Opinion on belt drive and internal gears.

yannakis

Thinking about getting a bike, for the odd commute and the casual weekend 30-40km stroll. As geeky as I am, some features get me really excited with anything I'm doing a marker research on.. This time it's the belt drive and the internal gears, so I found these 2 bikes below.

What do you think about belt drives and internal gears? :cool:

Ghost Square Urban 6
http://www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes-2016/bike-detail/5430/

Cube Travel Pro
http://www.cube.eu/en/products/trekking/travel/cube-travel-pro-grey-black-spicy-orange-2016/

bikedude

No opinion about the belt drive, never rode one, internal gears are great had one with 3 gears and was grand, never had any issues.

Canyon have some options as well.
https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/urban/commuter/

ford2600

bikedude wrote: »

No opinion about the belt drive, never rode one, internal gears are great had one with 3 gears and was grand, never had any issues.

Canyon have some options as well.
https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/urban/commuter/

Perfect bike for a commuter; hub gears, dynamo lights and mudguards.

The 4.0 for 999 at 11kgs odd would be great value.

Nexus 8 speed reviewed here.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/hubs/product/review-shimano-nexus-inter-8-geared-hub-33958/

Belt means quite and no maintenance.

bikedude

Few of the commuter bikes listed on their sale as well the 4.0 will be available on sale in 14 days.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/specials/breakaway/sale/road.html

yannakis

Canyon Commuter 4 would sit at the top of the list if I was to buy it myself

Unfortunately though, since they are only available online, bike to work scheme through my employer doesn't support it.

saccades

I have an alfine hub on my winter mtb and another on my previous commuter bike (~20K).

I'm not sure belt drives are all that great from what I have read - you need a split in the chainstay (less stiff, something else to go wrong) to fit, stones and the like knacker them/cog teeth up and the snubber/gates "lumps" is a bit "heath robinson". Might work a lot better on a road/hybrid bike from a manufacturer - there was a big thread on STW forum where a guy went mad into them, ran into loads of niggly problems and eventualy gave up.

The only discernable benefit is that they are lighter than a chain, both my bikes with regular single speed chains are silent even when jumping.


The alfine (last time I checked) is equivilent to the red band nexus, but are disc compatible too. I had/have a SG500 and a SG5001 (both the 8 speed bombproof version as opposed to the oil filled 11 speed which is a little more delicate).

Pros:

Can shift without pedaling, which is handy on a mtb on a tech up/down route, less handy on the road.
indestructable - I worked out a conservative 23k km commuting on mine and all I changed was tyres, bar grips and brake pads. Mtb is 7 (8?) years old in november and I've just replaced the drivechain, the hub is perfect but the cup and cones are pitted from a jet wash in 2010 and the cable is sticky.. pretty good considering I ignore it as much as possible.
Silent running, nice in a morning listening to the birds.
Throwing the bottom of the river liffey at it doesn't reduce the efficiecy of the drivechain.
Chains are dirt cheap SS versions and last forever.


Cons:

Heavy compared to 3x, very heavy compared to 1x and all the weight is way out the back, so not great for jumping on an mtb and not great for steep hill climbs on a road bike.
Gears have kinda large and irregular steps between them, so instead of flicking effeciently between gears you tend to sit in one and grind a bit (5th is direct drive and the most efficient).
There is a bit more drag than a well set up derailurer - however the amount of drag never changes and even a stiff link can be ignored (just pull it through).
Gear ranges are a tad narrow - setup for general road speeds (~28kmph) my knees would pop going up shay elliot/sleive maan (could grind up the wicklow gap though).
Until you are used to it removing the wheel is more fiddlely (newer hubs have a tab instead of requiring a 2mm allen key).
Cable routing can be a pain, loads of different washer to master (but should be ok on a manufacturers bike).
Due to the weight and the not quite immeadiate pick up the bike does feel a bit "dead".
Need a spanner to remove the axle nuts (I drilled 2 holes to fit one to a set of bottle bolts).

Rear nuts are softer than the axle so strip every coupla years or so (I used to stick the kiddie trailer on the back a lot) so remember that they are bmx nuts as they are an odd thread/pitch (5/8th?) and the shimano kit is expensive and includes stuff you'll never need (all the washer options).

11 speed alfine is a bit more refined (but more delicate) the 14 speed rolhoff is awesome but shifts like a bag of bolts, needs a lot complicated (compared to the alfine) bits to get it to fit/work and costs a shed load.

I like IGH's but their limitations wrt to "snappiness" and weight mean you need to weigh up their go anywhere/do anything nature and the type of cycling you do.

I'll keep the alfine mtb hardtail for winter, when I can't be bothered to clean the bike after a 3 hour cold spin but use the FS in summer as it's faster and more nimble and more fun (33lb vs 28lb).

I got rid of the commuter IGH as I wanted to go faster for longer and I wanted to do more sportives with big/steep climbs and got bored of changing front/rear rings to get the gear range aroundabout where I wanted it (but still not wide enough).

tomasrojo

I have experience of hub gears (two of my three bikes have them) and despite them being a potential pain when you get a puncture, I like them a lot.

