This country is turning very right wing....

RDM_83 again

I don't think it has to be honest. Whats happened is a this.

- There is a group of people that have pretty much bought whole heartedly into the SJW/PC thing, I know people seem to hate those terms but honestly if somebody is banging on about the latest social justice issue thats on trend or is offended on others behalf what other descriptor should we use, these terms catch on because they fit, plenty of other Americanisms (or Britishisms) don't.
If you think a country where the protest vote has gone to the left wing parties, gay marriage was endorsed by a majority of the population and we're governed by centerists in general has turned very right wing, your wrong whats happened is you've turned very left wing.

- A lot of people have realised that various advocacy groups and privileged persons in society and the media do not have the best interests of the common Irish man or women at heart, shaming type arguments have less power because they are overused. Some luvvie in RTE on hundreds of grand a year doesn't give a sh-t about wage deflation or increased competition for limited resources/employment they care about presenting a "caring" image (similar to a charity/advocacy person who is dependent on these things to pay their own wages)

- Our justice system is currently very lenient, I don't believe in capital punishment, I do believe though that if you stab somebody to death you should be charged with murder or if you have 100+ convictions your probably best in jail. Thats not a right wing opinion, its realistic and there is even a progressive argument that longer jail sentences rather than a revolving door means that rehabilitation can actually occur.

- In terms of complaining about people playing welfare, its not the rich that complain loudest about this its the people that are in the economic group just above, why do they complain, because they know the system is open to abuse because they live beside the people that abuse it. Now I think that our strong social safety net is one of the best endorsements for our country but the system is abused by some.

The_Valeyard

If everyone just agrees with me, it will all be fine.

Huntergonzo

The_Valeyard wrote: »

If everyone just agrees with me, it will all be fine.

I disagree :-)

Sweetemotion

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I disagree :-)

Shut up, you...

mcmoustache

tomofson wrote: »

I'm sorry I am just seeing a reality, Left wing politics attracts more open minded caring kind hearted people. While right wing politics attracts the more angry elitist racist homophobic Islamophobic hate filled people.... I'm sorry if you dont like it but thats just how both sides of the coin work by nature.

Ever seen the anti-fa crowd? Or some student protests?

I can assure you that there are violent prigs on both wings. When you pick a side, convince yourself of your righteousness and see the opposite side as evil, it's not a big stretch to justify violence.

tomofson

Bdylo wrote: »

You're not seeing reality. And if you believe every left winger is a lovely person who truly believes in equality then you are naive.

Every true left winger believes in equality by nature. I am not saying someone with a different agenda cant manipulate their way into left wing politics but that person would not be a true left winger.

Samaris

I suspect that this is common all over Europe. Societies tend to turn in on themselves and radicalise a bit during harsh times, and a long recession, plus the ISIS business, plus immigrant discussions is just about tailor-made to encourage a right-wing attitude (generally speaking). It's similar as to how America reputedly tends to vote Democrat in times of peace and Republican in times of war.

Europe as a whole (plus the US) have been hit hard by recession and war (terrorism in this case), and we're seeing the rise in dissatisfaction in terms of more radical parties gaining traction - Sinn Fein, UKIP, Britain First, Sverigedemokratna (probably spelled that wrong), Golden Dawn (Greece), Alternative for Germany, National Front (France, Marine Le Pen's lot), Party for Freedom (Geert Wilders, Netherlands)*, Jobbik (Hungary), Freedom Party (Austria).

On top of that, you will tend to notice a generational swing in attitudes, with a generation more to one side and then the next to the other - the Roaring Twenties and depressed Thirties/Forties, more liberal again in the 50s-80s, and while generally more liberal than the 1950s, a slight conservative turn in the late 1980s-90s, then liberal again, and now swinging to conservative. This is very loosely generalised, mind you, and the heavy impact the War and rationing/recessions took in the 1940s and 1980s I reckon have more of an impact than generational swing. Boom period in the 1990s, crashing again in the late 2000s.


Overall, fairly natural swings, most heavily influenced by economic welfare and how peaceful it is. And, of course, the internet makes the opinions louder.

*Both Le Pen and Wilders were heard from over Brexit's fallout.

