Son of a Bun: FSAI closure

beer enigma

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Beef contamination with E coli O157 rarely results from human carriers spreading it to meat - it's generally due to faecal contamination at slaughter. O157 doesn't really make cattle ill, and they can carry it without symptoms. Mincing the meat makes the problem acute - the bacteria are now spread throughout the meat, rather than just being on the surface where they should be killed by brief cooking.

Cross contamination between raw and cooked meat is another big problem - I imagine inadequate separation of the two is the reason for the 'structural' work. Worst of all is keeping minced O157 contaminated meat at elevated temperatures for extended periods - although I'm not suggesting that was the case here.

My reading of the reports suggests that staff weren't found with O157 on their hands, rather 'normal' E coli instead, an indicator of faecal contamination - ie they had traces of poo on their hands.

So are they now saying that the restaurant statement was wrong


"
While no pathogens were found in the food chain at the restaurant, 4 staff have tested positive to carrying bacteria linked with Ecoli, while not being ill themselves or presenting with any symptoms. "

Elliott S

Andip wrote: »

So are they now saying that the restaurant statement was wrong.

Andip, that poster is just adding their knowledge on the issue of food safety to the discussion, giving some suggestions of what may have happened. They are not stating their musings as fact. The poster even backed up the part of the restaurant statement that you quoted:

Andip wrote: »

"While no pathogens were found in the food chain at the restaurant, 4 staff have tested positive to carrying bacteria linked with Ecoli, while not being ill themselves or presenting with any symptoms. "

Padraig Mor wrote: »

My reading of the reports suggests that staff weren't found with O157 on their hands, rather 'normal' E coli instead, an indicator of faecal contamination - ie they had traces of poo on their hands.

'Normal' E. coli is an indicator microorganism. And I'm not sure what the restaurant statement means by "linked with E. coli". It's either E. coli or it's not. And if it's not E. coli, what is it? The restaurant statement is unclear. Understandably, as they are aiming for damage limitation.

sporina

so is it business as usual i wonder?

Water John

Haven't heard any thing untoward, so I presume so. Had always meant to visit. Hope to soon.

livedadream

sporina wrote: »

so is it business as usual i wonder?

was there two saturdays ago, was busy, food was just as good...

wasnt as busy as it usual was but still busy.

Hogzy

I love how their special is "the well done" burger.

H8GHOTI

Friend was in there Sunday of bank holiday weekend, said it was very busy. Queue at the door & people waiting at bar for a table.

bladebrew

I was there last Sunday, it was fairly busy, we got a table straight away around 8 but it got busier as the night went on,

jc84

definitely not as busy as before the closure, been twice since and didn't have to wait for a table either time, never happened before! Burgers were nice but much preferred them rare, I asked for them to cook it like that but was told no way... glad they are doing well though

Judes

I'm sticking to Gourmet Burger around the corner - always great burgers, very friendly staff and more relaxed service. Call me an old fashioned girl - but I prefer my burgers cooked, conversation with my friends vs. roaring across a table.

Nonoperational

Judes wrote: »

I'm sticking to Gourmet Burger around the corner - always great burgers, very friendly staff and more relaxed service. Call me an old fashioned girl - but I prefer my burgers cooked, conversation with my friends vs. roaring across a table.

Agree 100%

DJ Hafez

Visited last week. Was very disappointed. Burgers are now overdone in my opinion. Not juicy at all. I understand they can't do them AS pink as before, but burning them to a crisp is not the solution either!

On the flip-side, I had an amazing burger in The Blackrock Inn during the week. Would highly recommend!

the beer revolu

DJ Hafez wrote: »

. I understand they can't do them AS pink as before, but burning them to a crisp is not the solution either!
!

This is the Irish way with burgers and pork.
This is why I rarely order burgers or pork (other than slow cooked) in Ireland.
You can be pretty much guaranteed that it will have the bejaysus cooked out of it!

On SOAB, passed it last night and it was hopping. People waiting for tables.

pwurple

DJ Hafez wrote: »

Visited last week. Was very disappointed. Burgers are now overdone in my opinion. Not juicy at all. I understand they can't do them AS pink as before, but burning them to a crisp is not the solution either!

On the flip-side, I had an amazing burger in The Blackrock Inn during the week. Would highly recommend!

