Council to ban cars from O'Briens & Salmon Weir bridge, and 7 streets

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You misunderstood the document. There is a proposal for Park, and some roads (but not sites) identified. But the ride is slated to be provided by the regular city buses. So I would expect that the services are already viable.

(Ironically there is already an almost perfect P&R site in Roscam, which is already used by some people in that capacity.)

There is also a perfect site at the start of the 405 route on the Western Distributor Road. There is an enormous - largely unused - underground car park beneath the Gateway Retail Park.



Are the city bus services viable? or are they already operating at a loss?

Either way are any car based commuters going to switch to park and ride if it has been made more convenient and attractive to use their cars?

Eh - how can the UTMC "remove road capacity from cyclists"???

How could timer activation, with no consideration of the actual traffic volumes, be better?

System capacity might have been a better term but hey thats what happens when you're under time pressure. They remove system capacity because the lights will no longer change for people on bikes. They stay red unless a car happens to come along. So the UTMC is being used to send out the message that people on bikes come at the bottom of the list in Galway - one form of transport has been systematically de-prioritised across the city.

So the city is using the UTMC to preferentially give system capacity (time) to cars at the expense of other forms of travel. It is truism of urban planning that if you give more system capacity (time/road space etc) to cars then the car will grow to consume the available capacity. Its a bit like trying to stop a fire by pouring petrol onto it.

Edit:insert pic
Edit2:smallify pic

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

I just saw this! :pac:

Sitting beside people, other human beings! Carrying your stuff around, in your hands or... in a bag, the horror! Possible injuries! NOBODY ever gets injured in cars!

Classic! Thanks again Nox, you've delivered.

Yes carrying heavy items around such as shopping or other goods you might buy ranges from awkward and inconvenient to impossible. That's leaving aside the fact I have back problems so it can be painful for me to carry anything that is heavy for any distance. Manhandling two bags of shopping while trying to get into a seat on a bus and sitting on uncomfortable hard seats would leave me in worse pain than I'm in. I'll be honest and say when I see people food shopping without a car, trudging around with 3 or 4 bags of shopping as I pass in the car with a boot load of stuff I pity them.

Also what use is a bus from someone who has multiple places to go, drive to work, head somewhere to get lunch at lunch, drop into two or three places on the way home etc. This is very common stuff particularity for people living rurally, they need their car and they need it close to them at work also in case they want to get things done at lunch and also dont want having to walk far in rain etc. I am very hopeful all these plans will go in the bin though as there will be uproar and enough uproar will stop this nonsense.

John_Rambo wrote: »

A walk won't kill them. It's not a big issue.

When I'm booking accommodation one of the first things I look for is has it got free parking onsite. If not I don't book it, most people would be the same you are severely underestimating how important parking is to people travelling around in a car on holidays.

ben.schlomo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Yes carrying heavy items around such as shopping or other goods you might buy ranges from awkward and inconvenient to impossible. That's leaving aside the fact I have back problems so it can be painful for me to carry anything that is heavy for any distance. Manhandling two bags of shopping while trying to get into a seat on a bus and sitting on uncomfortable hard seats would leave me in worse pain than I'm in. I'll be honest and say when I see people food shopping without a car, trudging around with 3 or 4 bags of shopping as I pass in the car with a boot load of stuff I pity them.

Also what use is a bus from someone who has multiple places to go, drive to work, head somewhere to get lunch at lunch, drop into two or three places on the way home etc. This is very common stuff particularity for people living rurally, they need their car and they need it close to them at work also in case they want to get things done at lunch and also dont want having to walk far in rain etc. I am very hopeful all these plans will go in the bin though as there will be uproar and enough uproar will stop this nonsense.



When I'm booking accommodation one of the first things I look for is has it got free parking onsite. If not I don't book it, most people would be the same you are severely underestimating how important parking is to people travelling around in a car on holidays.

