Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

FortySeven

jjpep wrote: »

I commute pretty much every day, roughly 10km each way. Shower at work and when i get home, so rain isn't that much of a factor. Not the only person at my workplace who does and also not travelling the furtherest either.

I do find it amusing that some people are willing to pay gym memberships to keep fit but give out about being stuck in traffic on the way to and back from the gym.

I don't have showers at my work. I don't even have hot water. I love how people just assume everyone's lives are like theirs. I spend my day running up and down stairs. I'm middle aged and fit as a fiddle but I'm damned if I'm adding a 40km cycle to my long enough day.

I don't gym. Gyms are for those that want to be seen.

FortySeven

Who is going to finance this cycling utopia? Will bikes be carrying tax discs, will the new bike racks be hourly rate? All this infrastructure, cycle lanes, parking bays, loss of revenue from car parking, economic collapse of city centre business. Are cyclists going to pick up the bill? If we are all going to be cycling there are going to be more accidents, will there be insurance?

Chuchote

Who is financing the current driving utopia, with every car using a massive engine gobbling up our precious and limited supply of fossil fuels to drag along one slack-bellied lazybones?

FortySeven

Chuchote wrote: »

Who is financing the current driving utopia, with every car using a massive engine gobbling up our precious and limited supply of fossil fuels to drag along one slack-bellied lazybones?

Me, me and all the others who pay tax on fuel, tax on import, tax on purchase and tax on ownership.

Less of the slack belly lazybones by the way. Riding a bike doesn't make you hercules.

You didn't answer my questions. Are you happy to pay for your cycling requirements or do I have to subsidise you as you attempt to restrict my movements?

Mrs OBumble

John_Rambo wrote: »

A walk won't kill them. It's not a big issue.

I guess you've not got much understanding of the hospitality industry, and customer behaviour.

You're right that a walk won't kill a tourist.

But the chance that they're going to park 1km(*) away and carry their luggage from there to the accommodation are pretty close to zero. Especially when instead of being a straight line there a few corners which they'd have to go around = potential to get lost.

Tourists will just choose to stay elsewhere. Which meets the objective of removing traffic from the city centre. But it has a pretty unacceptable impact on the property owners who invested with the expectation that they had a good location for a BnB.




(*) I measured: it's just over 0.8km from the first BnB on College Rd to the Eyre Square carpark

dimwittedrep

snubbleste wrote: »

Dunno, How do you get an elderly person from Newcastle to the cathedral?

Give them a fright and wait for the funeral?

dimwittedrep

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So not enough bike parking for less than 1% of the student population - before we even get to the other people who live in the city.

What's your point though? How many students drive in and out of the city centre each day? Sod all I'd imagine.

Chuchote

FortySeven wrote: »

Me, me and all the others who pay tax on fuel, tax on import, tax on purchase and tax on ownership.

In no conceivable world do these taxes pay for our road network!

Less of the slack belly lazybones by the way. [/QUOTE]

Sorry. Got carried away there.

FortySeven

Chuchote wrote: »

In no conceivable world do these taxes pay for our road network!

Less of the slack belly lazybones by the way.

Sorry. Got carried away there.[/quote]

They go a hell of a way closer to paying for it than cyclists contributions .I ask you again, are you willing to pay tax for this? Will you take out third party insurance?

stampydmonkey

FortySeven wrote: »

Sorry. Got carried away there

They go a hell of a way closer to paying for it than cyclists contributions .I ask you again, are you willing to pay tax for this? Will you take out third party insurance?

Will you pay tax for walking down the road? Will you get third party insurance?

Silly argument. Sure we'll all start paying sleep tax too. No tax on nightmares tho

galwaycyclist

FortySeven wrote: »

Me, me and all the others who pay tax on fuel, tax on import, tax on purchase and tax on ownership.

Less of the slack belly lazybones by the way. Riding a bike doesn't make you hercules.

You didn't answer my questions. Are you happy to pay for your cycling requirements or do I have to subsidise you as you attempt to restrict my movements?