I know nothing about belt drives.

C3PO

I wish I hadn't opened this thread ... love the Canyon Commuters!

machiavellianme

I have both internal hub and belt drive on my Cube Hyde race.
It's fast, silent and issue free. I mostly use it for my commute and can even wear my suit without worrying about the trouser leg being gnawed by an oily chain. Don't think I'll ever go back to a chain and I love the ease of gear change with the internal hub. 8 gears is plenty (though I mainly only use 4).
Go for it. You won't regret it.

Lumen

Your 30-40km weekend stroll would be a lot more fun on a derailleur geared bike.

Short flattish cycles would suit a single speed.

IGHs make most sense for hilly short journeys with indestructible tyres e.g Tannus or Marathon. I've had to change an Alpine 11sp rear tyre in mid winter in the dark and rain in a scummy part of town and I never want to do it again.

tomasrojo

Three-speed hub gears are easy enough to deal with (as in, the wheel is easy enough to get on and off, though it's best to have a small bag with you to put the bits in).

I am dreading get a puncture on the bakfiets, with the seven-speed Nexus hub. The tube will definitely have to be patched in situ. It does have Marathon tyres, so hopefully it'll be seldom.

tomasrojo

On the subject of belt drives, it does occur to me that if you are getting hub gears, you might as well put a chain case on the bike, and then you have all the advantages of a chain (efficient, cheap, reliable, can be replaced at home with one inexpensive tool) and most of the advantages of a belt (clean, low maintenance).

The quiet nature of a belt wouldn't be paramount for me. I don't find chains noisy. Are they? Is this one of those phenomena where you don't notice the noise until it's gone?

machiavellianme

tomasrojo wrote: »

On the subject of belt drives, it does occur to me that if you are getting hub gears, you might as well put a chain case on the bike, and then you have all the advantages of a chain (efficient, cheap, reliable, can be replaced at home with one inexpensive tool) and most of the advantages of a belt (clean, low maintenance).

The quiet nature of a belt wouldn't be paramount for me. I don't find chains noisy. Are they? Is this one of those phenomena where you don't notice the noise until it's gone?

Possibly. I was going through 2 chains a year on my old commuter (teething problems on hills) but I'm still on my first belt after 9 months and there's very little wear on it (only a small amount of fraying on one side of the grooves). I'm actually thinking of reversing the belt to wear it out more evenly.

tomasrojo

But did you have the chain totally enclosed? They appear to last several times longer when in a chain case, rather than exposed to wheel spray and rain.

Roadtoad

CoMing to IKEA soon, perhaps:
http://www.core77.com/posts/51805/Ikea-to-Begin-Selling-a-Chain-less-Bicycle

machiavellianme

tomasrojo wrote: »

But did you have the chain totally enclosed? They appear to last several times longer when in a chain case, rather than exposed to wheel spray and rain.

Nope. But I don't have the belt enclosed either. Comparing apples with apples .

tomasrojo

machiavellianme wrote: »

Nope. But I don't have the belt enclosed either. Comparing apples with apples .

Well, the point I'm making is that if you're going for a hub-geared bike, you have the option of putting a case around the chain, which isn't an option on a derailleur-gear bike. If you put a case on the chain, you have a set-up that has is low-maintenance and clean, and isn't a massive pain when you need to change the transmission.

So, I'd argue (in the absence of any knowledge of belt drives on my part) that you might as well just have a hub-geared bike with a chain case. I don't really see the advantages of a belt drive over that arrangement. Weight, maybe?

saccades

I'm not sure how anyone went through 2 chains in 9 months on a Hub geared bike unless they had the chainline set up poorly and didn't put a proper (stupidly cheap) single speed chain on. There is no movement for the chain to make so all the power goes through the strongest part of the chain.

Nexus sprockets are flanged so you can reverse them to adjust chainline.

The alfine crankset has a large "Lip" so that the chain doesn't get to meet your trousers, jeans to the pub were fine but I didn't wear suit trousers on the bike, maybe they flap around more.

I like the idea of the lifetime of a belt (think of the timing belt on a car - serious stress and lasts for 40K miles or whatever), but whilst the belt is light the gubbins required to make it work on a bike aren't and it's almost an answer looking for a problem.

tomasrojo

Yeah, I'm not going to dismiss something I haven't tried and that knowledgeable people rate, but I don't quite see how, on balance, all things considered, a belt is better than a chain with a case. You can replace the chain yourself with a screw driver and a chain tool (cost for chain and tools: ~€20?), and it'll last for an awful long time and won't get oil all over everything, or require more than occasional oiling.

As I said, weight is all I can think of.

triggermortis

I like the look of the Canyon commuter bikes. I'll be moving back to Dublin full time soon and intend to commute by bike to my new job. I already have a good bike (Rose) and a Cube I currently use to commute and another bike in bits that is a project, however I might be in the market for a dedicated commuter and these look good. I'll have to check out the BTW in my new job (when I start) and take it from there