Some advice needed re:dog nipping(?) a child

LozAnn

My GSD got off his lead in the garden and ran down the road. There were a few kids playing and they all started screaming and ran. The dog caught one of the kids on the arm with his mouth, I don't think he actually bit him as there wasn't much of a mark, although there was a small cut that was bleeding. The parents are insisting that the child was bitten and that we have to have the dog put down. They called the guards and the guards told us we should let the dust settle and see if they calm down. I was just wondering can they make us get the dog put down? Our dogs are never out except when they go for walks-on their leads. Thanks for any advice.

MFlack2012

LozAnn wrote: »

My GSD got off his lead in the garden and ran down the road. There were a few kids playing and they all started screaming and ran. The dog caught one of the kids on the arm with his mouth, I don't think he actually bit him as there wasn't much of a mark, although there was a small cut that was bleeding. The parents are insisting that the child was bitten and that we have to have the dog put down. They called the guards and the guards told us we should let the dust settle and see if they calm down. I was just wondering can they make us get the dog put down? Our dogs are never out except when they go for walks-on their leads. Thanks for any advice.

Oh my god, is all I can say. How dare you put any child in that situation and danger. You should be in control of an animal at all times as these are the very instances that arise and can turn fatal in an instant. If I were that parent I would insist on you being arrested for putting not only my child, but many children, in that kind of danger. I am a dog lover, but my children come first and all children would come before a pet. If I were you, I would be at the home of that child, apologising and begging forgiveness and asking if any medical bills need taken care of, not worrying about letting 'the dust settle'. If a dog is in that state of mind or in any way going to even snap at a child, I'd insist on it being put down too.

FortySeven

Dog should be put down. Sorry op, it is a no brainer.

AryaStark

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Oh my god, is all I can say. How dare you put any child in that situation and danger. You should be in control of an animal at all times as these are the very instances that arise and can turn fatal in an instant. If I were that parent I would insist on you being arrested for putting not only my child, but many children, in that kind of danger. I am a dog lover, but my children come first and all children would come before a pet. If I were you, I would be at the home of that child, apologising and begging forgiveness and asking if any medical bills need taken care of, not worrying about letting 'the dust settle'. If a dog is in that state of mind or in any way going to even snap at a child, I'd insist on it being put down too.

This is a little bit unfair. The op did say that the dog got out by mistake and he is trying to deal with it.

From what I know the parents of the child cannot insist that the dog is out down. It was the owners fault that he got out not the dogs. I am sure that if the police advise to let things cool down then the child was not savaged. I hope that the child is ok and I also hope that the dog is ok.

OP Maybe look into why he got out and make sure that you take steps to ensure that it does not happen again.

Sleeper12

MFlack2012 wrote:

Oh my god, is all I can say. How dare you put any child in that situation and danger. You should be in control of an animal at all times as these are the very instances that arise and can turn fatal in an instant. If I were that parent I would insist on you being arrested for putting not only my child, but many children, in that kind of danger. I am a dog lover, but my children come first and all children would come before a pet. If I were you, I would be at the home of that child, apologising and begging forgiveness and asking if any medical bills need taken care of, not worrying about letting 'the dust settle'. If a dog is in that state of mind or in any way going to even snap at a child, I'd insist on it being put down too.

Overreact much???

FortySeven

I grew up with dogs, multiples of them. Once a dog has bitten, it will do it again. I love dogs, I hate to see one put down but this dog broke skin.

It's not about whether the kids parents should have the power, op has to shoulder the burden of responsibility here and get the dog put to sleep. No question.

Sittingpretty

Someone call the over reaction police!

Of course the dog shouldn't be euthanised. Dogs "mouth" during play, it sounds like the GSDs were beig playful and someone got a scrape. I'm open to correction on this. If the dog actually attacked then that's a different kettle of fish.

The guards are right. Allow the dust to settle and offer to cover any medical costs.

In the meantime ensure that your dogs cannot escape your property.