Richard Hillman

The liberal media and the Far-Left has suppressed and polarized opinions and issues.

The media surpressment has angered people. The Far left's vilification has pushed people to more extreme opinions.

Sweetemotion

mcmoustache wrote: »

Ever seen the anti-fa crowd? Or some student protests?

I can assure you that there are violent prigs on both wings. When you pick a side, convince yourself of your righteousness and see the opposite side as evil, it's not a big stretch to justify violence.

gandalf

I actually disagree totally with the OP. This country has always been Centre Right and if anything is moving more towards the mild left. I grew up in the 70's & 80's and the country has come on leaps and bounds since those times.

The change is the extremities of both sides are capable of getting their voices heard these days whereas in the past they would have had a very limited reach.

Is Ireland a better country than it was 30-40 years ago, absolutely. What I find interesting is the increasing throwing around of labels by some on both sides of the political spectrum rather than actually debating and defending their relative positions.

I'm like a lot of people in Ireland. I hold some more right leaning views but also left leaning on other issues. I do firmly believe that the whole political system in Ireland needs to be overhauled especially with regard to the way we elect our National Representatives.

The_Valeyard

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I disagree :-)

That's it


Pistols at noon.

tomofson

gandalf wrote: »

I actually disagree totally with the OP. This country has always been Centre Right and if anything is moving more towards the mild left. I grew up in the 70's & 80's and the country has come on leaps and bounds since those times.

The change is the extremities of both sides are capable of getting their voices heard these days whereas in the past they would have had a very limited reach.

Is Ireland a better country than it was 30-40 years ago, absolutely. What I find interesting is the increasing throwing around of labels by some on both sides of the political spectrum rather than actually debating and defending their relative positions.

I'm like a lot of people in Ireland. I hold some more right leaning views but also left leaning on other issues. I do firmly believe that the whole political system in Ireland needs to be overhauled especially with regard to the way we elect our National Representatives.

I dont think Ireland has ever been right wing. Well maybe in the very early days of the nations independence but it has been left wing for far more years than it ever was right wing. If the american right seen Ireland in the 70s and 80s they would think it was all but a communist nation... We always had good healthcare and reasonably good housing for most of the years. I know the tenements where there but we done our best to fix that problem fairly fastish.

Letree

Most people are sheep. When the wind was blowing left they were on that side now the winds have changed a little after the madness of merkel inviting millions to europe and the taharrush carry on the non thinkers have moved a little to the right.

mcmoustache

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That was great. Thanks for that.

gandalf

tomofson wrote: »

I dont think Ireland has ever been right wing. Well maybe in the very early days of the nations independence but it has been left wing for far more years than it ever was right wing. If the american right seen Ireland in the 70s and 80s they would think it was all but a communist nation... We always had good healthcare and reasonably good housing for most of the years. I know the tenements where there but we done our best to fix that problem fairly fastish.

I think you are fantasising a bit about the Health Service while these days it is a complete and utter mess even back in the 70's and 80's it wasn't great.

Socially we were extremely backward. Condoms were only allowed to be purchased without a prescription from 1992 onwards, divorce was only legalised from 1996, Gay marriage last year and women still don't have the choice on what happens with their bodies.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

God forbid expecting people to provide for themselves. Imagine, the horror! We're all monsters.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

tomofson

Grayson wrote: »

That's not what it is. People have no problem with someone being held accountable for their actions. Islamaphobia is where people think something bad about someone just because they are muslim. The reason that these phrases exist is because there is a lot of politically motivated action against Muslims. In Germany there's a political party against them. In the US there's a presidential candidate who says they should be banned from entering the US. It's not wrong to say that a Muslim who's done something wrong should be punished, it's wrong to preemptively punish someone when they've done nothing wrong except be a Muslim.

Meanwhile people like Trump who are actively agitating against innocent people claim that it's the pc left who are making a hoopla.

The Muslim bashing really is sickening, but in certain parts of the world like the US and some european nations its actually big business. People seem to be attracted to it for some reason look at some of the anti islam groups in america who only focus on that one little issue despite the hundreds of other more relevant issues they could be focusing on and see how much support they get. Pam Geller and Rober Spencer to name just two that I know of. That is all these people talk about and the right wing flocks to them even though they cant talk about anything else. It would actually be more in american interests to talk about workplace accidents or gun control because of the amount of lives caused by those issues rather than muslim extremism but for some reason those issues dont have the same pull....