Oooh interesting. Blackrock inn where? Is that mahon golf club?

hufpc8w3adnk65

pwurple wrote: »

Oooh interesting. Blackrock inn where? Is that mahon golf club?

Ya

Roesy

Was in the Woodford last week and had a lovely lunch. Husband was told when our order was being taken that they serve the burgers pink and was he okay with that. I would have thought given the drama with Son of a Bun that everywhere would be erring on the side of caution. He said it was delicious. My fish was fantastic too.

the beer revolu

Roesy wrote: »

Was in the Woodford last week and had a lovely lunch. Husband was told when our order was being taken that they serve the burgers pink and was he okay with that. I would have thought given the drama with Son of a Bun that everywhere would be erring on the side of caution.

To ensure that minced meat burgers are safe to eat, they should be cooked to a core temperature of 75°C (or an equivalent time temperature combination, e.g. 70°C for 2 minutes). In technical terms, this is the critical control point (CCP). To ensure that the cooking method achieves this temperature, there should be regular checks carried out on the core temperature of burgers using a probe thermometer as colour alone is not a reliable indicator.

The above is taken from the FSAI website. USA guidelines suggest 160f (about 71c).
There is no mention of pink or not, just that colour alone is not an indicator.
Now, I haven't done the test but I'd imagine that it is possible to cook to the required temperature and still have some pink in the centre of the burger.

The thing is that most Irish establishments and customers are a bit hysterical about these things and won't serve/eat a burger unless it is hard and dry in the middle.

j8wk2feszrnpao

the beer revolu wrote: »

The thing is that most Irish establishments and customers are a bit hysterical about these things and won't serve/eat a burger unless it is hard and dry in the middle.

Can it not just be termed 'preferably' than 'hysterical'?
I don't think I'll ever understanding the obsession some people have with how other people eat their own food.

the beer revolu

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Can it not just be termed 'preferably' than 'hysterical'?
I don't think I'll ever understanding the obsession some people have with how other people eat their own food.

I don't care how you want to eat your food.
What I do care about is the fact that I don't have the choice of getting a burger in most restaurants that is not completely overcooked.
I blame people's ignorance and hysteria for this.

You have the choice to have and extra well done burger. Why can't I have the choice of one cooked to 72 degrees c as per safety guidelines?

j8wk2feszrnpao

the beer revolu wrote: »

I don't care how you want to eat your food.
What I do care about is the fact that I don't have the choice of getting a burger in most restaurants that is not completely overcooked.
I blame people's ignorance and hysteria for this.

You have the choice to have and extra well done burger. Why can't I have the choice of one cooked to 72 degrees c as per safety guidelines?

I don't make the rules. You could bite straight into the cow if you so wish; it wouldn't bother me.

Why you feel the need to knock those who wish to have it well cooked, and suit their palette, is what I don't understand. It's their food, going into their mouths. If you don't care, why have a dig at them?

the beer revolu

June Thankful Rig wrote: »

I don't make the rules. You could bite straight into the cow if you so wish; it wouldn't bother me.

Why you feel the need to knock those who wish to have it well cooked, and suit their palette, is what I don't understand. It's their food, going into their mouths. If you don't care, why have a dig at them?

I'm really having a dig at establishments that refuse to serve burgers cooked nicely and safely because of overreaction to safety guidelines. Ie most food establishments in Ireland.

What also gets me is that a lot (maybe not you) of well done people insist that they "cant" eat rare meat whereas I'm just being fussy in my preference for rare.
I was once in a situation where one person wanted to dictate that the beef joint for everyone had to be cooked well done because they "couldn't" eat it rare. They didn't care about anyone else's preference.

j8wk2feszrnpao

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm really having a dig at establishments that refuse to serve burgers cooked nicely and safely because of overreaction to safety guidelines. Ie most food establishments in Ireland.

Does it have to be that they are over-reacting? I don't have any figures for it, but I'd imagine the vast majority of people don't wish to have their burgers non-pink/rare (only basing this on friends who like their steaks pink, but not their burgers), so they don't wish to go to the extra effort for the clients that do. Maybe they should provide that service, but it's their business; I don't think being safe for their own liability is over reacting.

the beer revolu wrote: »

What also gets me is that a lot (maybe not you) of well done people insist that they "cant" eat rare meat whereas I'm just being fussy in my preference for rare.