Cork Lass

LozAnn wrote: »

My GSD got off his lead in the garden and ran down the road. There were a few kids playing and they all started screaming and ran. The dog caught one of the kids on the arm with his mouth, I don't think he actually bit him as there wasn't much of a mark, although there was a small cut that was bleeding. The parents are insisting that the child was bitten and that we have to have the dog put down. They called the guards and the guards told us we should let the dust settle and see if they calm down. I was just wondering can they make us get the dog put down? Our dogs are never out except when they go for walks-on their leads. Thanks for any advice.

To be fair if the skin was broken and the child was bleeding then your dog bit the child. I have 2 dogs myself so understand how much we care for our pets but children must come first. Also, your dog escaped and caused this problem, the child didn't taunt him/her. I'd have serious concerns about that dog.

MFlack2012

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Someone call the over reaction police!

Of course the dog shouldn't be euthanised. Dogs "mouth" during play, it sounds like the GSDs were beig playful and someone got a scrape. I'm open to correction on this. If the dog actually attacked then that's a different kettle of fish.

The guards are right. Allow the dust to settle and offer to cover any medical costs.

In the meantime ensure that your dogs cannot escape your property.

"{the dog} ran down the road. There were a few kids playing and they all started screaming and ran. The dog caught one of the kids on the arm with his mouth...."

If the dog ran down the road at/towards the children this is an aggressive act and let alone children, I myself, would run and scream and be afraid. This would be correct be it a small dog, seeing a huge GSD running for you is terrifying. Think of this as a small child unable to escape (which the child wasn't as it bit him/her).

I as a parent would be furious and the dust would never settle. As the dog owner, I would do everything in my power to not downplay the situation and be as helpful and concerned as I could be. Saying that you 'don't think' the child was bitten is ridiculous. Thankfully the child wasn't savaged. As a parent, I am horrified that any child was put in this position. As a nurse, I would now be concerned with this child's aftercare. As the skin was broken, this child needs to now be taken to hospital (another terrifying experience for a child), get a tetanus shot to prevent infection from your dog (injections for a child are also terrifying) and the child may be now terrified of dogs for life, suffer nightmares, bed wetting, PTSD etc etc. Fully depending on how old this child was, this can have serious ramifications for a child and this was all caused by you, the pet owner, because you did not do your utmost best to secure this pet. Be it an accident that the dog got loose, it is your fault. It is not the dog's fault. But yes, I would insist the dog be put down too, to not only safeguard my child, but other children also.

Kovu

The dog escaped, which means he is usually secured and this should be a once off incident. If the kids started screaming and ran, the dog would have been caught up in all the excitement of being loose and thinking they were playthings.
Definitely should not be put down for a minor first offence but training & behaviour management should be looked at. If he escapes and does the exact same thing again, then yes they should think about euthanasia or rehoming to an area where he can't get free and there are no kids or animals for him to react to.

drunkmonkey

Do lots of mouth play with the dog, make sure they know they've done something wrong if they grip too hard don't hit the dog, how old is the dog, what type of dog is it?

MFlack2012

Kovu wrote: »

The dog escaped, which means he is usually secured and this should be a once off incident. If the kids started screaming and ran, the dog would have been caught up in all the excitement of being loose and thinking they were playthings.
Definitely should not be put down for a minor first offence. If he escapes and does the exact same thing again, then yes they should think about euthanasia or rehoming to an area where he can't get free and there are no kids or animals for him to react to.

Are you suggesting the OP wait until this animal attacks and bites again? What if next time, the dog jumps on a new-born in a pram? attacks a toddler? Goes ballistic? Next time, is what you need to prevent from happening. This time it wasn't prevented and caused bodily harm to a child. If the dog did this again, the OP deserves to be put down!

Dubl07

Over-reactions aside, the kids were undoubtedly distressed and the parents worried and annoyed. Perhaps it might help to offer to have a properly qualified behaviourist assess your dog and involve the parents and child if they're willing in a session or two of training. Children who are unused to dogs don't have a clue what to do when a dog runs at them.

runawaybishop

Kovu wrote: »

The dog escaped, which means he is usually secured and this should be a once off incident. If the kids started screaming and ran, the dog would have been caught up in all the excitement of being loose and thinking they were playthings.
Definitely should not be put down for a minor first offence. If he escapes and does the exact same thing again, then yes they should think about euthanasia or rehoming to an area where he can't get free and there are no kids or animals for him to react to.