Another of those wide ranging 'Nox studies'.

talking_walnut

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Yes carrying heavy items around such as shopping or other goods you might buy ranges from awkward and inconvenient to impossible. That's leaving aside the fact I have back problems so it can be painful for me to carry anything that is heavy for any distance. Manhandling two bags of shopping while trying to get into a seat on a bus and sitting on uncomfortable hard seats would leave me in worse pain than I'm in. I'll be honest and say when I see people food shopping without a car, trudging around with 3 or 4 bags of shopping as I pass in the car with a boot load of stuff I pity them.

Also what use is a bus from someone who has multiple places to go, drive to work, head somewhere to get lunch at lunch, drop into two or three places on the way home etc. This is very common stuff particularity for people living rurally, they need their car and they need it close to them at work also in case they want to get things done at lunch and also dont want having to walk far in rain etc. I am very hopeful all these plans will go in the bin though as there will be uproar and enough uproar will stop this nonsense.



When I'm booking accommodation one of the first things I look for is has it got free parking onsite. If not I don't book it, most people would be the same you are severely underestimating how important parking is to people travelling around in a car on holidays.

Not everybody is you though. I bring my own lunch into work despite there being a very good canteen. I don't expect them to close the canteen since "some people bring their lunch in". I also prefer to walk places instead of drive, but I don't have back problems so I don't have that to factor in.

My point is we're all different. Your scenarios aren't representative of everybody else in the city. There'll always be some people that drive, either through need or want. Meanwhile if the council can manage to convince even a third of the commuting public to switch from their own car to the bus, that's a third less cars on the road while you're driving around. Does that not sound appealing?

Also, the rain won't kill you ffs. You live in a wet country. It rains a lot. By some waterproof gear and get on with it. Tourists manage to show up with all the gear, yet Irish people can't figure it out. That's how you spot the foreigners from far away. They're the ones dressed for the weather.

topcat77

The proposed car parking would be contrary to the Galway Transport Strategy.

http://connachttribune.ie/councillors-vote-down-questionable-rezoning-bid-for-prime-site-877/

looks like the brown envelop wasn't big enough this time ;-)

Mrs OBumble

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Another of those wide ranging 'Nox studies'.

In fairness, s/he does give the rest of us an excellent insight into the culchie mindset.

cgcsb

How on Earth did Irish civillisation develop between 3,000 BC and 1960 AD without metal boxes to protect us from that wet stuff?

talking_walnut

cgcsb wrote: »

How on Earth did Irish civillisation develop between 3,000 BC and 1960 AD without metal boxes to protect us from that wet stuff?

In fairness most of them are dead now

Unrealistic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In fairness, s/he does give the rest of us an excellent insight into the culchie mindset.

I always hate seeing 'culchie' used as a put down like that. You could accurately describe his/her mindset as blinkered, self-centred, short-sighted, childish, etc. without risking insulting the rest of the rural population.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

How on Earth did Irish civillisation develop between 3,000 BC and 1960 AD without metal boxes to protect us from that wet stuff?

Its called progress. Civilisation developed without being able to treat diseases, with practices that would be unthinkable to us today, without education for most of the time etc etc etc.

Having your own personal way to be able to travel from your home to your destination on the schedule you chose and on the route you chose while being able to carry the things you want with you would be mind blowing progress to all those people over the 100's and 1000's of years and they would see it as bizarre and crazy that a small few people want to try to make it awkward to use them.

Also who wants that hassle of having to use wet gear etc if you can avoid it. I have to walk/cycle to work at the minute and its a pain as I don't qualify for a parking space yet. Trudging along in the rain with a few layers, having to put them on and take them off, sweating in them etc while other just wear a t-sh1rt and run to their car from the house and from their house to the office with none of that messing with wet gear etc.

cgcsb

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Having your own personal way to be able to travel from your home to your destination on the schedule you chose and on the route you chose while being able to carry the things you want with you would be mind blowing progress to all those people over the 100's and 1000's of years and they would see it as bizarre and crazy that a small few people want to try to make it awkward to use them.