Eramen

This isn't the 1990's anymore, I don't know why people keep acting as if it still was, because Europe has changed, it has simply moved on from the de facto / dominant neo-liberal policies of the past. Such politics are now regarded as an abject failure by the masses and increasingly too by academics. The left still have not realised this fact. At times I think they may not understand how demographics work, especially in the long term.

On the other hand the right are capitalising on the legitimate concerns of the people including; mass-immigration, national tax burdens, the EU superstate, obtuse social polices, SJW culture, etc.

The left have instead chosen to live in an incoherent fantasy and feel the need to continually berate anybody who refuses to tow the establishment line. However the right are the new counter-culture, and there is 'no such thing' as young liberals anymore. That says it all. We are living through a new political era where social and political rebellion is centered firmly on what is termed the 'alternative right'.

tomofson

Eramen wrote: »

This isn't the 1990's anymore, I don't know why people keep acting as if it still was, because Europe has changed, it has simply moved on from the de facto / dominant neo-liberal policies. Such politics are now regarded as an abject failure by the masses and increasingly too by academics. The left still have not realised this fact. They don't understand how demographics work.

On the other hand the right are capitalising on the legitimate concerns of the people including; mass-immigration, national tax burdens, the EU superstate, obtuse social polices, SJW culture, etc.

The left have instead chosen to live in an incoherent fantasy and feel the need to continually berate anybody who refuses to tow the establishment line. The right are the new counter-culture, and there is no such thing as young liberals anymore. That says it all. We are living through a new political era.

There is no such thing as young liberals anymore??? Em I'm 24

JustTheOne

I think a lot of people are confused in this country.

I have had to remind a good few sf supporters that they are a party advocating open borders as this is what the left is about.

They couldn't believe it.

Most of the we can't look after our own brigade don't understand the left stands for open borders yet they follow sf/AAA PBP with such passion.

Confused people.

tomofson

JustTheOne wrote: »

I think a lot of people are confused in this country.

I have had to remind a good few sf supporters that they are a party advocating open borders as this is what the left is about.

They couldn't believe it.

Most of the we can't look after our own brigade don't understand the left stands for open borders yet they follow sf/AAA PBP with such passion.

Confused people.

Your talking pony

JustTheOne

tomofson wrote: »

Your talking pony

Elaborate?

tomofson

JustTheOne wrote: »

Elaborate?

Left wing are not for open borders thats a right wing stereotype

HamsterFace

tomofson wrote:

There is no such thing as young liberals anymore??? Em I'm 24

Well that explains your simplistic views on left = all the good things, right = all the bad things.

I was there before young grasshopper

lawlolawl

JustTheOne wrote: »

Elaborate?

He wants to see your talking pony.

Sweetemotion

JustTheOne wrote: »

I think a lot of people are confused in this country.

I have had to remind a good few sf supporters that they are a party advocating open borders as this is what the left is about.

They couldn't believe it.

Most of the we can't look after our own brigade don't understand the left stands for open borders yet they follow sf/AAA PBP with such passion.

Confused people.

JustTheOne

tomofson wrote: »

Left wing are not for open borders thats a right wing stereotype

Em yes they are.

Read sfs manifesto, it's in there. We advocate open borders.

DEFTLEFTHAND

tomofson wrote: »

Left wing are not for open borders thats a right wing stereotype

Elements of the Far Left are for open borders. Take the the marxist group 'No Borders' for instance.

tomofson

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Elements of the Far Left are for open borders. Take the the marxist group 'No Borders' for instance.

But its not a necessity within left wing politics.

Annasopra

tomofson wrote: »

I think its fairly obvious that right wing is aggression

Actually I think far right and far left are equally agressive

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Actually I think far right and far left are equally agressive

Yes, two sides of the same coin.

osarusan

I think both left and right extremes have become more shrill, or maybe there are just more avenues for them to make their voices heard.

Both seem to absolutely love the delusion that they are the most persecuted and oppressed of all, and they are the lone voice of sanity, beleaguered by all the conspirators around them.