If he escaped and attacks a kid again they should close the stable door?

Op, you'd want to be awful certain your dog didn't actually bite that kid and that's impossible for it to get out of control ever again or you'd be liable for some serious trouble. Not a nice situation to be in.

Sittingpretty

MFlack2012 wrote: »

"{the dog} ran down the road. There were a few kids playing and they all started screaming and ran. The dog caught one of the kids on the arm with his mouth...."

If the dog ran down the road at/towards the children this is an aggressive act and let alone children, I myself, would run and scream and be afraid. This would be correct be it a small dog, seeing a huge GSD running for you is terrifying. Think of this as a small child unable to escape (which the child wasn't as it bit him/her).

I as a parent would be furious and the dust would never settle. As the dog owner, I would do everything in my power to not downplay the situation and be as helpful and concerned as I could be. Saying that you 'don't think' the child was bitten is ridiculous. Thankfully the child wasn't savaged. As a parent, I am horrified that any child was put in this position. As a nurse, I would now be concerned with this child's aftercare. As the skin was broken, this child needs to now be taken to hospital (another terrifying experience for a child), get a tetanus shot to prevent infection from your dog (injections for a child are also terrifying) and the child may be now terrified of dogs for life, suffer nightmares, bed wetting, PTSD etc etc. Fully depending on how old this child was, this can have serious ramifications for a child and this was all caused by you, the pet owner, because you did not do your utmost best to secure this pet. Be it an accident that the dog got loose, it is your fault. It is not the dog's fault. But yes, I would insist the dog be put down too, to not only safeguard my child, but other children also.

Still think there's a high over reaction here.

I own a GSD. They have a high prey drive, if something runs they will give chase. It doesn't mean they will savage a child. As in this case the child wasn't savaged. He/she got a scrape.

If the dog is normally secured and this was a once off occurrence I don't see why the dog should be euthanised.

I do agree though that dog owners should ensure it doesn't reoccur and that they cover any costs incurred by the child's parents.

Kovu

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Are you suggesting the OP wait until this animal attacks and bites again? What if next time, the dog jumps on a new-born in a pram? attacks a toddler? Goes ballistic? Next time, is what you need to prevent from happening. This time it wasn't prevented and caused bodily harm to a child. If the dog did this again, the OP deserves to be put down!

Sorry I just came back to edit my post before this to add in about also seeing a behaviourist or attend training to make sure it does not happen again. Combining that with ensuring the dog does not get free again would be a solution. And I say this as a child who was bitten by bogs. No PTSD or trauma here.....

MFlack2012

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Still think there's a high over reaction here.

I own a GSD. They have a high prey drive, if something runs they will give chase. It doesn't mean they will savage a child. As in this case the child wasn't savaged. He/she got a scrape.

If the dog is normally secured and this was a once off occurrence I don't see why the dog should be euthanised.

I do agree though that dog owners should ensure it doesn't reoccur and that they cover any costs incurred by the child's parents.

The Definition of Bite: to cut, wound, or tear with the teeth; to grip or hold with the teeth; to sever with the teeth; to clamp the teeth firmly on or around.

The Definition of Scrape: to rub harshly on or across; to draw or rub (a thing) roughly across something:

As a Nurse, if the skin was broken with bleeding this is a bite. As a dog lover, no one would want to see a pet harmed. As a parent my first instinct is protection of my child.

The_Mac

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Oh my god, is all I can say. How dare you put any child in that situation and danger. You should be in control of an animal at all times as these are the very instances that arise and can turn fatal in an instant. If I were that parent I would insist on you being arrested for putting not only my child, but many children, in that kind of danger. I am a dog lover, but my children come first and all children would come before a pet. If I were you, I would be at the home of that child, apologising and begging forgiveness and asking if any medical bills need taken care of, not worrying about letting 'the dust settle'. If a dog is in that state of mind or in any way going to even snap at a child, I'd insist on it being put down too.