Also who wants that hassle of having to use wet gear etc if you can avoid it. I have to walk/cycle to work at the minute and its a pain as I don't qualify for a parking space yet. Trudging along in the rain with a few layers, having to put them on and take them off, sweating in them etc while other just wear a t-sh1rt and run to their car from the house and from their house to the office with none of that messing with wet gear etc.

It's called yet more progress, when as a society we realise that actually ever expanding roads and traffic ques is counter productive to human development and damaging to our world. Isn't progress wonderful?

Remember progress doesn't always = improvement to your personal convenience. 100 years ago if you were wealthy enough and your wife was really annoying you, you could just send her to a mental hospital and say she was hysterical, convenient for you yes, but we've progressed beyond that. Years ago you could dump your sewage into the public watercourse, very convenient and cheap, but of course we(most of us anyway) have progressed beyond that.

John_Rambo

Dangelo Eager Conga wrote: »

Yes carrying heavy items around such as shopping or other goods you might buy ranges from awkward and inconvenient to impossible. That's leaving aside the fact I have back problems so it can be painful for me to carry anything that is heavy for any distance. Manhandling two bags of shopping while trying to get into a seat on a bus and sitting on uncomfortable hard seats would leave me in worse pain than I'm in. I'll be honest and say when I see people food shopping without a car, trudging around with 3 or 4 bags of shopping as I pass in the car with a boot load of stuff I pity them.

Also what use is a bus from someone who has multiple places to go, drive to work, head somewhere to get lunch at lunch, drop into two or three places on the way home etc. This is very common stuff particularity for people living rurally, they need their car and they need it close to them at work also in case they want to get things done at lunch and also dont want having to walk far in rain etc. I am very hopeful all these plans will go in the bin though as there will be uproar and enough uproar will stop this nonsense.



When I'm booking accommodation one of the first things I look for is has it got free parking onsite. If not I don't book it, most people would be the same you are severely underestimating how important parking is to people travelling around in a car on holidays.

That’s gas Nox001, in all the years of you posting on boards.ie about your tough farm labouring at the weekend, operating heavy machinery, handling livestock, hours at a desk, weekend long drinking sessions, you’ve never mentioned your severe disability that makes getting on a bus with two bags painful!!

You’re car isn’t a wheelchair. Streets are for people, not cars. This should obviously go ahead.

By the way, congrats to Galway. Ireland’s city of culture for 2020. I’d say most of the city will be pedestrianised by then.

Mrs OBumble

Unrealistic wrote: »

I always hate seeing 'culchie' used as a put down like that. You could accurately describe his/her mindset as blinkered, self-centred, short-sighted, childish, etc. without risking insulting the rest of the rural population.

I wasn't implying any of those adjectives, actually. You're the one who brought them up

Nox's attitude on lots of issues is rural, more than anything else: it is totally infeasible to provide mass public transport in rural areas, so of course rural people's mindset is oriented around using private cars. Broadband is often poor, so of course they rely on television more than city people. Etc.

I genuinely do believe that it's helpful for city people to be reminded of these attitudes and perspectives. Even if we don't agree with them.

tenacious-me

galwaycyclist wrote: »

They remove system capacity because the lights will no longer change for people on bikes. They stay red unless a car happens to come along.

This. It seems there's more of these every month, incredibly annoying when you're out early in the morning or later at night and there's no cars to change the light for you.

I do not understand how they can justify completely removing functionality for a significant portion of road users!

J.pilkington

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

When I'm booking accommodation one of the first things I look for is has it got free parking onsite. If not I don't book it, most people would be the same you are severely underestimating how important parking is to people travelling around in a car on holidays.

Your vacations must involve you staying in the outskirts of cities / large towns if you are relying on free and available parking (being a key word as city hotels who gave free parking are usually limited to a handful of spaces on a first come basis).

Take Galway / Limerick / cork / Dublin / Belfast as an example what city centre hotel has free parking?

gordongekko

J.pilkington wrote: »

Your vacations must involve you staying in the outskirts of cities / large towns if you are relying on free and available parking (being a key word as city hotels who gave free parking are usually limited to a handful of spaces on a first come basis).