Hmm this is a funny argument. Just to get this clear are you saying that is someone uses a bike they are no longer liable for any taxes on their cars or on the fuel they use?

When I get my motor tax notice from shannon I don't ever recall seeing a tickbox so I can apply for an exemption because I use a bike from time to time.

Likewise when I pull into petrol stations in my car I have never seen two prices on the pumps - one for people who do use bikes and one for people who don't.

I dont ever recall seeing two prices in any car salesroom on the basis that someone can get a tax exemption because they also cycle?

I am not saying you're mistaken but could you please provide examples? Some of us might wish to apply.

galwaycyclist

FortySeven wrote: »

Sorry. Got carried away there.

They go a hell of a way closer to paying for it than cyclists contributions .I ask you again, are you willing to pay tax for this? Will you take out third party insurance?

If people are members of cycling Ireland then as far as I know they do have third party insurance. There may be an argument for making that a more general requirement but I dont see the relevance to a traffic plan for Galway city.

@mods maybe we need a new thread for fortysevens insurance ideas?

Chuchote

FortySeven wrote: »

They go a hell of a way closer to paying for it than cyclists contributions .I ask you again, are you willing to pay tax for this? Will you take out third party insurance?

Afaik, my house insurance covers me. I keep meaning to join Cycling Ireland anyway; must get around to it — thanks for reminding me, galwaycyclist.

Since you ask this in a personal way, I don't drive any more. I realised that my car — minimally used — was costing me €2,000 a year, and when it failed the NCT I scrapped it and didn't replace it. Actually, I was wrong – it was costing me €3,000 a year; I hadn't factored in parking fees.

Cyclists don't pay an emissions tax because they don't create emissions. They don't pay extra tax for using the roads because the impact of a 15kg bicycle with a 150kg person on it doesn't wear the roads at the same rate as the impact of a 3-tonne car with the same person in it.

To be quite serious about driving and its impact on the environment, if we could replace even half the journeys that are taken by car with the same journeys taken by bicycle, we could cut the emissions that are gradually — indeed not even gradually at this stage — destroying our planet as a home for human life.

Driving seems normal to us because we've grown up with it, but it really isn't normal to use these resources in such a wasteful way.

I can see how you need to drive, though; 20km would take you half an hour or so to cycle, and if cycling isn't a joy to you as it is to me, that would be miserable.

JohnCleary

Chuchote wrote: »

3-tonne.

Stop driving your tractor on the road mate, it's ripping up the surface

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I guess you've not got much understanding of the hospitality industry, and customer behaviour.

You're right that a walk won't kill a tourist.

But the chance that they're going to park 1km(*) away and carry their luggage from there to the accommodation are pretty close to zero. Especially when instead of being a straight line there a few corners which they'd have to go around = potential to get lost.

Tourists will just choose to stay elsewhere. Which meets the objective of removing traffic from the city centre. But it has a pretty unacceptable impact on the property owners who invested with the expectation that they had a good location for a BnB.




(*) I measured: it's just over 0.8km from the first BnB on College Rd to the Eyre Square carpark

This feels like an artificial argument could it be that we are not all reading the same report?

In the document that I am reading, it says University road will be "local access only" therefore cars will have access to local destinations and properties - including B&Bs.

No trolleys, no walking 0.8km etc

Calling "straw man" on this unless someone can produce a source?

lockyjpl

Chuchote wrote: »

Afaik, my house insurance covers me. I keep meaning to join Cycling Ireland anyway; must get around to it — thanks for reminding me, galwaycyclist.

Since you ask this in a personal way, I don't drive any more. I realised that my car — minimally used — was costing me €2,000 a year, and when it failed the NCT I scrapped it and didn't replace it. Actually, I was wrong – it was costing me €3,000 a year; I hadn't factored in parking fees.

Cyclists don't pay an emissions tax because they don't create emissions. They don't pay extra tax for using the roads because the impact of a 15kg bicycle with a 150kg person on it doesn't wear the roads at the same rate as the impact of a 3-tonne car with the same person in it.