Good thing you're completely perfect and have never made a mistake in your life. Do you also insist to speak to the manager of a shop if you think the employee is being rude?

MFlack2012

Kovu wrote: »

Sorry I just came back to edit my post before this to add in about also seeing a behaviourist or attend training to make sure it does not happen again. Combining that with ensuring the dog does not get free again would be a solution. And I say this as a child who was bitten by bogs. No PTSD or trauma here.....

You got very lucky. I have had many a patient that has suffered a lot more than PTSD, trauma, infection, months of hospital care. Thankfully this little boy/girl was not very seriously injured. Although they were injured and all actions t insure that does not happen again is the OP's responsibility.

Dubl07

Kovu wrote: »

Sorry I just came back to edit my post before this to add in about also seeing a behaviourist or attend training to make sure it does not happen again. Combining that with ensuring the dog does not get free again would be a solution. And I say this as a child who was bitten by dogs. No PTSD or trauma here.....

(fyp)

I was bitten by my grandparents' dog when I was three or four. He was put down. I was horrified when, a few years later, I saw a photo of me and the JRT playing together and found out what happened to him. The destruction of a lovely animal bothered me (and continues to) much more than what was apparently a minor nip. I was the first grandchild so he wasn't used to children. A bit of time and effort in teaching both child and dog in our case would have been of benefit to us all. Whiplash decisions are often unhelpful.

MFlack2012

The_Mac wrote: »

Good thing you're completely perfect and have never made a mistake in your life. Do you also insist to speak to the manager of a shop if you think the employee is being rude?

Don't see what this statement has to do with anything to do with the Op's post, but... I have made many a mistake in my life, never have I done harm to another person. Actually yes, I would .

Sleeper12

MFlack2012 wrote:

As a Nurse, if the skin was broken with bleeding this is a bite. As a dog lover, no one would want to see a pet harmed. As a parent my first instinct is protection of my child.

I've scrapped myself hundreds of times breaking the skin causing bleeding. In fact hundreds of times without a dog being present. As a nurse you're seriously suggesting that I've been bitten hundreds of times by dogs without knowing???

HanaleiJ5N

OP, I don't like the denial that the dog bit, it did, how else do you suggest blood was drawn? Learn the lesson, control the dog properly now you know what it is capable of. I think the gardai gave good advice, let it blow over. But the parents will understandably be keeping a close eye now, any more slip ups and the fallout will be worse next time. I know mistakes happen but you need to take ownership of this in order to learn from it. A bite is a bite, you can do your part to ensure it doesn't happen again. I hope you don't have to put it down, good luck and be more vigilant going forward!!

borderlinemeath

MFlack2012 wrote: »

"{the dog} ran down the road. There were a few kids playing and they all started screaming and ran. The dog caught one of the kids on the arm with his mouth...."

If the dog ran down the road at/towards the children this is an aggressive act and let alone children, I myself, would run and scream and be afraid. This would be correct be it a small dog, seeing a huge GSD running for you is terrifying. Think of this as a small child unable to escape (which the child wasn't as it bit him/her).

I as a parent would be furious and the dust would never settle. As the dog owner, I would do everything in my power to not downplay the situation and be as helpful and concerned as I could be. Saying that you 'don't think' the child was bitten is ridiculous. Thankfully the child wasn't savaged. As a parent, I am horrified that any child was put in this position. As a nurse, I would now be concerned with this child's aftercare. As the skin was broken, this child needs to now be taken to hospital (another terrifying experience for a child), get a tetanus shot to prevent infection from your dog (injections for a child are also terrifying) and the child may be now terrified of dogs for life, suffer nightmares, bed wetting, PTSD etc etc. Fully depending on how old this child was, this can have serious ramifications for a child and this was all caused by you, the pet owner, because you did not do your utmost best to secure this pet. Be it an accident that the dog got loose, it is your fault. It is not the dog's fault. But yes, I would insist the dog be put down too, to not only safeguard my child, but other children also.