Take Galway / Limerick / cork / Dublin / Belfast as an example what city centre hotel has free parking?

The onsite parking is more key than free parking for me.

Electric Sheep

J.pilkington wrote: »

Your vacations must involve you staying in the outskirts of cities / large towns if you are relying on free and available parking (being a key word as city hotels who gave free parking are usually limited to a handful of spaces on a first come basis).

Take Galway / Limerick / cork / Dublin / Belfast as an example what city centre hotel has free parking?

When I am booking a vacation a destination that does not require a car is key to me. Maybe rent one for a couple of days if I want. If travelling on business, a hotel that provides a shuttle bus to the business area of town will always get my booking if there is no hotel within walking distance of where work takes me.

Mrs OBumble

J.pilkington wrote: »

Your vacations must involve you staying in the outskirts of cities / large towns if you are relying on free and available parking (being a key word as city hotels who gave free parking are usually limited to a handful of spaces on a first come basis).

Take Galway / Limerick / cork / Dublin / Belfast as an example what city centre hotel has free parking?

Radisson is E5 per night - which is virtually free when compared to the cost of the room.

Meyrick offers the same, but only for 25 cars, first-come-first-served. Ditto.

Imperial - rooms are cheaper, but the parking is 10 per night.

Western - parking is free. I cannot remember the size, but it's certainly not tidy.

J.pilkington

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Radisson is E5 per night - which is virtually free when compared to the cost of the room.

Meyrick offers the same, but only for 25 cars, first-come-first-served. Ditto.

Imperial - rooms are cheaper, but the parking is 10 per night.

Western - parking is free. I cannot remember the size, but it's certainly not tidy.

All I'm seeing is a list of places that either cost money to park a car or have very limited parking as my post stated. NOX will only stay at hotels with free parking for which you are taking about flannerys / Menlo with same constraints in all cities and large towns

snubbleste

J.pilkington wrote: »

... NOX will only stay at hotels with free parking for which you are taking about flannerys / Menlo with same constraints in all cities and large towns

El_Dangeroso

snubbleste wrote: »

LOL that's too perfect.

J.pilkington

J.pilkington wrote: »

Your vacations must involve you staying in the outskirts of cities / large towns if you are relying on free and available parking (being a key word as city hotels who gave free parking are usually limited to a handful of spaces on a first come basis).

Take Galway / Limerick / cork / Dublin / Belfast as an example what city centre hotel has free parking?

Ok having parking is the priority butpreferably free. That being said I can't remember off the top of my head having to pay for parking in any hotel I've stayed in. As for destination its very rarely city centres I would be staying in if staying in a hotel in Ireland it would be big or small towns etc when travelling around which ever part of the country is chosen.

Electric Sheep wrote: »

When I am booking a vacation a destination that does not require a car is key to me. Maybe rent one for a couple of days if I want. If travelling on business, a hotel that provides a shuttle bus to the business area of town will always get my booking if there is no hotel within walking distance of where work takes me.

It depends on the type of holiday, if its in Ireland driving is guaranteed as I would be travelling from place to place etc. Same for a holiday like in the US where you will be travelling around from place to place seeing sights. Obviously if you are going on a city break or sun holiday you won't need a car but these are different types of holiday.

As for when I travel for work I almost always stay in the centre of what ever town/city I'm in as its better for going on the beer/eating in the evenings and just expense taxis to bring me to from the meeting place.

John_Rambo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Obviously if you are going on a city break or sun holiday you won't need a car but these are different types of holiday.

There you go. No need for a car when holidaying in Galway city.

Further pedestrianisation and improve public transport. A light rail system would be super cool in Galway.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

There you go. No need for a car when holidaying in Galway city.

Further pedestrianisation and improve public transport. A light rail system would be super cool in Galway.

Galway is small, most people will be doing day trips by car as well as days in the city. It's like saying you don't need a Car visiting Killarney. I woundn't contemplate going to Killarney without a car and having parking outside the door of where I'm staying it would be the same for Galway if I was a person visiting. The exception being when I go somewhere purely to go on the beer for a weekend and don't leave the pubs then even a small place you don't need a car as you aren't going to be doing any travelling around.