To be quite serious about driving and its impact on the environment, if we could replace even half the journeys that are taken by car with the same journeys taken by bicycle, we could cut the emissions that are gradually — indeed not even gradually at this stage — destroying our planet as a home for human life.

Driving seems normal to us because we've grown up with it, but it really isn't normal to use these resources in such a wasteful way.

I can see how you need to drive, though; 20km would take you half an hour or so to cycle, and if cycling isn't a joy to you as it is to me, that would be miserable.

€1,000 parking fees per annum
3 Tonne Car
150kg Person
The best move you ever did was give up the car.
Btw, you neglected to mention how much fuel this Monster truck you used to own comsumed 😆😆

Chuchote

lockyjpl wrote: »

€1,000 parking fees per annum
3 Tonne Car
150kg Person
The best move you ever did was give up the car.
Btw, you neglected to mention how much fuel this Monster truck you used to own comsumed 😆😆

Ah, don't mock my poor little crushed Ford Mondeo!

I was very surprised to find that it weighed so much; looked it up when i was finding out about scrappage.

Couldn't tell you how much the fuel was, but I'd been keeping a record of the weekly price — for journeys to do interviews during my work, bringing the dog to the park or the sea for a bounce around, and the odd trip across the country on bank holiday weekends or when I suddenly felt trapped in the city.

Chuchote

Car weights, just for interest:

https:// www .reference.com/vehicles/many-tons-car-weigh-8538e6a0aee6e237

Most gas-efficient, smaller sedans, such as a Toyota Camry or Subaru Impreza, weigh in at approximately 3,100 pounds (1.55 tons). Larger luxury sedans, like BMWs 740i sedan, weigh in over the average at 4,300 pounds (2.25 tons). Many SUVs and trucks top 2.5 or even 3 tons. On the other end of the spectrum lie cars such as the Honda Civic and Smart Fortwo, which barely tip the scale at 1.3 and 0.9 tons, respectively.

Gremlinertia

I use many modes to get around this town, this nitpicking is pointless - we all have our preferred ways to traverse both town and outer areas. I currently find bus, walking and the odd taxi more than capable for my needs. That's my logistics for this point in my life.. I will study the proposal further when i have a chance but i think weight of vehicle etc is not suitable for this particular thread?. Open to correction of course..

Chuchote

Gremlinertia wrote: »

I use many modes to get around this town, this nitpicking is pointless - we all have our preferred ways to traverse both town and outer areas. I currently find bus, walking and the odd taxi more than capable for my needs. That's my logistics for this point in my life.. I will study the proposal further when i have a chance but i think weight of vehicle etc is not suitable for this particular thread?. Open to correction of course..

Gremlin, the reason I was mentioning the weight is that another poster was saying cyclists should pay for their impact on the road; it was a pure comparison of the effect of cars and bikes. Sorry for the thread creep — you're quite right, of course.

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I guess you've not got much understanding of the hospitality industry, and customer behaviour.

You're right that a walk won't kill a tourist.

But the chance that they're going to park 1km(*) away and carry their luggage from there to the accommodation are pretty close to zero. Especially when instead of being a straight line there a few corners which they'd have to go around = potential to get lost.

Tourists will just choose to stay elsewhere. Which meets the objective of removing traffic from the city centre. But it has a pretty unacceptable impact on the property owners who invested with the expectation that they had a good location for a BnB.

(*) I measured: it's just over 0.8km from the first BnB on College Rd to the Eyre Square carpark

I guess you've not got much understanding of the hospitality industry, and customer behaviour! Your tunnel vision fear based thinking is blinkering you. Businesses will survive and thrive if there's lateral thinking. Car dependency is an Irish thing (look at the panic on this thread already) most tourists are fine with public transport, in fact most prefer it. Shuttle services can be arranged, from rickshaw to electric cart if there's no access, but, there will most likely be access.