Would you ever calm down? Honestly, it's no wonder kids run screaming from dogs if the adults react as you yourself has.

OP, your dog may have nipped a child, be that through playing or over exuberance, or the excitement of the chase, he still caused damage. In your defence he didn't attack the child, nor did the child require hospitalisation. So even if he did intentionally nip the child, he showed bite inhibition. This should stand to you if the parents want to follow through and try and get a destruction order for your dog.

I would make sure you have everything in order for your dog, make sure his licence is up to date, that he's microchipped and the details registered to you, that you have a muzzle and a short lead (requirements for walking an RB) and that your garden is 110% secure so that he can never escape again. Get a dog run if you have to, or keep him inside the house. I know accidents can happen but you need to ensure that it NEVER happens again. I would definitely get a behavioural check done, before it's even asked of you by the authorities, you need to be proactive in ensuring that your dog isn't a threat or a danger to anybody and that this was a one off accident.

Sittingpretty

MFlack2012 wrote: »

The Definition of Bite: to cut, wound, or tear with the teeth; to grip or hold with the teeth; to sever with the teeth; to clamp the teeth firmly on or around.

The Definition of Scrape: to rub harshly on or across; to draw or rub (a thing) roughly across something:

As a Nurse, if the skin was broken with bleeding this is a bite. As a dog lover, no one would want to see a pet harmed. As a parent my first instinct is protection of my child.

Every parent's first instinct is the protection of their child.

Reads to me like your first instinct is hysteria.

I don't require the definition of basic words.

I don't think in this instance (given what the OP described) the pet should be euthanised, you clearly do. We'll have to agree to disagree.

FortySeven

Dubl07 wrote: »

(fyp)

I was bitten by my grandparents' dog when I was three or four. He was put down. I was horrified when, a few years later, I saw a photo of me and the JRT playing together and found out what happened to him. The destruction of a lovely animal bothered me (and continues to) much more than what was apparently a minor nip. I was the first grandchild so he wasn't used to children. A bit of time and effort in teaching both child and dog in our case would have been of benefit to us all. Whiplash decisions are often unhelpful.

We had a German shepherd who was a family pet, one of five dogs we had. One day he turned around and bit a large chunk out of my little brothers face. He was 6. He had always been a dog that nipped a bit.

His offspring (we bred them, pedigree) went on to savage a postman. Both were put down. I was devastated then but I see the sense in it now.

MFlack2012

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've scrapped myself hundreds of times breaking the skin causing bleeding. In fact hundreds of times without a dog being present. As a nurse you're seriously suggesting that I've been bitten hundreds of times by dogs without knowing???

That's called an abrasion not a scrape and not a bite. A bite involves teeth.

DBB

MFlack2012
I appreciate your concerns... I'm sure everyone does. But your posts are just a bit too hysterical, and are going to cause arguments, which will certainly result in this thread being closed.
So, might I ask you, and all other posters, to keep it calm, civilised, rational, and minimise the scaremongering please.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thank you,
DBB

sunny2004

I think the sympathy should be with the child not the dog or the dogs owner..

If my daughter had a dogs mouth on her arm and there was blood I would consider that as the dog bit my daughter.

The OP needs to try and talk with the child's parents and work it out somehow.

drunkmonkey

That's my arm from just putting my arm in a friends door from gsd, he broke through an inch thick of a parka jacket, probably would have lost my arm if not for the jacket and the thickness of it.
If one of those is capable of biting I'd be getting it moved on, friend still has that dog that gripped me, I know he's going to do serious damage some day but it's my friends dog. I'm just never walking out to get the beers in the fridge again.

borderlinemeath

MFlack2012 wrote: »

The Definition of Bite: to cut, wound, or tear with the teeth; to grip or hold with the teeth; to sever with the teeth; to clamp the teeth firmly on or around.

The Definition of Scrape: to rub harshly on or across; to draw or rub (a thing) roughly across something:

As a Nurse, if the skin was broken with bleeding this is a bite. As a dog lover, no one would want to see a pet harmed. As a parent my first instinct is protection of my child.