Ha ha another person taking about light rail. What a total and absolute waste of money which would serve a tiny number of people incomparision to the massive number both inside and outside the city that a bypass would serve. There are a few pathetic signs up around the city trying to drum up support for light rail, talking total and utter nonsense. They amuse and annoy me in equal measure.

jjpep

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Galway is small, most people will be doing day trips by car as well as days in the city. It's like saying you don't need a Car visiting Killarney. I woundn't contemplate going to Killarney without a car and having parking outside the door of where I'm staying it would be the same for Galway if I was a person visiting. The exception being when I go somewhere purely to go on the beer for a weekend and don't leave the pubs then even a small place you don't need a car as you aren't going to be doing any travelling around.
.

Actually for me that would make killarney attractive, right now its just too clogged up at this year to be enjoyed

ben.schlomo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Galway is small, most people will be doing day trips by car as well as days in the city. It's like saying you don't need a Car visiting Killarney. I woundn't contemplate going to Killarney without a car and having parking outside the door of where I'm staying it would be the same for Galway if I was a person visiting. The exception being when I go somewhere purely to go on the beer for a weekend and don't leave the pubs then even a small place you don't need a car as you aren't going to be doing any travelling around.

Ha ha another person taking about light rail. What a total and absolute waste of money which would serve a tiny number of people incomparision to the massive number both inside and outside the city that a bypass would serve. There are a few pathetic signs up around the city trying to drum up support for light rail, talking total and utter nonsense. They amuse and annoy me in equal measure.

Spent a few days in Killarney two years ago. Got the bus, rented bikes, cycled around the national park, out to Torc, kayaked on the lakes and walked anywhere else. Didnt need a car.

Electric Sheep

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

Ha ha another person taking about light rail. What a total and absolute waste of money which would serve a tiny number of people incomparision to the massive number both inside and outside the city that a bypass would serve. There are a few pathetic signs up around the city trying to drum up support for light rail, talking total and utter nonsense. They amuse and annoy me in equal measure.

I completely agree, we should stop spending any money on those places with low populations, it is a total waste.

Electric Sheep

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I completely agree, we should stop spending any money on those places with low populations, it is a total waste.

We need to spend more providing for areas outside the city with low populations not less. What is a waste is spending massive amounts of money on a light rail that will benefit a small number of people living in specific areas of the city rather than than the massive amount of people the bypass will benefit both in the city and around the county. There is a serious anti-county and anti-rural bias from a number of people in here.

John_Rambo

Anne Handsome Sawhorse wrote: »

We need to spend more providing for areas outside the city with low populations not less. What is a waste is spending massive amounts of money on a light rail that will benefit a small number of people living in specific areas of the city rather than than the massive amount of people the bypass will benefit both in the city and around the county. There is a serious anti-county and anti-rural bias from a number of people in here.

There's already money pouring out of the cities to subsidise peoples lifestyles in rural areas. There's a serious anti-urban attitude coming from you. And, I'll remind you that you're on the Galway City forum. The cities are the backbone of Ireland, the economic powerhouses, they pay for everything, no money comes from rural areas in to the cities.

It's about time the cities started investing in themselves and the people that live in them. Of course a light rail system would be beneficial to the city, and anything good for the cities is good for the country.

Electric Sheep

John_Rambo wrote: »

There's already money pouring out of the cities to subsidise peoples lifestyles in rural areas. There's a serious anti-urban attitude coming from you. And, I'll remind you that you're on the Galway City forum. The cities are the backbone of Ireland, the economic powerhouses, they pay for everything, no money comes from rural areas in to the cities.

It's about time the cities started investing in themselves and the people that live in them. Of course a light rail system would be beneficial to the city, and anything good for the cities is good for the country.

Nox doesn't "live" in Galway, he lives "at home" in his parents house. He just "stays" in Galway in a house share for his work. He has no interest in what is good for the town, only what is good for his pocket and his convenience.