Annasopra

tomofson wrote: »

Your talking pony

Do you actually have an argument

Anyway the point is essentially correct - a lot of SF voters would consider themselves left wing but not support open borders

mohawk

tomofson wrote: »

Left wing are not for open borders thats a right wing stereotype

This feels kinda awkward, open borders is more of a left wing thing.

tomofson

mohawk wrote: »

This feels kinda awkward, open borders is more of a left wing thing.

I already said its not a necessity for left wing politics

Annasopra

tomofson wrote: »

But its not a necessity within left wing politics.

tomofson wrote: »

I already said its not a necessity for left wing politics

Nobody said it is.

But generally most left wing politicians and parties would support more open border positions.

tomofson

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nobody said it is.

But generally most left wing politicians and parties would support more open border positions.

Its a concept we can agree and disagree on

Annasopra

tomofson wrote: »

Its a concept we can agree and disagree on

What's the disagreement?

All you're saying is open borders is not a necessity for left wing politics but that's just a statement. You're not really elaborating at all on your statement.

tomofson

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What's the disagreement?

All you're saying is open borders is not a necessity for left wing politics but that's just a statement. You're not really elaborating at all on your statement.

No thats a fact there are left wing leaned people who are both for and against.

Annasopra

tomofson wrote: »

No thats a fact there are left wing leaned people who are both for and against.

Yes but that doesn't mean much really.

The vast majority of left politicians and parties would be more in favour.

tomofson

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yes but that doesn't mean much really.

The vast majority of left politicians and parties would be more in favour.

Okay well we'll agree to disagree.

kupus

The country has not swung right. I don't know where your getting that idea. It's gone corporate.

Bs Training schemes to massage dole figures. The kinda one that tells you how to turn a computer on.

A full on justice industry that is just a money go round for lawyers psychologists social workers etc.

A health industry that services its workers instead of patients.

A building industry that just keeps on digging holes for itself and rewarding itself nicely.

Politicians that can create a business in hours and have it in profitability in a matter of hours.

A health and safety industry that's gone beyond a joke. You need a bloody cert now to step on a site

Any of you people tried to open a business recently. There's more rules and regulations thrown at you that you have to concentrate more on them than your business idea.

A farming industry that is basically slave labour for the factories and supermarkets.

A media industry that is so corrupted with the main players more concerned about friendships than news that it reminds me of some old commie countries.

Insurance companies taking the piss. Car retailers setting the agenda for years to come by dictating policy to get rid of the small indie dealers.
Just like the supermarkets and factories telling farmers to get bigger or else.


It costs too much to deal with smaller companies and farmers. Why not get rid of them, and that's what is happening In Front of your very eyes..
And that is what's happening slowly and surely. To every type of business in Ireland. And it's not only in Ireland. It's the world over.

Multinationals have figured that it's too costly to deal with small businesses. They want to deal with big ones that they don't have to waste time money and resources.

Welcome to the new world. You may find your place in it. But a lot of people won't. But just remember just cos you found your place doesn't mean your kids will.

I know My post is a bit all over the place but I'm enjoying an ice cold chech beer called chotebor after a very very long ****ing day.

Annasopra

tomofson wrote: »

Okay well we'll agree to disagree.

On what though?

You're not disproving anything

The Backwards Man

I don't think it's changed at all, the yahoos in the pub that nobody ever listened to, from both sides, suddenly have a mainstream outlet. Once they get filtered out and everyone ignores them again, it will be same as it ever it was.

IrishCule

tomofson wrote: »

Okay well we'll agree to disagree.

Can you name a left wing party in any country which is not for open borders?

Your responses in the last few posts are confusing

SeanW

tomofson wrote: »

I think its fairly obvious that right wing is aggression

Yeah, because Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot were all peaceniks?

tomofson

IrishCule wrote: »

Can you name a left wing party in any country which is not for open borders?

Your responses in the last few posts are confusing

Not of the top of my head, sorry. and im finding the topic of open borders really boring as its not really one that interests me. But I am fairly certain I have heard left wingers argue against open borders in the past.

tomofson

SeanW wrote: »

Yeah, because Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot were all peaceniks?

Look over this thread and you will see that I explained how they where not really left wing to others.