A dog with sharp claws jumped up on my leg last week, it caused a scratch with a small bit of bleeding and I still have a bruise. He caused me to bleed, yet he did not bite.

Cork Lass

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've scrapped myself hundreds of times breaking the skin causing bleeding. In fact hundreds of times without a dog being present. As a nurse you're seriously suggesting that I've been bitten hundreds of times by dogs without knowing???

In all fairness this is a ridiculous comment. She was speaking about the child being bitten by the dog as opposed to being nipped/ scratched. If you're going to comment at least make a sensible comment.

MFlack2012

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's my arm from just putting my arm in a friends door from gsd, he broke through an inch thick of a parka jacket, probably would have lost my arm if not for the jacket and the thickness of it.
If one of those is capable of biting I'd be getting it moved on, friend still has that dog that gripped me, I know he's going to do serious damage some day but it's my friends dog. I'm just never walking out to get the beers in the fridge again.

I've seen a lot of the same, as an adult, looking at the damage it caused you, I now consider what the same injury would do to a child.

I am not scaremongering, or trying too. I am stating a professional opinion and informing the OP of what that child faces now.

irishlady29

You know your dog. If you feel the dog behaved in an aggressive manner and is likely to act in the same way again, then in my opinion the choices you have are 1) make absolute certain that the dog does not get the oppourtunity to behave like this again, never off the lead, maybe get that collar thing that stops them roaming 2) get the dog assessed by a highly qualified trainer to establish if the dog has an aggressive streak 3) rehome the dog in an environment where there is no risk of him hurting some body.
Personally, I don't think the dog should be out down.

MFlack2012

borderlinemeath wrote: »

A dog with sharp claws jumped up on my leg last week, it caused a scratch with a small bit of bleeding and I still have a bruise. He caused me to bleed, yet he did not bite.

It's claws don't bite as they don't have teeth

Sleeper12

MFlack2012 wrote:

That's called an abrasion not a scrape and not a bite. A bite involves teeth.

This whole argument is a bit silly but a bite has to involve the jaws closing motion. Its entirety possible for a dog to scrape with her teeth without biting. I don't see where Op says that the dog bit. There's a lot of assuming and drama here

Dubl07

FortySeven wrote: »

We had a German shepherd who was a family pet, one of five dogs we had. One day he turned around and bit a large chunk out of my little brothers face. He was 6. He had always been a dog that nipped a bit.

His offspring (we bred them, pedigree) went on to savage a postman. Both were put down. I was devastated then but I see the sense in it now.

Your poor brother. That's why dogs and children should be supervised, particularly dogs that have low tolerance for being mauled by children.

As for the rest, I've known many more GSDs who don't bite than that do, tbh. The biggest question I'd ask would be why breed from a nippy dog? Were there health checks done to see if pain was an issue? Pedigree GSDs spines and hips (show standard) make me wince. Aside from that, how the heck did two or more of his offspring gain access to a postman? Human management of breeding, training and control may have been part of the problem in your case. One small nip in the OP's instance does not equate to biting a family member's face, nor to 'savaging' a postman. A behaviourist will be able to assess matters much more clearly than a bunch of strangers on the internet.

drunkmonkey

I'm an adult if one bit a kid they'd have serious marks from brusing alone.

Sleeper12

Cork Lass wrote:

In all fairness this is a ridiculous comment. She was speaking about the child being bitten by the dog as opposed to being nipped/ scratched. If you're going to comment at least make a sensible comment.

In all fairness she is using her job a a nurse to try convince people that the wound was a bite without even seeing it. I was merely showing how ridiculous a statement she made.

A dog can easily break the skin on a child without biting.

MFlack2012

Sleeper12 wrote: »

In all fairness she is using her job a a nurse to try convince people that the wound was a bite without even seeing it. I was merely showing how ridiculous a statement she made.

A dog can easily break the skin on a child without biting.

