of national police force along the lines of the French Gendarmerie or the Danish Politi.

    ** I don't believe the Garda Siochana meet the criteria and they are part of the traffic/road safety problem rather than part of the solution.


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