I've holidayed in plenty of pedestrianised citadels. Are you going to tell me that the Madrid's, Ghent's, Venice's Milan's, Vienna's, Hamburg's and Paris's urban planners don't understand hospitality either as they aim to go car-free? They recognise that streets should be designed for people, not cars.

FortySeven wrote: »

Who is going to finance this cycling utopia? Will bikes be carrying tax discs, will the new bike racks be hourly rate? All this infrastructure, cycle lanes, parking bays, loss of revenue from car parking, economic collapse of city centre business. Are cyclists going to pick up the bill? If we are all going to be cycling there are going to be more accidents, will there be insurance?

Cycle infrastructure is a lot cheaper than car infrastructure, plus the city will pay for it itself. Any subsidies are flowing out of the city to the urban areas, not the other way around.

Economic collapse? Calm down.

FortySeven

Chuchote wrote: »

Afaik, my house insurance covers me. I keep meaning to join Cycling Ireland anyway; must get around to it — thanks for reminding me, galwaycyclist.

Since you ask this in a personal way, I don't drive any more. I realised that my car — minimally used — was costing me €2,000 a year, and when it failed the NCT I scrapped it and didn't replace it. Actually, I was wrong – it was costing me €3,000 a year; I hadn't factored in parking fees.

Cyclists don't pay an emissions tax because they don't create emissions. They don't pay extra tax for using the roads because the impact of a 15kg bicycle with a 150kg person on it doesn't wear the roads at the same rate as the impact of a 3-tonne car with the same person in it.

To be quite serious about driving and its impact on the environment, if we could replace even half the journeys that are taken by car with the same journeys taken by bicycle, we could cut the emissions that are gradually — indeed not even gradually at this stage — destroying our planet as a home for human life.

Driving seems normal to us because we've grown up with it, but it really isn't normal to use these resources in such a wasteful way.

I can see how you need to drive, though; 20km would take you half an hour or so to cycle, and if cycling isn't a joy to you as it is to me, that would be miserable.

I don't disagree, I am an avid cyclist and I love riding a bike long distance. I live near headford and I'm sure you know that road .I would be signing a potential death cert to start commuting by bike.

I also happen to agree we need to reduce emissions and we are. My disagreement is with this implementation of urban transportation in a tiny town (in a global comparison) in what I see to be an experimental social engineering exercise.

Cars will not go away because of this, it will just cause more hardship for all.

More useful for your emissions argument would be to reduce transit times for cars with the use of flyovers, bypasses and other modern transit means. If my journey time is reduced by a quarter, guess what happens to my emissions? Extrapolate that over the population and it is a considerable saving. What is being proposed will increase bottlenecks and thus transit times. More emissions.

If you want to see an example of pointless cycling campaigning for infrastructure you need look no further than the doughiska road. I'm at work now so can't go into it but will later.

FortySeven

John_Rambo wrote: »

I guess you've not got much understanding of the hospitality industry, and customer behaviour! Your tunnel vision fear based thinking is blinkering you. Businesses will survive and thrive if there's lateral thinking. Car dependency is an Irish thing (look at the panic on this thread already) most tourists are fine with public transport, in fact most prefer it. Shuttle services can be arranged, from rickshaw to electric cart if there's no access, but, there will most likely be access.

I've holidayed in plenty of pedestrianised citadels. Are you going to tell me that the Madrid's, Ghent's, Venice's Milan's, Vienna's, Hamburg's and Paris's urban planners don't understand hospitality either as they aim to go car-free? They recognise that streets should be designed for people, not cars.



Cycle infrastructure is a lot cheaper than car infrastructure, plus the city will pay for it itself. Any subsidies are flowing out of the city to the urban areas, not the other way around.

Economic collapse? Calm down.

Have you ever looked into what happens to local shops when out of town shipping offers free parking? Ghost towns.

This would force people into seeking alternative out of city shopping. Create demand, supply will come.

Regarding hospitality. 20 years in the game and I agree with Mrs Bumble. Tourists want an easy time.