A dog can easily break the skin without biting. This is not called a scrape. It is called an abrasion, cut or laceration. Depending on how it is formed, how deep it is and how far into the three layers of skin it reaches. A scrape does not break the skin, it just takes off the top layer. A bite is when the mouth and teeth break the skin. My job as a Nurse and four years of studying and working in a hospital environment allows me to understand the difference between all of these and state such differences.

borderlinemeath

MFlack2012 wrote: »

It's claws don't bite as they don't have teeth

I was replying to this:

As a Nurse, if the skin was broken with bleeding this is a bite.

As another poster has pointed out, if the dog did bite there would be extensive bruising. From the OP there was a scrape on the childs arm with a small bit of bleeding. You're imagining the worst case scenario where the child might have been savaged and assuming they need therapy for life because of it.

muddypaws

MFlack2012 wrote: »

A dog can easily break the skin without biting. This is not called a scrape. It is called an abrasion, cut or laceration. Depending on how it is formed, how deep it is and how far into the three layers of skin it reaches. A scrape does not break the skin, it just takes off the top layer. A bite is when the mouth and teeth break the skin. My job as a Nurse and four years of studying and working in a hospital environment allows me to understand the difference between all of these and state such differences.

Are you a nurse? You haven't mentioned it.

You haven't seen the wound, or read a report, so neither you, nor anyone else on this thread, except the op, know the extent of the injury.

I would have thought that 4 years of studying and working in a hospital environment would actually have taught you not to jump to conclusions, but to make statements based on evidence - thats how science works, and medicine is science.

MFlack2012

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I was replying to this:



As another poster has pointed out, if the dog did bite there would be extensive bruising. From the OP there was a scrape on the childs arm with a small bit of bleeding. You're imagining the worst case scenario where the child might have been savaged and assuming they need therapy for life because of it.

Not necessarily, you are assuming the worst case scenario. Bruising only happens when the blood vessels underneath the skin is damaged. As the dog bite was thankfully minimal this wouldn't occur. However that being said, nobody knows if the child did suffer this kind of damage as the OP never stated anything about bruising. Bruising doesn't always occur immediately following trauma either and can take a few days to be seen. I never suggested the child was savaged or needing therapy. Thankfully this wasn't the case and hopefully won't be.

Sleeper12

MFlack2012 wrote:

A dog can easily break the skin without biting. This is not called a scrape. It is called an abrasion, cut or laceration. Depending on how it is formed, how deep it is and how far into the three layers of skin it reaches. A scrape does not break the skin, it just takes off the top layer. A bite is when the mouth and teeth break the skin. My job as a Nurse and four years of studying and working in a hospital environment allows me to understand the difference between all of these and state such differences.

Your previous comment stated that as a nurse you deemed the wound to be a bite. You have not seen the wound & it's ridiculous to try insist it is a bite with out seeing it.

OP was looking for advice as to whether their dog could be put down.
There are a lot of high houses here tonight

MFlack2012

muddypaws wrote: »

Are you a nurse? You haven't mentioned it.

You haven't seen the wound, or read a report, so neither you, nor anyone else on this thread, except the op, know the extent of the injury.

I would have thought that 4 years of studying and working in a hospital environment would actually have taught you not to jump to conclusions, but to make statements based on evidence - thats how science works, and medicine is science.

I am yeah

I haven't, nope. You are exactly right and I never suggested I did, did I? I am merely stating facts about medical glossary of terms. Actually that is not true. The OP does not know the extent of the injury. Only the parents and Medical professional's treating this child know the extent of his/her injuries. The OP certainly doesn't.

Actually no, were are taught to consider all options and avenues. We are taught to treat what could happen as to prevent it e.g infection. That is why Tetanus shots are given, to prevent infection. Flu shots, to prevent flu, vaccinations to prevent diseases. That is how science works, theory, fact and conclusion.

MFlack2012

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your previous comment stated that as a nurse you deemed the wound to be a bite. You have not seen the wound & it's ridiculous to try insist it is a bite with out seeing it.