I would have thought it was the other way around in most cases. i.e. someone orders their meat well done, and the typically "you're ruining the meat" comment arises. Or as you said they are being a bit 'hysterical'. As if the food was going into their mouth rather than the person ordering it.

the beer revolu wrote: »

I was once in a situation where one person wanted to dictate that the beef joint for everyone had to be cooked well done because they "couldn't" eat it rare. They didn't care about anyone else's preference.

Only did a roast once. I cooked it well enough that that the meat towards the outside was well done for those who wanted that way, and just below that there was rare meat for the others.
In terms of a joint, not sure it's possible. But it's probably not the best option to suit everyone. Maybe the joint couldn't be cooked rare, served to the rest, and then a potion cooked longer for the one person who wanted it well done. Not ideal, but sometimes it's about compromise.

livedadream

the beer revolu wrote: »

everyone had to be cooked well done because they "couldn't" eat it rare. They didn't care about anyone else's preference.

and you did?

you seem to be suffering with exactly what you are complaining about, cook it my way or its wrong syndrome.

Markcheese

the beer revolu wrote:

What also gets me is that a lot (maybe not you) of well done people insist that they "cant" eat rare meat whereas I'm just being fussy in my preference for rare. I was once in a situation where one person wanted to dictate that the beef joint for everyone had to be cooked well done because they "couldn't" eat it rare. They didn't care about anyone else's preference.

Let them eat the outside bits and you have the bloody middle..
Although to be fair, the sight of well done meat wouldnt put me off my food, and I love properly well cooked meat as well as a good blue steak

the beer revolu

livedadream wrote: »

and you did?

you seem to be suffering with exactly what you are complaining about, cook it my way or its wrong syndrome.

Eh, no. There were 8 people there. One insisting that everyone should have it well done because he "couldn't" eat it rare.

It was actually a beef Wellington.
I know I said it was a joint. I was trying to keep my post short.

If I was in a situation where I was the only person who wanted something to share done in a certain way, of course I'd go with the flow.

livedadream

the beer revolu wrote: »

Eh, no. There were 8 people there. One insisting that everyone should have it well done because he "couldn't" eat it rare.

It was actually a beef Wellington.

well if he couldnt eat rare meat then why would it be such a massive deal to you.

you said

What also gets me is that a lot (maybe not you) of well done people insist that they "cant" eat rare meat whereas I'm just being fussy in my preference for rare.

isnt it the same, your friend wanting well done and you wanting rare...

if he cant eat rare meat why should he have to, if you can eat well done meat.

some people will literally make an issue of everything...

he cant eat it, you can, its not the end of the world to eat some well cooked meat so that everyone can enjoy the same meal.

the beer revolu

livedadream wrote: »

well if he couldnt eat rare meat then why would it be such a massive deal to you.

you said


isnt it the same, your friend wanting well done and you wanting rare...

if he cant eat rare meat why should he have to, if you can eat well done meat.

some people will literally make an issue of everything...

he cant eat it, you can, its not the end of the world to eat some well cooked meat so that everyone can enjoy the same meal.

"can't "
In inverted commas.
That was my whole point.
But I give up here.

livedadream

the beer revolu wrote: »

"can't "
In inverted commas.
That was my whole point.
But I give up here.

''just'' ''because'' ''you'' ''put'' ''it'' ''in'' ''inverted'' ''commas'' ''doesnt'' ''mean'' ''he'' ''can'' ''eat'' ''it''

you dont know this guy/gals dietary habits.

leahyl

Move on please. Stop the bickering.

Nonoperational

June Thankful Rig wrote: »

Can it not just be termed 'preferably' than 'hysterical'?
I don't think I'll ever understanding the obsession some people have with how other people eat their own food.

You'll learn quickly enough around here that some posters here get notions about food and restaurants and are completely unmovable. Personally eat my steak medium rare and my burgers well done. Burgers are made from a lower quality cut of meat, and for me the enjoyable part is the char on the meat and the quality of the sauce and accompaniments on the burger. Eating pink mince doesn't appeal to me, but I couldn't eat a steak that wasn't pink. People have preferences, and I can't see how it bothers other people.