John_Rambo

FortySeven wrote: »

Have you ever looked into what happens to local shops when out of town shipping offers free parking? Ghost towns.

This would force people into seeking alternative out of city shopping. Create demand, supply will come.

Regarding hospitality. 20 years in the game and I agree with Mrs Bumble. Tourists want an easy time.

Yeah, Shop street, Galway, Grafton St. & Henry St. Dublin - Ghost streets.

Regarding hospitality, tourists want an easy time, no cars, walkable areas. Look further afield, broaden your attitude, look at Ghent for instance. Did you read my posts about Paris, Milan, Madrid etc...? Do you think they're wrong?

Wake up lads, it's an urban area, the partial pedestranisation of Galway was the making of the amazing city we know now.

FortySeven

John_Rambo wrote: »

Yeah, Shop street, Galway, Grafton St. & Henry St. Dublin - Ghost streets.

Regarding hospitality, tourists want an easy time, no cars, walkable areas. Look further afield, broaden your attitude, look at Ghent for instance. Did you read my posts about Paris, Milan, Madrid etc...? Do you think they're wrong?

Wake up lads, it's an urban area, the partial pedestranisation of Galway was the making of the amazing city we know now.

It's a well documented occurrence in the UK where pedestrianisation happened 30 years ago in most cities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11409692/High-Street-suffers-as-more-people-favour-out-of-town-locations.html

galwaycyclist

FortySeven wrote: »

Have you ever looked into what happens to local shops when out of town shipping offers free parking? Ghost towns.

This would force people into seeking alternative out of city shopping. Create demand, supply will come.

Regarding hospitality. 20 years in the game and I agree with Mrs Bumble. Tourists want an easy time.

That is an argument for restricting out of town shopping centres and for blocking them from having free parking.

It is not an argument against restricting private commuter car traffic from selected city centre streets.

Again I am calling bs on the suggestion that tourists would not be able to drive to their accommodation under this plan.

Produce your source - hint Mrs. O'Bumble doesnt count.

John_Rambo

FortySeven wrote: »

It's a well documented occurrence in the UK where pedestrianisation happened 30 years ago in most cities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11409692/High-Street-suffers-as-more-people-favour-out-of-town-locations.html

Nice try. Pedestrianisation mentioned absolutely nowhere in that story. It seems to blame click and collect shopping on the decline.

http://www.newurbanism.org/pedestrian.html This website however, does mention pedestrianisation and the advantages of it to cities, it's citizens and it's businesses.

FortySeven

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nice try. Pedestrianisation mentioned absolutely nowhere in that story. It seems to blame click and collect shopping on the decline.

http://www.newurbanism.org/pedestrian.html This website however, does mention pedestrianisation and the advantages of it to cities, it's citizens and it's businesses.

New urbanism. Not sure I even need to click on that to know where it is going. I'm at work, on my phone so I am going to bow out till this evening when I will answer above posts.

cgcsb

FortySeven wrote: »

Cycling is not popular in Galway because it is almost constantly raining in Galway. I have never once struggled to find somewhere to lock my bike in Galway. This argument is rubbish.

Limerick is as wet.

Spanish Eyes

I was in a city in Spain recently. the Old Town where we were staying was fully pedestrianised. Quite a big area too.

The Taxi driver stopped at the nearest point and had a sheaf of photocopied street maps on the dashboard. He took one, marked where we were stopped and where the hotel was.

Brilliant. About a seven or eight minute walk no bother at all, and the area was amazing. Kids all over the place because it was SAFE from traffic, and cafes/restaurants with outdoor seating.

Anyway, while I was there, I was really wondering why we don't make use of outdoor areas for eating and drinking. Well it's not there, because there are too many CARS!

And before anyone starts the Blah Blah about our weather, well when I was in Maastricht in December, it was cold and wet, but the outdoor areas (in the pedestrian zone AGAIN, lol) had heaters and blankets, and it was just great.

It's all in the head this panic about no cars. It can work.