OP was looking for advice as to whether their dog could be put down.
There are a lot of high houses here tonight

Yes I would deem it to be a bite as the skin was broken by teeth. The OP stated that the dog's mouth caused injury to the child's arm. That is why we are calling it a bite. We don't have to see it to know that as truth.

kravmaga

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Oh my god, is all I can say. How dare you put any child in that situation and danger. You should be in control of an animal at all times as these are the very instances that arise and can turn fatal in an instant. If I were that parent I would insist on you being arrested for putting not only my child, but many children, in that kind of danger. I am a dog lover, but my children come first and all children would come before a pet. If I were you, I would be at the home of that child, apologising and begging forgiveness and asking if any medical bills need taken care of, not worrying about letting 'the dust settle'. If a dog is in that state of mind or in any way going to even snap at a child, I'd insist on it being put down too.

Don't be such an over emotional drama queen, it was a mistake, dog got off the lead, could happen to a bishop. The kids probably scared the dog by shouting.

OP I agree with the Garda assessment, let the dust settle, the dog should not be put down, way over the top reaction.

Dubl07

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Not necessarily, you are assuming the worst case scenario. Bruising only happens when the blood vessels underneath the skin is damaged. As the dog bite was thankfully minimal this wouldn't occur. However that being said, nobody knows if the child did suffer this kind of damage as the OP never stated anything about bruising. Bruising doesn't always occur immediately following trauma either and can take a few days to be seen. I never suggested the child was savaged or needing therapy. Thankfully this wasn't the case and hopefully won't be.

Dogs don't have hands and so most use their mouths as a major part of play. If the child in the original post had been scraped by another child's fingernail or stud on a soccer boot he could have a booboo and might have needed a tetanus shot. If there had been bruising of any significance, the gardai would most likely have been less sanguine about the incident.

In an ideal world the owner and parents in conjunction with a behaviourist could use the incident as a learning experience for themselves and a teaching opportunity for the child and any other neighbourhood kids who want to introduce themselves safely to the OP's dog. (Suitably muzzled and leashed if off the owners' property.)

muddypaws

OP, I would be guided by the Garda that were involved, as they obviously saw the child, spoke with the parents and other people, and if they are saying to let it settle, it would appear that they don't deem it a serious incident.

Can I ask why the dog was on a lead in the garden, were you about to walk him, or is your garden not secure?

I can imagine that you are feeling very worried and upset this evening, hopefully everything can be resolved without your dog being put to sleep.

njs030

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Yes I would deem it to be a bite as the skin was broken by teeth. The OP stated that the dog's mouth caused injury to the child's arm. That is why we are calling it a bite. We don't have to see it to know that as truth.

Ridiculous comment. My dog was running recently and somehow her open happy mouth skimmed my leg and caused a scratch that bled slightly. It happens.

You're talking complete rubbish and really need to stop.

FortySeven

Dubl07 wrote: »

Your poor brother. That's why dogs and children should be supervised, particularly dogs that have low tolerance for being mauled by children.

As for the rest, I've known many more GSDs who don't bite than that do, tbh. The biggest question I'd ask would be why breed from a nippy dog? Were there health checks done to see if pain was an issue? Pedigree GSDs spines and hips (show standard) make me wince. Aside from that, how the heck did two or more of his offspring gain access to a postman? Human management of breeding, training and control may have been part of the problem in your case. One small nip in the OP's instance does not equate to biting a family member's face, nor to 'savaging' a postman. A behaviourist will be able to assess matters much more clearly than a bunch of strangers on the internet.

He was bred before the bite. He was used to kids, he came into a house of five children as a pup. The postman came in the garden (rural, fenced house, closed gate) instead of using the post box. We also had Rottweilers, spaniels and Scottish terriers. We knew dogs.

In the UK if a dog bites it is destroyed by law. This dog pursued children and seems to have bitten one. Is it worth taking the risk that it could do it again? I love dogs and would not be quick to judge but this is not some redistributed fear or reaction to being mistreated or taunting. It isn't food related or because of pack problems. This was chase and attack possibly from excitement but very likely to be repeated imo.